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9:01 PM
I was thinking that you could have unsafe<char> and safe<char> which are convertible to each other.
Or something like that.
unsafe<string> would be better probably.
Or like how recursive mutexes work perfectly fine under C++ while being a nightmare in C.
The complex logic is delegated to the type system and deterministic destruction model.
Well, mutexes still suck of course.
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah. I'd make (much) more expressive names though
@StackedCrooked Oh. I was completely convinced you meant string there (which is why I suggested better naming!). Because, you know, an escaped character makes zero sense
 
Yeah I realized that.
octets are not inherently harmful.
lol
 
That's like the musician's joke: "semi-quavers are the simples. You try playing sixtheens!" - "oh that's nothing, I can play 32nds in triplets without skipping a beat. I bet you can play 64ths?" - "Oh sure. Here: <plong>. That's one!"
 
Finally, I am home. And it's Friday too :)
 
@StackedCrooked So my take on it would be more like string<escaped>; of course you get into DSP model pretty quickly: processed_string<url_encoding> or processed_string<xml_pcdata>;
 
9:09 PM
After getting chided about it yesterday, TheVoip and ThePacketServer are no longer global singletons, and the code is better for it.
 
basic_string<escaped, char_traits<escaped>, ..> forgot the list.
 
@StackedCrooked yeah. that's Robots vanilla/flavoured string idea
Of course that's too hacky for real library design (I believe he used it for unit tests?)
 
or just volatile string :P
 
?!
 
Oh, wait, that can be assigned to a normal string.
 
9:11 PM
Anyways, seems like we need encodings as separate of the containers
 
@EtiennedeMartel yay, go him!
 
Escaping being /just another/ encoding
 
string is just an array now
 
@sehe poductify!
 
"How do I hammer in this nail with a screwdriver? I know it's the wrong tool, but I hate hammers and lover screwdrivers." If you need to do this then you need to use a different language. If that is not obvious to you then I'm afraid you will likely mess up the implementation anyway. — Ed S. 1 hour ago
^^ ahaha
 
9:14 PM
@Mysticial too late to edit the typo :)
 
@sehe I first thought you were talking about Sean Parent.
 
Some people, eh.
 
@StackedCrooked Certainly not. Lemme find it...
 
I know what you are talking about.
But that guy was being sarcastic.
 
^ not sarcastic!
 
9:18 PM
Oh!
 
Already 8 hours ago. Time flies
 
But now everything is clear :)
 
@StackedCrooked That's a lot older already. But it's related :)
 
> In my 21 year career
^ THAT DOESN'T MEAN SHIT
 
9:20 PM
21 identical years of experience
 
that means dated exp
what was hot 21 years ago?
 
If you only have one object to keep track of the sure it's simple.
 
Actually, I would interview him. He's quite eloquent. I think I'd turn out to agree with him on most things. Just, the "retarded" things, and arguing-by-offensive-imagery is ... a bad habit
 
I'll have 21 years of inexperience in the future.
 
9:21 PM
The problem is the "When you're done with it, free it."
 
That is 1994? No idea what was popular back then.
 
It gets hard when your flow is not obvious.
Like with exceptions for instance.
 
@StackedCrooked c++2u :p
 
@EtiennedeMartel And frankly, that's often almost a code smell :) That's the part where I'd nearly grant the point.
Memory management isn't hard.
 
I would say texture/model cache is a complicated problem, since it is hard to load from disk, and you might want it cached as long as possible, even that you are not using it.
 
9:22 PM
Program flow can be complex. And managing good overview of that is hard.
 
@Nican Didn't China first get internet access then?
 
I learned this lesson the most vivid by hacking on the ZFS code for zfs-fuse
 
@sehe That sounds like fun.
 
Hello guys
I have finished polishing 0.0 - 0.6: compactcpp.wordpress.com
 
@Cinch Neat :)
 
9:24 PM
@Nican C code. Heavily multithreaded. Combines all layers (raw device access, volume management, block, filesystem level). Everything is a versioned merkle tree (aka log structured). And there's mutexes at all levels.
It's the hardz
@Nican I ended up never touching that code because I realized I lacked that "overview" that is required to keep it correct.
I shy-ed away (and out) when the LLNL stepped up to do the kernel port
But I learned none-the-less
 
I would love some feedback:
I plan to do section 0.7 soon.
 
Exmoor Gold and Vice-Bishops. That's tonight sorted.
 
I wonder who doesn't have him plonked yet.
 
@sehe Who?
 
Who is a great band.
 
9:28 PM
Thou plonketh moi?
 
Never
 
@StackedCrooked C++2AlphaRed
 
@MartinJames lol, that french
 
@sehe Would you recommend building the parser for a programming language with Boost::Spirit?
 
Sorry completely misread that.
No. I'm on record in various places that this might not be the best idea
Of course, if you're fine with some limitations (and the compile times) then, Spirit is fine. Spirit is sweet for rapid prototyping.
 
9:30 PM
@sehe You mean it's a crap idea.
 
what else would you use?
 
And often, the prototype parser will serve just fine for all the production years. However, for a serious language parser, I'd "graduate" it as soon as the grammar is stable
@MartinJames Depends. ^
@Cinch ANTLR, Flexx/Bison. Coco/R C++ is friendly (albeit perhaps a bit messy in the compilation model; but it's easy to get down to the metal)
 
@sehe Which parser library would you recommend? I would love to use a C++ library.
 
@sehe Ah interesting
But how does the C compiler use C++ then?
It appears that Python uses ANTLR?
and Objective-C?
 
@andrew Like I said, I'd use Spirit in a heartbeat. Mostly because I have most of the knacks and I know I hardly ever produce a parser worth hand tuning and fiddling with for too long.
 
9:33 PM
Just chatted to the band. They allseem to be sober. Weird.
 
C++ parsing requires multiple passes. Maybe you could implement each pass with spirit. And if that doesn't work add even more passes..?
 
@MartinJames Maybe they actually like music
> for a programming language
 
@StackedCrooked how many?
I would think it would take maybe 4, preprocessor, compiler, linker, assembler, etc......BUT THEY'RE NOT PARSING
 
I think you need at least four passes. (I heard in a Alexandrescu/Bright conversation.)
 
oh wait that's not parcing
 
9:39 PM
@Cinch I think you realized that this is not working: i.imgur.com/TndGnbv.png - I can tell because you started using colors. (That's a good idea, actually). But it doesn't cure "large, boring wall of text with no meaningful contexts"
 
@sehe Yeah I was thinking of doing a table format or something.
I think I'll just cut out the bounds
 
That's what you see everywhere else. So. Link it. Be done.
> This site prizes conciseness
 
@sehe Good idea
 
Remember, the hardest part is (a) making it shorter and (a) killing your darlings
 
@sehe lol
 
9:41 PM
@sehe It should prize brevity.
 
On the whole it looks very neat and nice-paced. I think I'd use less space in the "state boxes", but then again, I'm no beginner so I can't "feel" the pace as a beginner
@JerryCoffin From reading I think that's what's meant. But not "density" (there's quite a lot of "wavy" terms like "variable i is now 3". I think that's probably ok for the beginner.
They can always "graduate" to a proper textbook if they desire
Keeps it conversational
 
@sehe yup
it's supposed to be light and easy to digest
 
BB King singalong.. 'Everyday, linker error blues'
 
> The Google Code Exporter is experiencing extremely high traffic. The export queue is full. Please come back later.
 
Surprise
 
9:44 PM
Such a shame that they are shutting down.
 
@sehe I was just pointing to the fact that "brevity" is more concise than "conciseness" (and if you don't like "brevity", I'd prefer "concision" over "conciseness").
 
I remember how incredibly cool I found it when I discovered it back in 2007.
 
@JerryCoffin lol
 
was it even competitive with github?
 
I could store my repo online for free!
 
9:45 PM
@JerryCoffin Concision sounds like a mix of concussion, concession and incision. Not nice
 
Does anyone know any good books/online resources for genetic algorithms?
 
shortness is longer than brevity but easier to understand.
 
@sehe What library is suitable for using after a stable version?
 
@Nooble genetic or generic?
 
@khajvah Genetic. The machine learning kind.
 
9:46 PM
@StackedCrooked Except a single chapter is short too. But that's not what concise meant there
 
@sehe It is, but there are a few things that probably should be fixed, like calling int i; a declaration when it's really a definition (technically yes, it is also a declaration, but for beginners it's best to keep the two separate, since the difference between the two frequently causes confusion).
 
@andrew Read again. I pretty much spilled the beans right away. Though hand written parsers were missing from the list :)
@JerryCoffin At this point I appreciate etymologic aptitude of "concision" but I'd go with clarity of intent any day
 
@sehe Okay so I cut the text by half
 
@Cinch And the image. Which you shouldn't have
 
@sehe The image is helpful.
Visual > text
 
9:49 PM
@Cinch Now, you have half a TL;DR (which is still meaningless) and a giant jpeg artifact posing as a table
@Cinch No need to keep linking it. It's hyperlinked and I had found it before. (be aware that things might get interpreted as spamming at some point.)
 
@sehe Meh.
A beginner should get a small blurb on each thing me thinks
A char isn't that obvious whether it's ASCII or Unicode
and what it really holds
 
Okay. Fair. It's your call
 
@sehe I find both "concision" and "brevity" clear, but I might be in the minority.
 
@Cinch I think I'd reserve that for the chapter on "handling text"
 
Bad news: Gold's gone. Good news: Tribute's on:)
 
9:51 PM
@JerryCoffin I find "conciseness" less ambiguous than "concision"
 
@JerryCoffin I always heard concision as conciseness.
 
@sehe It's part of the 0.2 section on how computers parse text into code
 
(I hate when I habitually use code quotes and then need to go back because my ODR will not allow me to abuse them for proper "words")
@Cinch Huh. You mean, the information is duplicated there :)
 
@Cinch Along with changing the "declaration" to "definition", I'd recommend changing: "assigning a simple variable to a constant" to "assigning a constant to a simple variable" (and probably leave out the "simple"). The variable is the target, and the constant the source.
 
9:54 PM
Is the only STL algorithm for sorting in descending order to use std::sort with greater instead of less?
 
@JerryCoffin Done.
@JerryCoffin Also definition is not declaration
 
@caps I suppose you could sort reverse iterators, if you really wanted to.
 
Prototype != implementation
 
@caps Nope. There's stable_sort, partial_sort, partial_sort_copy, nth_element etc. (bet you didn't mean that)
 
85
Q: sorting a vector in descending order

FredOverflowShould I use std::sort(numbers.begin(), numbers.end(), std::greater<int>()); or std::sort(numbers.rbegin(), numbers.rend()); // note: reverse iterators to sort a vector in descending order? Are there any benefits/drawbacks with one approach or the other?

Should have googled first.
@sehe No, I didn't mean that. :)
 
9:55 PM
@Cinch "DECLARATION: I AM." would be better written as: "DEFINITION: I AM".
 
@caps But I'm happy I don't have to be more unhelpful before you realize the obvious :)
 
@Cinch A definition is a declaration, but the reverse is not necessarily true.
 
@JerryCoffin Then what is declaration? "THERE EXISTS"?
 
Declaration means, THERE IS A FOO NOW GUYS!
 
@sehe Ok, I got. Thank you :)
 
9:57 PM
While definition is: HEY, FOO IS THIS THIS AND THAT
Putting the two together IS a definition + declaration.
 
@andrew out of curiosity, did you just seek me out in chat because of my ranking? :)
 
@sehe More or less, yes. A declaration tells the compiler about the existence of something, but does not (necessarily) make that thing exist. A definition makes the thing exist.
 
@JerryCoffin No, the compiler knows that it exists if you declare it, but it will give you a linking error because "what" it is hasn't been defined yet
 
@Cinch in the case of variables there's no way to distinguish (except for static class members and extern declarations?)
 
@sehe Whatever, semantics. I go declaration = interface and definition = implementation later
 
9:59 PM
@Cinch I don't see the contradiction
 

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