« first day (1452 days earlier)      last day (3482 days later) » 

12:00 AM
I should watch different comedic works.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes does the standard allow that? I thought it was tuned to avoid that sort of thing
 
@aclarke The standard allows most wasteful things, yes.
However, a compiler doing that would be going out of its way to do it.
The naive solution is better...
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes dang. I thought we'd never see closures like that. So the standard allows access to vars that otherwise would be out of scope? I thought not...
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes indeed!
 
@aclarke Er, no, not that.
Well, it does, but as UB
 
user1646075
12:01 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes good - i'm not deluded.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes fairly viscious UB I would expect.
 
Ell
Why do I stay up at night?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wasn't this the guy who was pushing the idea of engineering based on real data, not stories about imaginary crap? Apparently, as usual, that changes if the imaginary crap agrees with his foregone conclusion.
 
@aclarke Contrast int& f() { int i = 0; return i; } with auto f() { int i = 0; return [&i] -> int& { return i; } }. Both allowed, both useless (can only lead to bad things).
 
Ell
Its like I delay tomorrow for as long as possible
 
user1646075
12:04 AM
@Ell desperate for human contact which the lounge kinda offers, albeit in a very disfunctional form
 
Ell
Yeah I think it is that
 
@JerryCoffin It's lovely how he says some obviously true thing (and thus of questionable interest) and then invariably follows it with completely delusional bullshit.
 
user1646075
@LucDanton indeed. even if the 2nd option used [i] instead (with other adjustments), that lump should just be on the stack OR optimised out of existence, should it not?
 
@aclarke Which lump?
 
It explains where he gets support from: if you can't see through the bullshit (gosh, really?), he'll have several points that you cannot disagree with, so you get the impression he really knows what he's talking about.
 
user1646075
12:07 AM
@LucDanton teh storage if [&i] would usually require a block of memory to keep the capture
 
Would it?
References require no storage.
 
[i] or [&i]? You’ve mentioned both. In any case they both use the closure object as storage, in a manner of speaking (references don’t have storage but nevermind that).
 
user1646075
@Ell any interest in any hobbies or activities? Simple doable things like that indoor rockclimbing looks like a great place to meet people, and everyone can do it.
 
Part of it for me. I.e. I stay up because I'm a squirrel.
 
user1646075
@LucDanton well, yeah, both. I expect that [&i] needs to hide away an address in the storage, because any kind of thing could be passed in. I s'pose a good optimiser could notice when it can take shortcuts too, but in general even a reference would require a memory slot to be stored?
 
Ell
12:10 AM
Besides programming not really. I am supposed to be studying also but its difficult
I think I'll get over this phase soon, its just a shock being home alone basically all day
 
@aclarke That’s something that should be considered independently of C++ lambda expressions, since they’re specified in terms of classes. IOW, you want to ask how struct foo { int& i; }; works.
 
user1646075
Sailing clubs are good fun - I sailed from kiddie-age, and as a guy, I found that horse-riding was an excellent way to meet women with powerful thighs... That may not be much use to you?
 
Ell
Haha I cycle
I guess any people I meet who cycle are also likely to have powerful thighs :P
 
@JerryCoffin Haha, it gets better. 12 minutes later, he's now using lambdas to avoid repetition in a function.
NOPE
Scratch that.
 
user1646075
@Ell great! a flat-mate of mine who was big into cycling, talked me into joining him. We'd ride out with a local group organised by a shop, so that's another meeting optino that you could fit right into.
 
12:12 AM
"However, all those caveats about lambda performance (...)"
Still as stupid as before.
 
user1646075
@Ell always a good thing on both genders!
 
FWIW auto f() { int i = 0; return [i]() mutable -> int& { return i; }; } is more than fine.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sorry; I was reading the backlog and this bit looked interesting, but I was unable to work out who "he" is referring to.
 
@Ell Cycling is weird because it exercises your muscles in a way they were not built for (pretty much walking sitting)
 
Or what work it you are referring to.
 
12:14 AM
@LeviMorrison Jonathan Blow: youtube.com/watch?v=5Nc68IdNKdg
 
Thanks.
 
@LeviMorrison Trigger warning.
 
Bleh, why are semi-interesting videos over 1h? :D
 
TFW nearly half the starboard is making fun of your profession T_T
 
user1646075
also something like karate.
 
12:18 AM
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes cycling is great though. @Ell, Make sure you ride just in front of anyone you're interested in. Assuming you have a decent ass...
 
user1646075
@LucDanton umm, is it? I need to get up to speed on all that...
 
Ell
@aclarke haha I've been told I have a nice ass but I don't believe so myself
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes cycling is great though. Make sure you ride just in front of anyone you're interested in. Assuming you have a decent ass...
 
Ell
I'm overweight really, I need to start properly cycling
 
user1646075
12:19 AM
@LucDanton where would the storage for the copied i be put?
 
Ell
I usually just do 60 or 70 miles every now and then
 
@aclarke Closure object.
 
Ell
But its very irregular and infrequent. I need more structure in my day. Maybe two hours every morning
 
user1646075
@LucDanton oh duhh. yeah, i see your point about being like the prior fucntors...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes At least in the first video, at least a few of the things he started with as "obviously true" were, in fact, highly questionable (at best). For one, he had something about latency and throughput being precisely equal for serial software (only true in the absence of pipelining).
 
user1646075
12:21 AM
@Ell also - walk a neighbours dog. All the benefits of visiting a dog park without the cost of looking after and feeding the mutt....
 
Ell
You're full of suggestions :D thanks :)
 
user1646075
@Ell i should also. my health has plummeted in the last year or 3 for various reasons. Don't suppoes you live in Sydney...
 
Ell
I don't no :P
 
user1646075
@Ell no worries! I am currently in occasional dialog with a few nephews who are straddling the teenage years. I try to combine good advice with subtly fucking with their heads
 
user1646075
or giving them advice that puzzles - eg "always make sure your fingernails are trimmed AND buffed". They think I'm talking about grooming and appearance....
 
12:25 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes "I have to search through the code to know who calls this function?" Yeah. Welcome to basic programming.
 
10 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@LeviMorrison Trigger warning.
 
If you're sensitive to stupidity, you should avoid it.
 
I need to go look up this guy's background.
 
@LeviMorrison He made Braid.
Good game designer, not so good programmer.
 
12:26 AM
2 hours ago, by Ell
@Sofffia is this the guy that wrote Braid?
I double-checked to be sure :<
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes He doesn't seem to be good at aligning his ideas with budgets as well.
 
Ell
I recognised him from Indie Movie
Or whatever it was called
The film about indie games
 
user1646075
@Ell sorry missed that. if someone wants to say that, then for all practical purposes, they really believe it and are desirous of it no doubt. A kate moss ass isn't the only style that's attractive. Many would say it's too bony. The coke will do that to a person, apparently.
 
Ell
Yeah haha
 
When he says "in programming school" does he mean the CS degree he didn't quite finish back in the early 90's? I should sure hope teachers have gotten better since then.
 
user1646075
12:31 AM
@Ell can I say "you go girl (? correct? not one of these C++ cross-dressers are you?)" I believe in you!
 
Yeah, skipping this one. Seemed interesting but may as well just reread Carmack's email about it.
 
> Doesn't [lambda] capture help me make blocks threadsafe?
wat
Captures help make the code actually work. That's it.
Oh god.
So far I was understanding all the bullshit.
Now it just got soooooo nonsensical I have no no idea what's going on.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes where are you guys reading?
 
Apparently lambda captures are something you can violate?
> I haven't implemented this, but this is my claim.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes this sounds like my muddle-headed expression. And this guy is teaching people?
 
12:37 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes plz stop T_T
 
lol
Found one potentially good idea.
And then he ruined it immediately.
So, you can use captures syntax in a function declaration to be explicit about which globals a free function can access.
However, you can just not write any capture and access every global.
 
Ell
@aclarke I'm a guy but sure you can say that :D
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well---"global" meaning "anything defined outside the lambda."
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes dunno, I know that MS deliberately used them for their AMP spec because it automatically dealt with quite a few corner cases of explicitly gathering captures
 
user1646075
@Ell oh right. A green pattern doesn't show personality. Ell is short for .... ?
 
Ell
12:40 AM
Elliot :)
Male version
 
user1646075
ahhhhhhhhhhhh. ok - "you go guy!"
 
Ell
Elliot is unisex though and ell could be short for ellie. A lot of people seem to think I'm a girl
On SO anyway
 
@Mgetz Er, captures basically deal with getting your lambdas to compile.
You can't access things that you didn't capture, or that aren't global.
 
user1646075
@Ell that's because you rarely or never act like a dick.
 
@Ell it's the internet you can be what you want to be insofar as you're consistant
 
12:42 AM
That's true for all code.
 
Ell
@mgetz this is true
@aclarke I try ;) you don't either :)
 
Oh, but normal captures in such free functions with limited access to globals are not transitive by default.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes MS took it one step further AFAIK but of course
 
Ell
Nor does the robot
I think most people don't
Or mgetz
 
user1646075
@Ell hmm some might disagree. But i like to have fun, and words sometimes hide the twinkle.
 
Ell
12:43 AM
But a few do and its meh not nice
 
@Ell really!?
 
So you can have function f() that promises to access only global_a, and yet calls function g() that can access global_b.
 
Ell
But its usually just bursts of being a dick so
 
Yes, very helpful.
 
user1646075
@Ell i think there's a few vampires on here, sucking self-esteem from others
 
12:44 AM
The most stupid part is that he is clearly aware of this problem, because he also has an alternative syntax that does the right thing.
 
Ell
@r.martinho iirc he said use [[]]
Ah there you go
 
In the works: a call list to know what functions are called inside.
 
@Ell That should be the only one. The others make no sense.
 
Ell
I don't know why he'd even suggest the first syntax :S
Yeah :/
 
> A buddy of mine needs help with a c++ 101 class, I have a ton of experience in java, and I've read about 50 pages of a C book. Whats the quickest way to be able to help my friend out?
 
12:45 AM
@Rapptz Take a C++ 101 class! :P
 
@Rapptz Don't help.
Good morning.
 
@Rapptz RUN AWAAAAAAAAY!
 
@Ell And more importantly, the presence of the others forces you into a schizo world where you either use the [] ones or the [[]] ones, never both.
 
@Rapptz Damn, was about to link that.
> php
 
12:47 AM
> Java: No globals.
OMG he doesn't even understand Java.
 
man that article is so bad
does that not qualify as blogspam in /r/cpp?
 
lol
> [Games] will de facto use a whole truckload of globals
 
I think the newbie is sincere in his question.
 
That's his argument against forbidding globals.
 
lol
 
Ell
12:49 AM
I don't understand how he managed to get a game out successfully :S
 
are you guys still watching game_dev.avi?
 
It's funny.
Now he thinks you can optionally pay for increased safety when you are ready to ship, instead of having it from the beginning.
 
Plz dont think we're all like him T_T plz plz plz
 
It's like, one of those named laws or whatever.
 
12:51 AM
Well I haven't really seen many good gamedevs
 
You can't write a mess and enable safety right at the end. Your code will simply take weeks to get back compiling.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I've long since come to the conclusion that games are such a specialized case that their code is useless elsewhere
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Just like you cant slack off and then workout like a madman for 2 days and expect to have the same effect
 
Smash Bros for 3DS has ruined my hands
I miss my comfy controllers
 
@Rapptz Because most of the good ones stay at work; the lesser ones are the ones who like to talk in front of an audience.
Disclaimer: I don't know what I'm talking about.
 
12:53 AM
@Mgetz Their code is still terrible when viewed in their own (arbitrary) context bubble.
@MarkGarcia You sound like a game programmer :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes eh... it doesn't crash too often
 
@Mgetz Do you play games often?
 
Ell
When do I become a game dev also?
When I finish a game?
 
Releases that crash all the time are not at all uncommon.
 
user1646075
@Rapptz every schoolboy wants to be a games developer. Even my 10 year old has made noises about making a game. Thus, most "game developers" are little more that over-excited kiddies with no clue about where the bulk of work is in IT
 
12:54 AM
@Ell I guess.
 
Ell
I'm cloning a game now but it runs slow as molasses
 
@Ell But it runs fast when it crashes! Same thing when you pour molasses into a spoon. Ugh so slow... wait no! WTF!
 
> I don't know about garbage collection specifically (...)
Half an hour before...
> Garbage collection is the reason I wouldn't recommend Scheme for any kind of programming
 
Ell
I wonder if he watched his video before uploading it
 
@Ell It's a live talk. This is from the questions part.
 
user1646075
12:59 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes WAAAA?
 
I'm starting to think I could have made a better one =/
 
Ell
Ohh right
 
user1646075
links! Please!
 
It's above.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes how far ;-(
 
1:00 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I own quite a few yes... including most of the elder scrolls series... games that taught me to literally save every few minutes because they crashed quite frequently
 
@Mgetz Spam that F5 butan yes?
 
@Borgleader F5 F5 F5 F5, FULL Save.. repeat
 
I saved so many times while playing The Witcher 2 I ran out of save slots and had to start over from Slot 1
 
user1646075
 
@Borgleader and to think... those games were programmed on DirectX, the framework that has relatively stable drivers supporting it
 
1:04 AM
TW:R2 is my current favourite. It was released in a horribly unplayable state (both with crashes every other turn and with ridiculous bugs all over the place). 14 patch cycles later it's actually awesome, but that's almost a year after release. It still crashes from time to time, though.
 
Only developer that seems relatively stable is Blizzard
EA is just questionable
and Volition/THQ/Deep Silver are fun... but crash happy
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes I used to think that consoles were a trouble-free way to game - very VERY rarely had to deal with issues. but recently, BF4 was horrendously unplayable in campaign mode even more than a year after release with some big patches; and GTA V has had some gob-stoppers that stopped it loading. GTA traditionally has some obvious defect, but nothing like this....
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes TW:R2?
 
Total War: Rome 2.
 
I know why good developers don't, in general, make games... but I'm curious what it would look like if they did
 
1:10 AM
Members defaulting to private in Rust structs is a nightmare, apparently.
 
wat? Really?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes huh?
 
Ell
I'm gonna try and enter the dream zone
Night all
 
He finds having to write pub a major nightmare, I suppose.
 
user1646075
1:11 AM
ciao
 
@Ell Good night.
 
(srsly though, im off to bed)
 
'night
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Just to make sure: private means mod-private?
Or do only the impls get to touch those members?
 
1:19 AM
Dunno, actually.
> My biggest function in The Witness is 14000 lines
ARE YOU FREAKING TROLLING ME
Just no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.
There is no special corner case that justifies that in non-generated code.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes he used to be a FORTRAN programmer
 
You're just horrible and should not be let anywhere near a text editor.
 
I once wrote a code and it was many line.
 
After checking, privacy control cannot be finer-grained than the module level.
So… kind of a moot point. pub really means export.
 
Yeah, that is what it means.
 
1:25 AM
Now sucking in at least two languages!
 
I heard correctly, right? youtube.com/…
This can't be true.
 
I’ll watch that for you but you’ll owe me.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes BUUUUUURRRRN IT TO THE GROUND
 
Well.
 
You can't have a 14000-line function, be aware of it, and mention it in public as not a bad thing.
Can't be.
I'll have nightmares.
 
1:27 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes since you're already having them I don't feel bad about telling you about some code I inherited once... two 5400 line functions... exactly the same except one used handles and the other used FILEs
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes maybe he meant number of lines in the file.
but he did say function
 
Well, check like five seconds before.
"Just like I don't think functions have to be small, [insert scary message here], I don't think files have to be small"
Oh shit, I missed the mumbling after that.
"maybe 17000 lines"
Ok, this is not funny anymore.
;_;
 
I heard 7000, i.e. half the first estimate.
 
user1646075
@R.MartinhoFernandes now I know why single function softwares are measured in the gigabytes so often ;-(
 
@LucDanton Nope, there's definitely a "teen" syllable there. youtube.com/…
 
1:33 AM
Thanks for the link, but no thanks.
 
anything over 9000 in excessive
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes he seems to be in favor of excessive inlining vs. reusable libraries
 
It's not even about reuse.
How do you... anything in that code?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lots and lots of blocks?
 
1:41 AM
lots of keystrokes
 
Challenge accepted!
 
I'm trying to think of a way to actually write such a function.
It's really hard to push so far.
What do you do? Unroll loops with huge fully inlined bodies?
Unroll nested loops?
 
user1646075
    if sprite1.something
    if sprite2.something
    .... repeat 1000 times
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yep
 
user1646075
    if room1
        .... 200 lines of code
 
1:43 AM
The only reaction I can muster is 'go away; leave programming for the newbies'.
 
Well, you could represent an image as nested switch statements... bout the only thing I can think of
 
Because they do scripting, not programming.
 
I can't imagine how much dead code they have in that function
 
It's like something straight out of unmaintain.html
And before I go, here's some unrelated craziness.
 
Aw, nuts. I’m trying to refactor all the stuff that takes signatures (e.g. ResultOf<A(B, C)>), turns out I’ve made type_erasure::invokable<Sig> ‘clever’. So that type_erasure::invokable<void() &> prevents calls on rvalues :<
 
 
2 hours later…
3:44 AM
hey guys, I'm having trouble deleting a specific pointer from a vector<unique_ptr<MyType>>, i'm not sure how I should be searching for the unique_ptr element
 
 
2 hours later…
user1646075
5:52 AM
shhh you woke me up.
 
user1646075
time to leave work I s'pose...
 
user1646075
@ScottW you're a dog.
 
user1646075
@ScottW a happy looking dog. Yours, I presume?
 
user1646075
awww cute. Anyway, nice talking to you. I have to go pick up my pussy.
 
user1646075
 
6:14 AM
@ScottW sorry. I do have to sleep. (yesterday my last chat message was still on the same screen when I got back in the morning, too)
 
I am here all along - didn't feel like talking because the day was not too good to start with & I have been unproductive ... and it's not like I don't have anything to do.
juggling a few things making little progress on all of them
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes at least, the guy has quality guidelines, aaand clearl boundaries too.
@aclarke GOSUB 20750 ; yay
Oh fuck. That's no longer one function then. Well. I was just associating
@LucDanton is there no trait to sfinae on ... <hides/>
Also, rvalue voids... Not something I've thought about before
@R.MartinhoFernandes I searched that for the numbers 17000 and 14000, but alas: that's not recommended practice it seems
@Mgetz it seems you are subtly stating the opposite of the truth there
 
6:31 AM
dunno about rvalues, but I know kvalues are often used for enumerators
 
7:10 AM
spending days achieving little just another way to slow suicide
 
I am bored in tram on my way to work. Post some entertaining pictures.
 
7:29 AM
do you like the fat horse in my avatar?
 
To the yahoo who kept knocking http://ericniebler.com offline with 50K hits/day, you're a very bad person and I don't like you. Blocked. :-P
 
@sehe Whoah. The hack was actually just to DOS Eric...
 
user1804599
If your program executes a path that may not be executed (i.e. is always a bug) what do you do?
 
user1804599
I assert False ATM.
 
Fix it?
:P
 
user1804599
7:37 AM
I mean before it's executed.
 
@sehe out_of_range error
 
user1804599
It's technically unreachable unless there is a bug elsewhere.
 
Got rid of the bird from my avatar, the little thing comes to beg for meat every 20 minutes when I am in my study during the day. When I walk to the kitchen, the bird stalks me at the kitchen window. Unlike the magpies, it did not bring their babies around, unlike the kookaburra, it did not allow me to touch it. The piece of trash is both lazy & ungrateful ...
 
@rightføld Remove the code and assert false on entry is what I would do.
 
user1804599
There is no code to remove. :v
 
7:39 AM
Oh. You said "path" though...
 
user1804599
if isinstance(original_address, StreetAddress):
    # ...
elif isinstance(original_address, POBoxAddress):
    # ...
else:
    assert False
 
user1804599
Python lacks pattern matching so I have to use isinstance.
 
It's hacked. :P
 
user1804599
Use Z shell.
 
Oh. That reminded me to update git...
 
user1804599
7:42 AM
With Oh My Zsh.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
so, did you have some spare room to crash at?
 
user1804599
7:58 AM
Ugh, id being a built-in function in Python is so terrible.
 
user1804599
It's like, the most useless function ever and it has like, a commonly-used name.
 

« first day (1452 days earlier)      last day (3482 days later) »