« first day (1451 days earlier)      last day (3496 days later) » 

10:00 PM
@rightføld Christwire is a satirical website.
 
@AndyProwl I tried, but the guy that talks is awfully nervous.
 
user1804599
And Lounge<C++> is the home of Captain Obvious.
 
After 15 minutes I couldn't hear his nervousness anymore and I have up.
 
Turns out us Brits are not just odd, there's a sound reason why we don't use mixer taps. Spoiler: Too stingy for lids :S
 
lol, ok I'd rather not watch it then
it would make me nervous too
 
10:01 PM
also
@meta.michael: I would avoid making it sound like reading the documentation is an after-thought or optional possibility that the OP may be interested in exploring if they get some free time one day. It should be made clear that reading the documentation is an absolute necessity in our trade, and certainly something that is expected of OPs. We can do that whilst being polite about it, of course, but let's carefully choose our language so that the importance of this act is not lost in translation. — Lightness Races in Orbit 39 secs ago
@CatPlusPlus :P
 
I guess what I meant to say is that it was really painful to watch.
 
@thecoshman Except we absolutely do use mixer taps.
 
I think I'll avoid pain for tonight
 
Sorry, 10:45 is where I stopped
 
@Sofffia anything you particularly liked from what's available?
 
10:02 PM
@Sofffia hint: it's the dispatch central/cariier that gets to decide. If there's a complete network outage, you might not get any response. Officially disconnected landlines get the special tone I mentioned earlier, etc.
 
Thank you Google for reminding me.
 
ah there's the talk about google coding standards, I need some humour
 
@AndyProwl I only watched Scott's one, and I had a dejavu. I think I've seen that talk before, or at least the topic where really similar.
 
There is a merkin soccer team 'Real Salt Lake'. I wonder if they're as good as Madrid?
 
@AndyProwl Yes, that was linked and mocked here IIRC
 
10:03 PM
@Sofffia yeah I've seen that one at least twice before
he gave it at NDC
and somewhere else too
but the part about N3922 was fun
 
@AndyProwl Try watching from here and see if that bothers you.
 
@thecoshman So you are bad at bringing houses up to date
 
user1804599
@Sofffia lol
 
@Sofffia he looks obsessed or something
 
And run with unsafe constructs from 40 years ago and work around that in a really dumb way
gotcha
I don't know what I should use for Docker base
 
10:07 PM
at 10:50 he says they don't use STL (whatever that means) but they use custom allocators a lot
that's confusing
 
The weird thing is that in the first minutes he is a decent speaker. Then at some point around 9-10 minute he realizes something and just goes all weird.
 
ah, probably not standard allocators, some other stuff
@Sofffia lol
 
He realised he uses C++ and talks to nerds about it
Existential failure
 
lol
 
10 minutes is a lot for realizing that
 
10:08 PM
He's probably a gamedev
 
-18
A: Proposed new code of conduct for all Stack Exchange sites

Steve CohenSpeaking for myself, I find the quick and silent downvote of a question by the people who run these sites to be the total antithesis of "nice". It's one thing to downvote newby questions that are clearly someone asking for answers to their homework, but it's used far too often on other occasions...

I love when rants about downvotes get downvoted to shit
 
@AndyProwl He probably has had a decade of experience in C++. That's a lot.
 
the slide's title is "How are games like the Mars rover?"
probably gamedev yes
 
Also he lost me at minute 7 I think.
He just began talking about things I just couldn't care less.
 
I never watch tech videos; I'm not going to watch this one.
 
10:10 PM
And I was in my bed, playing with my phone while listening and I didn't want to get up to turn off the video. Then 10th minute reached, and I stood up as fast as possible.
 
btw there's a talk #2 by that nonsense guy we were mocking some time ago
about C++ and game development
 
The C++11 guy?
 
unique_ptr<widget>* something
or something like that
 
Him? Really?
Link please.
 
The Italian guy?
 
10:11 PM
I would totally go to see one of his talk live.
 
I think so, at least here I see talk #2. Haven't watched the first one
so it might be a repost
or maybe it's this one you guys were talking about
 
Oh not him.
 
Yeah yeah.
That's the one.
 
oh, ok
 
I thought you meant him:
 
10:12 PM
@Sofffia you have up? Also, since you couldn't hear it anymore, that would actually have been the best reason to continue watching
 
@Sofffia Who?
 
9 mins ago, by Sofffia
@AndyProwl Try watching from here and see if that bothers you.
 
lol
 
HOLY SHIT
 
> Apologies if the audio sounds like I was in a bathroom. In my defence, I was in a bathroom.
 
10:15 PM
Seriously
 
user1804599
@Sofffia haha
 
Ell
@Sofffia is this the guy that wrote Braid?
 
@Sofffia :DDD
 
@Ell Wrote wat
 
He thinks that captures shouldn't change the type of a lambda.
 
Ell
10:16 PM
@Sofffia Braid. The indie game
It is.
Braid was a big indie hit
 
that guy must be Vlad's dad or something
2
 
Ell
He's not doing much for the reputation of game developers :P
 
@Ell What reputation?
 
I think nothing can be done for the reputation of game developers, judging from what I hear
 
I mean, I would be super terrible at talks and I would probably cry in a corner if forced on a stage in front of more than 4 people, but calling that talk "good" really takes courage.
 
Ell
10:18 PM
@Griwes that game developers are terrible
but he for sure wrote braid
 
@AndyProwl If you have missed the first one I recommend watching. I laughed quite a lot.
Go after the first 25 minutes and start watching from there.
 
lol, I might
 
Ahahahaha he thinks that function types should be std::function, like always.
@Ell Never heard of it.
 
Wait
 
right, variadics are not useful
 
10:19 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Which is acknowledged as something that modernised houses do.
 
templates suck
 
next up
 
std::function ftw
 
@Griwes Wasn't he against templates and STL?
 
Was that "braid" thing a very underground thing?
 
10:19 PM
@AndyProwl That’s a class template.
 
is the talk really that bad?
 
@LucDanton It is, yes
 
@AndyProwl Until the point when it really isn't, because it stops you from inlining the call.
 
@thecoshman Yes, i.e. we do it now, even though we didn't do it 200 years ago
 
10:20 PM
@Griwes I was trying to be sarcastic :P
 
@CatPlusPlus I guess people who've always suffered without mixer taps don't know what the're missing out on.
 
Why are people so bad at programming anyway.
 
pros and cons of course
 
Programming is hard
 
Because programming is hard and people are stupid
 
10:21 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit it's still wasn't done like 50 years ago.
 
I think @Cat is righter here.
 
I'm bad at programming because I need moar brain and time
 
Mostly with the second part.
 
And it's terribly primitive
 
Every time I hear about the Kurds fighting, I can't help but think "wahheyyyy"
 
10:22 PM
@CatPlusPlus I'm not stupid, I just lack the motivation to get past the simplest of problems.
4
 
As in "we need more improvement before making it acceptable".
 
time for Homeland S04E01 yeahhhh
 
@thecoshman I know the feel; but that might be what differentiate stupid people from smart people. :P
 
@AndyProwl I was aware, but when it comes to that (old, almost) argument it’s rarely pointed out that it is somewhat self-defeating (using std::function<Sig> does, in fact, pile on more templates).
So I’d rather put it out in the open regardless.
 
I see
 
10:24 PM
@Rapptz The "Ideas about a new programming language for games." one? Yes.
 
also I don't know if a guy recording himself in his bedroom qualifies as a "talk"
I could certainly give plenty of "talks" like that
 
user1804599
He doesn't even talk.
 
A talk is when a girl, boy or combination of girls and boys talk about a topic.
 
user1804599
It's just shit overflowing and flowing out of his mouth, invoking UB.
 
@AndyProwl Please.
 
10:26 PM
@AndyProwl Don't.
 
Don't worry
 
@Sofffia ?
 
user image
3
So yeah, fuck functions guys.
Who needs them.
 
@AndyProwl I'd be more concerned about the Puppy giving such a talk: "Arithmetic and bit operations don't currently work, but Wide is the most awesome language on earth anyway." Not to pick on him too much though--at least he realizes that Wide isn't ready for real use.
 
@JerryCoffin Will it ever?
 
10:28 PM
@Sofffia "that may wind up getting skipped for some reason." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAJDKSAHKLJDALJSKDAHAHAHAHHAHAA
 
Zoidlang 2387423 will be much better than Wide
 
@JerryCoffin I'd watch a talk on Wide though
 
@Sofffia My knowledge of the past is badly mangled by my crappy memory--but my knowledge of the future is still much worse.
 
I'd enjoy watching talks by loungers actually
 
@AndyProwl It would undoubtedly be interesting, anyway.
 
10:29 PM
@Sofffia he found a job, so probably no
 
@AndyProwl Then make some
 
@Sofffia Wait let me find some excuse for not doing that
Oh yeah
4 mins ago, by Lightness Races in Orbit
@AndyProwl Don't.
 
user image
2
 
@Ligthness told me so!
 
Don't let lightness control your life.
Prefer darkness.
 
10:31 PM
@Sofffia this is not even funny. I have colleagues like that
 
@Sofffia Lol - that exact video was subject of a very long (flamer) thread in my forum
That video is pure shit
 
Some John Karmack (or something like that) apparently said that.
 
> my forum
o.O
 
@Loopunroller What's "your forum"?
 
@sehe Not like that
I mean, the forum i'm moderating in
It's not mine
Anyway, the video is shit.
 
10:32 PM
Link to the flame thread please.
 
functions should be three pages long, because what if you put a few lines in another function and that function gets skipped, somehow?
 
It's german, do you bother?
 
Oh
 
don't let your code get out of sight
 
@Sofffia The point was that a guy that was known to be really competent said this video is good (in some ways), which basically burned his credibility.
 
10:33 PM
I begin thinking that he might be trolling.
 
@Sofffia You know, you tend to do that when someone labels unique_ptr<something> * "the C++ way".
 
Additionally, he was permanently advertising for Rust.
 
> the C++**11** way
 
He was practically wanking about it
 
@Loopunroller Oh, no. This is video #2. Not the first one.
We already mocked the first one.
 
10:36 PM
@Sofffia Haha, alright
Here's the link btw
 
@AndyProwl Depending on the situation, he might have a point here. If you really have a sequence of things to do, and none of it can be broken up into smaller logical pieces, and you always execute all those things together in exactly the same order, then it really can make sense to put them together into a single function that runs through in sequence. That said: the conditions there are so narrow that this is extremely rare.
 
@Xeo my ticket for Essen reads "Herr Robot Martinho Fernandes".
 
@JerryCoffin and all those operations have to be at the same level of abstraction, otherwise it would be hard to argue against extracting at least part of them into a well-named function
 
@Sofffia My god, this guy knows fucking naught about C++.
 
10:38 PM
and personally I've never met a situation where I wouldn't be able to extract a function or a class from a long algorithm
functions should be max. 10 lines long, 6 is good, 4 is ideal (ok now you can flame me)
 
Are you guys dissecting Blow's video about a new language specific for games?
(lol game programming is special)
 
It blows
 
there's a talk #2
 
@AndyProwl IMO, that's covered by the: "and none of it can be broken up into smaller logical pieces".
 
@AndyProwl That's about alright. Though i'd say, 15 max.
 
10:39 PM
Oh wait I already did that
joke reuse
 
@JerryCoffin fair enough
 
Oh. #2 sounds fun.
 
Even more fun.
 
Ell
@catplusplus DRY
 
I like where this is going. Giggedy.
 
10:40 PM
I did #2 today
REPOSITORY          TAG                 IMAGE ID            CREATED             VIRTUAL SIZE
funtoo-base         latest              6c6e46a64aab        2 minutes ago       882.8 MB
Let's rock
 
how does yahoo even make money?
 
@Ell DRY = Dat Rash, Yikes!
 
the site seems pretty worthless
 
With printers.
 
@AaronKyleKilleen he said while entering the room
 
10:41 PM
@Loopunroller 10 is already a lot for me
but I guess it's subjective
 
@AndyProwl No flaming, but I've seen a few cases where (for example) a case statement for a state machine ran quite a bit longer than that, and any attempt at breaking it into pieces was a lot more likely to do harm than good.
 
@Andy I use "one screen" as the hard limit.
 
@AndyProwl ... it probably isn't. Are you splitting everything into pieces? It might be feasible to contact a therapist
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Vertical?
 
for me, max width 100 chars, max length 10 lines. Small functions + good names = win
 
10:42 PM
I mean, a screen put with the longer side on the vertical axis?
 
@Sofffia I like to rant what can I say
 
he didn't know what to say
 
@Loopunroller lol, no, it actually took me time to get used to write code that way
but now I'm addicted
 
@Soffia no, landscape.
 
I like some of the things in that Data-Oriented Design talk at least. They made me think.
> World Modeling is the equivalent of self-help books for programming; trying to engineer by analogy, engineer by storytelling - as opposed to engineering by engineering
^ rings true for some projects I've been in.
 
10:43 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes You are on mobile?
 
oh, I totally misunderstood
 
Yes. I'm going home.
Got off at the right station.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It was inevitable that it would happen eventually.
 
@JerryCoffin Maybe. Although, if there's no breaking through non-empty case labels (which is meh), it should not be hard to refactor a switch using a map, no?
map<int, function<...>>
 
That's just as unreadable.
 
10:46 PM
I just came across a question where the OP is asking about CUDA without even a basic understanding of programming. I actually wonder how people can get into this state... It's like getting on the highway and driving 100mph without knowing what the steering wheel does.
 
Where do the functions go?
 
they can be small separate member functions
 
@Mysticial Natural selection removed those people decades ago.
 
each dealing with its own stuff rather than having everything mixed up into one superfunction
 
@Sofffia Clearly, they still exist today. :)
 
10:47 PM
You can have the functions and the switch.
Separating the map initialisation out makes you a just as long ctor, and move the action away.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes true, that's another option. Keep the switch but extract the bodies of each case
And map initialization can be split up into several functions if this makes sense
so the constructor won't necessarily be long itself in terms of LOC
 
I'd prefer the long switch, though I hate it because the fucking syntax is such a good troll.
 
@AndyProwl I started to try that, but 1) there was no good name for most of the functions, 2) there were several local variables that were used, so I'd have needed to pass/capture them (by reference). 3) even in testing a limited case, it was already slower by a factor of about 3.
Bottom line: I'd have loved to change it, but ended up leaving it alone because even though I pretty much hated the way it was, everything else I tried made it worse.
 
IME the problem with several local variables means there's a class hiding in there that is asking to be extracted. But I'm aware there are exceptions so your situation might be a valid one
for instance if you need max. performance I can imagine some refactorings are ruled out
but that shouldn't be the default I guess
 
@AndyProwl I wouldn't have been bothered by a slowdown of something like 10 or 20%, but 3:1 was pretty tough to justify.
 
10:52 PM
yeah
the problem I have at work is that people defend the "long function" style because "I want to see what's going on" and "effort"
where the former is basically an excuse for the latter
 
Well if local variables is the problem you can make the state machine into a class.
 
Indeed that's also what I suggested
 
But the gains are disputable.
 
for me, unless there's some performance need that simply prevents me from refactoring, anything which makes functions smaller than 10 lines is good. IMO any piece of code larger than 10 lines can be made more readable by extracting and choosing good names
at least that's the rule of thumb
 
> the result of a build should be independent of the underlying host, so you can't mount anything from the host.
ugh dumb
 
Ell
10:58 PM
I fixed my code woop
 

« first day (1451 days earlier)      last day (3496 days later) »