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8:00 PM
So a single thread is fast enough to hit the bus limit.
Multithreading has no benefit.
 
@ThePhD Had to compensate for the 6 hours I wasted because of a shitty .obj loading lib ;)
 
Ell
Well tesco is a bad
 
vlad the compiler
eerie
 
@Mikhail In the end, I ended with something that had super-linear scaling on a quad-opteron. Hard to believe, but it happened. That algorithm went into my Pi program in 2013. And according to some hardware testers, it seems to scale very well quad-Haswell servers as well.
 
@StackedCrooked What did you do for multiple threads to have the same performance?
 
8:04 PM
@Nican Fixed my test basically.
It was a horrible test.
 
@Mysticial Well the issue I was bringing up was resource (memory bandwidth) per thread allocation, which can only be solved by a smarter scheduling system. I think thats where things like #pragma parallel will really shine.
 
@Nican He did- that's the problem.
 
Well. That's not buying me any followers, is it :~
 
@Mysticial Bandwidth is at least a curable problem (to some degree). Bigger problem (IMO) is latency to main memory (which has improved even less than bandwidth).
 
6960X, come to me, bby. Damn Q3 of 2015.
 
8:06 PM
@JerryCoffin Fortunately, latency is less important since it's well hidden with prefetching and HT.
Which you probably remember when I was bitching about how I spent a night prefetching out a cache miss which gave 5% single-threaded. But disappeared when multi-threading.
 
@Mysticial Can be hidden, depending on what you're doing. For quite a few tasks, however, it's the major bottleneck, and if the usage pattern isn't fairly predictable, prefetching gives little or not help at all.
 
@Mysticial The real problem I see is with my task parallel/assembly line style system where each thread is doing something else. In my case I have a camera thats taking in data, CPU that does some pre-processing and a GPU for high throughput stuff. How do I check that its running efficiently?
 
@Mysticial Does sound vaguely familiar...
 
@JerryCoffin I remember this talk about numa that mentioned bandwidth rather than latency is more often a bottleneck.
 
8:11 PM
@StackedCrooked Well latency is a much more of an issue for parallel clusters, like large numa nodes and co-array clusters... On the Cray systems I used access times were like 4 micro seconds (which was really good)
 
@набиячлевэлиь Telling me what to do tends to make me reconsider
 
@sehe Reconsider.
 
Sadly there is no undo
 
@sehe I did nuthin'!
 
I dunno. People do it more often. Not bothered to see whether it was you before :)
 
8:13 PM
@JerryCoffin Perhaps we need a different architecture for that kind of data processing? I really liked the ThreadStorm architecture because it had tons thousands of of threads waiting for data. wwwjp.cray.com/downloads/XMT-Presentation.pdf
 
@Mikhail HT on steroids?
Xeon Phi has 4-way SMT. And I believe GPUs do something similar by context switching on a cache miss.
 
@Mysticial Yes, its an architecture that assumes the main job of a CPU is to wait on memory
 
user1804599
Perl 6 regex syntax is like EBNF on steroids.
 
@Mikhail That's not a bad assumption.
 
@elyse Steroids on EBNF
 
8:17 PM
ok
new record for SSTO d/v in LKO, at 3kdv
 
Perl syntax is like Perl on drugs
3
 
user1804599
<expr> %% ',' means "zero or more <expr>s separated by , with an optional , at the end if at least one <expr> matched"
 
user1804599
which is exactly what I need in shitloads of cases
 
It's funny when you put regex and EBNF in the same sentence
 
not really
 
8:18 PM
@Mikhail Personally, I think it probably does make sense to think/work in terms of a lot more parallelism in general. Unfortunately, I can't really talk much about what I think would be a good architecture though.
 
user1804599
also GitHub syntax highlighting can't \begin{verbatim}..\end{verbatim}.
 
surprising :/
 
user1804599
my editor can do it just fine :v
 
hi i need help on compiling a c++ open source project that need librairies to be cmaked so i have some question
if you may help me please
 
@Puppy nice
 
user1804599
8:20 PM
@MohammedHousseynTaleb sure, ask away
 
@ElimGarak I could do better I think, fired my rocket engine too early
 
user1804599
we are here to help people with C++ problems, afterall :)
 
@Mysticial Okay, so a thread in a warp tries to get data and misses its cache, then the warp stalls (the whole warp?) ? How does the warp wake up (is it round robin?)
 
user1804599
inb4 wall of code
 
8:21 PM
@Mikhail Ask @AnastasiyaAsadullayeva. I'm not the GPU expert.
 
Last time, I was actually building a starship in orbit, launching an interesting interstellar expedition is really difficult directly from Kerbin.
 
my project is called ginkgo is a dicom client
is on github
or source forge
 
Logistics and lining up is quite annoying, tho. Might go ahead and work more.
 
i (fighting it) 5 days no stop
 
@Mysticial ...and high-end SPARCs are doing 8-way SMT.
 
8:22 PM
i have 2 main question
i learned how to make the release of the libraries
but where to put them i dont have any clue
 
user1804599
what OS are you on?
 
try a storage medium
 
in the compile readme they say add the libs to ginkgo dll/lib tree
 
@Mysticial Would it make sense to store part of my data on a remote numa node in order to benefit from the spreading out of the ram accesses?
 
i m on win7
 
user1804599
8:23 PM
and which compilation toolchain do you use?
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah. In school, the Power7 machine I played with had 4-way. Though I think only 2-way was enabled.
 
i use ms vs 2012
 
@StackedCrooked Depends on a lot of things. The rule of thumb is - moving things around is expensive. But there are some corner cases where that might work if the interconnect is faster than the memory.
 
user1804599
 
there is 3 libreries that i compiled and released successfully
 
8:24 PM
> released
 
Ell
lieberries
 
yum
 
@Mysticial I see.
 
@Mysticial Or when you don't need to get the data again...
 
8:25 PM
@StackedCrooked In short, explicit NUMA programming is a real bitch.
 
@elyse thanks that helped me allooooot because i started msvs only this week and i never used it before
 
I spent a few years playing with the quad-opteron that someone gave me. In short, I never found a feasible way to do any serious NUMA program that was in anyway reliable and scalable.
Basically, I could do better by "using as little memory bandwidth as possible", than to explicitly manage NUMA regions.
 
user1804599
I faced this problem in Vlinder.
 
@Mikhail Yes, the whole warp stalls. Scheduling...I'm not sure nVidia has ever published much enough details to say for sure whether it's pure RR, or uses priorities, or what exactly.
 
user1804599
cast[[T: *](T) => ()] has a problem that [T: *](T) => () has kind [*] => *, but cast expects a type parameter of kind *.
 
8:28 PM
I bind my workers on a node and don't directly access their memory from a remote node. So I use message passing rather than locks.
 
user1804599
So I'd need abstraction over kinds.
 
user1804599
But then also over sorts.
 
user1804599
And so on ad infinitum.
 
@ScottW You are kind--but much more concrete than abstract.
 
Oh my god...
I've been using school toilet paper for a while now
Finally opened a roll of my own
So soft and kind to my ass. It was wonderful.
Never going back to that paper bullshit again.
 
8:31 PM
@Mysticial I'd like to try. But in the current code base it's already hopeless..
 
@ThePhD Good toilet tissue is one of the truly under-rated good parts of life.
 
@StackedCrooked If I hadn't relocated, I could give you remote access to the box to toy around with. But right now, it's sitting at home under my desk at home collecting dust along with my dual-Xeon box with 64GB of ram.
 
Running grep over ssh is much faster than locally grepping on a remote mount. I think this idea can be applied to programming with numa.
 
now to my second question
 
Ell
@ScottW it call-assed
 
8:34 PM
plz is any one know what i have to do to apply patches on dcmtk
knowing i have the patch
how to do it
 
start with spelling lessons. And patience.
 
@sehe
i m verry sorry for my spelling
 
@Mysticial Well. Currently there are two boxes at work that I can freely use. They are E5-2690 v2 and a E5-2690 v3.
First has 2x10 cores. Other one has 2x16 cores.
 
@StackedCrooked Neither of those are heavily NUMA. So you probably wouldn't notice.
 
@elyse I didn't really follow what happened today, what does your rttictor do exactly?
 
8:36 PM
because i have english in my fourth language
 
@Mysticial Well, they are dual socket..
 
user1804599
@Morwenn It's a library that allows runtime construction of std::type_info objects and vtables.
 
user1804599
This is useful for my VM, so that I can use C++ objects and Vlinder objects with a common base class.
 
@StackedCrooked The cross-socket latency is only like 30% higher than local. On the quad-Opterons, it's much much worse.
 
@MohammedHousseynTaleb The point being laziness, not the mistakes
@MohammedHousseynTaleb ^
 
8:37 PM
IOW, on the dual-socket Intels, you can effectively treat them as uniform memory machines.
 
@elyse Oh, I guess that I don't know enough about those to fully understand the advantage :/
 
@Mysticial Interesting.
 
user1804599
@Morwenn say you want to implement an object model for C# in C++
 
user1804599
because you're writing a CLR in C++
 
@StackedCrooked Quad-socket is sort of the minimum if you want to see real NUMA effects.
 
8:38 PM
Interesting speech, powerful delivery: tinyurl.com/nqkgped (on moderate majority vs. radical minorities)
 
i see
 
Otherwise, it's hard to notice outside of an artificial benchmark like this:
27
Q: Measuring NUMA (Non-Uniform Memory Access). No observable asymmetry. Why?

James BrockI've tried to measure the asymmetric memory access effects of NUMA, and failed. The Experiment Performed on an Intel Xeon X5570 @ 2.93GHz, 2 CPUs, 8 cores. On a thread pinned to core 0, I allocate an array x of size 10,000,000 bytes on core 0's NUMA node with numa_alloc_local. Then I iterate ...

 
user1804599
There are some special internal types that you can't implement in C# itself, such as int.
 
@Mysticial ...especially if you start with the assumption that all memory access is expensive, and just do your best to minimize it in general, and do you best to use predictable access patterns when you need to (which is pretty much what I'd interpret as the approach you were advocating earlier in any case).
 
user1804599
So you implement them in C++
 
user1804599
8:39 PM
struct object { virtual ~object() = default; };
struct int_ : object { int value; };
 
user1804599
but now you also want to make more subclasses of object at runtime, i.e. when assemblies get loaded
 
Yes.
 
user1804599
so you need to patch around vptrs and type_infos
 
user1804599
that's what this library makes easy
 
Ok, I more or less get it.
 
8:41 PM
@JerryCoffin Yeah. One of the "successful" experiments that I did back in 2012 was to have an explicit region of memory that is "guaranteed" to always be in cache. All work and computation is done in that region. If I need to access other memory, it first needs to be copied into that region.
That approach - though brutal and reaps of overhead, works... Very well - in the asymptotic cases which I described yesterday night.
 
@elyse That doesn't really follow.
 
@Mysticial One of those beautifully counter-intuitive methods that I can easily imagine working pretty well.
 
just because int is special doesn't mean you implement it in C++
 
@Mysticial Isn't the copying itself already defeating the goal?
 
> Never believe anything until it has been officially denied!
 
8:44 PM
@Ell :P
It's Friday!
 
@StackedCrooked You're minimizing the # of time you need to access the "outside" memory.
 
user1804599
@Puppy uh, you could implement it differently, but this discussion is about this particular way of implementing it
 
@Mysticial Hm, I suppose it also helps to reduce TLB pressure?
 
@StackedCrooked I'd guess not--copying uses linear access so it's very predictable.
 
@StackedCrooked If you're streaming something, you really only need to touch everything once. (twice if you're reading/writing) The "explicit cache" region enforces that.
 
8:45 PM
hi all
 
@StackedCrooked What he's basically saying is that the time to copy from cold to hot is less than the time to make the cache heat up the new section.
 
Similar to something I've pointed out a number of times for years: access to local variables is usually very cheap, because the page or two at/near the top of the stack will essentially always be in cache.
 
@ElimGarak the @Nooble is alive, go lick him
 
Nooble <3
 
@Mysticial But you might as well adopt the other memory into your active group and evict an unused part from it.
 
8:47 PM
@ElimGarak Elim <3
 
@StackedCrooked It'll take time for the cache to warm up.
more time than it takes for the copy, it seems.
 
@Puppy Exactly. Especially when the hardware prefetchers fail or when cache associativity becomes a problem.
 
I don't really understand.
If you need to sort an array, will you copy it into your arena and sort it there?
That seems wasteful.
 
There's overhead that needs to be overcome.
So it doesn't work for all applications.
I had my doubts prior to trying it.
If you want to be efficient, the copy can be merged into the computation itself. Thereby eliminating all the overhead except for the bookkeeping.
 
@StackedCrooked I suspect it works best in cases where your normal access pattern is relatively difficult to predict, so the hardware prefetchers are doing you little or no good. If you copy once instead (which uses a pattern where the hardware prefetchers can work really well) then do the unpredictable access in a range that's already in the cache, I can see a good possibility for a fairly large win.
 
8:54 PM
I suppose copy from remote node followed by sorting locally is better than performing the sorting algorithm over the interconnect.
 
@JerryCoffin That's a good hypothesis. I never really tried to figure out exactly where the speedup was coming from. But that's definitely on the list.
 
However, CPU cache already gives you a local copy.
 
@StackedCrooked They have limitations. Such as associativity.
 
what are you optimizing?
 
Haha. Jimmy Hendrix wasn't the ideal soldier
 
8:55 PM
In the cases i was dealing with (FFTs), the memory access is almost entirely super-aligned. So associativity will kill you if you tried to do something in-place in memory.
 
@Mysticial I'd think "size" is the prime limitation.
4
 
@StackedCrooked That's what she said
 
Copying the data into contiguous "cache" memory, eliminates that problem. (or rather, pushes it to the lower cache levels which don't have as much penalty)
 
Instastar.
 
Ell
does anyone here have firefox & netflix & linux?
I can't tell from googling whether it works yet
 
8:58 PM
@sehe I completely did not recognize the surname.
 
@Mysticial how many bytes is such copy typically?
 
user1804599
hmm]
 
user1804599
> Every instance of U+000D followed by U+000A in source is replaced by U+000A.
 
user1804599
would you interpret this as s/\r\n/\n/g or s/\r\n/\n\n/g?
 
user1804599
English is terrible at this kind of stuff.
 
user1804599
8:59 PM
wait, I have an idea :)
 
@StackedCrooked Probably around 128 or 256 blocks of 1k each. (give or take a factor of 2 - 8 depending on the settings) Each block is contiguous. But the blocks are effectively random in memory. Furthermore, the blocks are super-aligned with respect to each other. So it's impossible to keep more than like 16 blocks at a time in cache without copying them.
 
posted on September 18, 2015 by Eric Battalio

Another Friday, another survey . We get it. Surveys can be annoying (but not our survey ). But they can also be a good way to help us understand larger patterns around a feature, scenario or experience. Hence the onslaught of surveys (including this...(read more)

 
@Mysticial It would seem useful if the required data is multiple parts scattered across memory. Gathering it into a contiguous region and perform the computations there would help I think. But if the required data is already contiguous then I see no point.
 
It's pure coincidence that the link to the mathematical proof of this kernel being unhackable is a 404 https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22730392-600-unhackable-kernel-could-keep-all-computers-safe-from-cyberattack-2/ (HT @dragosr)
 
@Mysticial Aha. I didn't read that yet. Ignore my previous comment :)
 
9:03 PM
Thanks for telling me :)
(I'm also not a fan. It's funny letter though)
 
Btw, what is "super-aligned"?
 
@StackedCrooked When two addresses are "super-aligned" they differ by a large power-of-two or a multiple of a large power-of-two.
 
Oh you mean they collide
 
The lower fits of the address collide.
 
@elyse Disambiguate Every occurrence of the codepoint sequence (U+000D followed by U+000A) is replaced by the single codepoint U+000A (feel free to s/codepoint//)
 
user1804599
9:05 PM
@sehe No, did it differently.
 
user1804599
 
@elyse That's a hilariously bad spec. /Which/ sed will be used? Is it part of the specs? What if the target implementation cannot invoke external processes? etc. (e.g. I'm pretty sure sed on windows will not match \r$ in text files)
 
@StackedCrooked If it's contiguous, you could still get unnecessary cache pollution. If you're reading from memory, but you're doing local things in-place and writing to it unnecessarily, then the processor needs to write it back to memory. Thus using up double the bandwidth.
 
user1804599
@sehe I couldn't care less.
 
Then why specify at all
 
9:08 PM
Under which conditions does is write-back to memory required?
Gap in my knowledge..
 
@StackedCrooked The moment you write to the cache-line.
 
user1804599
I could specify the expected version and platform of sed in a footnote.
 
A similar thing happens in the other directly. If you're writing to a bunch of memory without reading it, take the penalty of reading from memory to load the cacheline. So Intel introduced special streaming instructions to let you write without reading from memory.
 
All writes to cache are write-through to ram?
 
user1804599
@sehe hmm actually
 
user1804599
9:10 PM
whether it translates CRLF to LF or LFLF doesn't matter
 
user1804599
the semantics of the final program are identical
 
@elyse More reason not to specify. Just specify the behaviour or semantics. Don't bother with (ill-specified!) methods
 
user1804599
since LFLF is collapsed into LF just before semicolon insertion
 
@StackedCrooked Regardless of the cache policy, if a cacheline is written to, it will eventually be written back to memory. (definitely when it gets evicted, but it may be earlier)
 
So the point is to compress all writes into a small number of cache lines?
 
9:12 PM
Or to avoid writing if possible.
 
Sure.
 
@Mysticial This is my approach to s/w development throughout the workday
 
no code no cry
 
reggae be chill
Haha! I got a concerned DM that it seems like my account has been hacked and is being used to promote a diet. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's cute
 
Basically, when get to the point where you're touching memory only once. You can start using tricks which special instructions which will let you bypass the cache completely. IOW, I don't want the "external memory" that I'm touching to pollute the cache since I already have my "explicit cache" and I know what the fuck I'm doing.
 
@Mysticial Btw, I recently learned that Intel's packet processing library dpdk has a memory pool that spreads objects equally across channels and ranks. Is this something you'd take into consideration as well?
 
@elyse xD
 
@StackedCrooked Spreading out memory is a good thing if you want to avoid contention for a single node.
If you allocate all your memory from one thread, it may end up on one node. Then when you multi-thread access that memory from all cores and nodes, they all hammer that one node - bad idea.
 
@Mysticial Ah. That completes the puzzle for me.
 
9:20 PM
If you spread it out randomly, you'll hurt the performance of the cores on that one node, but you'll make it better for everyone else. (and you get the full bandwidth)
 
> In addition, the reserved words PIC and PICTURE are case-insensitive as per COBOL.
What does that mean?
Is COBOL a date specification?
 
user1804599
That Pic and PiC and picture are also reserved words.
 
> as per COBOL
 
user1804599
and identical to PIC and PICTURE
 
?
Maybe you should try to actually specify things
 
user1804599
9:21 PM
hmm
 
user1804599
I could add TODOs.
 
You could. Don't forget // TODO drop gh repo when you do
 
user1804599
also anti-joke sehe
 
I didn't know vlinder-lang was supposed to be a joke
 
user1804599
it's software
 
user1804599
9:22 PM
of course it's a joke
 
that's comforting
 
user1804599
picture types are great
 
@CatPlusPlus actually, that's funny. It's bzip2, and I was suprised as well. So I thought let's see:
time 7z e -so stackoverflow.com-Posts.7z | lzma -z -c -9 -e | wc
It's been running > 151 minutes now
 
user1804599
let x: PIC 9999 = "1234"
assert(x + x = "2468")
 
what does it do?
 
9:25 PM
What does PIC do, anyway?
 
@JohanLarsson 'transcodes' to lzma high compression and reports the resulting compressed size
 
user1804599
COBOL (/ˈkoʊbɒl/, an acronym for common business-oriented language) is a compiled English-like computer programming language designed for business use. It is imperative, procedural and, since 2002, object-oriented. COBOL is primarily used in business, finance, and administrative systems for companies and governments. In 1997, Gartner Group estimated that there were a total of 200 billion lines of COBOL in existence, which ran 80% of all business programs. COBOL is still widely used in legacy applications deployed on mainframe computers, such as large-scale batch and transaction processing jobs...
 
I like the picture.
 
user1804599
I like complicating things for no reason.
 
@sehe the reinstall failed
 
user1804599
9:27 PM
except to keep it challenging
 
@JohanLarsson how so
 
@sehe dunno, IT has some script I invoked by pressing F12 after BIOS. Clicked next a couple of times and it said the reinstall would take two hours. When I came back it had booted my old install.
 
user1804599
ok @sehe how about this: "Every instance of code point sequence U+000D U+000A in source is replaced with U+000A."
 
Simple, clear, works
 
9:47 PM
@elyse "replaced with" could carry implications you may not want. Lacking a reason to do otherwise, I'd say something more like: "instances of the code point U+0000D that are followed immediately by the code point U+000A will be ignored".
 
user1804599
dat code so so bad
 
why? Some uses of if/else could be replaced with ternary operators, but other than that, it's more readable than most of C++ template masturbation
 
user1804599
look at the URL
 
user1804599
I linked to the C# code, not the C++ code.
 
doesn't matter
 
Ell
9:58 PM
; had sex
 
it's more readable than most of C++ template masturbation
 
user1804599
the C# code is really bad
 
user1804599
looks like it was written by @ThePhD
 
@milleniumbug I like [C++ template] masturbation.
 
C++ code is worse than that
 
user1804599
10:00 PM
while(isMale == false) {
    Console.Write("Is that a male or female name? [m/f] ");
    sex = Console.ReadLine().ToLower().ToCharArray()[0].ToString();
    if(sex == "m") { isMale = true; } else if(sex == "f") { break; }
}
if (isMale){ addThis = "He "; }else{ addThis = "She "; }
 
user1804599
this loop WTF
 
> sex = Console.ReadLine().ToLower().ToCharArray()[0].ToString();
if(sex == "m") { isMale = true; } else if(sex == "f") { break; }
 
user1804599
why would you do it that way
 
user1804599
probably still better than most C# code in production though
 
ok I withdraw my statement about code clearity
 
10:01 PM
@elyse I think it is about average
 
@JohanLarsson I hate to sound old, but: what is the world coming to?
 
how do you mean?
 
hmmm, in an if statement like this: if(int whatever = 0) { } else { } is whatever visible in else scope?
 
Of course it is
 
nice
 
user1804599
10:04 PM
@milleniumbug yes
 
@JohanLarsson I mean if that's even close to the average, things seem to have dropped back to about the level I expected in FORTRAN IV.
 
I don't have much data but that looks about average to me.
 
that is substantially lower than the average in our codebase I feel
 
Task save = new Task(new Action(() => _orderService.SaveOrderParametersAsync(parameters)));
save.Start();
Task.WaitAny(new Task[] { save });
I found ^ in our code
I would not be able to beat it if someone said: 'You have a week to come up with the dumbest thing you can'
absolutely jam packed with dumb
 
How could it be rewritten to be more, um, normal?
 
10:10 PM
await _orderService.SaveOrderParametersAsync(parameters);
 
^ would be without bugs also
 
It must have been some kind of fuzzyig proces to get it to compile
 
@JohanLarsson It was actually being translated from C# to VB by way of JavaScript to get the compiler to accept it.
 
10:17 PM
@elyse looks clearer already, but Jerry's remark is nice
 
user1804599
@JerryCoffin hmm
 
user1804599
@sehe I must have missed it.
 
Now you unmissed it :)
Dayum. LZMA be slow. 3.5 hours and counting
Actually. Strike that. Ctrl-C is my friend.
 
you have noting but friends
 
@sehe Slow can become a lot more tolerable very quickly if it at least gives a reasonable (and regularly updated) estimate of remaining time.
 
10:21 PM
yeah
when drawing CAD it was not uncommon to be in a situation where having waited for fifteen minutes and not knowing if the process was frozen and dead or close to finishing
Checking task manager and seeing if there was memory activity was a way to figure out if waiting was worth it
 
@elyse we're still out btw
If you want to join us for a beer
 
user1804599
no
 
user1804599
I'm not near Rotterdam at all.
 
Ell
hey now
be polite
this nice boy has invited you to drink with him
politely explain that your current whereabouts means that you are unavailable
 
@Ell Fuck no. I'm not near Rotterdam at all, sir.
 
Ell
10:31 PM
@JerryCoffin That's better, Private Coffin
 
@JerryCoffin I know. I didn't have the foresight to insert mbuffer or pv
 
Ell's on a roll
 
guise
 
@Ell I am not now, nor was I ever, a private. I had the good sense to enslave myself to enlist in the Air Force, which abused us differently ensured we were well fed and treated with respect.
 
10:34 PM
@TonyTheLion are you in Rotterdam?
Nobody is asking. But I'll stay at home. Kids :S
 
Now this is a type to behold: map<vector<system_variant_t>, map<string, string>>
 
You keep doing that. Why not at least use some descriptive aliases
 
Not as good bad as that 170-char long one from yesterday but still
 
Better yet, create an abstract data type that is implemented in these terms. Think carefully of the minimum requires "surface interface" and delegate those.
This will likely make you realize better datastructure choices while thinking about the interface and makes it possible to swap the implementation out for something more satisfying if you need.
Best of all, you end up with reasonable readable code
 
Is map<system_variants_t, macros_t> better?
 
10:38 PM
Do you think it is better?
What is the difference down the road?
 
It certainly does look like it is
 
I think so too
 
@sehe I'm not in Rotterdam, neither have I ever been there. Is it nice there?
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin How about Corporal Coffin? That has a nice ring to it
But really - I don't know what rank you were
or what ranks the air force has :P
 
@TonyTheLion I think it's a little bit foggy, with a slight chance of brateks
 
10:41 PM
oh noes
was just checking if you were livecoding
but, alas, not
 
Unless I misunderstood. The prime minister didn't mention his visit in the press conference
@TonyTheLion nothing worthwhile on SO. The only thing I coded was for this and it took... 10 minutes or so
Not even sure it helps the OP (he's still mighty confused)
 
> std::polar
 
That's a thing. I swear
 
For complex numbers.
 
Yeah. Well. Sorry. I am what I am
Don't leave that hanging :(
I'm starting to feel bad for a manipulative punny joke
 
10:48 PM
@Ell Corporal is another of those Army (and probably Marines) ranks. I wasn't very rank though--I took a shower nearly every day.
 
Hey, std::polar got an update for C++17.
 
Oh, but there was that day we had to build a "forward operating location" in (pretty much) a desert though. Hard manual work in hot sun while wearing chemical warfare gear. I'm pretty sure I was quite rank before I (finally) got to take a shower.
 
@Morwenn Cool. Always be firing!
@JerryCoffin hehe
 
@sehe Even now (30 or so years after the fact) it's hard to look back on that without feeling at least a little miserable. Seriously, when I got undressed, there was enough sweat in the boots I probably could have completely filled a drinking glass from each one.
 
But you lived
 
10:56 PM
But he was sweaty
 
@sehe I'm pretty sure there were a couple of times I wished I hadn't.
 
Not sure what you mean with the chemical warfare gear.
Also, what were you building, a hut or tent or something?
 
inb4 gas mask
 
user1804599
Change name & gender on Facebook y/n
 
delete account
 
10:58 PM
only gender?
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin wow, I can't imagine
 
user1804599
Johan no also name
 
name from to?
 
user1804599
From Radek to Elyse
 
whoa
> If the CPU registers are how long it takes you to fetch data from your brain, then going to disk is the equivalent of fetching data from Pluto.
 

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