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00:00
I'll keep looking.
Waiting for Vlad to write something retarded on the std-discussion thread
Xeo
Xeo
fuck, already 1am
sleep
seriously
this makes 0 sense
Xeo
Xeo
cosmic ray flipped a bit
@Rapptz github.com/cplusplus/draft/issues/409 (on advice from std-discussion)
00:04
Oh wait.
xref.tex is fine.
they generate the index using \makeindex et al
@sehe did you see this one?
4
Q: Sorting a pair of vectors

the swineI know how to sort a vector of pairs, but how do you sort a pair of vectors? I can think of writing a custom "virtual" iterator over a pair of vectors and sorting that, but that seems quite complex. Is there an easier way? Is there one in C++03? I would like to use std::sort. This problem arises...

@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah I don't see how they'd fix this lol
@Rapptz See, not such a bad question!
Well, okay, the good question would have been "how can I fix this" and it would be on tex.se
but w/e
might be a bug in MakeIndex.
I'd love it if you'd be able to post your findings as an answer
00:15
I'm surprised they're even using makeindex
I thought most people used xindy by now
I use makeindex
the Xindi tried to destroy Earth
not having it mate
your answer has been edited
ya sexist pig
no istreambuf there
loooooooooool @ edit
what a world we live in
k I'm bored of reading LaTeX
I do that enough at work
@hichris123: Hi Chris. Thanks for your edit. I'm fairly confident that David Krauss and Richard Smith are male. Thanks again. — Lightness Races in Orbit 5 secs ago
Yes, this is just an editorial issue. All but one of the index entries for undefined behavior are listed under "behavior, undefined". The index entry for the undefined behavior mentioned in [istreambuf.iterator]p2 is listed under "undefined behavior" instead. The index entry for "undefined behavior" is supposed to just say "undefined behavior, see behavior, undefined", but due to this extra index entry, it says "undefined behavior, see behavior, undefined, 880" or similar.
That sound like what you found? (link)
00:30
yeah
thx
oooh here we go! rubs hands in delight
@LightnessRacesinOrbit is a well-known troll. He often ceases opportunies he see, to spread negative vibes. This is absolutely not the first time he implies negative things about others on SO. — Cheers and hth. - Alf 10 mins ago
seizes*, presumably
there's your dirty answer
0
A: Why does the C++ standard's index have this entry for "undefined behavior [sic]"?

RapptzIt's an editorial error. Essentially the line here should say \indextext{undefined} instead. The C++ standard uses \makeindex and a bunch of macros to generate their index and there is only one instance of \indextext{undefined behavior} being used and it points to istreambuf.iterator instead of...

I usually wouldn't make an edit like this, but it was brought up in the Tavern, so someone noticed it & was possibly bothered by it. — hichris123 20 secs ago
hahaha
people are fuckin' hilarious
lol
I didn't know people in the Tavern browsed C++ questions.
I think the only frequenter from meta is Cody Gray.
their bot probably has a search running for any gender-specific word. y'know, just in case.
00:41
@Rapptz and me
are you in the Tavern?
not in the tavern
But on both metas.
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 32 secs ago, by hichris123
@Mysticial How about this: it's one word. I edited. Time to move on?
hi chris 123
00:45
@Rapptz hi. ;)
It's easy to request that everyone moves on from a controversial thing when you're the one who instigated it. Sounds like you have very little respect for the controversy that you caused. Interesting.
@Mysticial I had some brief dalliances during my Lounge break.
There's no chatroom like the Lounge, though. It didn't satiate me like this place.
I've flagged the fuck out of Alf and taken a screenshot of his horrorshow comment thread for posterity. Last chance to read ;)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Sorry, but I fail to see how one word is that much of an issue. If you want to rollback, rollback. Otherwise, it's a ton of pointless bickering that won't create any action... making it more pointless.
Anyway, I seriously don't have time to go on an argument about one word. I have an essay to write & a test to study for. Moving on.
You're doing it again. When you alter a writer's words, you take responsibility for explaining why you did that. Instead you're doing a drive-by edit and trying to take the moral high ground over it, which is pretty shitty.
Good luck on your test.
@hichris123 Good luck matey.
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 10 mins ago, by hichris123
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It does characterize the whole forum as male, though. Which I know isn't what you meant, but it comes off that way. So I edited.
00:49
Not on the essay, though, cos I'm not that nice. :)
@hichris123 Erm I'm not in the Tavern ;P
I smell butthurt.
@Mysticial -hurt ?
Thanks both. :) It's World History.
@Mysticial Since apparently you can't read between the lines: I don't actually care about this post; I'm just taking the opportunity to make a social statement!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit It showed you in the ping dropdown thingy... figured you'd get a message in ~20 min or so.
00:50
what's that phrase
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol, I'm not talking to you.
@hichris123 weird, hasn't come up
I made 55 rep today :D
@Mysticial oh haha use reply-to dammit u
Good morning.
00:51
@Borgleader I made £54,000 today. From SO donations alone!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think it takes 15-20 min? I dunno. Something like that.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Everyone here knows that you don't get butthurt. You might get banned suspended, kicked, flagged, whatever. But you don't get butthurt.
@MarkGarcia what the shit is that?!
@Mysticial Exactly!
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I could too, if I used a hot avatar
@hichris123 Didn't know that. I wait with eager antici-
00:52
Pfft amateur.
I made £540,000
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Auto-clickers/hitters spamming their way to the top. Also some desperate Mozilla move.
Darude - Sandstorm playing on TV
feels like 2002
or whatever year it was popular
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Weirdly enough, my essay's going to be on moderation of sites... maybe this was some subconscious move I did to get me in the mood for writing? ;P
@Rapptz what's the song called?
@hichris123 I'd better get a mention
Dastorm - Sandrude.
00:54
AND DON'T SELL MY ANSWER AS AMAZON BOOKS
@Rapptz awesome
Get it together m8
@hichris123 -pation.
(I was gonna wait a year but fuck that)
I'm gonna take a nap
So I can play SSB Wii U to my heart's content when I awaken.
00:57
Moderation of online sites is very difficult due to differing opinions on what should be moderated. For example, earlier today I edited a post on Stack Overflow. This caused a guy named "Lightness..." to disagree with the edit. This has happened many times on Stack Exchange, due to the ability given to many community members to edit other's posts at will. It is both a blessing and a curse, as it allows others to make posts better, but also provides a place of contention.
... or something like that. ;)
I find the proof of the Nlog(N) sorting optimum so elegant it hurts my eyes.
@hichris123 I'm sorry, but could you please point me to where I disagreed with the edit? In fact I thanked you for it... twice in one comment!
(come on you walked right into that one)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I did, didn't I.
:)
\o/
Well this was one of those longer trolling missions that I feel has certainly run its course by now
1am again sigh
(Seriously though stop fucking with my words)
hah, just got the ping
Jul 21 at 19:26, by thecoshman
01:05
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'll ping you in the Tavern any time I want to edit them. Then wait for 14 minutes, and right before you get the ping, I'll edit. Sounds good? :P
@hichris123 deal
@Mysticial the first rule of blah blah
user1646075
Hi guiz! What have I missed? Oh, a shit-fight? Really?
No
Coop this is no time for caution
@aclarke Every second in the Lounge is a shit-fight. ;)
Fuck, I need to get pokemon tomorrow.
Totally forgot about it. Until someone asked to investigate a bug involving live videos and they gave me that pokemon livestream video as the test case.
01:14
@Mysticial Buy pokeballs first.
@Mysticial And, by "tomorrow", you mean "three score years ago"?
There's new pokemon like very few years.
user1646075
@MarkGarcia it keeps us warm at night
Yeah but you're not eight years old any more bruh :(
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm not. But that doesn't mean I'm not mentally 8 years old.
user1646075
01:16
I lost the plot after Gold and Silver. My nephew grew up sufficiently that he didn't need a trading pardner.
@Mysticial Ah, you've got me there!
@aclarke I started getting lost from 5th gen black/white.
I got lost about five minutes ago.
user1646075
the gold/silver names got repeated didn't they, along with red blue etc? I'm talking gold/silver back in the 250 days.
red/blue and gold/silver got remade.
The one coming out tomorrow is the remake of 3.
ruby/sapphire.
which I'm exited because it's map that I'm familiar with and remember.
But Gold/silver is still the best IMO.
The remake was "ok".
user1646075
01:20
I found a gameboy color late at night in a river park, and it had a Gold cart in it. This was just about the time a nephew got original yellow and a silver, so I thought .. sure why not. He learned to read from that game. Also it really pissed off a workmate who was into PS2 games; I could talk about pokemon and he'd have a melt-down. Bonus.
user1646075
@Mysticial I got all 250! I even did the Mew hack on a blue cart to get that.
I got all 250 including a "completely" legit mew from a Nintendo give away.
user1646075
oooooooooooooo
251 was never given out US.
In gen 4, I got everything except for Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus.
Not counting a hacked Darkrai that I pulled out of the GTS.
user1646075
the hack worked very well. The hassle was finding a blue cart at the time , and then playing it trhru sufficiently to do the business.
01:22
The hack was awesome.
Combined with the ditto and you could get anything.
user1646075
now the shops are loaded with carts. And I bet the batteries are all dead too. A dead battery killed all mine ;-((
I finished Far Cry 3
But GSC was written well enough that they didn't have such glitches.
I feel empty now
@aclarke Gold and Silver had terrible problems with battery. They fixed it for Crystal.
user1646075
01:23
@Mysticial yeah - bastards. The trading dup hack was fantastic too
My crystal cart is the only one that still works. I believe my RBY still works as well, but I haven't checked in a while.
user1646075
i fired it up a year ago and it was 'new game' - I managed not to cry.
user1646075
Easy enough to change a new battery, but sadly they are all off to the great training hall in the sky.
I still need to find the time to dupe and transfer all my gen 4 pokemon onto the cloud.
Since carts don't last forever.
I spent a lot of time on gen 4.
I got lost in gen5. Gen 6 made it worse since now I'm even more far behind.
user1646075
I might have to get back into it... 3rd and Final Jnr. has been watching pokemon on tv recently... We have one DS in the house, and he'll probably be ready to start reading the game this time next year.
user1646075
01:29
oooooooooo - i could get a disk for the Wii. I assume it's available for wii?
I have 4 DS's. 1 is dead though.
user1646075
yes! Gen 4 and 5 on Wii
user1646075
@Mysticial for having friends, or for a very lonely party with yourself?
1 is a DS lite. Another one to replace it. 1 is a DSi XL. And then a 3DS XL.
@aclarke Usually by myself when I'm on vacation and there's no internet.
user1646075
do you know which Wii version is walk and train game, or are they all battle arena type?
01:34
night, boys people
I don't have a wii.
user1646075
hmmm wiki is not clear on whether the 6 different offerings are map-based or not. Oh well, talk to a shop.
user1646075
maybe the battle arena type games would be a good start - less or no reading required. Also SSB and similar could be good for him :-)
Puns :3
01:53
We are always looking for talent. If you live outside ex-USSR we would be happy to work with you as outsourcer. To join our outsourcing team send us the samples of your work and the resume.
I wonder why they're so specific about the USSR thing
(this is Deep Shadows, a very small gamedev studio in Ukraine)
(they made Boiling Point and Precursors, which probably don't ring a bell for most people anyway)
also on their contact page there's a pic of them in military uniforms lol
you don't fuck with this
@caps hehe I did now
0
A: Sorting a pair of vectors

seheLet's make a sort/permute iterator, so that we can just say: int keys[] = { 5, 2, 3, 1, 4 }; char vals[] = { 'a', 'b', 'd', 'e', 'c' }; std::sort(make_dual_iter(begin(keys), begin(vals)), make_dual_iter(end(keys), end(vals))); See it Live On Coliru Based on the idea her...

There are over 450 missions and over 1MB of dialogs in the game.
is that a lot
is 1MB of dialogue a lot
why don't I know this
I'm supposed to be a programmer or sth
02:07
@AlexM. 1M characters.
~100K words.
@Mark You can edit the question. Also, you can reduce the code to the minimum relevant :/ — sehe 7 secs ago
02:35
@sehe The name is 'zipping'.
Boost.Iterator has zip_iterator while Boost.Range has combine, where a combined_range is a range of zip iterators. Go figure.
user1646075
i thought zipping was turning two containers into interlaced newcontainer. The duel sorting they are asking for is just synchronized movement?
I have a zipper on my trousers
user1646075
and I keep telling you to pull it up. Nobody appreciates the unwelcome guest.
sorry, should have brought an extra chair
@aclarke Eh, I see your point. An actual zipper has the Y shape to bring the elements/thingies together, but it doesn’t pair them.
user1646075
02:41
@AlexM. who are you kidding. You'd only need a small plate, like for under tea cups
In the C++/D world I think round_robin is the name most familiar for interleaving.
round_robin has different implications though
round robin is all for all
Different from what?
zipping
user1646075
I didn't read the SO Q more than wot is posted here, but it really sounded like sync sorting. Is there a scientific name for that
02:47
Right. Also different from cartesian products. And cartesian products without repetitions (does that one have a name?).
cartesian product returns a set
it should have no duplicates
user1646075
probably
oh right, what’s the one with repeats then
[(a, b) | a <- as, b <- bs]
user1646075
cross product is the alternative probably?
Ell
Ell
Evening
Back from work finally
user1646075
02:51
time to drink then!
@LucDanton zip!
Ell
Ell
I'm in bed xD
@Rapptz Nope. Try it. (There’s an extension that makes [(a, b) | a <- as | b <- bs] describe a zip.
user1646075
oh yeah. I'm thinking vectors and matices and that
In do notation it’s do { a <- as; b <- bs; return (a, b) } if that’s more your thing.
cuz zipping is applicative but not monadic
Ell
Ell
02:54
I forget what all these type classes are
@Ell Running the examples in the interpreter is more instructive, I would think. This is more about lists/ranges than it is those type classes.
Ell
Ell
03:37
Yeah
04:06
@sehe The kind of answer that makes me question the idea of me answering SO questions at all.
What should we do with tag-only edits that only add a specific version of an already-there tag (i.e. adding ios7 to an ios question)
Depends if the question is specific to that version.
@Xeo, I need your template masturbation expertise. Did I do this right?
4
template <typename T,class... Args> inline
T* PlaceTrivialObject(void* mem,Args&&... args){
    static_assert(std::is_trivially_destructible<T>::value,"Object must be trivially destructible.");
    return new (mem) T(std::forward<Args>(args)...);
}
It seems to compile and run correctly. But that doesn't mean shit in C++.
@Mysticial dat placement of inline.
@Mysticial Better use T{}.
So that it'll work for aggregates and such.
@MarkGarcia What if it isn't? Can I reject it? If it was already made, do you think I could roll it back?
04:19
@MarkGarcia That can be fixed. It's habit I picked up when I started dealing with ridiculously long function declarations.
In my actual code, it'll be replaced with a force inline macro.
@APerson Rollback's the best thing. Reject of course if you're reviewing.
Though I'm a hypocrite on this stuff. Too much work. :P
Cool.
@MarkGarcia I'm asking cuz this: stackoverflow.com/users/2756205/…
@MarkGarcia What would PlaceTrivialObject<std::vector<long>>(p, 3, 3) do?
@LucDanton That issue again...
@LucDanton Oh gotcha! std::vector isn't trivially destructible!
:P
You can write a trivially destructible type taking std::initializer_list<value_type>.
04:29
If Luc hasn't said anything is wrong, then I probably did it right. :)
I didn’t say anything because I’m not Xeo.
@Mysticial yup
(also video games)
@Mysticial Why did you pick trivially destructible?
@LucDanton Because I'm never going to call the destructor.
04:33
that seems cromulent
It’s typical to use ::new (mem) … to make sure to use the right new operator. But that’s for protection against Machiavelli more than anything.
Oh I’ve said that already. Carry on then.
I have two main use cases for it. One is polymorphism on the stack. I placement new the object into a stack buffer and forget about it.
Now that’s playing with fire.
The whole point is to avoid the memory allocation.
Yes, dangerous and not idiomatic. But the cost of the allocations is huge.
I've actually been doing this for a while, but I want to add this static_assert layer to make sure I'm not accidentally doing this to something that will leak.
04:39
Oh, on the matter of inconsequential things: you can write it std::is_trivially_destructible<T>().
oh, I didn't know you could do that. Thanks.
@LucDanton interesting, that doesn't compile in VS2013
That’s unfortunate.
Because constexpr.
I find the ::value stuff is more visual noise than interesting information.
I remember asking here a while back whether it was safe to leak a trivially destructible object. And someone said yes.
Storage occupied by trivially destructible objects may be reused without calling the destructor.
So I'm not outside the standard.
04:48
indeedy
Ha! I found the first place in my code that did this with a non-trivially destructible object.
quick question: when it comes to Macros do gcc and msvc differ
I not so much a C\C++ person so I'm asking in terms of...
MSVC has bugs on its variadic macros implementation.
The predefined macros will obviously differ.
The rest should be just bugs.
Er, MSVC has bugs, before anyone points out.
04:57
What I mean is: is it like Web Browsers where some JS or HTML works strangely or doesn't at all in some browser?
If you're not limiting yourself to macros, then A LOT.
MSVC is IE on the compiler side of things.
oh damn :/
Nothing that's too big, but would surprise you here and there.
ok. What about Gcc to make a .dll for windows. and then use msvc (visual studio win32) project for the UI ?
Better use MSVC for both.
05:01
I'm doing a VERY simple project just to play with C. I want to eventually make it cross platform. So A library project that provides a framework for the app and then separate GUI projects for windows and linux (gtk on linux)
I was exaggerating with the "A LOT". Mostly bugs, but mostly can be worked-around.
NOTE: this is just a learning/just for fun project. a HIGHLY dumb task/todo manager
Or use MinGW/GCC/Clang together with Qt.
All three at the same time? :)
But I do want to learn how to make it cross platform. And I've read about and started using scons for building
05:03
@LucDanton dammit!
I can build very dumb libraries with scons on linux and windows.
@MarkGarcia sorry no Qt. The GUI is NOT fully native and I'm highly against that
WPF isn't! ;)
@gideon If you want that then wxWidgets.
Why did I think that swap() didn't involve any construction? I've been thinking that it somehow swapped memory addresses or something.
I just read that it is typically implemented as swap(T &a, T &b) { T c = a; a = b; b = c; } and feel really dumb for writing code that assumed it was more efficient than that.
05:16
When using ADL-enabled swap you can in fact end up swapping pointers—by picking a class-specific swap.
I must have seen people talking about it being used with the pimpl idiom and thinking that was effectively how it worked everywhere.
@LucDanton Yeah, IFF the data you're dealing with is in terms of pointers.
'You can' as in 'you might, when applicable' :)
I thought it also somehow swapped memory addresses of stack-type objects.
Which in retrospect sounds really stupid and nonsensical.
Pointers inside them, it can.
@MarkGarcia Yes. But if I do swap(intval1, intval2) I'm still doing one construction and two assignments. Not just magically swapping values.
I'm kind of in awe that I was under this impression for so long. I did, for a little while when I first started trying to use them, think that using smart_ptrs from boost would keep me from even the possibility of access violations. A similar misunderstanding.
05:41
Alright. Anyway. Thanks guys. Thanks @MarkGarcia
Mostly this months Goal is to Get good with C and C++ so I'm just mostly playing around. I'm making silly linux CLI apps and right now Win32 apps in C
any other advice before I go. I've got all the books I need but I learn more by doing, experimenting and reading existing code.
Yep gone through them. Have had quite a couple of those books for a month or so now.
completed some of them.
@gideon I'd give two bits of advice: 1) don't try to study C and C++ simultaneously--despite some similarities, you need to think quite differently to make good use of each language, and 2) give yourself more time. One month can easily be spent on a single fairly narrow area of C++ (e.g., making good use of standard algorithms).
@JerryCoffin no C++ I'm on C right now Pure pure C only
@gideon That, at least, is a good decision (IMO).
05:48
I'm even incorporating some of OOP with C (from the book 21st Century C) to make win32 apps.
@JerryCoffin also I have mostly a C# background and web app dev. doing it for many years.
@gideon Mostly a poor idea, IMO. If you want to do OOP, C is a lousy choice.
Somehow I feel a C programming book is a collection of C++ anti-patterns
@gideon That is a serious handicap, but if you're motivated, you can undoubtedly learn to program in spite of it.
Jerry is calling C# programmers handicaps :'(
@Mikhail I doubt it. To qualify as an anti-pattern, something has to initially seem like a good idea, and only later you realize what problems it causes. In this case, (at least to anybody who realizes what they're looking at) the problems will probably be obvious almost immediately.
05:53
@JerryCoffin hahahaah. Yea I'm learning that the hard way. but thats how I learn. by playing around and experimenting. I never complete books like a good reader
@chmod711telkitty Hmm...no, I call golfers handicaps though. My guess aren't usually very accurate though.
@JerryCoffin haha oh boy. Ive done win32 and C for a year or so when I was 15 Then even tried MFC but then shifted to C# and ever since then (9 years ago) just toyed a little with C
@chmod711telkitty when I started toying with *nix machines a year ago I realised indeed I was haddicapped
and I want to make sure I know C\C++ in and out
@JerryCoffin Error handling is something I have trouble with, I am guilty of returning error codes in C++ which seems like a really good idea when you write the function but a bad one when you use it :-)
@gideon Using C (especially to write Windows apps) is a bit like learning to build a ship in a bottle. Learning the basic skills is almost trivial, but even at best, it takes almost amazing levels of patience. C++ takes more work initially, but is (IMO) much more reasonable in the long term.
Hi @CatPlusPlus, how are you this fine morning?
06:00
I wonder whether I can build a bottle shaped ship
@CatPlusPlus :-)
@chmod711telkitty Make one out of sand. Doesn't float worth a damn, but really quick and easy to make...
Hi @TonyTheLion. I'll bet your answer will be happier (and more regal) than what I got from the last cat who came in here...
I'm alright, though not quite awake yet
@JerryCoffin thats a really good way to put it :D
You caught me pre-coffee :P
06:13
@TonyTheLion Maybe I'll try again in 8 hours or so. For now, I think I'll go get some sleep.
@JerryCoffin ok good night
 
1 hour later…
Xeo
Xeo
07:27
@Mysticial you can leak anything and everything as long as you don't rely on the dtor being called, technically.
Wait, can you rephrase that?
cpx
cpx
Why does templates look confusing with pointer arguments?
I don't see why you need pointers here
cpx
cpx
Just an example I picked off somewhere.
I think I just wrote an overload version.
Yes, but in practice I never had to use pointers like this, just either references or pointers are sufficient.
Xeo
Xeo
@Mysticial There's a clause somewhere in the standard that says it's fine to not-call dtors, as long as the program doesn't depend on the effects of that dtor.
07:41
ah
@R.MartinhoFernandes now... I'm no rocket scientist... but, if that we lander is getting some exposure to sunlight... can't it slowly charge up it's batteries whilst in some hibernation mode then do a burst of activity?
Xeo
Xeo
Oh wow, I have to say, the C# 6 changes seem really nice.
So I found a total of 3 objects that I was incorrectly placement new'ing because they had RAII.
Not bad for a small template hack.
@Xeo Woah, some nice things in there
07:56
0
Q: Shouldn't the use of OP or other common stackexchange-ese acronyms be discuraged?

flobEach time I trip over OP I think it would be way better to use poster, question author or anything that anyone without deeper knowledge about SE would understand without a trip to the glossary CW. I once read somewhere on SE that you should read your answer as if your mother would be standing ...

^^ OP must love typing.

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