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12:00 AM
@Borgleader wowzer. so... forward....
 
Ell
@borgleader you can always print one off and put a pinhole it it
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I did watch the 'drunken walk' video. I was conspicuously absent:)
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yes, its a trick I learned in
 
@MartinJames probably because you filmed it, derp
 
@MartinJames All I know is that I repaired my sandals with an USB cable, which I promptly lost some time later.
 
12:01 AM
apparently the compiler for the PSP thing is GCC 4.3
 
TIL Robot pronounces USB "uhzb"
or "oo es bee"
 
And we got weird looks from those people coming from the Black Sabbath concert.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah - I'm pretty sure I was not there on 'footwear failure' night.
 
you es bee for life
 
you sed it pard nuh
 
12:03 AM
@MartinJames That's a good way to describe your state.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fuck me, that was magic. BS fans looking DOWN on us Loungers!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Hmm, actually I pronounce it correctly. "an" was a mistake.
 
Ell
It sounds like I missed out
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not sure whether disappointed or disappointed
 
Ell
I'm jelly
 
12:06 AM
@Ell You did. The train was full of BS heavy-metallers and the Lounge contingent totally freaked 'em, throwing around bottles of brandy.
 
Ell
Ahh well. I'll be able to come to Berlin this year Hopefully
Or will definitely be able to do it in the UK
 
@MartinJames I'd be pretty freaked too. Abusing perfectly good alcohol like that.
 
@JerryCoffin It was a good night, there was much alcohol abuse.
 
@MartinJames Drinking excessively one thing. Abusing poor, defenseless alcohol is quite another.
 
We should have gone to the BS concert, but I missed that it was on.
OK, dead now. Bye!
 
12:12 AM
@MartinJames A Dead concert? Lucky you!
 
TIL about:
High-altitude nuclear explosions (HANE) have historically been nuclear explosions which take place above altitudes of 30 km, still inside the Earth's atmosphere. Such explosions have been tests of nuclear weapons, used to determine the effects of the blast and radiation in the exoatmospheric environment. The highest was at an altitude of 540 km (335.5 mi). The only nations to detonate nuclear weapons in outer space are the United States and the Soviet Union. The U.S. program began in 1958 with the Hardtack Teak and Hardtack Orange shots, both 3.8 megatons. These warheads were initially carried...
And that Zankyou no Terror turned out to be a fine anime.
 
Just realized I'm in the 84th spot for "most answers on SO". Of course @JerryCoffin is nearing twice as many and trails the top-32
 
@sehe wow
@Borgleader lol, the look on his face
 
Ell
I might take another break from the lounge
I think it was good for me, my last one
 
It's probably good if you have a goal. And it appears you could use some context with the real world Nah. That's a bit flippant.
I should get a life myself
 
12:24 AM
I think I need a break too.
 
@sehe I found one on sale once and thought about getting it, but couldn't figure out what I'd do with it... :-)
 
... after 641 consecutive days in this place.
Since december 2012 holy christ what am i doing with my life
 
@Sofffia You've been here every day for that long, and still claim you have a life? How...quaint.
 
How do you kill, that which has no life?
 
@Borgleader Who are you calling "that which has no life?"
 
Ell
12:28 AM
@soff no way have you been here that long?
I see you as a noob to the room for some reason :P
 
Ell
How many have I?
 
check your profile
 
I began being active every day only when I met this room
Also I've changed names a lot of times.
 
Ell
2010-10-17 was when I started
4 years almost
Two days after loungecpp opened
 
12:33 AM
nice
 
Ell
Probably wasn't regular then
 
@Ell The ads claim a little laxative will fix that right up.
 
Fuck, I just mistyped "professor" as "processor". Maybe this computer thing isn't good for me.
 
@Mysticial Probably learned more from the computer anyway...
 
Ell
@jerry or some hormones, depending on how one interprets that sentence
Estrogen or progesterone in particular
 
12:36 AM
@Ell I suppose, but you know I'd never say anything that could be construed as sexual.
 
Ell
@jerry of course not! That's why you ask for virgins instead of experienced girls!
 
@Ell ...but I'm always clear that their sexual experience (or lack thereof) is irrelevant.
 
Ell
Exactly :D
 
didn't know @robor made a cameo in columbo
 
Ell
12:56 AM
It's time for me to sleep
Night
 
@Ell G'night.
 
1:23 AM
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
meanwhile the whole article is basically an Indian guy getting a boner about the fact that the ladies in mission control wear colourful saris
anyway the real problem is the use of the word "clicked" for "took a photograph". get that off my BBC plzkthx!
 
code from competition sites like SPOJ, PE, topcoder seems so bad
 
meanwhile, I feel like starting a petition to get the BBC to apologise for its part in the Western propaganda campaign last year, whereby all the Syrian rebels were deemed freedom fighters and Assad's nomenclature "they are 'terrorists'" was always accompanied by incredulous quotation marks (notice how it turned out to be completely true and we are now paying the price for every State institution who made this arrogant, knee-jerk misinterpretation)... but I don't know how to phrase it.
 
Does anyone recognize this problem statement? "Task: Copy the contents of boolean variables h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 to l1, l2, l3, l4, l5, l6, respectively."
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Well, there are poor areas. In those areas there are automatic guns. The automatic guns creates the hierarchy. Now Obama decided with a few $millions to export a few more automatics into the region.
 
1:42 AM
disabled robot?
 
2:13 AM
user image
8
lol this is the coolest example of correlation does not imply causation
 
:P
@Rapptz I have doubts on that.
Good morning.
I mean, it could all be true!
 
 
2:47 AM
that's the one we used when I was in school
so I know that one is fucking ancient
 
@Rapptz Are you sure it isn't causation?
 
I had written this line of code today
template<typename T, template<typename...> class Concept, template<typename...> class... Concepts>
I simplified it
no need for those pesky template<typename...>s
 
3:30 AM
so profound ...
 
4:04 AM
 
4:15 AM
I ordered iphone6, I am such an idiot
9
better get this Android app done soon
 
4:36 AM
@Rapptz Not much change--still not nearly enough pirates to reduce the global temperature noticeably.
 
Piracy is so totally hooot
 
5:19 AM
Morning.
 
5:50 AM
P.S: This answer is from the person who originally discovered the bug :) — Ramesh 15 hours ago
Whoah.
 
Home field advantage.
 
Wish I could vote. Too lazy (and useless) to create an account.
 
9
Q: Why does GCC implement isnan() more efficiently for C++ <cmath> than C <math.h>?

John ZwinckHere's my code: int f(double x) { return isnan(x); } If I #include <cmath> I get this assembly: xorl %eax, %eax ucomisd %xmm0, %xmm0 setp %al This is reasonably clever: ucomisd sets the parity flag if the comparison of x with itself is unordered, meaning x is NAN. Then setp copies ...

^^ woah wtf
 
lol
 
C++ confirmed imba
> Are people really expected to use __builtin_isnan(), and if so, why?
I'm pretty sure the standard library just delegates it over
with forced inline
  constexpr bool
  isnan(double __x)
  { return __builtin_isnan(__x); }
lmao
no way
only C++ uses __builtin functions
the C headers don't
 
6:06 AM
I'm still trying to find those files.
 
you're too slow :p
 
There doesn't seem to be anything online that lets me browse GCC's header files.
 
It’s a good time to mention the libstdc++ people and glibc people don’t have that much overlap, unless I’m mistaken.
@Mysticial You can peruse the source, if you feel so inclined. It’s a bit tricky to navigate though…
 
damn, there's no search
 
#define isnan(x) (sizeof (x) == sizeof (float) ? __isnanf (x)	\
  : sizeof (x) == sizeof (double) ? __isnan (x)	\
  : __isnanl (x))
this is kind of clever
but it feels like a terrible idea at the same time
oh wait what
 
6:10 AM
That must surely generate helpful errors, should you pass a wrong argument.
 
C requires isnan to be a macro rather than a function
 
@Rapptz The C-way of solving: make isnanf and isnand or some other ad-hoc "overloading".
 
@Rapptz wut?
 
7.12 of C99 standard
all the is* functions are macros
 
Presumably due to lack of overloading.
 
6:12 AM
And it can't be a macro to define it to a built-in?
 
I see no reason why it can't use it
it is kind of weird that cmath uses __builtin_* stuff
also cool
they have an SFINAE template overload for isnan for integer types
is that standard conforming?
 
Integral -> floating point conversions.
 
@Rapptz And it just returns false?
 
yeah it just returns false
I guess it's an optimisation to avoid the conversion
 
And also avoiding useless work.
 
6:25 AM
yup
 
Silly Javascript question in the top of the related list:
70
Q: Why does isNaN(" ") equal false

IVR AvengerI have a quick question (I hope!). In JS, why does isNaN(" ") evaluate to false, but isNaN(" x") evaluate to true? I'm performing numerical operations on a text input field, and am checking if the field is null, "", or NaN. When someone types a handful of spaces into the field, my validatio...

 
lol
 
I guess isNaN is quite deceptive.
I mean, a string is surely not a number.
 
5
Q: Is Number.IsNaN() more broken than isNaN()

PhillSoooooo isNaN is apparently broken in JavaScript, with things like: isNaN('') isNaN(' ') isNaN(true) isNaN(false) isNaN([0]) Returning false, when they appear to all be... Not a Number... In ECMAScript 6, the draft includes a new Number.isNaN but it looks like (imo) that this is also broken...

 
6:27 AM
@Rapptz s/isNaN/JavaScript/
 
Btw @LucDanton I was working on concepts again
I'm not sure I quite like my approach.
I thought it was clever for basic things
but when it came to refining and binary/n-ary concepts it became kind of weird
it prints nice errors though
 
So bad things happen if you pass x++ into isnan() in C.
 
yup
 
auto x = new auto('a');   // just found this jewel in the standard :)
5
 
In the nauto paper? ;)
 
6:34 AM
@Rapptz I think you’ve put me into a programming mood.
 
IOW, if you're having trouble having a kid, try passing x++ into isnan() in C because the ape says that UB can get you pregnant.
 
fuck
I forgot a > and I got another 16 MB of errors
 
@FredOverflow Just checked. WTF is that? Is that in C++11?
 
C++14 probably.
 
@LucDanton The code is here. I don't know how I feel. It's kind of shorter I guess.
@MarkGarcia C++11.
 
6:37 AM
I checked n3936.
@Rapptz Never knew.
 
it works in C++11.
 
Me neither, that's why I posted it here :)
 
we talked about it a few months back when making auto jokes
Feb 2 at 11:25, by Rapptz
e.g. new auto(1) is the same as new int(1)
 
auto mobile = new auto(new auto(new auto(42)));   // this also compiles :)
 
@Rapptz Don’t like how Niebler splits valid expressions from other requirements?
 
6:40 AM
Damnit, now I have said the word "auto" so many times in my brain that it sounds kinda stupid.
 
yeah
 
You know when that happens with a word?
 
that's called semantic satiation
 
Why not mimic ConceptsLite?
 
which part?
 
6:43 AM
It’s a bit of bikeshedding, bear with me (copy-pasting is awful).
template<typename T>
concept bool R() {
    return requires (T i) {
        typename A<T>;
        {*i} -> const A<T>&;
    };
}
 
what does line 4 mean?
typename A<T>;
 
Which we have to write static auto foo(T i) -> …. For starters, we could drop the static.
> typename Related<T>; // Required alias
Good question…
I wanted that one instead:
> typename T::inner; // Required nested type name
auto requires(T&& a, U&& b) -> clauses<…>?
The only ‘pun’ I can think of is auto requires(T&& x) -> that<…>, but I think it’s awful.
 
typename T::inner works out of the box I think
well.. no it doesn't
because of T&&
but turning it to T x should make it work
 
Yup, although correct me if I’m wrong but that implies move construction.
Related<T> would work though, assuming that alias can handle references ;)
 
could use const T& x instead of T&& x
 
6:50 AM
And so my point is, I’d rathes have stuff like -> clauses<typename_<Alias<T>>, valid<decltype( t++ ), …>
 
that wouldn't imply move construction would it?
 
rather than a ‘clever’ clauses that guesses whether a requirement is a valid expr req., or an associated type req. and so on.
@Rapptz No, you can always form and pass references. No dirty hack possible.
 
I thought it was clever :(
 
Well, it is. And that’s not the kind of feature I like :)
 
lol
I agree with what you said
I have a couple of questions though
How would you do "refines"?
I'm actually having a surprisingly hard time with this
this is where niebler introduced his hack-ish placeholders
thinking about refining made me wonder why I bothered with struct Concept { template<typename T> auto require(T&&) -> ...; }; instead of moving the template to the class itself, i.e. template<typename T> struct Concept;
but SFINAE and everything and blah :(
 
6:55 AM
requires(T&& t, auto _ = super_requires<T>()) -> …?
Oh we want good diagnostics. Let’s not use that one then.
 
yeah that was the biggest issue
admittedly I wasn't sure how niebler's diagnostics are
 
-> refines<Foo<T>, Bar<T>, clauses<…>>? (I.e. all the super concepts come first, new clauses last.)
That means clauses (and in turn refines) cannot be a trait alias, for diagnostic purposes.
 
with the current definition, it'd be concept_to_trait<Foo, T> which is admittedly a bit noisy.
 
Don’t you need such a thing anyway? How do clients of concepts (e.g. constrained functions) use them?
 
5 mins ago, by Rapptz
thinking about refining made me wonder why I bothered with struct Concept { template<typename T> auto require(T&&) -> ...; }; instead of moving the template to the class itself, i.e. template<typename T> struct Concept;
 
7:00 AM
I think I like clauses<refinements<Foo<T>, Bar<T>>, …> better.
Good point.
 
atm the current way to assert is require<T, Concepts...>() but it doesn't scale very well
 
Stupid idea: template<typename T> struct Numeric { template<typename X> auto requires(X x) -> … };, then Constraints<Numeric<T>> ‘finds’ T and does the right thing.
… struct constraints_impl<Concept<Ts...>>: concept_to_trait<Concept, Ts...> {}; if you will.
 
hm
 
brb time to boot the dev system :)
 
7:09 AM
@rubenvb Well, they didn’t exist at the time. Who’s willing to OCR and proof-‘read’ that? :)
 
@rubenvb Dammit I can't stop laughing at those review quote bubbles!
 
For those of you who enjoyed my post an hour ago on isnan() optimization, here's another one: stackoverflow.com/questions/26053934/…
0
Q: Is it feasible to add this optimization to GCC?

John ZwinckHere's my code: int f(double x, double y) { return std::isnan(x) || std::isnan(y); } If you're using C instead of C++, just replace std:: with __builtin_ (don't simply remove std::, for reasons shown here: Why does GCC implement isnan() more efficiently for C++ <cmath> than C <math.h>?). He...

 
> In addition to being available in book form, one could also order the digits on a series of punched cards.
Close enough!
 
lol
 
the diagnostics of Niebler-like concepts don't seem that stellar compared to the old way of doing it
 
user1804599
7:18 AM
> The RAND Corporation
 
I’m wondering if you can improve diagnostics by going template<typename checking, …> bool check() { static_assert( checking(), "Check failed" ); return true; }, so that you get checking = Concept<T, A, B, C> in the instantiation stack.
 
wouldn't that disallow the ability to use concepts as traits for SFINAE friendly situations or overloading?
 
s/check/diagnose/ if you will
I already do Concept::check() when I get ‘no overload found’ errors to help pinpoint the exact failure.
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
user1804599
Should I use the same operators for integer operations and floating point operations? :v
 
7:24 AM
yes
 
@rightfold no, use different, obscure operators for floats
In all seriousness, the only one you really need is integer division.
like Python3
 
I guess you could do template<typename T> static bool refines() { return requires<T, Concepts...>(); } as a static member function?
 
user1804599
I will use the same for integers as for rational numbers.
 
and then check for the existence of said static member function on my side
or is that too clever?
 
Now I’m wondering if I can trigger a diagnostic by injecting dummy values. I.e. constrained_function(diagnose(x)) performs the constraint check as if constrained_function(x) was done, but hard error instead of SFINAE.
@Rapptz I’ll think about it. Sounds promising though.
Although you’d want auto refines(T&& t) -> parents<Foo<T>, Bar<T>>; no? :)
 
7:31 AM
yeah
 
coffee time
 
user1804599
WTF JIRA why the fuck does your search form do a fucking POST request.
 
7:47 AM
@rightfold Because Enterprise Quality Software.
 
huh libressl development seems to have come to a halt...
 
user1804599
 
So someone posted a piece of our internal library on Roflcopter. Nice. (I am half sure this piece of the library was updated to actually use atomic builtins some time ago.)
 
8:06 AM
Niebler's 'function' way of doing things fails if the thing returns void lol
 
‘Function’?
 
like concepts::has_type<T&>(*t++) would fail if it returned void
 
That’s good, no?
 
or come to think about it, concepts::valid_expr too
iunno is it?
heyo
 
For valid expressions you have decltype handling void. For the rest (associated types, …) I don’t expect void to make sense.
 
8:09 AM
well consider checking what *t++ returns
 
It is true that for checking valid expression types you need something like valid_with_type<Expected, decltype( *t++ )>.
 
with niebler's way of doing it, if evil client returns void wouldn't that be bad?
@LucDanton That's how I currently do it
 
The counterpart to ConceptsLite { expr } -> T IIRC. Would make sense to have valid<decltype( expr ), T> then ;)
 
not sure if it should delegate to std::is_convertible or std::is_same
 
@Rapptz I believe CL has syntax for both, as they are each very desirable.
Looking it up.
 
8:13 AM
@ScottW nice
what OS?
 
Actually the only thing available are (implicit) conversions. I’m thinking this is incomplete.
E.g. for smart pointers you would want explicit { p } -> bool, not just { p } -> bool.
 
that is surprisingly terrible
 
IIRC there were bikeshed discussions suggesting something akin to { expr } = T for exact matches.
 
so would explicit { p } -> bool be std::is_same?
 
@Rapptz No, constructability/explicit or contextual conversions.
 
8:17 AM
meh, I don't like it
 
Also now that I think about it I’d rather have expr<decltype( foo )> than valid<decltype( foo )>.
@Rapptz We’ll paint it red then ;)
In Mr. Sutton’s defense, the latest paper is supposed to be n4062, but it got lost so I’m going by n4040. Maybe that paper addresses those issues.
 
thoughts on
using refines = std::tuple<Concepts...>?
 
Better than (ab)using a function. Although I still think clauses<refines<…>, …> is just as appealing an option.
 
not sure if this is abuse of std::tuple lol
 
Well I would be using a typelist.
 
8:20 AM
std::tuple tends to be a poor man's typelist
my main problem with clauses<refines<...>, ...> is that I can't think of an obvious way of extracting the refinements
a typedef or function is easy to check existence of
 
@Rapptz Oh, I still want the requires(T&& t) -> stuff; thing to happen in two stages.
The first stage is that things like expr<decltype( *t++ )> and type<Alias<T>> will trigger SFINAE where applicable.
The second stage is that everything else is collected as-is, and then it is processed!
So stuff is not an alias for true_type.
A benefit of processing it later is for shaping a good diagnostic.
 
I don't know :s
 
Sorry, I’d start writing up a PoC but I have other stuff in the pipeline I’m handling first.
 
I think I can make the diagnostic pretty without resorting to that.
I'm close already
I think..
 
Well, strictly speaking we can have clauses do the processing, while refines does nothing at all. Then clauses receives the full list.
IOW have clauses be a conjunction of all the, well, clauses; be they valid expression clauses, refinement clauses, associated type clauses etc.
Makes sense?
 
8:33 AM
I find appeal in having to write
static auto require(T&& t) -> expr<decltype(++t), decltype(t++)>; vs -> clauses<expr<...>>;
What do you consider 'good' diagnostics?
 
Honestly I think it’s fine if we talk between us using a ‘concept assembly’ of sorts, while still being free to use as many clever helpers as we care to. E.g. the whole { expr } vs { expr } -> T (and even { expr } = T) stuff, having one overloaded expr<decltype( foo )> vs expr<decltype( foo ), T> (and then how do you go about exact matches?) is too clever again. So I would like to discuss using valid_expr and convertible_expr, even though I understand that practically speaking a
clever expr to handle both makes sense.
@Rapptz Pinpoint the first broken requirement, although that’s begging to define ‘first’. And that’s an interesting question ;) Pinpoint meaning it’s obvious which concept was broken for which arguments (e.g. foo being not movable).
 
Would function backtraces make that ugly?
I feel like that's hard to avoid
 
No such thing in GCC diagnostics I believe.
 
I mean things like
in function x() [with T = ... ]
in function y() [with T= ... ]
static assertion failed: msg
 
Yeah that’s instantiation stack.
When I do stuff like for_each(some_tuple, [](auto a) { some_constrained_function(a); }) it’s expected there is a stack btw. I want a good diagnostic to help me figure out whether it is an instantiation of the constrained function, or of for_each that led to an error.
@Rapptz Let’s call that one the clever clauses or expr or whichever. I.e. a clauses<decltype( foo ), Foo<T>> that’s equivalent to a not-so-clever clauses<valid_expr<decltype(…)>, refines<Foo<T>>>.
 
user1804599
8:49 AM
@Rapptz There should be syntax highlighting IMO.
 
I care about discipline in that kind of metaprogramming because when clever things go wrong, debugging is nightmarish. Putting everything inside refines<>, valid_expr<> and so on is slapping a type-system on top of what is essentially dynamic typing with duck typing.
 
user1804599
clang highlights differences between template parameters in type mismatch errors but that's not enough. :v
 
I fail to see the relevance lol
 
user1804599
Both are about diagnostics.
 
9:17 AM
ok, does anyone know what the second part of the following paragraph is talking about:
The excavation is usually done larger than the proposed house to allow for landscaping, paths, driveways and to allow the external finish around the slab to fall not less than 50mm away from the building for the first 1.0m
 
I’m in template template hell.
 
Me too.
I don't know how I got myself into this mess
 
sup nibblets
 
It was either that or MPL-style lambdas (ya know, the placeholder mess) when it came to mapping over typelists etc. :(
 
9:25 AM
how do I SFINAE a struct with variadic templates
like.. the variadic template version of this
template<typename T, typename = void>
struct stuff {};

template<typename T>
struct stuff<T, /* enable */> {};
 
Assuming a class template, partial spec is the way. You have to leave variadic packs at the end.
 
It's 5:30 AM and I can't remember how I did this
 
So go with template<typename Sfinae, typename... Pack> struct stuff_impl; if that’s what you want to do.
 
ah shit
 
Then stuff_impl<Void<…>, …blarg…> specs.
 
9:27 AM
so messy
 
Bikeshed time: InvokeOrElse<Foo, void volatile*> results in typename Foo::type unless it SFINAEs out, resorting to void volatile*. Better names (e.g. not as threatening)?
 
type_or
 
I’m not keen to rename my preexisting Invoke to Type or similar, too misleading.
 
well, in your case it'd be invoke_or or whatever :p
I'm modelling it after value_or which does something similar.
 
Good enough. Well, I’m underselling it. So simply ‘good’.
 
9:32 AM
@LucDanton too?
 
Morning snowflakes
 
hoy.
 
@LucDanton InvokeOr?
 
user image
6
 
The 4chan guy strikes again
 
9:34 AM
@Sofffia lol
 
@Sofffia jesus
 
Ell
@Sofffia I really don't know how people get it so wrong
 
They don't care.
 
Ell
But they must be trying to be bad :L
 
@Ell It's called the "bash bug" hence "bug called bash".
 
Ell
9:37 AM
I thought it was called Shell Shock
 
Sherlock
 
@Cicada Ah yeah. Reminds me of this great video
obviously old, but still worth a chuckle
 
@Rapptz Needs some kind of electro/disco remix
> Study reveals humans and Nicki Minaj share 99% of their genome
 
man
variadic class template and SFINAE is just an all around PITA
 
Ell
9:55 AM
Okay. So my source file includes a class template, makes an instance of it, and calls a method on it. The template is written all in the include file
so why would there be undefined symbols if it compiles fine and isn't linking with any libraries?
 
@Rapptz Nice
 
Ell
                 U J::Method<int> J::Ref::m<int>(std::string, std::string)
0000000000001220 T J::Ref::Ref(JNIEnv_*, _jobject*)
00000000000012c0 T J::Ref::~Ref()
0000000000001770 W J::detail::MethodCall<int>::call(JNIEnv_*, _jmethodID*, J::Ref)
0000000000001730 W J::Method<int>::~Method()
 
DDoS?
 
lol - just seen the Apple mechanical design issue referred to as 'bendgate'.
 

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