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12:00 PM
@megabyte1024 "compiles it without problems" != "actually valid". Even more so when MS compilers are the topic of discussion... — twalberg Jun 12 '13 at 18:33
Truth
 
@fredoverflow you are bad and you should feel bad.
 
I wonder why @fredoverflow changed his screen name
 
> The Francesinha Menace

Turmoil has engulfed the Kitchen Republic. The taxation of food routes to outlying star tables is in dispute.
Hoping to resolve the matter with a blockade of deadly battlefruits, the healthy Plant Federation has stopped all shipping to the small plate of Naboo.
While the Congress of the Republic endlessly debates this alarming chain of events, the Supreme Chancellor has secretly dispatched two Cheddar Knights, the guardians of peace and justice in the kitchen, to settle the conflict....
 
if I want my object/class to be 'nice and easy' to use for the likes of std::cout << myFoo; how best handle that? my badlet java side says write a toString() function :\
 
I need puns for "Naboo" and "peace and justice".
Ideally related to meat and unhealthy but tasty food.
 
12:10 PM
@BartekBanachewicz o_0
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's Naboo to ask for puns of such nature
 
anyway hmm
 
(Also, gosh, the introduction for Episode I is soooooooooooo bad)
 
now that I have backends working
I should clean up that thing
 
@thecoshman I write operator<< overloads.
 
@thecoshman if you want to use <<, overload <<
 
12:14 PM
2
Q: Is using "this" in contructor's initialization list specificly dangerous with Qt?

LalaBoxI need relieable information about "this" subject: class MayClass, public QWidget { public: MayClass( QWidget * parent = NULL ) :QWidget( parent ), mpAnotherWidget( new QWidget( this ) ){}; private: QWidget * mpAnotherWidget; }; Of course, calling virtual functions in...

> relieable
That's particularly important
 
user1804599
lol
 
user1804599
my colleague's computer is so broken
 
> undefiend behavior
lol
 
user1804599
grep always prints line numbers and there's no way to turn it off
 
@райтфолд What did you do to it?
 
user1804599
12:15 PM
it even prints them when not output to a terminal
 
-2
Q: Let's help the new users out!

chmod 711 telkittyAs I woke up on the April 1st 2015, a brilliant idea hit me: wouldn't it be wonderful to allow the new users to show their humbleness & eagerness to improve by allowing them to carry certain tag, so they would not be ripped them into pieces when they inadvertently ask some dumb questions when the...

I am doing my yearly question dumping here ...
 
@LucDanton renderers :: [Shape -> IO ()] that's cheating. :D
 
@Griwes yeah his solution doesn't really do what's necessary. I did that for single functions a while ago and posted that to Code Review.
 
@chmod711telkitty lol, my 'Close-Reason Fruit-Machine' idea wasn't well-received either:(
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, I am aware of that.
 
12:18 PM
anyway I've pushed my working code using your solution, to a branch so far :)
 
How/Why the hell does coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/a1c8c19cec0e7ab8 work? (From post sehe linked).
 
I'm going to merge changes for OpenGL 3.3 into that and then this back into master
 
Thanks. Was worried for a second.
 
@Griwes why?
doesn't it construct from void*?
 
oh wait
 
12:19 PM
oh ok, so I take and return a given stream and inside my operator<< I just do things like stream << "(" << memberA << ", " << memberB << ")";
 
I misread it
 
@Griwes Is it?
 
@Blob It works because... well, why wouldn't it?
 
12:20 PM
Oh
 
@thecoshman that's like C++ 101
 
@MartinJames where?
 
a.k.a. typeclasses in C++ via ad-hoc polymorphism
 
@thecoshman Yeah. std::ostream (aka std::basic_ostream<char>) only though.
 
@BartekBanachewicz never really dealt with streams stuff much, and not really done much C++ in a long time.
 
12:21 PM
@chmod711telkitty Was on meta - prolly deleted by now:(
 
@LucDanton Yes. Doing that for a larger amount of functions forces you to basically reimplement vtables in a silly way over and over again.
 
@MartinJames some people took my question too seriously
I have already hinted April fool 1st
 
@Griwes There has to be some code somewhere.
You did the same thing but guarded by a data constructor. Does your criticism apply to the code you linked?
It’s really the same thing but minus RendererI.
 
My code does it more automagically. :D
 
12:23 PM
@Griwes No. You still wrote foo and bar.
 
what we chatting about
 
@LucDanton Now add two additional functions to Renderer.
@LucDanton You are implementing vtables; I am implementing type erasure. It's the same thing, just on different levels of abstraction.
 
Functions are perfect for type hiding :v
@Griwes That’s the important bit.
 
so what you're saying is that in the Master Language™, Haskell, you've got to go all C-style and manually implement vtables?
 
@Puppy No.
No to either 'master language' and 'vtable'.
 
user1804599
12:27 PM
Do we really need #AprilFools Day to be fooled? #FekuDay #AAPrilFoolsDay http://t.co/ecEyfJp9O0
 
@Puppy No, you've got to do the thing Sean Parent described in Inheritance Is The Base Class of Evil.
 
65
Q: When something that was supposed to be fun became not fun

Simon André ForsbergStackEgg! What a great invention. Probably the best thing to hit Stack Exchange since the invention of unicoins! Very entertaining game, very fun to play. Many users have probably spent several hours playing this. And April Fool's day is not over yet. However, where there is great inventions t...

lol
 
> Implementing non-intrusive runtime polymorphic objects with value-semantics, and multiple-undo in 20 minutes.
 
A.k.a. the same thing you have to do in C++ to have "polymorphic values".
 
12:28 PM
@Puppy remember that all data types in Haskell are implicitely tagged unions, you can use that information for dispatch and that's basically (I think) what @Griwes solution is using
it's a really clever solution that I was trying to find all this time and just couldn't come up with
not a hack or anything.
I need to write a blog post describing that
 
@Griwes that value_ptr thing?
 
WTF is a value_ptr
 
it's a polymorphic value.
 
3 mins ago, by Griwes
@Puppy No, you've got to do the thing Sean Parent described in Inheritance Is The Base Class of Evil.
 
watching this right now
 
12:31 PM
I have never witnessed this talk/lecture/video
 
It's also probably the exact same thing Boost.TypeErasure does.
 
@Puppy std::function-style type-erasure (that is, implementing an std::function-style type erasure holder).
 
Although I did not dare to look into its sources, lol.
 
@Griwes It's not the exact same thing, but the principle is similar
 
@AndyProwl Hence "probably".
 
12:32 PM
The fuck.
 
Boost.TE requires less boilerplate but good luck deciphering error messages
 
I have no idea how TypeErasure looks inside.
 
I can't even disable this warning at all "warning sites".
 
@AndyProwl :D
 
mmm interesting
 
12:32 PM
lol, cppreference.com reference @sbi's answer about operator overloading :P
 
it all makes more sense now
 
C++ needs language support for type erasure
 
user1804599
Fuck inheritance.
 
FFS
It's all broken.
 
@AndyProwl why, isn't value_ptr implementation possible?
 
12:33 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I don't know what value_ptr is
 
My vaporware language will allow you to use type classes as both "predicates" on types and as polymorphic values akin to Boost.TypeErasure.
 
@AndyProwl It's just a unique_ptr that copies.
 
value_ptr is basically std::function, but generic on any interface.
the only problem with value_ptr is when you come to interfaces that have operators, which can make life problematic since the value_ptr itself would need to offer those operators.
 
Which is basically what I did there in Haskell really.
 
@Griwes Just to make sure, have you succumbed to the illusion that type classes are somehow a counterpart to classes in the OOP sense?
 
user1804599
12:33 PM
@AndyProwl D d; B& b = d;.
 
Forgive my asking.
 
@Griwes why don't you just code in Haskell instead of your vaporlang :)
 
@LucDanton Type classes describe an interface.
 
@райтфолд That's reference-semantics only, and it's intrusive
 
@BartekBanachewicz Because my vaporlang will have first-class everything.
 
12:34 PM
@Griwes Well, that’s vague enough and not really an answer to my question. Unless you meant an OOP-style interface?
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl Also, non-polymorphic classes are erased.
 
user1804599
No way to get any type information back at runtime.
 
I'll just disable the warning globally :(
 
@Griwes that means a huge language core and lenthgy and possibly difficult implementation.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Er.
 
user1804599
12:36 PM
Perl 6 has first-class a lot.
 
like haskell, no?
 
@BartekBanachewicz It just means it won't exist.
Not "possibly difficult" but "impossible".
 
hence vaporlang? :P
 
@LucDanton Well, there are similarities. But it doesn't really matter - having automatically generated Boost.TypeErasure-sque thingies is convenient, is the point here. :P
@BartekBanachewicz Nah. :P
 
12:37 PM
(in case anyone's interested in this language support for type erasure thing, I wrote up a document some time ago) /cc @Griwes
 
If I hit a wall, I'll move some steps back and rethink stuff.
 
It never evolved into a proposal but I'm still hoping to get back to it
 
@Griwes This was still on the lines of the RendererI boxing.
 
@AndyProwl there's your full nam ethere
 
I disagree that it’s similar. If it is, only in a superficial sense that can blindside you.
 
12:38 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, that's because it was meant to become a proposal. I don't mind
 
@BartekBanachewicz Prolly, yeah.
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl cool GH renders PDFs
 
@Griwes yeah the talk mentions PIMPL specifically vOv
funny how all the things I've been doing lately are related
 
@райтфолд Not cool at all, since it proli sucks
 
lol
 
user1804599
12:39 PM
Speaking of language design.
 
Make that certainly: no text selection.
 
user1804599
I must document control structures.
 
Really, fuck all those shitty embedded PDF renderers.
Browsers, I'm looking at you.
 
Yeah probably better to just click "Raw" and download it
 
lol my colleagues just reserved screen stands
I suggested they don't unpack them and just put their screens on the boxes :D
 
12:41 PM
@AndyProwl I remember reading that - and I remember not liking the part where you couldn't get a real, type-erased value.
 
Should I make a little troll post on SO?
 
@Columbo no
 
It also renders the text like crap.
 
@Columbo How would that be any different to any other post that you make?
 
another Spotify update, another inferior product
 
12:43 PM
@Griwes I'm not sure what you're referring to. I thought that was supported
I mean, meant to be supported
Unless you're thinking of something different from what I'm thinking
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, the primary thing is to have first class types, functions and typeclasses. Not sure what else could be first-class, and not sure if any of those would actually be too hard to implement.
@AndyProwl auto r = Rectangle{ ... }; Shape s = r;
 
@Griwes That's supported
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, It would be serious to some extent, just not entirely
 
Supporting value semantics is one of the goals
 
What’s sizeof s?
 
12:45 PM
@Puppy I would expect it to be put on hold at some point
 
@AndyProwl Alright. You might want to add that to the examples section.
 
@Griwes I think the primary thing is language desing is more to figure what you don't want to have. Design around a set of orthogonal features, don't cram anything that comes by and make it "first class".
 
@LightningRacisinObrit what
 
oh, never mind
 
12:45 PM
87
 
I got it
and yay my nick propagated!
 
@LightningRacisinObrit Don't think of numbers.
 
@Griwes the talk is really sooooo similar to existentials
 
@LightningRacisinObrit FORGET THAT
how much did he pay for parking?
 
too bad in C++ you need to care about all those value semantics and whatnot
 
12:46 PM
that's the question
 
makes everything more complicated in my opinion
 
I bet children don't ask those questions
 
@BartekBanachewicz No.
 
@Griwes I think there is such an example, although probably not in Section 4. Section 3.2. ("Support for value semantics and reference semantics") states that as a design goal
 
still, his example is really cool
 
12:48 PM
@BartekBanachewicz It's ㄥ8.
 
@LightningRacisinObrit oh god that artifacting makes me vomit
 
It's just a dirty parking lot.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes pff I can also look for upside-down converters
it's not an upside-down 7
 
looks like a japanese character to me
it probably means "notice me senpai"
 
can templates be used to have like an N dimension (math) vector?
 
user1804599
12:50 PM
notice me sekai
 
@thecoshman yes...
 
like... a variadic template class which stores a number of members based on the number of arguments you pass into the constructor...
 
You mean like a vector?
Or a tuple?
 
@thecoshman what do you want to do?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think tuple is what I want
 
12:51 PM
@thecoshman make_tuple
 
@thecoshman My hint is to pay attention to std::make_tuple, std::forward_as_tuple and std::tie then.
 
@LucDanton Assuming it makes sense to apply sizeof to Shape (not sure), it's the size of the compiler-generated object (most likely two pointers IIRC).
 
@BartekBanachewicz mostly just thinking about things, but also think it would be nice to have a noise function that allows you to pass in any number of dimensions (though I realise that would also require the maths to work it out for N dimensions)
 
> I realise that would also require the maths to work it out for N dimensions
that's the hard part
 
@BartekBanachewicz indeed :D
 
12:53 PM
why do you need more than 3d noise anyway
 
@FélixCantournet Nothing is crammed in there. First class functions are essential. First class types are essential to (convenient) metaprogramming. And while I don't yet know how to actually use first-class typeclasses, I'm sure it'll come once I have them (you can't explore how to use X when you don't have X).
 
lol april fools on /r/askhistorians reddit.com/r/askhistorians
 
user1804599
Fascinating.
 
> Why did so many survivors of the Wounded Knee Massacre become guards in Skyrim?
 
12:53 PM
rut roh, someone trying to get a 64-bit build of my code has run into unsigned int/size_t discrepancies (allegedly)
 
> How did the Eagles manage to rescue Frodo and Sam at Mt Doom and still have time to record "Hotel California"?
this one is the best
> Is there a historical consensus as to why Gandhi was so obsessed with nuclear warheads?
 
@LightningRacisinObrit hihi usuck
 
@BartekBanachewicz vOv say... I want to assign a point in 3d space a random colour, based on time and some other property that the user can control, hence I'd want 5d noise
@BartekBanachewicz crap damn it google, why didn't you show me that!
 
@Griwes What about first-class INTERCAL support?
 
@BartekBanachewicz :(
 
12:54 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes google.pl/…
 
@Griwes It's an interesting talk but nothing I didn't already know.
 
@Puppy that's how we got polymorphism to work in Haskell vOv
 
> If Franz Ferdinand assassination was the inciting cause for WWI, how are they still able to go on tour?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz I guess limiting it to C++ was a mistake :P
 
12:55 PM
> [Urgent Essay Help]How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
hahah
 
lol
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, Wide doesn't use const principally because everything is already immutable by interface, give or take.
the only place where I used const was my AST where I couldn't be arsed to write an immutable interface for every AST node so I just consted them.
 
I don't think wide's lazy-by-default though
 
nah
but neither is the structure Sean Parent described.
 
btw @Puppy why is Wide better than Rust?
 
1:03 PM
well, they're not really comparable since I haven't exactly had the same amount of development time to address some of the same issues
it's hard to be better than someone at a thing when you haven't even attempted the thing yet
also I'm honestly not a fan of some of the directions they've gone in, like immutability for local variables by default
 
is there any area where wide is currently better than rust?
regardless of time put for now.
 
obvious one- legacy compatibility
 
user1804599
Rust has no exceptions :F
 
oh yeah.
exceptions.
that's an easy win then
 
1:07 PM
lol
 
hm
I guess the main thing that's actually really struck me looking at the Rust website is that their API docs don't seem to mention an API for their Rust implementation.
 
user1804599
librustc
 
It’s a website for the language, not the compiler.
 
To sum up
 
not really a great deal of difference IYAM.
 
1:09 PM
Wide's better than Rust because:
* it has legacy compatibility with C++
* it has exceptions
* its website mentions compiler API
Rust is better than Wide because
* everything else
 
I'm new to this chat, can we ask simple questions here?

I'm attempting to create my DirectX device on a Windows Server 2008 R2 via Remote Desktop, however it only started working once I installed the DirectX SDK. Is this a requirement for Windows Server 2008 R2 to have DirectX SDK installed for Direct3D to work over RDP?
 
@Puppy What’s next, the finer points of compiled language vs interpreted languages?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, I said at the beginning that your comparison doesn't make sense.
 
@Puppy I know.
 
then why are you persisting in making it?
 
1:10 PM
no idea. hence I'm done.
 
@LucDanton If you have a proper implementation, then what's the difference?
 
user1804599
Neither are Mill so they are both bad. :P
 
1:17 PM
speaking of theguardian.com/media/2015/apr/01/… (yes it's past Noon)
 
@LightningRacisinObrit 25g acceleration is deadly both ways.
 
user1804599
cooooool
 
user1804599
in Perl 6 you can override object identity.
 
Aparrently not:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stapp
 
@MartinJames Well, pick whatever threshold you want.
The direction of time doesn't affect the magnitude of the force exerted in classical physics.
 
1:23 PM
@sehe, you may use Boost Spirit, Boost Regex, or Handwritten parser. — Barmak Shemirani 52 secs ago
lolwut. I'll take that as a compliment for my answer. Which list those :^
 
Stopping from <high speed> in only <short time> involves the same forces as accelerating to <high speed> in only <short time>.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes THat I can agree with.
 
@LightningRacisinObrit Meh, sustained accelerations can also kill
 
Mmmm. I wonder was it too much to refer to this as "black magic" negative lookbehind assertion?
boost::regex("(?<!\\\\)\\s")
 
black magic or not, it's unreadable
 
1:28 PM
It looks pretty devious. And I'm not even talking about the "regex" part.
inb4 it becomes marginally better with raw literals
 
My understanding stops at the first "
 
IME all the clarity won is lost due to having to explain how raw literals work in C++11. And good luck when your intellisense provider throws a cute panic about them
@MomotapaLimpopo Yeah. I advised against the regex approach even though it's the shortest of the three approaches
 
user1804599
@sehe raw string literal or GTFO
 
user1804599
Also, the regex is perfectly fine.
 
user1804599
1:31 PM
It clearly matches any space that doesn't follow a backslash.
 
@sehe Either you explain raw literals or you explain double escapes vOv
@MomotapaLimpopo That's what "Suddenly becoming stationary" is.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ?
 
becoming stationary == becoming moving
 
it's just a frame of reference :P
 
1:36 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, prolonged acceleration (like Felix Baumgartner during his free fall)
 
if your reference point is moving with a speed relative to you, catching up with it is deccelerating from its point of view
 
@BartekBanachewicz Bartek mode activate
:22435601 Thanks, wasn't sure of the name
 
@BartekBanachewicz not if you have a common frame of reference that you see both you and the target are moving relative to
 
@thecoshman that doesn't change the observation from your target's perspective
 
@MomotapaLimpopo it's the jerk that kills :P
 
1:40 PM
@thecoshman /cc @LightningRacisinObrit
 
@thecoshman Depends on your mode of death.
 
if (magnitude acceleration / duration of acceleration > some magic value) { chances of death = high }
 
How do you know the relation is of direct proportionality?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes o_0 please tell me that is not being disagreed with (well, magnitude of force)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes He doesn't, but this thread is already getting messy:)
 
1:42 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's ruftimate :P
that and lots of sad kitties who can no longer be with us :(
 
@thecoshman It actually depends on things like whether it is towards the feet or the head.
The head is a lot less tolerant.
 
The thread is messier than the result of driving into a tree at 100mph.
 
Being swung around with your head facing outwards is deadlier than with the feet facing outwards.
 
> The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle
lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes orientation effects the magic value, but the general relation still holds.
@MartinJames depends how fast that tree is also moving :P
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd take either one if it was for a short enough time :P
 
1:47 PM
@CatPlusPlus Human progress is fundamentally based on waste and inefficiencies
 
It is not a good idea to drink tequilla and rum on Tuesday
 
@CatPlusPlus (it's Wednesday)
 
@thecoshman I think that's the point.
 
@MomotapaLimpopo Speed != acceleration. Plus going from relative motion to station-keeping is acceleration!
 
my gf likes to quite me once saying "It's nice to have tequila in stock"
 
1:48 PM
@LightningRacisinObrit That is correct
 
Quite
 
@CatPlusPlus Mebbe Cosh was on tequila too?
 
I wonder how @thecoshman and his girlfriend communicate
(lord knows it is not by using text)
 
@MartinJames I do need to buy some rum
I was tempted to get a L bottle at airport, but lugging that weight home would only save me a small bit, so fook it
 
ffs a C library we're using encodes a 32-bit integer in a void* for passing to a "generic" callback. not helpful when CHAR_BIT == 8 && sizeof(void*) != 4
 
1:54 PM
Ugh security site posting a ~~~clever prima aprilis joke~~~
I think it might be time to unsubscribe
 
cat you are like the antithesis to fun
 
No, today is
 
I would consider that a compliment
 
@MartinJames lol
 

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