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9:00 AM
are you gonna sit in front of a PC on vacation?
 
user1804599
What else?
 
user1804599
I'm also gonna bbq with friends
 
Go outside, exercise
 
user1804599
I cycle 70 minutes every work day
 
I'm planning on spending a week windsurfing this year
 
user1804599
9:00 AM
I'm not gonna also sport in the weekend too
 
user1804599
and in my vacation neither
 
user1804599
I also want to learn about optimisation.
 
@rightfold How?
 
I have one optimization rule
1) don't
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow by implementing optimizations
 
user1804599
9:02 AM
I'll start with constant folding and dead code elimination.
 
user1804599
The simple stuff.
 
user1804599
Then inlining.
 
user1804599
The most important optimization PureScript lacks is common subexpression elimination.
 
@BartekBanachewicz 2) goto 1
@rightfold Can't you simply compile to JVM or LLVM? ;)
 
user1804599
No
 
user1804599
9:05 AM
I can't compile the JVM because the target is JS
 
user1804599
No, I can't use LLVM, because I want proper interop and I want to use the V8 GC
 
user1804599
emscripten is thus not an option
 
user1804599
LLVM isn't for high-level targets
 
well won't V8 make those optimizations for you?
 
Ven
you can't tell without running it
knowing what v8 will do to your code is NP-complete
also it's funny, v8 became the primary VM target for ocaml, they dumped their own VM.
 
9:14 AM
 
woah what
wasn't ocaml compiled
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz it was either compiled or ran in their own VM. they dumped it
@Telkitty no, it crashed, they found it.
 
information surrounding it is very confusing at the moment
no confirmation on it crashed
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz V8 doesn't know the functions are pure
 
user1804599
9:22 AM
It can't do CSE as rigorously.
 
user1804599
V8 doesn't know the types
 
user1804599
it can't optimize well at all
 
Ven
lol that flag
 
@Ven yeah deserved
 
Ven
that was a correct flag.
 
9:24 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Arguably, it's a sign of great wealth. We don't need to worry about optimizing data access often enough to bother?
When we have robots, we will probably just wait for them to 'genetically' arrive at 'good enough' solutions instead of wasting spending brain power
 
@sehe Someone literally asked in js chat hot to pipe nodejs stream into mongodb today
 
Ven
correcto mundo
 
cc @Griwes ^
 
user1804599
public static function semibind<TI, TO>(?TI $x, (function(TI): ?TO) $f): ?TO {
    return $x === null ? null : $f($x);
}
 
user1804599
9:27 AM
fuck null
 
@griwes: I forgot how much I despised the internets.
@ThePhD: We should chat
 
user1804599
> Refugees will repay EU spending almost twice over in five years
 
user1804599
loooooooooooool these people are so blind
 
@blelbach did you answer just to get chat rep? :)
 
Yes. Couldn't remember my email account for my old stackoverflow account. I have had this problem before, sadly.
I generally hate the webz.
 
Ven
9:31 AM
fun
 
@ThePhD: Real talk, if you'd like your submission to be considered for CppCon, drop the fake name stuff. I can understand and respect a desire for privacy, or whatever you rationale may be. However, frankly, it comes across as immature and unprofessional.
7
@ThePhD: Your session looks interesting - perhaps it would get accepted by the program committee. I'm not inclined to have it move forward, however, because the rest of my conference attendees are going to find it very odd that we have someone attending under a fake name.
 
Ven
I spoke twice at conferences (in foreign countries) without giving my real name. I respectfully disagree with you.
 
yesterday, by Bartek Banachewicz
I think what lies at the root of that is essentially cowardice and the feel that you can always back out of that if you don't use your real name
glad someone agrees with me
 
@Ven: I've worked closely with PaX team in the past. I understand and can appreciate people who desire the privacy.
 
then again, pretty much everything I've seen from @ThePhD is immature and/or unprofessional
 
9:35 AM
But, I can't take a submission seriously without a name.
 
@blelbach Ok, a pseudonym would sound slightly less judgemental :)
 
Ven
now that's just a unnecessary personal attack :)
yeah, I spoke with a pseudonym (vendethiel) not a fake name
 
I am not denying he's improved code-wise
 
And Hi, Bryce! Good to see you here. I love the utree things I remember you doing some years ago with Boost Spirit :) //att @blelbach
 
user1804599
@Ven wat isn't that your real name
 
9:35 AM
@sehe: Oh god that was a LONG time ago.
 
Ven
of course it isn't
 
but thanks :)
 
user1804599
@Ven :S
 
@ven: We reject 50% of the submissions for CppCon.
 
@blelbach :D
 
9:36 AM
@blelbach Still seminal, even if it was effectively kinda dropped.
 
Ven
@blelbach that's okay. I didn't submit anything for CppCon ;)
 
Research matters
 
user1804599
'customerSignature' => JSON::string  (
    Nullable::bind($workOrder->customerSignature, fun('base64_encode'))),
 
It would be very hard for me to reject someone who has provided contact info, who I feel confident will show up for the conference, over someone who is unwilling to provide their name.
 
user1804599
ugly code of the day
 
9:37 AM
@griwes: Speaking of which, did you submit talks yet?
@griwes is my annual roommate at C++Now
 
Ven
@blelbach would you be O.K. with someone who gives you their real contact info but doesn't want it public?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Different motivations
 
Ven
@sehe sssh, don't disturb him
 
@Ven: Sure, I'd be open to that.
 
@blelbach Yeah - the C++Now ones so far; I'm thinking whether I should try to invent something else or not.
 
9:37 AM
@Ven Isn't he already?
 
Ven
@blelbach okay, that's very different then
 
@Ven: There are legal things here too
 
Ven
@sehe fair enough
 
@blelbach also :P
 
AKA I need to make sure everyone isn't an axe murderer
Speaking of which...
 
Ven
9:38 AM
@blelbach AXA*
 
@Ven lol
 
fun fact: when I first started working at LSU with Hartmu Kaiser (the Boost Spirit author), my mother was convinced he would turn out to be an axe murderer.
8
 
NO! People murder innocent axes? SCNR
 
Ven
turns out he was worse, he was a boost contributor.
 
@blelbach That's hilarious
 
9:39 AM
My mother and Hartmut met at one point. He knew about the axe murderer story. Hartmut being Hartmut... he brought it up. It was gloriously awkward.
 
Ven
@blelbach I mean, I'd probably be ready to give my contact info to the organizer, so long I know it's gonna stay private
 
@Ven: If @ThePhD wanted to do that, I'd be fine with it, although his public pseudonym for the event will have to be something less... pseudonymy than it currently is.
 
@sehe I am pretty sure "immature and unprofessional" were pretty clear
 
Ven
@blelbach would "ThePHD" be an okay pseudonym? :P
 
Nope.
I would be fine with it.
 
Ven
9:41 AM
@blelbach would "vendethiel" be an okay pseudonym?
 
But, like all many things, CppCon is run by committee.
 
@Ven the h is small there
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz like your mom
wait what
 
the ambiguity in that name adds insult to the injury
 
And other people would probably veto
 
9:42 AM
ThePhD is essentially like a fractal of bad design in PHP
 
@Ven that's new
 
Something like John Smith, etc, would be fine.
 
Ven
@Griwes got confuzzled
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yup. He's assessing talk submissions, though. Different motivations (he can cite audience motivations, of course; he represents the audience in large part)
 
you think the name is bad, then you actually realize it means "phantom derpstorm" and it only gets worse from that point
 
Ven
9:42 AM
@blelbach so you'd rather have a fake name than a pseudonym?
@BartekBanachewicz I knew that already ;)
 
@BartekBanachewicz: His name on the submission was the phantom derpstorm
 
PSA: This is Lounge<Pedantry++>. Never forget context
 
@blelbach ...
Well for one I wouldn't sit in a talk presented by a "phantom derpstorm"
 
That is immature
 
I'd just up and leave
 
9:43 AM
I came home from work today and said "God, I had a 30 minute phone call today about derpstorm"
9
what am I doing with my life? >.<
 
Ven
@sehe you mean Lounge<++Pedantry>.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Storms tend to do that to leaves
@Ven :)
 
Ven
@sehe :DDD (sorry, but it was just too tempting)
 
@blelbach You could rationalize this as "networking" :) (It is. I'm happy to see you here). And, you don't have to make it a habit, for obvious reasons
 
I am trying to think up why not speaking under your real name is disrespectful to the audience
I'm pretty sure there are at least a few reasons
like it'd be fine to use a pseudonym if everyone knew who you are anyway
 
Ven
9:45 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I don't know what's up with you this week, but you've been very vehement
 
@BartekBanachewicz Disrepectful is a strong word. I think you'd need to have very good reasons for the assymetrical privacy protection
 
Well I could accept someone wanting to speak under a fake name.
 
@BartekBanachewicz: Setting aside the concerns of seriousness, there are a few technical arguments against psuedonyms.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Scott should have changed his stage name to "He-man" after the hair-poll
5
 
Most of those arguments go away if the conference knows the real name, but the audience does not
 
Ven
9:46 AM
@sehe he just left instead ;(
 
Although at a conference, when the majority of stuff you do is, well, not quite anonymous, due to stuff like hotels and shit, I don't see the point.
 
> Hello I'm a cookie monster and I'll be talking about advanced C++
 
@Ven When he realized his mistake
 
e.g. It is difficult to ensure that we have our legal bases covered in terms of publishing recordings if we do not know the name of the person who gave permission for it to be recorded.
If the speaker is actually underaged, the conference has to know about that because we have to have their parents sign a form.
 
I think we should just say that not using your name makes you a pussy
that settles everything
 
9:47 AM
@BartekBanachewicz "a cookie monster" - nah that won't do. It needs to be "Cookie Monster®" at the very least
 
...that reminds me that I again failed to send you that C++Now form :D
 
Also, if a C++/Rust/Swift fight breaks out at the conference, and the anonymous speaker gets injured, I'd like to know their name as I'm shipping them to the hospital
6
@griwes: You should read the form more closely
You signed it once, the usage release form is not specific to the event
 
@BartekBanachewicz "everything" in Bartekkian World View
 
I OWN YOUR RITES 4EVER BRO
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz That doesn't sound very serious indeed; who'd want to talk about C++?
3
 
9:48 AM
...did I actually send you one at any point though?
:D
 
Yes
First year.
 
Hmm.
 
Speaking of C++/Rust/Swift fights.
No spoilers, but the keynotes for C++Now next year will be epic
 
Also seems you're ruling the starboard from the start. :D
 
Ven
@blelbach no D? :P
 
9:50 AM
Ah yes.
D too :p
Possibly Haskell
 
Ven
aaaaaand now Bartek has a hard-on
 
user1804599
Rust is great.
 
@blelbach Wait, are we getting a keynote per day? :D
 
No comment.
 
> Plenty of marine traffic out searching for #EgyptAir #MS804 ocean conditions good for S&R
I bet it's unfortunate that the crash site is momentarily inundated by a small ocean
 
9:51 AM
... But register early
 
user1804599
Also I'm gonna make a dungeon crawler in PureScript with text and SVG.
 
Ven
@blelbach I'm sure it's far from France, which means I can't attend because I'm a student
 
@Ven: We have a student volunteer program
 
Well I'll be submitting something, so there's that.
 
It's awesome. @Griwes will tell you all about it
 
9:51 AM
@blelbach I, for one, welcome our new FP overlords
 
user1804599
I learn something new every day. Does that make me a student?
 
@BartekBanachewicz ...we had an absurd amount of category theory discussions this year.
 
The program is kinda vague on the definition of student
 
fap overlords
 
lol, David Sankel. "This is not a Haskell conference"
 
9:52 AM
@Griwes is absurd "we did functors and monads'
@blelbach WELL IT IS NOW
 
@rightfold I like cooked teeth. Does that make me a dentstew?
 
@blelbach Yeah, it is, with two non-students this year... :D
 
@griwes: Who was the second one?
 
@BartekBanachewicz "Wait, is it an n-ary functor or an n-functor?"
 
Ven
@blelbach the USA is still a bit too far from france, tbh. the flight price would be too much
 
9:53 AM
did you see the acme-cofunctor btw
I giggled
 
"Wait is it co-n-ary functor or n-ary cofunctor?"
 
@Ven: The student program pays for all your flights and hotel costs
 
@blelbach Who's the first one you're thinking about? :D
 
@Griwes: Jackie
 
@blelbach woop.
 
9:54 AM
Jackie was awesome, I basically didn't have to do my job.
 
@blelbach I was technically not a student anymore.
 
I'm actually a student
 
Ven
no you're not
 
yes i am
 
Here's my rough eligibility guidelines:
 
9:54 AM
i even have this student card thing
 
I remember my student number. That should do
 
@blelbach Hey, don't forget that I also did some of the delegating stuff. :P
 
I would like to LambdaConf I guess
 
* Actual student.
* Under 30, not a student, works at a non-profit/research facility.
* Under 30, not a student, just graduated, works in a well-paying engineer job (but very new hire, not established enough to request travel).
But seriously anyone can apply to the program. It's free.
 
Well, it's called "Student/Volunteer", not "Student-Volunteer"...
 
9:56 AM
Yes
 
Android room called me a troll, I wasn't even trying - was just discussing some static scoping issue. Then people there got all excited ...
 
@набиячлэвэлиь See here
 
@Griwes: Explain to me how IRC is not superior to this form of communication, btw
 
@blelbach It'd be hard to explain a statement I don't agree with.
 
this is the prime reason
 
9:58 AM
Oh, this poor guy who posted a concept question...
"Hope we will have concepts soon."
 
haha sure just after modules
 
Concepts are overrated
 
Modules will happen
Modules are like 95% for C++20
 
2 days ago, by milleniumbug
so, OverloadedRecordFields ------------- Hell Freezing ------------------------------------ Release of Hate 1.0 -------------------- Heat Death of the Universe ------------------------------------ C++ modules ----->
 
because Google needs them for business reasons and Microsoft wants them.
 
9:59 AM
~At some point in the future.~
 
I would guess we get a full fledged modules TS in a year
 
Btw. did you do something with that exceptions from par_vec thing already?
 
C++~At some point in the future~
2
 
@Griwes I am writing the paper
 

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