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12:03 AM
Go is to C as Java is to C++.
Won't try Go then.
 
Ell
Meh I hate when a friend breaks a promise -.-
It sucks and makes me feel stupid.
 
Such as? / What happened?
 
Ell
It doesn't matter, I just want say it somewhere
And I don't want to say it to this friend :p
But it was a promise to do an activity
 
I hate it when a future breaks a promise
2
 
@Ell Was is a sexual activity?
 
Ell
12:13 AM
@sofffia no
It was just an activity to do while I visited
Anywhoot.
The point is I'm pissed but I don't know how to express it :P I usually don't express when I'm pissed but this time it seems to be eating away at me
Maybe its because its a little more than pissed.
 
You know you can trust us with your secrets, right?
 
Yeah, trust us
 
Ell
Haha
I only have one secret at the minute
and seeing its a secret and I'm perfectly identifiable on here I'm not going to post it :P
 
@CatPlusPlus It's not with unanimity.
 
12:41 AM
 
ugh
there's this armed nuke in Wasteland 2 in a museum, and you're free to trigger it
when that happens the game over screen essentially says
"You're all dead blah blah, maybe the next generation will do better OH WAIT THERE WON'T BE ONE BECAUSE <premature reveal of big bad final boss, his plot, final enemies and essentially the end story>"
I have never been trolled by a game developer like this
 
I'm worried
 
basically the game spoiled the whole ending for me
 
Ell
@sofff why?
Im pissed and I want to tell the person I'm pissed but idk why
 
@AlexM. good job. Remember, it was a consequence of your action.
@Ell erm. Usually people tell eachother they're pissed because they're, well, you know, pissed.
 
12:49 AM
It's the second time now that, when searching on Google, suggestions are weirdly accurate.
 
You've been assimilated
 
Ell
@sehe but I mean it doesn't achieve anything
 
Like I read Wasteland 2 in here, right? So I went to Google, typed "Was" and it suggested me "Wasteland 2" as first result.
Wtf
 
Ell
It won't make me happier it won't make them happier
So why do I want to do that?
 
You don't know that.
Unless, perhaps, the anger is irrational and the friend can't help it
 
12:50 AM
@Sofffia well what were you expecting?
 
@AlexM. Wasteland, Washington, Was, Wasabi
There are so many things that start with "Was".
 
Wasteland is a pretty popular term to search
 
Ell
Anger usually is irrational I think
 
considering the Kickstarter hype
 
@Ell Because you like your friend(s) to know what makes you (un)happy? Because that enables them to make you less unhappy/more happy - assuming they might want to
 
Ell
12:51 AM
Yeah that's true
 
I think that Google Chrome is analyzing every page I see to gather recent terms and suggest them when I search.
 
maybe
 
Which is scary.
 
well if it makes you feel better
the preview versions (I'm sure it's not just those though) of Windows collect key strokes and send them to Microsoft
 
Night peeps. 2:52am again
 
12:52 AM
for "autocomplete improvements"
 
They are getting TMI
 
damn this game looks good when it tries to
too bad it doesn't try too often
been playing for 12 hours now and only felt the need to take ~5 screenshots
 
You consider that "looks good" for the 2014 standards?
 
only 5 good looking scenes in 12 hours is absurd
@Sofffia yes
that scene above is on par with all of the game's kin
divinity original sin, the new planescape and project eternity
overall, wasteland 2 is still the ugliest of them all
but yeah, it has places where it looks just as good
(it's obviously not Crysis 3 level, if that's what you meant :P)
 
I guess
 
12:59 AM
project eternity looks amazing though
smooth 3D animations on stuff that looks like it was handpainted
it's ToEE all over again
 
I think I ran out of places to apply for jobs :| what now?
 
Wait for the responses?
 
^
 
Ell
@corvid ask them all about it
 
Ask Puppy to throw some at you
 
1:11 AM
I don't like living near MIT :| Everyone hires from MIT, Harvard, BC, and NE almost exclusively
 
1:51 AM
@corvid how much experience do you have?
 
like a year and a half but I'm a new grad
 
hmm
yeah I'm not going to wish my employer on you
although they are probably hiring in our boston office
 
2:23 AM
Perhaps you meant to type "reverse a string c++" into google instead of posting on SO? — Pradhan 2 mins ago
 
 
2 hours later…
4:07 AM
Posting an answer at SO can be a lot like teen-age sex. Ten minutes of fun and then you'll have to support it for the rest of your life. — Hans Passant 12 hours ago
 
Use a condom when on SO, got it.
3
 
you can delete your answer, but you can't kill your children, no matter how horrible they are
 
 
5:10 AM
the night hiker
 
5:41 AM
no backpack?
 
by the look of it, probably have set up the tent nearby already
 
5:58 AM
@GMan is mentioned here.
 
6:57 AM
Badges don't necessarily "encourage" what they're awarded for. E.g. Tumbleweed hardly encourages people to post questions that go unanswered for a long time. — sehe 1 min ago
In other news, my very own filtering proxy (family filter style) filters 'The Definitive C++ Book List' . Did not see that coming.
(yes I'm dogfooding it to see whether it is any good)
 
Xeo
mornin
 
heya, anyone here can help me choosing processor for a laptop ?
 
@ItachiUchiha probably someone could. But maybe those people are more likely to be in another chatroom...
 
7:17 AM
@ArneMertz which one ?
 
Try asking in the room with all the moderators and admins? They've got to be good for something. Maybe they know which room to go to for laptop purchasing advice
 
morning chaps
 
Xeo
Opinions on that?
 
@Xeo inb4 shit
 
Xeo
7:29 AM
Well, I did the obligatory check for "Singleton", and he dismisses it pretty well, but then goes on to "Service Locator" and other things...
 
I think promoting the idea that games are trying to solve problems that require special patterns a bit stupid. Unless he's just trying to show how the common patterns apply to games.
¬_¬ an no, patterns are not bad, it's just bad to apply them rigidly and without consideration.
ah, the latter
> with an emphasis on how they can be applied to game programming.
Yeah, reading shimming the intro stuff it seems 'ok'
 
@Xeo why would clean code and design be something different for game programming than for normal programming?
@ScottW what part of "game programming" is not part of "normal programming"? Are there things that appear only in game programming and nowhere else? I would think that game programming is a subset of normal programming.
@ScottW "Game programming is cool, so usual best practices and rules don't apply and I can write whatever crappy code I want" ?
 
user1804599
7:45 AM
Hola, my Freunden.
 
Then that book confirms that mindset which is a bad idea imo.
 
@ScottW well, I think a good deal of it has to do with scope creep and lack of time put towards refactoring
@ArneMertz From what little I read so far, it seems to be trying to point out how these 'problems' in game programming are not that specific to games, it just that you can't see the generic problem that easily.
Games are also usually short term projects, a few years. That said, I'm working on a ten year old or so code-base and it's so very bad.
 
@thecoshman same here. I don't think the scope creep and lack of time are game-specific problems.
 
I just ran head-on into a portability bug with long integer arithmetics in MSVC vs. the rest of the world. I hate this, because it makes me question so much code I've written :(
 
unsigned long is 32-bits in MSVC.
 
7:56 AM
No big chance of running into it without literals (because I don't actually type my variables as long). It's just that I kinda mentally assume 123ul is gonna be 64 bit.
 
@ArneMertz of course not, but in a project that you think you'll only be working on for a couple years, why spend half of that thinking up and then maintaining a good design, just hack it together? (I think they call this 'exposition'... ie, I'm speaking the thoughts of what others seem to think)
 
Xeo
If you want 64bit, ull is the suffix you're after.
 
@Mysticial This. Should. So. Die.
 
@sehe hint: it's bad :P
 
@Xeo What will it do on GCC/Clang?
 
7:57 AM
@thecoshman each game project builds on the previous one though. They don't throw the code away and start over.
 
Xeo
@sehe Same thing
it's ul that differs between MSVC and GCC/Clang
Though I think bitsize literals would be nice. 123_u64
 
@jalf well true. Not sure if that's better or worse though...
 
@Xeo mmm. ISTR issues MSVC vs. OtherCompilers with that too (in my JSON type variant)
 
I guess it doesn't help that "if it aint broke don't fix it" is pretty compelling :S
> The worst was not failing the job even on unit test case failure - this is not CI and is of no use to the team.
¬_¬ as you can see, whilst they mean well, my work clearly doesn't know what CI actually means.
They seem to have some how equated it to "run tests!!!"
 
@thecoshman the answer is in there... "you think you'll only be working on for a couple years..." but history shows that a) people are working with a codebase longer than they originally thought, and b) even a couple years are enough to feel the pain of crappy code
 
Xeo
8:04 AM
A couple months is more than enough.
 
@ArneMertz both very good points. But both are very hard to get some plebs to really believe.
 
user1804599
Ugh, symlinks with Git don't work on Windows.
 
@thecoshman yeah. And that's not game specific either, sadly...
 
user1804599
It just creates a text file with a path in it.
 
I think it was @sbi who retweeted some brilliantly evil idea. You have students working on a project, then half way through, swap their projects around. Suddenly, they have to work with someone else's code-base to solve some other problem.
@rightføld symlinks are not a windows thing
 
8:06 AM
@thecoshman I like that very much!!
 
You should avoid committing links or shortcuts, especially if you want to cross platform.
 
@thecoshman Windows does have symlinks (you just need special permission to create them)
 
I think I saw an extension that can manage this for you though
 
at least file symlinks. For some reason, you can link to directories just fine
 
@jalf well yes, but linux symlinks are not windows symlinks.
 
8:07 AM
@thecoshman and don't tell them whose project it was before, so it's hard for them to get in contact with the original programmers.
 
@thecoshman what do you mean? Sure, they work on different file systems, and like I said, are handled differently in terms of permissions, but functionally, how do they differ?
 
@ArneMertz even better, have them hand in the projects half way through, then give them a project to finish from the person the previous year :P
@jalf functionally they are the same yes, but AFAIK the data the would be committed about a linux symlink mean nothing when read on Widnows. Just like using a dot prefix to hide folders on linux means nothning special to Windows.
Also, I don't think Windows symlinks can do hard and soft links..
 
@thecoshman you're mean and evil indeed xD
 
well, I guess a normal short cut is more or less a soft link...
@ArneMertz plus that way, you can have them also deal with changing teams. Maybe they need to spread out some more to be smaller teams, maybe they need to combine a bit.
 
@thecoshman oh, and let them solve a problem slightly different from the one the original team had to solve. Moving targets...
 
8:12 AM
maybe have each team pick one other person from the class they want. So your team gets to pull in who they most want, but will also loose someone they have no control over.
@ArneMertz exactly.
basically, for the entire year, make them suffer every bullshit problem you have to deal with IRL.
At least in uni you have to learn to cope with incompetent team members :P
 
@thecoshman no, don't let them pick, and not from the class. Just give them someone from a biology or arts course...
 
lol
 
@thecoshman sure, that's true
@thecoshman it can
 
Well, you let them say who they'd want, like a top three. Then you just see how it plays out. As a lecturer it also helps make it clear who is the better students, because everyone will be after them,
 
(not with shortcuts, with actual symbolic links)
 
8:16 AM
@jalf ok then, I didn't worry too much about it. It was non-trivial so I never bothered learning more.
 
mklink.exe
But yeah, they're nowhere near as commonly used as they are on linux
 
to be fair, it's not often I find I really need them.
they are very hand to have
 
user1804599
Well then.
 
user1804599
Symlinks don't work.
 
user1804599
Then we'll use sys.modules['blablabla'] = otherblablabla.
 
8:21 AM
why can't you just commit the actual file(s)?
> Boss: “Hey, that prototype is great. Can you just spend a few hours cleaning it up a bit now and we’ll call it the real thing?” Answer: "no."
 
@thecoshman IRL that would be "Hey, that prototype is great. Just clean it up a bit this afternoon and we're done." No question "Can you... ?"
 
@ArneMertz erm, no. IF the boss comes to you saying to 'quickly tweak the protoype that is horrible into something you'll support for ages' you have to say no. You have to more or less re-write from scratch, only this time you factor in handling all the problems you glossed over for the prototype as you could control them away.
ok, so that book does actually do a good job of explaining stuff.
@Xeo ^
 
9:05 AM
Anyone here from Paris or goes there often?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Post the real question! :)
 
@jalf To be honest, I think that's reason enough to avoid them.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Also, travel.stackexchange.com
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sure, I was just pointing out their existence :)
 
@sehe Also ull
 
9:11 AM
@VáclavZeman I was in Paris a few times but the last time was 8 years ago. I want to get around but carrying around a map seems kind of silly, what do people use for directions in Paris? I noticed Google Maps doesn't work with metro
 
@Xeo "If you don’t want the base class to take such an active role, you can provide an initialization function to pass it in or use the Service Locator pattern to find it."
Sounds bad.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Last time I was there I used Nokia maps on E52. You do not need much more than to find street names and where they are from your Google map. Then you just use common sense and the metro transport maps to get there.
Really.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, that :s
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Think of it as additional excitement for you to find your way.
 
Also recommends having one Game class singleton that holds everything that would be a singleton otherwise.
 
9:16 AM
@VáclavZeman yeah, I know I can get by without navigation - I've done so successfully the last 3 times I was there. I can probably navigate Paris well enough by foot, I know where stuff is located and I remember it well from last time. I'd just rather not mess with it.
 
As if that made all the rest skip the problems of the singletons.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that sounds bad, also the singleton stuff sounds really bad.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Unless you are there on official business and you need to be at places on time, then what is the problem? Getting lost is part of being a tourist. :)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum It's weird because he goes on at length about how bad singletons are, but then it appears he's just parroting all that and doesn't really understand his own argument.
 
@Xeo It's pretty decent.
 
9:19 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes people have a really hard time with state.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I didn't read it as if he thought Service Locators were a good idea.
 
@VáclavZeman getting lost means I lose time I could be spending enjoying Paris
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Paris Hilton? :p
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Where?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum You need to learn to enjoy getting lost. :)
@BenjaminGruenbaum Getting lost means you have found some place new! :)
 
9:21 AM
I love Paris, although I was there all by myself ...
 
@chmod711telkitty I was there alone as well.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I use my cousin.
It's directions and good company in the same package!
 
@VáclavZeman meh. There is a matter of responsibility. I don't mind wondering the streets and finding new stuff - I just want a backup plan.
 
-#include "../string/lexical_cast.hpp"
+warning: CRLF will be replaced by LF in gears/adl.hpp.
wtf
what kind of diff is this
 
lolwut?
Broken GUI?
Misinterpreting the command-line output?
 
9:24 AM
it's actually through the CLI :(
the actual file doesn't have that obv
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Having a mobile phone with maps is backup good enough, I think.
 
@VáclavZeman if the maps let you navigate that's even better though :D
 
Speaking French also helps.
 
Xeo
ugh, this memory leak is so weeeeeird
I now know what is being leaked, and why it is being leaked - but not how the why comes to be.
Or maybe swap the how and why
 
Hello guys, a novice++ here!
 
Xeo
9:28 AM
either way, it's weiiiiiiird
 
@Xeo what
 
I need some ... something like guidance for my C++ career
 
Changing CRLF to LF makes the diff go back to normal.
weird bug
 
@Rage ok
@Rage Don't do C++
hope that helps
 
Why?
 
9:29 AM
that's another question
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I used a map. ratp.fr (look out for plan, meaning ‘chart’) when it comes to transportation.
 
@Abyx Well, I am not an absolute beginner btw
 
Xeo
If a certain object is removed from the stage, one of its subobjects should get a "removed from stage" event. It doesn't, if a certain other, completely unrelated object, is also removed from the stage in the same frame.
 
@LucDanton yeah, I guess that works in my phone.
 
Xeo
If that certain other object is not removed, the problem-object in question gets the event.
WHYYY
 
9:30 AM
@Abyx I have enough experience of writing small Qt apps on my own
And templates and some STL etc. etc.
 
still you'd better quit writing in C++
 
What are you saying man?
 
I'm saying "quit C++"
 
I am a little serious, so if you could stop joking plz
you mean, this chatroom?
 
Xeo
@Rage so is he
 
9:32 AM
This chatroom, you mean?
I am sorry if I am asking wrong questions here. I am new to chat
 
and to C++, duh
anyways, you asked for a guidance - you got it.
 
@Abyx You're being rude, man.
 
no, not really
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what do you mean, "also"?
 
@Abyx If you think this is the wrong place for me, just tell me.
@Abyx I'll leave right now.
 
9:35 AM
@chmod711telkitty you're sad
@chmod711telkitty and lonely too, then
 
@Rage no, it's not a wrong place
it's just that you want to use a wrong language.
 
@sehe independent you mean?
 
@sehe ull is another option that is less noisy.
 
@sehe also I am very happy, but thanks for caring
 
@Abyx ??? You were rude, not I!
 
9:36 AM
1ul
 
@Rage No one was rude.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I was just weary of what /that/ might do on other platforms. I have bad experiences with ull being required on MSVC but breaking compilation on GCC. I'd have to find out the exact case (it was with JSON variant construction)
 
Well, what I wanted to know is, how much STL is absolutely essential for a C++ programming job?
 
>_<
 
@Rage 7
 
9:39 AM
@sehe 7?
 
Yes. Just enough but not enough to kill you
(inane questions beget inane answers)
 
I once used 8 STL
 
@Rage How long is a piece of string? You should ideally use the features of the language where they're best applied. So knowing as much as possible about those tools is essential I'd say.
 
didn't feel my brain for a week
 
@TheForestAndTheTrees You see, now I am a college student. And they teach crap in college. And they don't even let me spend much of my time for practical programming. So, that's why I wanted to know, how deep I need to go into STL to grab a programming job.
Coz, I want to learn whatever is possible in this less time, but only if it is absolutely essential.
 
9:42 AM
> And they teach crap in college.
how do you know that?
 
zch
For that I'm not sure you even need 1.
 
since you have no idea what's required of you at a job, especially
like, you have no idea what colleges should teach, but you're 100% sure they teach crap
 
@AlexM. Are you a pro? No, I am really asking that
Do, you code for a living?
 
yes
 
@Rage I wouldn't take a job involving C++ where knowledge of the standard library was not essential.
 
9:44 AM
@Rage if your goal is just to get a programming job, you can stop now. The bar is pretty low if you're not picky
 
I see, but I must say, coding is the thing that excites me the most.
 
The thing about good programming jobs is that they're full of people who don't stop learning just because they think "this is good enough for me to get a job"
 
Yes, you're right. I understand. But seeing the compulsion of the college, it's hard for me to let myself too loose in the programming arena.
If I spend too much time coding, I'll get really low grades (education system is really hostile).
 
what's wrong with bad grades
 
zch
What are you studying?
 
9:49 AM
The thing is, companies here will think you are not so bright if you don't have above average grades
I am studying CS engg
 
@Rage not if you can show them some cool coding projects you've done :)
but yeah, don't neglect your studies either.
 
Yes, but my coding projects like GA time table scheduler are not so great, isn't it?
 
well work on that
 
ga = genetic algo
You mean, I should try to optimize it?
 
@Rage every little bit helps. :)
 
9:52 AM
@Rage just stay in college
concentrate on college and that's it
get an entry level job
and build up from there
 
Exactly what I am dreaming of.
 
yeah it won't be hard to get an entry level job, don't worry
 
AFAIK, job teaches you much more than college
isn't it right?
 
which is why you need the job
not the C++ lounge
 
I see. C++ lounge! :D
 
9:53 AM
Contributing to open source projects works too. There are plenty of ways forward :)
 
I'll be leaving soon. Don't worry! ')
 
@Rage dunno. They teach different things. Both are useful (assuming a good job and a good college, anyway)
 
I think there are two kinds of people, those who enjoy and manage to do things without mentors
and those who prefer mentors and go much farther while being mentored
I think you're in the 2nd category
 
¬_¬ yes :p is valid punctuation for work emails.
 
I am a mix of both, i'd say
 
9:55 AM
and you'll manage much more if you follow what college tells you and then start from the bottom at a job
 
@rage despite all you, you're still just a rat in a cage.
 
Xeo
Halp, this bug is making my brain leak.
 
I think there are two kinds of people. The ones who try to rigidly separate people into different "kinds", and the ones who don't. :p
 
@Rage for a college student, you're pretty clueless as to what you have to do to detach yourself from college
 
Coz, most of C++ and Qt I learnt, I did it on my own
 
9:55 AM
you started being a mix of both a bit too late
 
@Xeo try frying it.
are we bashing uni style C++?
 
Xeo
It just makes no sense
like, none at all
 
@thecoshman nope
 
It's actually quite early here in India, guys. The system is oppresive
 
@Xeo go get your rubber duck.
@AlexM. oh ok, maybe next time.
 
9:57 AM
@Rage keep it up then! :)
 
Xeo
I've been rubberducking this shit around the office for the last three (work) days :s
 
@thecoshman this is more about rage trying to rebel against what professors teach
because, as he says, it's crap
 
@Xeo SSCE?
 
Xeo
nope
 
@Xeo get on it then.
 
9:57 AM
@Xeo Make sure you're not reading from the wrong socket.
 
Xeo
@thecoshman Not SSCCE-able
 
Last time I spent three days on a bug, that was it.
 
well, is it at least re-producible?
 
I learned a few useful things in college myself, and I think the most useful bits were...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes aka, you were lost?
 
Xeo
9:58 AM
30 mins ago, by Xeo
I now know what is being leaked, and why it is being leaked - but not how the why comes to be.
 
how to use UNIX stuff
 
@Xeo where is it being leaked from?
 
I learned about grep, sed, awk and everything else in college
I had no idea those existed before
 
@Xeo I assume you have tried running it through Clang's address sanitizer?
 
Xeo
AS3
 
9:59 AM
oh
 
@AlexM. all you need to know about sed and awk is to keep the manual to hand.
 
hahah lolsies
 
also, that sentence makes very little sense to me. Isn't "how the why comes to be" part of the why?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes lolipops?
 
Xeo
@jalf Flip "how" and "why" if you prefer.
 
9:59 AM
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