« first day (1137 days earlier)      last day (3803 days later) » 

5:00 PM
@CatPlusPlus That's what he said.
 
user3010322
I was just here, mucking around with E_INVALIDARG return codes.
 
Anyone here knows a little bit of COM?
 
user3010322
I mean, I didn't get anything tow ork I have no idea what I'm doing.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I know a little bit.
 
> A new project Robot's Projects was created
Woot
 
5:01 PM
btw
> Problem 1 Solution. const (non-mutable) Java style iterators solve the first problem by having the iterator hold a local copy of the container.
This is why they need all containers to be COW :v
 
Context: I want to do some sort of "traversal callback" thing. So I have a ITraversalCallback interface with an OnCallback method. The idea is that I can implement this interface from C#, pass an instance of that to a COM method that's (written in C++) going to traverse a tree and call the method for each element.
 
@CatPlusPlus They what
They don't
They just garbage collect
 
I'm using regfree COM, and I don't want to have to manually register my C# implementation.
 
Anyway, when I try to pass my instance to COM, I get E_NOINTERFACE.
 
5:02 PM
@CatPlusPlus Oh.
 
They have their own!
Which are modelled after Java
 
I assume that you are not the author of the C++ COM method?
 
oh
 
I made everything in that wrangled mess.
 
5:03 PM
then screw COM, just pass a function pointer and use reverse P/Invoke.
 
QVector<int> vector1;
vector1 << 1 << 2 << 3 << 4;
QVector<int>::iterator it = vector1.begin();
QVector<int> vector2 = vector1; // vector2 now shares the data with vector1
*it = 10;
// not just vector1, but vector2 is now modified too!
Oh gosh, they're just bad.
 
@thecoshman Does not follow
 
libstdc++ has been doing string COW for years correctly.
 
@DeadMG I'm doing cross process things.
 
well
 
5:03 PM
Cross process regfree C++/C# interop.
Welcome to the future.
 
@CatPlusPlus Everything in Qt is modeled after Java.
 
I still wouldn't use COM
 
@EtiennedeMartel Oh gosh. Regfree used to give me nightmares.
 
I'd rather serialise shit to protobufs and back manually
 
I've not done COM to that extent.
so sorry.
 
5:05 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Worked pretty well up to this point.
C++ -> C# works pretty well. Now I'm trying to do the opposite.
 
This is programming
 
I'm guessing it's a fuckup in the marshaller.
 
"worked pretty well until I tried to do something"
 
@EtiennedeMartel I know that story.
 
Can you even debug COM?
 
5:06 PM
well
 
@CatPlusPlus protobufs <3
 
@CatPlusPlus You can look up error messages online and hope someone else had the same issue.
 
Anyone tried capnp?
 
I personally have no idea how the COM IPC stuff works
 
@EtiennedeMartel Ahahaha
 
5:06 PM
but I'm going to guess that it involves some interface registration.
 
user3010322
=[
 
@EtiennedeMartel Not for something as generic as E_NOINTERFACE by a very long way.
 
user3010322
I've done it. I've had to mark some functions constexpr
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have had great interest in capnp, but it heavily uses C++11 features that VC++ doesn't quite have
 
5:07 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wanted to at some point but ultimately didn't
 
user3010322
I looked though its mailing lists, and MinGW support is in the works
 
@DeadMG recall how A* wouldn't work with wrapping?
 
I'm gonna listen to some more Alt-J. By the way, @R.MartinhoFernandes, if you don't know about them, you should check that out.
 
@Pawnguy7 No.
I merely said that your heuristic wouldn't cope.
A* does not give two shits about wrapping.
 
yesterday, by DeadMG
actually, I think the wrapping might fuck you.
 
5:08 PM
because your heuristic was bad.
 
Maybe I misinterpreted it.
Well yes.
 
@Pawnguy7 Are you confused?
 
But is there a way to make it cope?
 
@CatPlusPlus you are polish, thus good for building
 
probably.
 
Ell
5:09 PM
@DeadMG why not?
 
@Ell Why would it?
 
@thecoshman Yeah still does not follow
 
@thecoshman Especially racist building.
 
Ell
wouldn't you need to add edges to the bordering nodes to wrap round?
 
5:09 PM
all A* cares about is "How far is the goal?".
 
It's not any stereotype I've heard
 
@Ell Probably. So what? A* doesn't care about that.
 
You can't make stereotypes up!
 
@CatPlusPlus Sure you can. That's how they come to exist.
 
Well he can't
 
Ell
5:10 PM
@DeadMG Yeah. I guess I misinterpreted the statement
 
@CatPlusPlus vOv probably because you are too busy building
 
Anyway, what I currently have apparently does wrap when it should.
but it occurs to me, both this and A* have a fundamental shortcoming, related to death prediction.
That is my real problem.
Going towards the food never really was.
 
A* does not give even one shit about death prediction.
 
that's not A*'s job.
A* gets you from A to B, nothing more, nothing less.
if you decide you don't want to go towards B then that's your problem.
 
5:12 PM
Yes.
I mean in terms of the entire AI.
A* alone isn't going to cut it.
 
@EtiennedeMartel It basically sums up as "We want to have all the benefits of being part of the UK but don't want to be part of the UK".
"And clearly the UK government will give us this so vote Yes even though we didn't check".
 
@DeadMG Sounds reasonable.
Who wants to be part of the UK anyway?
 
Evidently, I need to simulate the movements of other player's.
 
@Pawnguy7 I once used a real-time variant of A*, RTAA*, to move an Protoss Observer across enemy territory in StarCraft: Brood War. We used an influence map to calculate the "threat" associated with each state, and added that threat to the cost of moving to that state.
 
That could work.
 
5:14 PM
Worked pretty well: the observer avoided dangerous locations because the pathfinding deemed that moving through those took more time than going around it.
 
@Pawnguy7 you can try having fun and use reinforcement learning to see if the snakes can learn themselves how to behave
 
Although, what do you mean by real-time?
 
@EtiennedeMartel A PF/A* mix?
 
Maybe I didn't understand the problem, but if you have a container of pointers to say

struct modifiable{
void modify(){
++x;
}
int x = 0;
};

Then a const iterator wouldn't stop you from calling modify through the pointer.
Since the pointer isn't changing its object or the reference.
 
Recalculate the edges in real-time probably
 
5:15 PM
@BartoszKP I have no idea how that works.
That being said, when would learning be reset?
 
Never
 
@Pawnguy7 yeah, it would require a bit research
 
They're going to conquer the world
 
@Pawnguy7 Means we don't have forever to calculate a path, and the state can change before the algorithm is done.
 
@Pawnguy7 what's "reset"?
 
5:15 PM
@DeadMG Hm?
 
Snakenet
 
@BartoszKP well, I mean, does it have to relearn every game?
 
@EtiennedeMartel The "threat map" is a potential field.
so you've mixed A* and PF.
 
@Pawnguy7 That wouldn't be very efficient
 
@CatPlusPlus yes, that is why I asked.
 
5:17 PM
@Pawnguy7 depends on you, but I'd retain the policy throughout all games
 
@DeadMG More or less. It's the same idea, yes, but in the end it was juste one large grid filled with liberal application of Bresenham's circle algorithm.
 
@BartoszKP but not saved on program close?
 
@Pawnguy7 depends on you
 
Not sure if that is possible.
 
@Pawnguy7 saving something on program close? ;0
 
5:17 PM
It's your program why are you asking these things
 
I just think, if the AI is dumb sometime, they gets better, if it becomes dumb again, players will notice.
 
You can do it however you want
 
@CatPlusPlus I have no idea how this kind of AI works.
 
Again, however you want
 
However you want and working are not the same thing.
 
5:19 PM
@Pawnguy7 you don't want it to work?
 
Make it work however you want
 
well there's your problem!
 
That's what programming is about
 
I am saying.
It is like me doing AI.
I did it how I wanted.
But it sucks.
Whereas if I did it properly, it wouldn't.
 
user3010322
Wat
 
5:20 PM
so adjust your expectations, stop wanting stuff that sucks :p
 
@Pawnguy7 the questions you ask are irrelevant - as Cat said, you can do whatever you like. I can briefly predict what relevant problems you're likely to have with RL: 1) you need to define a state space effectively (i.e. so it won't be too large) 2) you need to define the reward function (should be easy:+10 for food, -100 for death or sth like that) 3) you need to tune the learning algorithm
 
user3010322
I can't have a for-loop in a constexpr function?
 
user3010322
table-flip.
 
@ThePhD bwahaha
 
It is like telling me to make my own map.
Odds are, it isn't going to work well.
@melak47 I don't want stuff that sucks?
 
5:21 PM
@Pawnguy7 if you want something that works...why don't you make it work? :p
 
I don't know how.
 
look it up :D
 
Look up what?
 
you're on the internet, even now
 
5:22 PM
: DDDD
 
@Pawnguy7 reinforcement learning. or whatever you want to do
 
I don't know in what circumstances it is useful, or the basic concept of how it works.
 
If you do know, you could save me time by telling me, rather than making me learn it just to see if it is applicable.
 
@melak47 noooooo
 
5:23 PM
Macros are used to make a sequence of computing instructions available to the programmer as a single program statement, making the programming task less tedious and less error-prone - Trolo
 
@Pawnguy7 yeah, sure, I'll gladly answer questions, but not about design of your app : )
 
Has nothing to do with design.
 
@Pawnguy7 Whoah, whoah. You're talking about creating an actual learning AI?
 
@Pawnguy7 basically, instead of having a fixed heuristic function, you have (for example) some inputs (field positions occupied/unoccupied, maybe?), apply a weight to each, sum them all up, and that's your heuristic. now you allow it to adjust those weights by training it with good examples
 
@Pawnguy7 the question about whether you want save something on program exit or not is
 
5:25 PM
even I don't understand that shit.
 
@BartoszKP the question was whether or not it could be saved on program exit
@BartoszKP fair enough
 
@Pawnguy7 atexit().
or just at the end of main().
 
@Pawnguy7 yes, you can do it however you want. you can save your learned heuristic weights to disk
 
@Pawnguy7 all right, I misunderstood then - yes, learned policy can be saved easily
 
Ell
@Pawnguy7 if you want to learn some learning: class.coursera.org/ml-004/class
(the course started 5 weeks ago but all the material and lectures are available)
 
5:26 PM
also this one: edx.org/course/caltechx/caltechx-cs1156x-learning-data-1120 but I think I've linked it here
 
@DeadMG ... that was not the part I was wondering about.
 
and RL basics although it's best to start with some simple samples from the internet to get what does it do
 
Ell
I might buy myself a 2TB hard drive for christmas :)
 
@Pawnguy7 generally, it would be desirable to save your AI's learned progress :p
 
@melak47 where/when and how to save something are different things
@melak47 couldn't these be manually adjusted until best results are seen?
@DeadMG Neither do I. Or the 10 other things people are suggesting.
 
5:29 PM
@Pawnguy7 you generally have lots of inputs and possibly multiple interconnected layers of nodes applying weights
 
Layers of nodes?
 
I fail to see how this alters the situation.
 
(yes it's a gif, don't bin me bro! it's not animated!)
 
There are just more things to alter.
 
5:32 PM
@Pawnguy7 the idea is that you let it figure out the weights itself by training it
if you're just gonna try weights manually, you could just write a heuristic yourself
 
I would think you kind of already are.
Let's take my score function I currently have.
 
Now, the 100000 and 20 are the weights, right?
Though probably with 100000 in some factored form.
 
I suppose
 
Xeo
@FredO: So, I finished Bartosz Milewski's talk.
 
user3010322
5:36 PM
@Xeo Was it useful?
 
@melak47 Do you think I need this learning to adjust them?
 
Xeo
@ThePhD I found it interesting, at least.
And it also helped me get a better understanding of the reader and state monads, so I guess yeah.
 
Anyway, I need to know beforehand the inputs and everything but the weights, which is part of the problem.
 
@Pawnguy7 with machine learning, you could give it a whole bunch of inputs. manhatten distance, actual distance, square distance, whatever else, with a whole bunch more weights, and let it try to find a good scoring function by training
training shows that manhatten distance sucks? it's weight might become 0.001
 
Such a switch is possible?
 
5:38 PM
it's not switching. it'll just adjust the manhatten distance weight down
 
How do you tell which is better?
 
you train it, you let it play and tell it "that was good"
 
user3010322
Much like you train a child.
 
or you give it example data that is good.
there are many ways
 
user3010322
Smack it with a wooden spoon. :3c
 
5:39 PM
lol
 
Like.
Let's imagine they have equal weights.
If I myself was learning this, I would try one approach, then the other, and compare the results.
 
user3010322
And when it does poorly,
 
user3010322
you smack it with a wooden spoon (assign an overall grade that means punishment to the system)
 
user3010322
and when it does right, you give it candy (assign an overall grade that means better in the system)
 
user3010322
Compare grades, then adjust.
 
5:42 PM
@ThePhD I thought reinforcement learning was all about rewarding the good without punishing the bad? :p
or was that just for puny human children.
 
user3010322
Only for puny human children.
 
user3010322
Computers can take long and hard punishment.
 
Like.
 
@Mysticial should know :)
 
Let's use this child example.
Let's say they study more (a good habit), but eat lots of bad food (a bad habit).
Let's imagine they cancel out.
How do you solve this?
 
user3010322
5:44 PM
Separate grades.
 
user3010322
Candy for the study, smacks for the bad food.
 
The weights are separate, yes.
But the AI is still using both of them, is it not?
 
you don't have to have a single boolean output of "yay" or "nay"
you can also try learning from different starting weights
 
user3010322
Your ending grade can be multiple values.
 
Let's say we are using both kinds of distance.
 
user3010322
5:45 PM
You can also be Chinese and tell it if it's not improving it's not living.
 
And they have the same weight.
 
user3010322
And spank it if it comes out even.
 
> The strawman-ish paranoia of ‘report system as censorship’ doesn’t even register with me when compared with the actual abusiveness of existing ‘reviews’. See: steamcommunity.com//id/Mousti/recommended/232430, and steamcommunity.com//id/dorroile/recommended/219680 for the vitriol directed towards Gone Home and Proteus respectively.
 
Do you just randomly guess and change weights to try this?
 
OH NO THEY INSULTED GAMES I LIKE THIS MUST BE TROLL
gamers.txt
 
5:46 PM
@Pawnguy7 it's like finding the minimum of a function - this approach is not guaranteed to find the absolute minimum in all cases, so trying from different starting points can give different results
 
> It could convey the same thoughts and experiences with much less poo throwing, though. Hence, unhelpful.
I LOVE TONE ARGUMENT
 
user3010322
> I do, however, agree that this game provided an interesting and thought-provoking experiment; why are gaming journalists so full of shit?
 
@CatPlusPlus your capslock offends me. you are unhelpful.
 
To be honest, I think tone is a valid argument.
 
user3010322
Lol.
 
5:47 PM
@Pawnguy7 No, it's not
It never is
 
Consider this.
 
user3010322
"You may be right, but if you're rude, you're wrong."
 
user3010322
People put a lot of stock into Decorum.
 
You could tell me "YOU SUCK" or you could tell me "This sort of works, but you can do it better."
 
user3010322
Unfortunately.
 
5:47 PM
@Pawnguy7 That's not what tone argument is about
 
Both communicate the same message - I did it badly.
Oh. What is the tone argument?
 
@Pawnguy7 one might be a better teaching technique for you, that doesn't make "YOU SUCK" wrong :p
 
Well.
What does saying it get you?
If it isn't to fix the situation?
 
I don't know. I don't say it :p
 
Considering the same opinion can be expressed in less hateful forms.
 
5:49 PM
(except to @ThePhD, YOU SUCK :D)
 
Like.
 
@Pawnguy7 It's about trying to undermine a valid argument by questioning its tone
Considering 'you suck' is an invalid assumption, because it's not really an argument in the first place
 
Well, if by valid argument you mean "IT SUCKS", then... well, there isn't really anything to undermine.
If the argument is valid, then by all means.
 
Yes that is what I'm saying yes
 
I am saying, given the choice, I think some tones are better than others. I don't think this should be related to not giving a bad review, though.
 
5:52 PM
9
Q: Why Community Moderator background process write a rude comment?

WinI come across this comment while Approve/Reject suggested edits. How does this happens from background process? http://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/3446530

^^ lol
 
user3010322
@melak47 q_q mah feelin's.
 
@ThePhD you can take it :p
 
user3010322
> so you intellectually stunted shitdildos can make an attempt to UNDERSTAND something
 
user3010322
Lol
 
user3010322
Only 3 sentences in
 
user3010322
5:53 PM
This is gonna be fantastic.
 
Now.
If I was looking at product reviews.
 
Where's my foooood
 
I myself would value higher those that don't seem like hateful rants.
The more objective, the better.
 
user3010322
> specifically to cater to a unique breed of subhuman cumriddlers
 
I think this is true of many things, as in my example above.
 
user3010322
5:55 PM
Wat.
 
user3010322
What is going on.
 
but rants can be funny!
 
user1804599
Ugh.
 
~art games~
 
user3010322
Hee.
 
5:56 PM
I want to see rants
Sometimes things are so bad they don't deserve any positive comment at all!
 
user3010322
Well, there's an upvote / downvote system
 
user3010322
So good stuff can rise to the top
 
Voting is always meaningless
Popular, not good
 
@Mysticial this edit was suggested my an anonymous person?
 
There's a critical difference
Fuck voting
 
user3010322
5:57 PM
True enough.
 
Especially fuck downvoting
 
@Xeo In that case, I should probably watch it, too :)
 
Well.
Perhaps voting mirrors human nature.
We have been doing popular stupid things for quite a while.
 
@ThePhD I fixed it! all I needed was a const overload of my member-function-pointer overload of stringify/"decompose"
 
@ScottW ello
 
Xeo
5:59 PM
@FredOverflow Be prepared for very bad audio at times
and slip-ups / slurring on Milewski's part
 
user3010322
@melak47 Oh.
 
user3010322
@Xeo Shllplplplpslpslpslp.
 
@Pawnguy7 A troll actually. The suggested edit audit messages are chosen from a pool of bad suggested edits from real users.
 
@Xeo @R.MartinhoFernandes and you said it was impossible! :p
 

« first day (1137 days earlier)      last day (3803 days later) »