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5:00 PM
Good question
Yet more evidence of "C/C++" bullshit and this one cannot be defended!
 
inb4 C/C++/assembly/Haskell/PHP
 
What is "C/C++"? You can't even suggest that you meant "C and C++" this time, otherwise you'd have written "C/C++/assembly". — Lightness Races in Orbit 6 secs ago
 
user1804599
C(++)
 
C\+{1,2}
5
A: What language is .NET Framework written in?

shanIt was fully written in C and C++ because the base was in assembly language, and integration of assembly with C is easy compared to new languages.

 
off I go to the pub. on my own. :(
 
5:02 PM
What a shitty answer.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit never drink alone
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm sure there's gonna be other people there.
 
@FredOverflow It was far shittier three minutes ago, before I edited it.
@FredOverflow Yeah I mean aside from the regulars, who I've already seen plenty this week. My closest friends who tend only to go out at the weekend are away
it also means there will be no debaucherous trip to town afterwards
@FredOverflow grr
I barely dare check that guy's revision history
 
Why would you put languages in backticks? :)
 
OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD
 
5:05 PM
Got a raise
Also I need to work more
 
@CatPlusPlus GG
 
Getting more money for working more is not a raise.
 
No, those two things are orthogonal
I have an hourly rate
 
@CatPlusPlus ffs
 
jelly
 
you need to be more awesome like me
 
@CatPlusPlus Did you ask for it?
 
So just like Adam Jensen then.
 
I probably was gonna mention it soonish but
 
5:09 PM
Cool.
 
I'm too awesome
 
user1804599
@LightnessRacesinOrbit aaahahahahah
 
But my hours suck I really gotta get myself together because jesus
I could have like twice as much money
 
didn't know you were religious
@Murali: Ehm, could you please stop randomly adding code formatting to things that are not code? Those edits, contrary to the reason you give, do not "improve formatting"; they in fact make it quite a lot worse. That would be great. Thanks. — Lightness Races in Orbit 4 mins ago
 
user1804599
 
5:11 PM
@ThePhD Stop using MSVC
 
> It's like he is wanting to create the high-performance PHP-tier language.
That's the best summary of that Blow video above.
 
A what video
 
user1804599
Sounds exactly like C++.
 
@rightfold dang I didn't realize my mistake :)
 
Is that that talk where someone was complaining about C++ and proposing to design a new language for gamedev
 
5:12 PM
Guy is named "Blow".
 
That blows
 
user1804599
Blow sucks.
 
@FredOverflow Dave Ungar (inventor of generational scavenging and the Self programming language, among other things) used C++ to implement them.
 
@CatPlusPlus No need for a new language; in C++11, you can put void*s in structs and initialize them to NULL if you watch his slides carefully!
@JerryCoffin Yeah, but the YouTube comment sounds like every C++ programmer does that.
 
@FredOverflow null pointers rule the world.
 
user1804599
5:14 PM
Null pointers create new jobs.
 
I wish they didn't.
 
user1804599
The government should subsidise those who use them.
 
also lol that error codes are better than exceptions bullshit
 
@FredOverflow I'd guess that quite a few people implementing GC do actually use C++, but yes that's a minuscule minority of C++ programmers.
 
@rightfold You should go into politics and stop null pointers: NULL is not an Option!
 
5:15 PM
Time for a large pizza
 
user1804599
Also in the Netherlands software companies are subsidised for using technologies they aren't familiar with. :lol:
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow it certainly is: val x: Option[T] = null
 
And a salad
 
@rightfold Sounds like a good Kickstarter spiel: I'm going to program the next great video game. I have no clue about games or programming, but it'll be awesome. Moar Money!
 
Make a Kickstarter about making an idea for a game
 
user1804599
5:18 PM
Make a Kickstarter about a new gamedev programming language.
 
@rightfold Java 9 (10? 11?) will fix this with value types.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow oh god please have them be like C++ value types.
 
user1804599
Not like C#'s horrible shit.
 
What's the significant difference between those?
 
user1804599
Requiring a default constructor, for one.
 
user1804599
5:19 PM
No custom copy semantics.
 
Also that fukken unopened cider is bothering me
 
user1804599
Also make everything immutable and the distinction becomes pointless.
 
Also don't steal my sentence structures
 
96
A: New! Smarter profile creation and syncing

nicaelYou forgot one thing: allow birthdays before 1920/01/01 in the profile. Please consider allowing it, because my birthday is 1914/05/29. And, by the way, are you planning to make the mobile version of profile editor?

 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus I don't. I add punctuation.
 
5:21 PM
@rightfold C# has different kinds of immutability, doesn't it?
@rightfold What is the difference between const and readonly?
 
user1804599
It has readonly. :v
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow const is for integers and stuff AFAIK.
 
const is constexpr
readonly is const
 
370
Q: What is the difference between const and readonly?

ReadonlyWhat is the difference between const and readonly and do you use one over the other?

 
Without cv-qualification
 
user1804599
5:22 PM
You cannot assign a const in a constructor, but you can assign a readonly field.
 
Of methods and stuff
 
user1804599
It's bad and silly.
 
const values are inlined
readonly are just unrebindable references
 
The static point seems to be the most important and useful point - consts are implicitly staticLijo Jan 21 '13 at 14:00
 
user1804599
If you could write static readonly int x = 0; then the compiler should be able to inline it.
 
user1804599
5:23 PM
No need to bother the programmer.
 
Inlining implies different semantics
 
user1804599
Such as?
 
It means the values won't change if you change the referenced assembly
 
that's not semantics that's hackery
 
user1804599
5:25 PM
Oh, it's inlined by the C# compiler not the JIT compiler.
 
user1804599
That's horrible.
 
You probably shouldn't change constants but still
 
user1804599
If you want to change constants you should use Ruby, not C#!
 
Yeah JIT is a whole different game
 
std::unique_ptr <Vector3> *positions;
5
Why am I still watching this.
 
5:26 PM
Because you're a masochist
 
He's gotta be trolling.
 
Wow.
 
@CatPlusPlus Nah, it's funny.
 
No he's a game developer
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, there's your answer.
 
5:27 PM
Apparently "Puppy" has the highest downvotes/posts ratio
 
I believe he's 100% serious
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No, it physically hurts.
 
I just need to forget that some people actually think his ideas are great.
 
Wait, I reminded myself.
Fuck.
 
5:27 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes An entire industry!
~~~
 
user1804599
Including Xeo.
 
The first people to be uploaded to the Singularity will be the richest, worst white men. Lord, let them build the Singularity in MongoDB.
laff
Why is MongoDB still a thing
Oh what was that coding game that was linked some time ago
 
Xeo
@rightfold Wut
What "including me"?
 
He's bad at making relevant jokes
 
@CatPlusPlus codingame.com?
 
5:30 PM
Yes thanks
 
@CatPlusPlus Because it's NoSQL, that must mean it's good!
 
user1804599
@AndyProwl They forgot a G/10 wouldn't hire.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes whose?
 
@rightfold what?
 
user1804599
5:32 PM
The guy's face reminds me of someone but I don't know who.
 
I also like his dismissals of Rust.
They basically amount to "A Rust programmer will tell you this whole class of runtime errors like double-frees or invalid derefs just doesn't exist in Rust, but this isn't really a problem, so yeah".
 
Games never crash
 
@rightfold It's the eyes, isn't it?
 
Because all of the code involved is exception-safe and properly scop- oh right
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow I think it was Anders Breivik.
 
5:37 PM
lol
 
> “That screenshot is a fake,” Ello cofounder Todd Berger told Betabeat. “We don’t even have the capacity to send an email when we ban someone’s account yet.”
lol
 
> I learned C++ first, and when I first tried Java everyone said it would be so easy, but it turns out that being forced to use objects and never break the rules is hard for us C++ fans. We like to break the rules and have globals and friend functions and function pointers. lol
 
user1804599
> Ello is a simple, beautiful, and ad-free social network created by a small group of artists and designers.
 
user1804599
Fail.
 
user1804599
5:39 PM
@FredOverflow Because you can totally not have globals in Java.
 
He talks about double-frees when you copy stuff that owns memory (i.e. failing to Ro3), and then his solution?
The debug allocator carries around information about all allocations so it can tell you about double-frees.
 
Please don't call them solutions you're triggering me
 
user1804599
It's a solutiout.
 
@rightfold Unless you use global SingletonFactories, it's not really Java!
 
(I mean, having a debug allocator with tons with info about allocations is useful, e.g. valgrind, but it's not a solution)
 
5:41 PM
Who needs production code testing
Cider is dangerously tasty
And pizza hasn't arrived yet
 
don't you even try
 
user1804599
CIDER is nice.
 
A whole language feature to allocate several arrays in the same block.
 
imma put ketchup on it sofffia
 
you are tearing me apart
cat
 
5:43 PM
lol
 
a nice
red
ketchup
Nah it'll probably be garlic and bbq sauce
 
A whole language feature to allocate several strings in the same block, but also manages to somehow be able to mix dynamic and static strings... in the same bl... nah. Something.
> CPUs ain't getting that much faster these days and, you know, memory is getting ever slower in terms of how many CPU cycles you burn to read memory
Shit. I should have bought some eight year old RAM.
 
He writes games for shitconsoles don't he
 
Best slide ever.
 
5:54 PM
wtf am i looking at
 
user1804599
Shit.
 
Just looking at the slides posted here, I cannot help but feel that this guy has absolutely no clue about C++.
 
wut
 
user1804599
inb4 nobody has
 
He's a gamedev how many times do we have to say that
 
5:55 PM
how do you divide an egg
 
I didn't know gamedevs have a bad reputation?
 
Now you know
 
this donut recipe will yield too much dough
 
They do. Which is sad for the good ones, but yeah.
 
but it's pretty standard, it requires 1 egg
 
5:55 PM
Like cliffyb complaining that std::list is slow and hand-made arrays are so much better
 
He writes games in BASIC, he's just trying C++ now, he read the "Learn C++ in 21 Days" book, and is putting it to the test!

At least i hope so
 
@Toppest.Of.Kek He wrote Braid.
Braid is a platform and puzzle video game developed by Number None, Inc. The game was released on August 6, 2008 for the Xbox 360's Xbox Live Arcade service. A Microsoft Windows version was released on April 10, 2009. Hothead Games ported and released the game to Mac OS X on May 20, 2009 and the PlayStation Network on November 12, 2009. A Linux port, created by Ryan C. Gordon, was released December 14, 2010 as part of the second Humble Indie Bundle. The basic story elements unfold as the protagonist, Tim, attempts to rescue a princess from a monster. Text passages laid throughout the game reveal...
 
Oh my god really
jesus why then
 
@CatPlusPlus std::list or std::vector?
 
> Xbox 360
 
5:56 PM
std::list
 
> Xbox Live Arcade
 
@FredOverflow Cat said it right.
 
C#
maybe?
 
Well, std::list is terribly slow compared to arrays in many scenarios.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes By that presentation I'd be guessing AAA!
@FredOverflow That's not the point
 
5:57 PM
What is?
 
> Blow confirms in his development blog that Braid was originally written in C++, using Visual Studio.
nvm
 
switched from STL list to a fixed sized array for some stuff, and speed is up by a factor of 100. I expected maybe just double :D
 
This was "ohhoho standard library sucks so much"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes He was probably benchmarking debug builds.
 
5:59 PM
@FredOverflow I'm not at all surprised that a std::list would be slow as fuck even in a release build.
@FredOverflow He was using std::list for something that an array or vector could handle. That's all.
Lots of tweets to me about stl vectors. I know all about them, I just used a list for some new code as a quick n dirty first implementation.
 
user1804599
std::list is not very bjarnic.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why would you use list instead of vector for quick'n'dirty? Because you save two keystrokes?
 
I knew I should have gotten a kitchen scale already, brb counting 52 tablespoons of flour :\
it's especially painful if I lose count
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Because you don't really know what std::vector is or does.
 
@FredOverflow Because you're a game programmer.
 
6:01 PM
Salad overflow
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Because using namespace std; makes it clash with your own vector type.
 
@rightfold lol
namespace s { using namespace std; }
s::vector v;  // yay, saved 2 keystrokes!
 
> Having played it and experienced it's very cool time feature I seriously doubt any other language could pull this off and still be playable.
(on braid and it being written in C++)
 
@AlexM. Only C++ can make games with time features?
 
> It'd be better if we didn't have to do this!
 
6:05 PM
<stdint.h>
 
So today,
 
user1804599
Ahaha.
 
I had an argument about std::vector vs. C arrays
 
@FredOverflow yes, since std::future
 
6:06 PM
@MohammadAliBaydoun vectors are better
 
and I lost
 
user1804599
Dunning–Kruger confirmed.
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun How did you blow it?
 
Because no one believes me when I say that the generated assembly is almost identical (with optimizations)
 
Then just show them the assembly?
 
6:07 PM
They didn't let me ;_;
And they're seniors
I'm a first-year sophomore
Appeal to authority logical fallacy ;-;
 
@MohammadAliBaydoun Ask them to show it. They're seniors. They can show it.
 
@aclarke You wanted an attack vector, people are putting payloads into UA strings
 
i'm using the CRT functions to report it
 
user1804599
Oh nice, that TV show about trains is airing again.
 
> Someone says they think I'm just inventing Rust. I disagree.
OMG he said something right.
 
6:09 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes What
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I was yelling at them "YOU DON'T NEED MANUAL MEMORY MANAGEMENT IN C++"
 
I don't believe you
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes And they were like "NO, WHAT IF YOU NEED PERFORMANCE"
 
@CatPlusPlus He is correct in that he's not just inventing Rust. It's totally... not it.
 
6:10 PM
Almost, but not quite, entirely unlike it.
 
Because reinventing Rust would require some competency and PL design knowledge
 
He wants C without header files and with *! syntax for owning pointers, like unique pointer but totally copyable because the debug allocator can tell you when you double-delete.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That is my favouritest thing ever
 
user1804599
And hard drugs.
 
6:10 PM
Is it April's fools already? I thought we just had one — Borgleader 12 secs ago
 
LOOK AT THIS
JON SKEET ASKS QUESTION
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus What does the size of int not matching std::size_t have to do with VC++?
 
user3010322
I'm pretty sure int doesn't change in MinGW either.
 
@ThePhD Dunno, as good reason as any
 
> I would prefer not to write Vector<3> because I wanna know that my vector is fast
 
6:12 PM
lol yes set the heap to debug state after doing heap stuff
 
@Chantola He only has 11 rep.
 
fucknuggets it's good to be back at home
4
 
puuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuppy
 
PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPS
 
We've missed you
 
6:19 PM
you have?
 
user1804599
Oh god you again.
 
Your family finally paid the ransom?
 
lrio cried
 
user1804599
Weekend ruined.
 
I just had to go to back to Bristol
 
6:20 PM
@Puppy How was your first week on the job? :)
 
fine, really
it's flathunting that's not going well
I made a bunch of appointments on Sat and Mon and the agents cancelled them all by the time I could physically get to Bristol
 
Xeo
 
user1804599
lol set([…]).
 
> Do you want to leave Trash?
lol
Yes, I want to litter!
 
6:23 PM
He thinks "Turing-complete" means you can launch emacs and start the Towers of Hanoi simulation.
 
@Puppy Try to find people leasing directly, agents are expensive as fuck
 
@CatPlusPlus I did, but agents at least answer the phone.
 
Well unless you're v lazy then pay an agent to find you one
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes My Turing machine goes to 11.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow Rage Against the Turing Machine?
 
6:24 PM
@rightfold yes
Deus ex Turing machina
Turing machine head
 
@CatPlusPlus Don't really want to pay an agent :P
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow lol
 
the main problem I've had is that places in Bristol go before I can physically get there to view them.
 
user1804599
Turing Machinemade God
 
@rightfold The funny thing is that Turing machines actually have heads :)
 
user1804599
6:26 PM
:P
 
user1804599
Turing Machinima
 
wait, puppy is back
yay!
 
puppy pls vote
 
I don't get people who insist on going to videos like Windows 9's multi-desktop feature presentation or w/e
just to comment with stuff like "Linux had this for 16 years"
what's that even supposed to mean
that windows is late to having the feature
 
6:31 PM
how is that relevant in any way, what is that supposed to mean
 
That Windows is getting decade-old features.
Quite simple.
 
Personally, I'm glad they're introducing them.
 
oh yeah
sorry about Nomic.
I kinda left you all hanging.
 
user1804599
> what's the github repo for HTML
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that is pretty obvious, but I still don't see as something that makes windows look bad enough to make it worth posting a comment
 
6:34 PM
Wait.
 
also
 
Things are not worth mentioning if they only make Windows look a little bit bad?
 
robot, you're terribly wrong.
 
if anything, it makes it look good for finally adding it
 
What if that was the intention?
 
6:35 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes no
I meant something else
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes, but Microsoft will probably not totally fuck up the usability, so it'll still be effectively a feature Linux doesn't have.
 
@FredOverflow so? he's obviously the real thing
 
it's pretty obvious that adding a feature that Linux had for 16 years will make people leave such comments
so the only way for that to not happen is for Windows to not have that feature added at all
 
Avoiding that is not a goal.
 
6:36 PM
it's not
 
Puppy being bad at Linux is a thing that will never change
 
it's just the thing that got me thinking about this
 
user1804599
Windows has no i3 so it's shit regardless of anything else.
 
the whole reason Microsoft didn't add it in the past is because they couldn't make it work for regular users as well as power users
 
6:38 PM
lol
 
they implemented it multiple times for previous versions going back to XP, I think it is.
adding multiple desktops and other power-user-friendly features is part of the whole reason for the Metro/desktop divide
so multiple desktops can go in the desktop and your momma can stay on metro
 
like, people concentrate more on the fact that a program got a feature late than on the fact that it finally got it
no idea how to explain it
it just feels unconstructive
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes After 304 was proposed so it doesn't count :P but I did miss that
 
user1804599
Ugh, that animated green bar on Discourse is really annoying.
 
6:40 PM
Also, I have a horrible headache.
 
What green bar
 
@AlexM. Truth is blind to that :P
 
user1804599
 
@rightfold what is that?
 
user1804599
annoying
 
6:41 PM
@rightfold who?
 
badfold
 
I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop impersonating me. I've flagged this question for moderator attention. — Jon Skeet 17 mins ago
 
African kids are dying — Jon Skeet 13 mins ago
interestingly enough, Romanian kids are also dying
 
lol Introversion forum
On login page taborder is username, password in the top bar (instead of below the username in the same form)
 
@FredOverflow lol
 
user1804599
6:51 PM
@AlexM. as are Dutch kids.
 
user1804599
Just fewer. :v
 
@sbi Not sure what you mean.. You mean it's not compliant C++98 (and beyond)?
 
user1804599
Quick everyone impersonate Skeet.
 
user1804599
I should migrate fat from belly to butt.
 
I'm watching this video in the starred section right now.
 

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