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user1804599
7:00 PM
@JerryCoffin I like how you’re on the about page too.
 
@refp just because it does RTTI? ;_;
 
@JerryCoffin irrelevant, there's more to being a language-lawyer than having a good tag score at SO! bite me harder.
 
if i have a question that devolved into a Y problem, and isn't adressing the X problem, is it better to re-ask with more of a focus on X or to change question?
on SO
 
user1804599
@melak47 Works in D. vOv
 
@refp why so serious :;
 
user1804599
7:03 PM
The function source code must be available to the compiler. Functions which exist in the source code only as extern declarations cannot be executed at compile time.
Executed expressions may not reference any global or local static variables.
asm statements are not permitted
Non-portable casts (eg, from int[] to float[]), including casts which depend on endianness, are not permitted. Casts between signed and unsigned types are permitted
 
user1804599
These are the only restrictions on functions if you want to execute them at compile-time in D.
 
@bamboon I'm not serious :(
 
Ell
@rightfold can you do io?
 
@refp True--there's also having a long history on comp.std.c++.
 
> error: std::string&& : type not allowed for constexpr
aww..
 
7:04 PM
@melak47 mostly because typeid is not constexpr
 
@refp :(
 
user1804599
@Ell I/O functions call other functions internally that are not available to the compiler. :)
 
user3010322
@JerryCoffin Strange, I thought @LightnessRacesinOrbit would have this badge o.0
 
user3010322
@melak47 Nope. :c
 
user3010322
What're you trying to do with typeid anyhow?
 
7:05 PM
@ThePhD It helps if you actually know what you're talking about, not just niggle about terminology people use, and/or continue to quote the crap that everybody already knows.
 
@ThePhD getting the type names of the arguments
I suppose I could use evil macros, but nahh...
 
@JerryCoffin you took this discussion far more serious than I hoped
 
user3010322
@melak47 Oooh. Well, the const char* are made only once.
 
@JerryCoffin and language-lawering is more than having a good "online record" imo
 
user1804599
You're thinking of Reversi. It's okay to make that mistake; I mean, the boards do look quite similar. — aehiilrs Nov 17 '09 at 23:49
 
user1804599
7:07 PM
Dat pun.
 
@ThePhD I need to concatenate strings though. don't see how I'm gonna get the type names as constexpr, and concatenate const char* without macros :p
 
I guess this was the link you meant? groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/comp.std.c++
 
user3010322
@melak47 Heh. Just let it roll at runtime.
 
user3010322
If you really need to save time, cache results.
 
user1804599
@ScottW haha
 
7:08 PM
@ThePhD I don't think it'll come to that
 
@ScottW so true
 
@refp What makes you think I'm in the least serious about any of it? (hint: whatever made you think that, it was wrong).
 
@JerryCoffin vaginas.
 
@ScottW It looks like the mobile chat.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I think mobile is better because the desktop version doesn't even group bubbles
 
7:12 PM
Yeah, that's what I dislike the most about the above.
All those bubbles are not grouped together. They just take a massive amount of space in that tiny window.
And it becomes hard to read long messages.
 
how can I initialize an int*** as a tensor of zeros?
 
yep, 3 messages and it's over
 
@user1876508 WTF is a tensor?
 
user1804599
@user1876508 by switching to sane data types.
 
user1804599
@FredOverflow generalisation of matrices and vectors.
 
7:12 PM
@FredOverflow multidimensional matrix
 
@refp Honestly though, my own take is that there's a time and a place for language lawyering--but it definitely needs to be restricted to the right time and place, or it just gets obnoxious.
 
Well, how big is the matrix?
 
I tried int*** a = new int[5][5][5](), but that gives me an error
6
 
C++ isn't Java.
 
@JerryCoffin whatever made you think that my "language-lawyer" remark was of a serious nature, it was wrong.
 
7:13 PM
int a[5][5][5] = {};
 
@FredOverflow It is a generalization of a vector or matrix,
I need it to be dynamic
 
In all three dimensions?
 
yes
 
user1804599
Write a generic tensor template class.
 
@rightfold s/template class/class template/
 
7:14 PM
That won't work, I need to pass it to a GPU with OpenCL C
 
user1804599
.data(). vOv
 
@user1876508 Are the three dimensions always the same, like 5x5x5, or can it be completely arbitrary, like 7x5x9?
 
It can be completely different
 
Is it always three dimensions or also arbitrary?
 
always three dimensions
 
user1804599
7:16 PM
std::vector<int> data; and then some simple arithmetic can get you to the index of the desired element.
 
although if it was arbitrary, that would be interesting...
 
@user1876508 Do you know the three dimensions at compile time or runtime?
 
compile time
do you mean the dimensions of the tensor, or the actual scalar values which define the number of indices?
 
@refp Fair enough.
 
So why can't you use int a[depth][height][width];?
 
7:17 PM
I know that I will get a 3-tensor at compile time, but at runtime it is dynamic
that is; I may get a[2][5][1] or a[1][55][9],
 
1 min ago, by user1876508
compile time
 
@user1876508 It'll work just fine. The template lets you use sany syntax, but can continue to use exactly the same memory layout (which is about all the GPU cares about) as you'd use otherwise.
 
@ScottW oh I missed you.
 
user1804599
std::vector<int> tensor(width * height * depth);
int& get(int x, int y, int z) {
    return tensor[x * y + z];
}
 
user1804599
Something like this. vOv
 
7:20 PM
I don't like that structure, I'd rather have [][][] for my program
 
@rightfold (But not too much like that).
 
@ScottW verkunden wir dem untergang
 
user1804599
@JerryCoffin Whatever.
 
user1804599
The point is storing everything in one sequence of elements.
 
user1804599
I suck at arithmetic OKAY.
 
7:21 PM
@user1876508 Your asking for a class. A chat can't provide a full class description conveniently. I'm sure there is a question on stack overflow that discusses this.
 
How would I get an [i][j][k] "array" initialized with zeros
I do not want a class, just an int*** initialized with zeros
 
WHY WHY WHY
GET OUT
 
user1804599
std::vector<std::vector<std::vector<int>>> tensor(width, std::vector<std::vector<int>>(height, std::vector<int>(depth)));
 
user1804599
vOv
 
7:22 PM
@To
 
user1804599
Inherit from the type privately and publicise only the interface that doesn’t change the size.
 
@TonyTheLion because I need it to be able to go on a GPU, which only allows for pointers to be passed onto it
 
@ScottW füttert sein Geschwür aus Neid.
 
@rightfold Yes -- no problem at all.
@user1876508 No, you really don't. There's basically no chance in hell that you really want an int *** (ever).
 
user1804599
@user1876508 You can take a pointer to the data of a vector easily.
 
7:23 PM
@ScottW Die Wahrheit ist wie ein Gewitter
 
@TonyTheLion why?
 
user1804599
Also, I highly suspect that the GPU wants a pointer to integers, not a pointer to pointers.
 
I highly suspect this is boring and oh god why are you encouraging it
 
@ScottW es kund zu tun ist ach so bitter
 
user1804599
I also recommend you learn C++ before continuing.
 
7:25 PM
@CatPlusPlus because lol lol lol lol
 
I recommend butter and potatos
 
oh you added butter to your potatoes
that's nice :)
 
user1804599
I ate butter and potatoes today.
 
You butter believe it
 
I believe you
 
7:26 PM
Does anyone actually know the answer... or are you going to keep lecturing me about how I should use a specific paradigm?
 
We're going to tell you to go away.
GET OUT
NOW
Pointers are bad
If you're doing C++, then DO C++ and NOT C.
Damnit
 
@user1876508 An int*** will make your GPU puke, because the data is not contiguous.
 
Trust me, this is highly specific. Under normal circumstances I would never encourage this
 
If you're doing C then do C++ too
Nobody cares
 
7:27 PM
Fuck C
 
@FredOverflow Why would it make the GPU "puke"?
 
Maybe because GPUs don't do indirection
maybe
 
@user1876508 Because GPUs probably expect a contiguous data. I would be very surprised if GPUs would accept pointers to pointers to pointers.
 
Ok, job hunt related question: I just finished my Master's in Electronic Business and Systems Management with a perfect GPA and was just admitted to a post-master's program in Software Engineering, but I don't have a bachelor's degree in an IT related field (mine is in Economics). Do you think I would have trouble finding a job as a C/C++ or any other kind of developer because of my lack of a bachelor's degree?
 
I feel it coming down
like a thunderstorm
 
7:28 PM
Because those pointers have no meaning inside the GPU.
 
user1804599
@SineLaboreNihil Yes.
 
@FredOverflow Or, if you insist on the [][][] notation, you can do something like this.
 
One useless degree, another useless degree, who the fuck cares
 
user1804599
@SineLaboreNihil I can tell from “C/C++” that you know neither C nor C++.
 
@rightfold Why is that?
 
7:29 PM
@ScottW Baby, you rule <3
 
italics
 
@rightfold I am about to start learning C and C++ in my Software Engineering program.
 
(see i'm meta)
 
@SineLaboreNihil good luck with that
 
user1804599
How long does it take?
 
7:30 PM
@SineLaboreNihil Forget that, learn C#, fuck C++ or C
 
You're about to start learning shit, not C or C++
 
@rightfold A year.
 
user1804599
If it’s not at least four years, you’ll still not know C++ at the end.
 
@rightfold lol no, the actual formula is (z * height + y) * width + x.
 
@ScottW Everybody rules. All that changes is what they rule. Some people rule large portions of the world. Others just rule the fungus growing under their toenails.
 
user1804599
7:31 PM
@FredOverflow vOv
 
It's uni so you won't know C++ even if it were 100 years
 
lol
 
@ScottW Sure you do -- you rule Tony's heart!
 
@rightfold In a bachelor's program you only have a few semesters of C or C++ programming or Java or Python, depending on what each school teaches.
 
@JerryCoffin hahahah
 
user1804599
7:31 PM
@SineLaboreNihil Yeah, so?
 
@CatPlusPlus The only thing his university is going to teach him about C++ is probably going to be using namespace std;
 
user1804599
You cannot learn C++ in a year.
 
30 secs ago, by Jerry Coffin
@ScottW Sure you do -- you rule Tony's heart!
 
You cannot learn C++
11
 
user1804599
7:32 PM
It’s too much, too insane, too arcane and requires a certain mindset.
 
@FredOverflow I'll bet they manage at least 3 other bad habits too!
 
@rightfold So why wouldn't my master's and post-master's degrees be worth at least an entry job in a company?
 
And requires a teacher that knows what the fuck they're doing
And C++ teachers don't
 
Hoppe Hoppe Reiter
<3
 
7:33 PM
Degrees aren't worth anything past the CV scanning drones
4
Good luck on entry C++ codebase maintenance when you don't know shit about C++
 
@CatPlusPlus That's what I'm interested in. Can I pass the HR department with two post graduate degrees in CS even though I don't have a bachelor's in CS?
 
Nightmares
 
And you won't know shit about C++, because we're talking about fucking uni
 
@SineLaboreNihil Sure you can. I passed HR dept without any degree at all.
Its about what you can DO.
 
Fuck this industry
 
7:34 PM
Not what you can rattle off
 
@SineLaboreNihil Yes -- if you have a masters degree, they're not going to pay any attention to your bachelor's degree anyway.
 
user1804599
I passed no HR dept because we have no HR dept.
 
ahahahahah
Und aus der Erde singt das Kind.
 
im just gonna go sleep
 
user1804599
7:35 PM
Goodbye Piotr.
 
everythings terrible
 
did we depress you?
 
user1804599
Tot ziens Peter.
 
@CatPlusPlus Have some love <3
 
Well I plan on learning C and C++ on my own past what I'll be taught at my software engineering classes. I know how Java, Python and other languages are taught at uni so I can't imagine C or C++ being taught any better. All I'm interested is ifI can get past the HR department.
 
user1804599
7:36 PM
Java isn’t being taught well either.
 
i need vodka not love
 
Java is terrible
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
@rightfold I know , that's why I had to learn it myself.
 
user1804599
At least not if you have my teachers.
 
@Jefffrey I changed it so they pick the best path of each branch now, not the sum. They now go towards food.
 
7:37 PM
@rightfold I think everyone's teachers teach just the fundamentals, the core or every programming language and then leave you on your own if you are interrested eneough to pursue more knowledge.
 
@TonyTheLion I'd point out that PHP is worse, but I'm tempted to promulgate something like Godwin's law, that comparing any other language to PHP ends the thread.
 
user1804599
I still love it when my Java teacher claimed concrete classes could have abstract methods.
 
@JerryCoffin Yes, you're right. (Of course you are, you're Jerry)
 
@JerryCoffin I agree about PHP.
 
@rightfold lol
 
7:38 PM
@rightfold Lol, ok, mine aren't that bad. :D
 
@SineLaboreNihil Eh, yes and now. Some think array's are more fundamental then vectors. But then the design decisions you have to make lead to functions with bloated interfaces.
 
user3010322
@CatPlusPlus Have fuuun. :D
 
ahhh how is the PhD?
 
@Pawnguy7 gj
 
user1804599
ThePhP.
 
user1804599
7:39 PM
Languages that suck by Tony The Lion, PhP.
 
@Jefffrey now it is basically like my first AI, but slightly better. It loops less, and wraps when it should.
 
@rightfold I read somewhere that PHP tried to be everything, the swiss army knife of programming languages and in the end it turned out to be nothing.
 
user1804599
Sounds like C++.
 
@rightfold Not true.
 
7:41 PM
PHP didn't try anything, that's the problem.
 
user1804599
Nothing is true.
 
user1804599
Everything is a joke.
 
It was gobbled together by incompetent douchebags
 
user1804599
@minitechme the only consistency in PHP is that everything about it is about equally shitty.
 
user3010322
Table of Contents:
	Erlang
	Go
	Ruby
	Perl
	Scala
	Gear
 
user3010322
7:41 PM
<3
 
user1804599
@ThePhD Gear is nice.
 
user1804599
@ThePhD Wait, what? Where is that from?
 
user1886597
can someone help me with an error I am getting?
 
user1804599
Most unlikely.
 
user3010322
7:42 PM
@rightfold Languages That Suck, 1st Ed.
 
user1804599
lol
 
lol
 
You forgot C++, C, PHP, Java, and just about every other language
 
user1804599
@ThePhD Those languages are all pretty nice.
 
user1804599
But Gear is best. :3
 
7:43 PM
@ScottW is that C++ is terrible?
 
So is there a best way anyone would recommend for me to start learning C? Or maybe some beginner's resource like a good tutorial or something like that?
 
they probably don't like us very much
@SineLaboreNihil Buy a book
 
@SineLaboreNihil bucky's video tutorials on YT
 
No tutorials, they're all terrible
 
@Jefffrey Do you have a link?
@TonyTheLion Any book title in particular?
 
7:44 PM
404
Q: The Definitive C Book Guide and List

lillqTo follow the example of The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List for C Books here is a wiki post for organization. A tag search for "C" and "Books" returns no complete book list results as of writing this question. That search is here. This post is to providing QUALITY books and an approximate ...

 
@SineLaboreNihil Here have fun.
 
@ScottW you bastard
 
@SineLaboreNihil Did you even google that question before you asked it here?
 
of course not
he's a noob
 
Yea, found the C++ tutorial. Still if anyone else has any recommendations, Id' much appreciate it.
 
7:46 PM
No tutorials
 
@TonyTheLion Ok, ok, I'll read a book. lol :D
 
@SineLaboreNihil Buy a DAMN BOOK AND DON'T BECOME LIKE ALL THOSE OTHER CRAPPY TURD PROGRAMMERS OUT THERE THAT WRITE SHITTY CODE AND FUCK UP THIS ENTIRE INDUSTRY.
 
@ScottW Actually, I've heard he really is quite a nice person. If you view his books correctly, they're also really quite good--well written, engaging, fun to read. The only problem is they've been misfiled; they should be filed in the fiction section.
 
> The only problem is they've been misfiled; they should be filed in the fiction section.
aahahahah
 
@TonyTheLion Thanks for the guide. :)
 
7:47 PM
:)
 
@Jefffrey Thanks for the link. :)
 
@Jefffrey Ugh
 
@SineLaboreNihil I'm kidding. Don't watch that, under any circumstances.
 
Thank god
I was almost going to come down on you like a thunderstorm
 
Man, this is a tough room. :D
 
user3010322
7:48 PM
As terrifying as it is, I like it when you come down on me~
 
oh baby
<3
 
I'll just stick to one of the books for Tony The Lion's list. :)
 
@SineLaboreNihil Good man :)
Du darfst mein bestrafer sein
 
Oh shute. I want to star the topic line.
Scott Adams (Dilbert creator) "I hope my Father dies soon". http://www.dilbert.com/blog/entry/i_hope_my_father_dies_soon/ Completely agree. This is cruel. #deathwithdignity
^ discuss
 
@sehe Its on the starboard
 
7:51 PM
Thanks everyone for your help. Take care.
 
> His mind is 98% gone, and all he has left is hours or possibly months of hideous unpleasantness in a hospital bed.
Is there much point in continuing to live like this?
 
TIL "I'm sorry but I cannot tip because I do not agree with your lifestyle." is considered hateful.
 
@ScottW Well, I've never met him personally, but somebody who used to write for Dr. Dobbs (maybe Michael Swain, but I can't remember for sure) apparently knew him to at least some degree, and talked about him as a nice person.
 
@Pawnguy7 lol
 
Evidently they have not seen internet comments.
 
7:52 PM
@TonyTheLion I can only imagine. And then the answer would be "no".
 
Right
 
@Pawnguy7 I think the word "hate" is overused, even in that context. But it's a pretty douchey thing to do. You're tipping someone for the job they do, not for the life they live.
 
@TonyTheLion He's purposely not supplying any concrete arguments from his own situation. And quite rightly so: it's not relevant to his cause
 
user3010322
<_>
 
user3010322
Just derped and forgot to attach a letter to the Assistant Dean
 
user3010322
7:53 PM
I really don't want to go back to school, do I? :3c
 
@ThePhD no need to announce when that happens. You'll be high on the frequent user list anyways
 
@caps It does seemed to have strayed from the dictionary definition, yes.
Then again, the reason you cite does not seem to be followed.
Imagine the positions of the patron and server were reversed.
 
user3010322
@sehe What is Dilbert?
 
@sehe Not sure I'm following...
 
Ell
@ThePhD webcomic iirc
 
7:55 PM
Dilbert O'Sullivan
 
user3010322
Ooh.
 
"Oh, you are one of those hating people, you did good, but I don't like what you stand for, so I am not going to tip you."
Such things happen all the time.
 
user1804599
@sehe lolwut
 
user1804599
Fu now I want to play snooker.
 
@TonyTheLion I can't judge his father's specific situation. He purposely didn't describe any specifics of the situation. This makes me left to use my imagination. And it is clear that we don't need any help imagining
 
7:56 PM
@Pawnguy7 No, that's kinda' different.
 
@sehe ah right, yes
 
How so?
 
I saw my granddad suffer immensely before he passed away.
 
Let's imagine this Pycon incident.
 
I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
 
7:57 PM
When it comes time to write out a tip, the server has already performed their service for the customer.
 
The company fired the guy because they were going to be boycotted.
 
Ow. Luckily I've not had such things happen close to me
 
The customer is just refusing to pay the server for the service.
@Pawnguy7 Not familiar with it.
 
@caps what are you comparing this with?
 
@caps A tip is (or damned well should be) a voluntary action, because the person giving the tip decided they wanted to. Here in the US, minimum wage laws have gotten warped to the point that tipping really is almost mandatory (many people in service jobs effectively get no pay checks at all), but that's really not how things should be.
 
7:58 PM
@caps here
 
@Pawnguy7 Your example of a company refusing service.
 
I said switch the position of the server and servee.
 
That's fine and well and alright, but it's not okay to take someone's money and THEN decide you're not going to serve them.
 
That wasn't the case.
I am with Jerry on this one. Last I checked, you are not required to pay a tip.
 
Komm hier, bleib hier, wir sind gut zu dir
 
7:59 PM
You payed for the meal.
 
You're not required to tip, but if you were served well by your waiter, it's pretty douchey to not leave a tip.
 
@caps The server should get paid for the service, regardless of tipping. Tipping should be given only as an extra for extraordinary service, not an obligation for anything short of execrable service.
 
You pay the restaurant for the food, and the waiter for the service.
 

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