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10:03 AM
@Ell Your class template contains a function template? Is that function template also defined everywhere?
 
Ell
@VáclavZeman J::Method is just a class template and doesn't contain any function templates :/
 
@Ell What is the m<int>(..)?
 
Ell
@VáclavZeman Ahh sorry yes. J::Ref is a class, J::Ref::m is a function template yes
which is defined in the source file Ref.cpp
 
@Ell Well, you have to have the function template definition in the headers instead.
 
Ell
even though I'm compiling Ref.cpp?
 
10:07 AM
@Ell Well, unless Ref.cpp is the sole user of the function then yes, everywhere.
 
Ell
Man idk how to do that. Ref::m returns a Method (which is a template) and Method::operator() takes a Ref
Method::operator() can't operate on an incomplete type but nor can Ref::m
 
@Rapptz My new plan: passing around (incomplete) computations (e.g. pass blah<map<foo, seq>> instead of blah<map, foo, seq>, while specs match on both template<typename...> class and template<template<typename...> class, typename...> class. Let’s see how far that goes.
 
> Ryse: Son of Rome won't have microtransactions on the PC
haha, I guess Crytek really needs to get the PC crowd to love their game
I wonder if they'd go bankrupt if the Ryse on PC plan failed
 
Ell
@VáclavZeman I don't understand why this is so? Surely if I'm defining the symbol in a source file, it shouldn't be undefined
 
@Ell It is a template of a symbol, not a symbol, unless it gets instantiated.
@Ell It does not get instantiated unless it is defined in the same TU where it is used.
This is like C++ Templates 101.
 
Ell
10:15 AM
@VáclavZeman I know :/ I'm rusty okay? :P
 
Oh wait, I think I used to do just that a long time ago, and I gave up on it. Fine, I’ll confine it to just the one module then.
 
Do what?
 
Ell
Okay it works now
@VáclavZeman Thanks. I don't know why I was struggling with that for so long
I've returned to my former noob state it seems
 
@Rapptz Use only typename as the template kind (in primary templates).
@Rapptz Yeah as I recall I used to do it like MPL: Map<is_same<Arg1, int>, list<double, int, long>>. I’m not going back to that though.
 
dang
the function requires<T, Concepts...> produces way nicer diagnostics than the struct one
:<
 
10:26 AM
I’m not sure where a struct comes into play here.
 
was writing one to allow things like
template<typename T, typename = Requires<T, Concepts...>>
dev.cpp: In instantiation of 'constexpr bool require() [with T = failure; Concept = NullablePointer; Other = {Iteratable}]':
dev.cpp:181:51:   required from here
dev.cpp:91:5: error: static assertion failed: Concept violation
     static_assert(concept_result{}, "Concept violation");
     ^
dev.cpp: In instantiation of 'constexpr bool require() [with T = failure; Concept = Iteratable; Other = {}]':
dev.cpp:92:85:   required from 'constexpr bool require() [with T = failure; Concept = NullablePointer; Other = {Iteratable}]'
but I like these errors
 
Yeah this is the kind of diagnostics I want. (And have atm.)
 
Don't violate my concepts.
@StackedCrooked that's right
people are used to being imprecise
stupid people, that is
 
@LucDanton How do you replicate it using a struct? If you have.
 
Not there yet. Also I have no idea about the implementation, how come template class specs are that big a deal?
 
10:34 AM
what if you have a template class that needs concept checking?
you'd have to make a dummy bool/whatever value using a function
 
I don’t normally put (soft) constraints on class templates. Much more inclined to encode requirements as assertions.
 
Can't upvote this enough. Every word is spot on. — Lightness Races in Orbit 31 secs ago
 
Ah.. I guess. Admittedly, I've never had a use for it but I figured I might in the future.
 
Constraining a class template would mean choosing between specializations (like constraining a function template means choosing between overloads). Doesn’t happen often.
Doesn’t a template<typename T, enabled...> struct constrained; primary template make sense though? Then you have constrained<T, Foo<T>...> specs.
Mmmh actually I’m not sure function vs class templates really follow the same rules. Right, overloads are different from specs :(
 
linkedin = new phishing site?
2nd time I received something similar to this from linkedin site ...
You would have thought after a while scammer would come up with something newer and more original. Nope, they just find newer site to scam people ...
 
10:49 AM
nuclear family
 
lol
personal accountant to one engineer ...
 
@chmod711telkitty lol?!
 
yeah, soon linkedin will become a phishing site ... a bit like reddit but more 'professional', lol
 
facebook?
 
nuclear family lol
neat, I'm getting a free game with my card
> Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel!
I never played borderlands
but free stuff is always good
 
Ell
10:56 AM
Hmm. Why is an object that has been moved out of still destructed?
 
user1804599
I tried to find @LightnessRacesinOrbit on en.akinator.com but it suggested Dynamo.
 
@Ell Moving is a mutable copy, in a sense. So what’s been moved from is still an actual, living object which will expire when it has to. Another way to see it is that moves are not tracked by the type system (consider: foo f; if(cond) f = std::move(source); else f = source;).
 
Ell
@LucDanton Yeah that makes sense
My Ref classes copy and move ctor are the same at the minute. It just doesn't look right or feel right
they do NewGlobalRef on construct and DeleteGlobalRef on destruct
which are calls that keep JVM objects alive
 
11:12 AM
If your copy is the same as move then it probably should be deleted
Moving shouldn't increment refcount
 
Ell
Does that mean I just have to keep track of whether the object has been moved out of or not? and if it has don't decrement refcount on destruction?
 
@CatPlusPlus Well, no. The reasonable thing to do would be to dispense with defining the move special members (leaving the copy special members to perform their duties in their place).
@Ell Hard to tell with just what you’ve told us.
 
Ell
@LucDanton yeah. I think I'll think about it over this weekend and come back to ask for help if I need it
 
user3010322
Well, in C++ land a moved-out object is still technically a valid object.
 
Ell
I need a refresh on move semantics
 
user3010322
11:15 AM
That is, it can still be destructed.
 
It must be valid
 
valid but unspecified state :p
 
Not "technically"
 
user1804599
It must be untechnically valid.
 
Ell
I guess an empty unique ptr is a valid state
 
11:16 AM
Your movable types probably want an empty state!
 
user3010322
I think when it's moved out, you should DeleteGlobalRef on it (only after doing NewGlobalRef on the internals of the new one).
 
Ell
Then I can throw my very own NullPtrException ;)
 
user3010322
Then you nullify any data or associated stuff and let a null check handle things gracefully in the destructor.
 
It doesn't need to be an exposed state
 
let's not confuse the old java with the new C++
 
11:18 AM
People shouldn't expect to be able to use moved-from objects, it just needs to be destructed sanely
Also generate bindings
 
Ell
I generate bindings
but it's still a C interface
although this does exist: code.google.com/p/bridj
 
user1804599
> call C, C++, Objective-C, C#...
 
user1804599
But it doesn't mention C# anywhere else on that page, lol.
 
Ell
I'm doing it for fun anyway
that's an excuse to write anything I want to, isn't it? :P
 
also Emilia Clarke on the front page of that first site yay
 
11:28 AM
C++11 was allowed in Chromium - chromium-cpp.appspot.com
and constexpr isn't allowed because of VC++ =(
 
user1804599
whaha exceptions are banned
 
they always were
 
oh is_convertible does implicit conversion not explicit ones
 
user1804599
@Rapptz terrible
 
user1804599
Something that is explicitly convertible is also convertible. :v
 
11:33 AM
yeah..
 
@Abyx trust me it's REALLY annoying that vc++ doesn't have noexcept and constexpr
 
user1804599
template<typename... Ts>
using is_implicitly_convertible = is_convertible<Ts...>;
 
@Mgetz yeah I also have to use it =\
 
user1804599
#if msvc
#define noexcept throw()
#define constexpr const
#endif
 
> Doesn't work in MSVS2013.
 
user1804599
11:34 AM
:D :D :D
 
cplusplus.txt
 
> Trailing return types are permitted only in lambda expressions.
Go home, Google, you are drunk.
 
@Rapptz std::is_constructible being the other (beware that arguments are flipped though :< ).
 
user1804599
@Griwes Makes perfect sense.
 
user1804599
Why would you use them in non-lambdas?
 
11:35 AM
apparently flipping it works too
2
A: check if type can be explicitly converted

Mike KinghanYour test set is at an off-site link and has varied since your original post, so I will copy verbatim the test-set I am talking about here: static_assert(is_explicitly_convertible< double, double >::value, "1"); static_assert(is_explicitly_convertible< double &, double >::value, "2"); static_ass...

 
@rightfold SFINAE. :P
 
user1804599
Be a rebel and do it anyway!
 
> Therefore this paper recommends to remove the is_explicitly_convertible from the working draft. This should do no harm now, because nothing depends on that special definition yet.And if it turns out, that the trait would still be useful, it could be added in another revision of the standard.
RIP
 
user1804599
> {% trans %}Gender{% endtrans %}
 
Ell
@rightfold you need them before c++14 don't you?
 
user1804599
11:37 AM
Yes.
 
user1804599
But fuck "before C++14"
 
I’m fairly sure that all mentions of explicit or contextual conversions in the Standard are phrased in terms of direct non-list construction anyway, I see nothing inappropriate with leaving std::is_constructible to do the job. The real fix is deprecating is_convertible in favour of is_convertible_from and is_convertible_to.
 
doesn't change the fact that std::is_convertible should check both implicit and explicit conversions rather than half-assing the job
:<
 
user1804599
Yeah.
 
@rightfold auto foo(X x) -> decltype(x.f()) { return x.f(); } , no?
 
11:40 AM
expression SFINAE too stronk
 
user1804599
Like userdata should represent userdata and not something that allows creation of and calling methods on userdata.
 
I see your point. I’m rather after concepts rather than primitive traits so I’m not too taken with the idea (i.e. I don’t care about pathological cases, and I only care about a ConvertibleFrom as a refinement of Constructible). That’s not to say that such primitives are undesirable.
In that exact vein, how do you feel about copyable but non-movable types?
 
I am indifferent.
 
You want is_convertible to perform is_constructible as well, but don’t care about is_copy_* performing is_move_*? Kinda hypocritical, no?
 
fuck chat search.
 
11:43 AM
oh
you mean that
I don't like that either
 
Didn’t I state my position backwards? Ah fuck that, too much to do right now. tl;dr wru concepts
 
yeah it's backwards but I understood
 
@LucDanton copy-constructible implies move-constructible
 
Xeo
@Rapptz Huh?
 
what's to 'huh?' about?
The trait is called is_convertible not is_implicitly_convertible.
 
Xeo
11:46 AM
"Conversion" is meant implicitly, there. is_constructible is the explicit-or-implicit case.
 
bad design/wording
 
Explicit conversions are new and with fairly low mindshare imo. If it weren’t for contextual conversions I don’t think we’d talk about them at all.
 
Xeo
"new"?
 
I just now realised my using refines = refinements<Concepts...>; would kind of fail if you mix n-ary concepts
 
Xeo
Explicit ctors are not new.
 
11:48 AM
are binary/n-ary concepts that common anyway?
 
Yes.
 
I can only think of EqualityComparable and friends
man
it really does feel like MPL-style placeholder hackery is the only sane way to do this
 
@Xeo The wording, not the notion. Explicit constructors don’t seem to be tied to the words ‘explicit [type] conversions’ unlike, say, casts.
14 mins ago, by Luc Danton
I’m fairly sure that all mentions of explicit or contextual conversions in the Standard are phrased in terms of direct non-list construction anyway, I see nothing inappropriate with leaving std::is_constructible to do the job. The real fix is deprecating is_convertible in favour of is_convertible_from and is_convertible_to.
^why it is the wording that matters
 
> Much maligned for the inclusions of a youthful teenage genius named Steven Spelberg (an unsubtle reference to the director of the first transmitted Columbo story, Steven Spielberg) and Robby the Robot (from Forbidden Planet), this is a worthy entry in the long-running series simply because it's initial simplicity is the catalyst for a very robust and difficult-to-solve case for Columbo.
 
11:53 AM
imma go sleep
let me know how concepts go @LucDanton :D
 
user1804599
 
@Rapptz Did you know that things like MonadState s m are not Standard Haskell?
(You could argue that in the case of MonadState s is more of an output parameter, better implemented as an associated type; still, I think my point stands.)
 
def reloader_thread():
    ensure_echo_on()
    while RUN_RELOADER:
        if code_changed():
            sys.exit(3) # force reload
        time.sleep(1)
Cool
 
user1804599
Holy shit, Werkzeug's stack traces are nice.
 
@rightfold Is that you chatting with your boyfriend?
 
12:09 PM
> note: template argument deduction/substitution failed:
Here we go again.
 
12:22 PM
Teaching people how to create memory leaks? — sehe 7 secs ago
 
wow, 12k rep
 
lol tpool
WORDS ARE TOO MUCH TO TYPE
 
@AndyProwl amaizing init. Java too, though
@CatPlusPlus he's been at this for some time stackoverflow.com/questions/25925256/…
 
@sehe That explains
Also:
> I'm a professor assistant at my local university on the Data Structures and Algorithms course
 
Data structures. Who cares about correctness. As long as it sorts!
@rightfold and his skull
 
12:27 PM
@sehe What disturbs me the most is that it's not on his profile. That's how he started an answer.
Who cares who you are? Just write the answer
 
Lolwut. I didn't notice that
 
781
A: Big O, how do you calculate/approximate it?

vz0I'm a professor assistant at my local university on the Data Structures and Algorithms course. I'll do my best to explain it here on simple terms, but be warned that this topic takes my students a couple of months to finally grasp. You can find more information on the Chapter 2 of the Data Struct...

"I'm a super-expert-genius, and if you find this hard to grasp, don't worry, it's normal for under-developed creatures like you and my students"
 
781 votes. Envy
 
that too
 
@AndyProwl assistant professors here are usually students who finished the usual college for the things they want to teach + the pedagogical courses, and are pursuing a master's degree
so far from super-expert-geniuses :D
 
12:31 PM
@AlexM. to me that sounds like he's boasting though
 
yeah I got your point, it seems like that to me too
 
He's invoking authority. This creates the impression that he needs that for his answer to be taken seriously
 
indeed
 
for da piwate
 
> litter asea
 
12:35 PM
@Rapptz Actually, I think I’m good for a break. I may resume tomorrow. Cheers!
 
> Dear Etienne de,
6
They never get it right.
 
Bah of course vboxsf doesn't do inotify
 
12:52 PM
@AndyProwl Flotsam?
 
yeah
 
litra-z
@EtiennedeMartel what the fuck why would they do that
either they don't understand names (and that's supposed to be your forename), or their system assumes surnames are always one word
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Hate his music.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's the same option.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes not really, no
 
12:55 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit On their profile page, they have a single field for "Name". So they have to parse it.
 
"Hi, my name is A de B." "Ah, well, since I have no knowledge of the world, presumably 'A de' is your forename, and B is your surname. Interesting forename."

-vs-

"Hi, my name is A de B." "Oh, cool! Let me just write in this form for you... Forename: [A], Surname: [de B]... ok got it. Now I'll put that through the computer...." *computer outputs Surname as long as [a-zA-Z]*
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit or they assume that surnames are last\
 
ffs gdb give me symbols dammit. it's the same binary! unstripped!
 
@Mgetz Unlike Outlook which has, around the world, forever labelled me as 'Mr. James Martin'.
 
@Sofffia Love the "NBC #weinvestigate" logo on the bottom right.
 
12:58 PM
@MartinJames Isn't that a jazz singer?
 
@Mgetz no
you may be thinking of James Brown, who partially fits the bill
 
@Mgetz yes, and possibly a soccer player, and a developer who has had his name mangled by an email app to such an extent that he has to respond to "Hello, Mr Martin", on business trips:(
I hate Outlook.
 
@MartinJames please link to this jazz singer James Martin
@MartinJames Why don't you just put your names in the correct order?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit which one?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit He used to play for Hartlepool.
 
1:07 PM
@Mgetz any of them
 
James Martin or Jim Martin may refer to: == Academics == James Cullen Martin (1928–1999), American chemist James E. Martin (born 1932), university president at the University of Arkansas and Auburn University James Kirby Martin (born 1943), professor of history == Actors, musicians, and other performers == James Martin (actor) (born 1992), actor on EastEnders James Martin (Scottish actor), actor on Still Game James and Tom Martin (born 1977), English twin musicians Jim Martin (musician) (born 1961), guitarist formerly with Faith No More Jim Martin (puppeteer), puppeteer on Sesame Street...
hmm onebox fail
 
1
Q: Why does the order of template parameters matter to the MS C++ compiler in this example?

SarienThe following code compiles fine in GCC but in Visual Studio it results in error C2782: 'bool contains(const T &,const std::initializer_list<T2> &)' : template parameter 'T' is ambiguous see declaration of 'contains' could be 'const wchar_t *' or 'std::wstring' It does however co...

@Mgetz Um, which one of those is a jazz singer?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think the closest we get is bluegrass, but w/e
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I never said there was one, I just thought that the name sounded familiar. No need to be pedantic about it
 
1:14 PM
@Mgetz "Isn't that a jazz singer?" "Yes" "please link to this jazz singer James Martin" "which one?" "any of them" links to anything but jazz singers
Honestly I don't think it's "pedantic" to point out that you two are totally full of shit in this conversation
you lied worse than Bush
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you're having Puppy withdrawal syndrome
 
I think when a colleague writes "yes ok, i min" instead of "1 min", you get a glimpse into their competence with computers and mental processes
@Mgetz it's so hard
 
my friend addressed a woman called virginia, virgina in a public email to a large group & she works for the government ...
 
Don't onebox Amazon ugh
 
1:17 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes wtf
 
yeah, making money from kids is easy ...
 
> Book 2 include examples of buying food, books, and gifts with Bitcoin, and sending Bitcoin via email and text messages. The methods they use are not publicized anywhere except in the Bitcoin community or through the Sabra’s research.
this is extremely disturbing for some reason
 
buttcoiners
 
> Book 3 offers motivational interviews by ten avid Bitcoiners
"motivational interviews"
 
Book 4 includes examples of buying drugs and evading taxes
Now you too can be a Captain of the Industry
And dry strawberries on the GPU ASIC heat
 
1:19 PM
book -1: silk road for underaged bitcoin users
 
ugh their mother is a "solopreneur" and teaches people how their kids can make money online
could this be any more disgustingly american
you're 14! go out and kick a football in the street ffs!
 
buttcoiners
 
> I back into my garage every time. Why? Several reasons. One, because it's harder.
 
jheh
I pretty much never park forwards. I can't imagine why anyone would consider reverse parking to be unusual or "douchy" behaviour.
 
but seriously, the reason why I bought iphone 6 instead of galaxy 5s is because galaxy 5s is cheaper to buy outright and they cost the same on the same plan
so I thought I could always buy galaxy 5s 2nd hand if I seriously want one ...
 
@chmod711telkitty Watertight logic.
 
@chmod711telkitty you bought the iPhone 6 because you wanted to see it bend
ADMIT IT
 
1:48 PM
(Like the S5, get it?)
 
that's 6s not 6
beside why is bending so incredible? you can just substitute the metal/glass with rubber and then it can bend?
 
> but just have a normal trunk with your laptop bag in it or whatever
lol leaving laptops in the trunk
 
What's wrong with that?
 
but if it bends, does the map displayed on the screen get larger?
 
@chmod711telkitty you know the iPhone 6s doesn't exist, right?
the latest iPhones are 6 and 6 Plus
 
1:51 PM
does 6 bend too?
 
I dunno, probably
try it yourself
and let us know
 
well, 6 is smaller, so it's harder to bend
 
you're just not giving it your all
bend that shit like there's no tomorrow
 
@Feeds "I found a solution to reduce [...]" :P
 
btw, does apple replace bent phones?
they should
 
1:54 PM
Why?
 
if I have something like void foo() { int x = 42; int y = 0; ... }, does the standard offer any guarantee on where y will be stored in memory wrt x? In particular, does it guarantee that the two objects will occupy contiguous regions of memory? I assume no, but I'd rather be sure
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes because it's a very... uh, ugly thing
 
They'll just tell you you're holding it wrong.
 
then again their stance on the iPhone 4's (I think) antenna problem was "don't hold it like that", so...
 
(And if you bend it, they're sort of right this time)
@AndyProwl No.
 
1:56 PM
ok, thanks
 
Anyone seen @Puppy?
 
he's been MIA the last few days
 
user3010322
Dat job.
 
thought puppy has a new job & got moved to somewhere with no internet connection ... temporarily that is ...
 
1:58 PM
@chmod711telkitty About the same as his swamp, then.
 
@chmod711telkitty There was some debate over when he was actually to start
 

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