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nwp
12:00 PM
maybe const is like a land, gives you 1 mana per turn
 
1 mana per turn?
What is that, peasant land?
 
nwp
well, you wouldn't want const int * const to be free
 
pure functions are "draw a card"
 
@blelbach Is that the C++ "extension methods" ?
 
@Borgleader extension methods == unified call syntax == unicorn call syntax
 
12:04 PM
goto Jail
 
Ven
@nwp holy const placement batman
 
@Ven goto costs 30 mana and overloads by 10 next turn (maintenance cost)
 
lol
 
Ven
:3
 
dude sideboards combo hate in against me. I sideboard out combo. WIN
 
12:05 PM
im using overload in the Hearthstone sense here
actually i might tweet that to him since im pretty sure he plays HS, but its an old tweet so that would be weird
 
nwp
today I watched a talk about API design and the guy said you should prefix member functions that return a bool with "is" or "has" and he showed string.empty() as an example, it looks like it empties the string while string.is_empty() checks for emptyness
now every time I see .empty() it bothers me :(
 
@nwp Bothers me too
We might be able to fix that in std2
 
@nwp and he would be right
 
.empty() is const so under no circumstances can it clear
 
@набиячлэвэлиь User may not remember it's const.
 
12:08 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь if (blah.clear()) <-- its not obvious from here that its const
you have to know/remember a priori
 
user1804599
luckily the user is protected by the type checker
 
@Borgleader Yes like literally everything in C++
 
user1804599
oh wait you don't run it after every keystroke since that takes ages in C++
 
Ven
@nwp .const?()
 
nwp
@Borgleader pretty sure you meant if (blah.empty())
 
Ven
12:09 PM
@blelbach as a french, I can suggest the name mst instead of std2.. ;)
 
nwp
@Ven what?
 
Ven
@nwp Ruby'd
 
@Ven We are scheduled to have the bikeshed (aka name fistfight) on the namespace for the new standard library at Oulu
I don't have a dog in that race yet though
 
will you throw balls of mud as well
 
Ven
@blelbach we have a bikeshedding expert here
 
12:10 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I will throw balls of snow and wolves. It's northern finland.
 
Ven
ooh, wolveas
 
user1804599
id char(10) NOT NULL,
 
user1804599
This is great.
 
user1804599
Fuck surrogate keys.
 
Nov 21 '13 at 9:07, by Mikhail
@rightfold empty() doesn't have any effects, unlike the verb empty. Imagine if your mother told you to empty the trash and you just returned a no every time?
 
nwp
12:11 PM
@rightfold make this for C++ or something that is not as horrible as ruby
 
@nwp yes
 
@набиячлэвэлиь A friend of yours?
 
user1804599
no, I'm making a dungeon crawler
 
@Shoe I don't have any Russian friends :v
 
@griwes: Have you decided to come to Oulu yet?
 
12:12 PM
@набиячлэвэлиь that's not an excuse for having shitty names
what if i want a method that emptyies a container?
 
that's clearing it, not emptying it
the problem obviously lies in english ambiguity
 
:p
 
nwp
to be fair you would never write if (string.empty()) if you expect .empty() to empty the string
 
if there's a distinction, then std::move() empties it.
 
Ven
12:14 PM
we just should put [[warn_unused]] on empty() :).
 
@Borgleader .swap({})
 
Ven
Hey, I just found a use to C++17!
 
@Ven Oy!
Mandatory copy elision and fold expressions are the major features of C++17
Mandatory copy elision is awesome because now you can elide copies for types that are not copyable
 
Ven
@blelbach I like constexpr_if better than SFINAE
 
@Ven constexpr_if is also awesome
 
Ven
12:16 PM
@blelbach I'd glad I'll be able to remove my copy operators that just throw
@blelbach C++20 (or 19) will be suuuch a jump in complexity it's unreal
 
user1804599
@Ven no, you mean .empty?()
 
Ven
@rightfold you very well know I'm retarded ;). Explains @nwp's confusion
 
user1804599
retard
 
@Ven I don't think C++20 will have as many features as people think
That's only 4 years away
 
Ven
@blelbach You think concepts won't make it, right?
 
12:17 PM
@Ven I believe concepts are dead.
 
user1804599
Concepts are stupid.
 
user1804599
You need proper parametric polymorphism.
 
Ven
@blelbach RIP then. So. Modules, UFCS, reflection
 
@nwp that wasnt my point, it was about name collision, a method that emptys the container could be called empty() (much like clear()), I'm just advocating the is_* has_* thing here
 
Ven
@rightfold you need typeclasses. FTFY
 
user1804599
12:18 PM
no, you don't
 
@Ven Reflection will be close.
 
ufcs?
 
Ven
@blelbach even if "only" those 3, that's a lot already.
 
user1804599
you don't need implicitly passed singleton instances
 
Ven
@Puppy unified function call syntax
 
12:19 PM
@Ven Ranges might be an option
@Ven unicorn function call syntax
 
I thought that was absolute bollocks that everybody hated because it was bollocks?
 
Ven
@rightfold immutable singletons are not evil
 
@Puppy That is a factual statement
It came up for vote at Jacksonville
I voted NO.
It was 1/3 no, 1/3 neutral, 1/3 for
 
bah
those votes don't really mean much
 
... Then we took a second vote, and I voted strongly against, and on the second vote it was like 50% against
 
12:21 PM
I was in the vote for dynarray and I was the only guy voting against
then unsurprisingly it got dropped because it was absolute shite
 
Yah, RIP.
I'm the array_ref<> author, hopefully it will not die a similar death.
But the US national body would've probably voted no on UFCS
 
nwp
I was wondering what happened to std::dyn_array
 
Ven
fuck. for (auto : b) {} doesn't parse, but for (auto a : b) {} yields a unused variable warning...
 
@Ven That seems like a bug
In the spec, I mean.
 
@Ven msvc?
 
Ven
12:23 PM
@Borgleader clang
 
Ven
@blelbach oh, I'll go ahead and write a defect report
 
@Ven That might get NADed but it's worth a shot
 
Ven
@blelbach I'm just joking. I'm french, so I'm not legally allowed to write english anyway.
 
@Ven ISO is french.
French, and proud
 
Ven
12:24 PM
@blelbach NAD = Not A D??
 
nwp
Not A Defect?
 
:30642195
That
 
so I wanted to buy an iPhone
but I fixed the phone socket on my old phone
 
Ven
@nwp ty
 
and now the incentive to buy a new one dropped.
 
12:25 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Sleep with someone at Apple first.
Get the friends and family discount
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz I just lost the last bit of respect for you
 
so instead I bought a coffee machine
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz saved
 
Ven
@nwp I have an iPhone. Oh wait, you never had respect for me :P
 
@nwp yeah, a cool DeLonghi model was at like 20% discount
 
12:26 PM
I need a new iphone
my current one is... not doing good. It takes 4 seconds to do anything.
 
Like, 4 seconds to home screen. I never should've upgraded.
 
@blelbach which one do you have?
 
Ven
@blelbach lol, you upgraded
 
nwp
@Ven meh, when you thought I was an ass you told me directly, I respect that
 
12:27 PM
it kept asking me to upgrade the OS. I listened and paid the price
@BartekBanachewicz I dunno, the 5S I think
 
I remember doing the mistake of upgrading my iPad
 
I'm bad at technology.
 
but I dunno I'd prolly buy the 6S+
I've heard it's fast
 
Yah, maybe. I have to sleep with someone at apple first
I ain't paying full price
 
well it is quite expensive
but then again it also outclasses pretty much every other phone on the market
 
12:29 PM
Lord knows I'm not paid enough
 
Ven
;(
 
and the price goes even higher if you count mandatory Apple Watch
 
nwp
@blelbach making overpriced goodies and offering a friends and family discount is the way to get laid, I never knew
 
I don't think iPhone is overpriced
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz mandatowhat
 
12:29 PM
I'd say it's pretty appropriately-priced
 
@nwp Somehow I think most Apple employees have no trouble getting laid.
 
@Ven Well Apple Watch is nice, so when you're getting an iPhone it'd be as shame not to get it as well
 
nwp
yeah, and now I know the reason :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz It appears to be a worthless trinket
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz oh, you're just trolling. Took me far too long to realize...
 
12:31 PM
@Puppy well, it seems to solve every gripe I had with pebble
and I liked pebble
so
 
yeah, that's not really a recommendation ;p
I don't see why a smartwatch would ever be useful really
it's just a smartphone but shittier and just as expensive
 
@Puppy I know you're having problems with that in general
@Puppy Well, no and no.
The form factor is a crucial difference.
Just like a difference between a laptop and a smartphone
 
yeah, a crucial difference in jacking up the price
 
it's not particularly expensive for a watch
 
smartphone is already basically ultra-portable so I don't see what the watch form factor actually has to offer
that's not a recommendation for smartwatches
that's just reiterating that watches are shit
 
12:33 PM
@Puppy "ultra-portable" doesn't mean something can't be more portable
 
which they are, but that's an independent matter.
 
@Puppy hugely depends on usecases
without getting to deep into that discussion, I want to get a bigger phone than I have now
a clear consequence is a compromise when mobile
 
Ven
again about sizes, bartek
 
a watch fills that void. Plain and simple
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz there are more ergonomic objects for that
 
12:36 PM
@nwp like what, another smaller smartphone?
I would love to get Glass, but it apparently got canceled or someshit
 
Ven
it's business-oriented nowadays. w&s
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, it's not all that clear. It's still gonna fit in your pocket, right?
 
@Puppy not really
I rarely put my current phone in my pocket
if it was bigger I can't really see that being practical or comfortable
 
Ven
SmartHandset
 
@blelbach Wait, like forever dead?
 
12:39 PM
sounds like your pockets are too small
 
@blelbach I'm still thinking ;p
 
my pockets fit my old fat iphone in a case like a brick
 
I don't think a pocket is a good place for a smartphone anyway
I carry it in my bag
 
why?
 
Ven
huh.
 
12:40 PM
because the stiff 4 inches make me uncomfortable
13
 
that's insufficient pocket size again
 
Ven
@BartekBanachewicz ok. grmbl
 
the feeling of your phone in your pocket reassures you that you'e got it and it's not lost or someshit
 
Ven
also, iphones are not stiff, they bend.
 
@Puppy I am not gonna change all of my clothes just to be able to carry a phone
 
12:41 PM
yeah but it's really not about just the phone
like what do you do with your wallet?
 
I carry it in my bag
carrying a wallet in your trousers is super bad style-wise anyway
 
so basically, your pocket sare too small to carry any number of convenience items
the phone's just one example
 
same with phone really
 
it'd be a lot cheaper to fix the trousers and be able to carry more stuff
 
@blelbach I think I should find out if I can go there and not have that week counted towards my annual leave (otherwise I'd be left with like 4 days of annual leave after that, which frankly wouldn't be very good).
 
12:42 PM
32 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
carrying a wallet in your trousers is super bad style-wise anyway
 
anyway I gotta go to work so we can resume this later
 
TL;DR
It took me a while to stop carrying everything in my pockets, but no regrets now
it's much more comfortable and I save myself the ritual of unpacking everything when I want to sit down
 
Ven
the wallet thing is a bit annoying
 
no one comes to the lounge to look at butt, please be more professional next time
 
besides I have such a nice bag that not using it would be a shame
@Ven I have plans to get rid of my wallet soon anyway
and replace it with a superslim something + a separate thing for coins
 
Ell
12:48 PM
@BartekBanachewicz how will you pay for things? :3
oh right
 
Ven
give me your money
 
@BartekBanachewicz So where do you carry it now?
 
In Poland the CC infrastructure is so developed I can go for months w/o conventional money
you can pay p much anywhere for any amount
 
Nice
 
@Shoe in my bag
 
12:50 PM
I still prefer paying with actual money when drinking alcohol, kinda for safety...
 
Like, alcohol limit safety, not card safety or anything :P
 
Is it illegal to drink alcohol where you live?
 
Ell
@Griwes I tell myself this
then I go ahead and use my card after my cash is spent :V
 
12:51 PM
I don't drink too much anyway
 
@Ell :D
 
@Griwes You can always say you bought it to a beautiful blonde at the bar
 
nwp
I only use "conventional" money, I don't want my bank to know everything about me
 
besides seriously... when one IPA costs as much as 4 cheap beers, it kinda stops making sense
@nwp I like that part, because my bank automagically tags my spendings
saves you a lot of budgeting
the only thing that's still freaking annoying are receipts
 
user1804599
Teacher wants to not teach about Armenian genocide because it may offend students
 
12:52 PM
I so, so, sooooooooo wish my receipts were saved on my card
 
nwp
well, don't be surprised if your insurance rate goes up after you went to the bar a few too many times
 
@nwp insurance for what?
 
nwp
health insurance?
 
@nwp Assuming it's your bank that insures you...?
 
@nwp that's... not how it works here
 
nwp
12:53 PM
@Griwes no, assuming your bank sells your credit card information
 
I don't think they can
 
@nwp Isn't that deeply illegal in, like, all the countries in the world?
 
nwp
people get drone murdered and tortured from the land of the free, I don't think "illegal" has much weight anymore
 
@nwp ok, I don't do discourse with paranoidal maniacs
 
nwp
if you are powerful enough that is
 
Ell
12:55 PM
@BartekBanachewicz if you like the cheap stuff, drink the cheap stuff I guess
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz that bad? :D
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz me too
 
@nwp ah, so it's that kind of a discussion
 
Ell
I would pay for that
 
@Ell yeah just pointing out that money has hardly any correlation to actual alcohol content
 
nwp
12:55 PM
@Griwes nah, that was just a side comment
 
Ell
@Griwes I thought that was par for the course vOv
 
@Ell IKEA does that and then some other stores, but no standard way. Suckage.
 
Ell
@BartekBanachewicz I wouldn't say hardly any :P
 
nwp
point is, I try not to give out my data if I don't have to, knowing it will be abused earlier or later
 
Ell
I think it has quite a strong correlation
 
Ven
12:56 PM
@Ell that's because you don't get drunk enough to not remember the code
 
Ell
lol
 
@nwp so you manually calculate your spending for every single thing you buy?
That sounds... primitive
 
Ven
@rightfold ban him from education
 
Or do you have like 5 preallocated wallets
 
nwp
@BartekBanachewicz no, I put 200€ in my pocket and when I run out I put another 200€ in my pocket
 
12:57 PM
So you have absolutely no overview on what you're spending the money on
That's even more primitive and hardly sounds like a bargain give the only gain is feeding your inner paranoia
 
Ell
You could say the same about you feeding your inner naivety
 
@Ell You're trading measurable gains today for potential unknown and most likely nonexistent losses.
There's a huge difference here.
 
Ell
whatever you say vOv
 
nwp
the money goes into food. Rent, insurance stuff and amazon goes from the account and I rarely buy cloths, and when I do I know that.
 

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