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11:03 PM
Simona Halep (; born 27 September 1991) is a Romanian professional tennis player and the current Romanian No. 1. She is currently ranked a career high number 4 in the world. Halep first broke into the world's top 50 at the end of 2012, and won her first 6 WTA titles in the same calendar year in 2013 (a feat that was last achieved by Steffi Graf in 1986 when she won her first 7), being named the WTA's Most Improved Player at its end, as well as being named ESPN Center Court's 2013 Most Improved Player. Career Halep's father, Stere (a former footballer at Săgeata Stejaru playing in the l...
apparently she's now 4th in the WTA thingy
which is the highest position for a Romanian female tennis player ever
 
hmm
I cannot begin to sum up how incredibly irrelevant to everything that is.
 
@AlexM. Somewhat relevant
 
My stupid question from 2010 about finding C++ array lengths is still getting upvoted. ;_;
 
it staggers me that anybody would care what patch of land a person whose sole apparent achievement is hitting a ball around a patch of grass
 
@DeadMG what's relevant to what at any point in time though?
 
11:05 PM
@Maxpm youre sad about free rep?
 
It just feels wrong.
 
@Borgleader She knows.
 
@Maxpm Being pissed about free rep is wrong yes
 
@Borgleader lol yeah I was getting to that part too
 
I like the way you think :) You're a bit slower than me, but I didn't know about -l to pv, so +1 — sehe 1 min ago
 
11:06 PM
@DeadMG a patch of boob though..
 
I think she's the cutest tennis player right now
 
@Jefffrey I wonder if that guy knows he's now famous for this picture xD
 
@Jefffrey mmm interesting newness
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit: nonsense. meaningless distinction. silly. — Cheers and hth. - Alf 1 min ago
moron
 
@Maxpm you're getting rewarded for asking a question that other people want the answer to, in a way that is easy for them to find
that's how SO is supposed to work
although it does look like it should be a duplicate of something; Mjölnir could do with some exercise
 
11:11 PM
lol. that's gonna be a meme now
 
@ecatmur you want to mark as duplicate a 4yr old question? wow
 
-1 meaningless philosophical gibberish with no observable effect. — Cheers and hth. - Alf 11 mins ago
ahahahahahaha
 
what the hell is going on there?
 
Alf decided not to admit that he was wrong.
4
 
@AlexM. Comment Kombat feat LRiO vs Alf
 
11:15 PM
@AlexM. Standard Alf
he's a character
 
I don't like that answer tbh
decltype(lvalue) is T&
if (x) is an expression then decltype((x)) also returns T&.
 
So you're saying that despite *p not being of reference type, (*p) is?
Because I'd believe that if you were
 
-1: *p is not a reference (5.3.1/1). — Lightness Races in Orbit 43 mins ago
Didn't know that.
 
Nor did I until I met SO
got a question somewhere hang on
 
Doesn't make any sense either, AFAIKS.
 
user3010322
11:18 PM
This is a lot of fuss over something that hardly matters. <_>
 
> My cat once threw up on the carpet, my brother saw it and then threw up on top of it... My dog then came along and ate it all. Animals are fucked up.
 
main.cpp:10:5: error: static_assert failed "..."
    static_assert(std::is_same<int, decltype(*y)>::value, "...");
    ^             ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit So what's decltype(*p)? T?
 
no it's T&
 
> If the type of the expression is “pointer to T,” the type of the result is “T.”
 
11:20 PM
T-Ref is king of typosaurs.
 
sigh, pulls out standard.
 
bah, must have been deleted
 
5p5
 
@Rapptz decltype has its oddities, though. *p isn't in and of itself, of reference type
 
> If an expression initially has the type “reference to T” (8.3.2, 8.5.3), the type is adjusted to T prior to any further analysis. The expression designates the object or function denoted by the reference, and the expression is an lvalue or an xvalue, depending on the expression.
 
11:21 PM
5.3.1/1 says that clearly
 
user3010322
But isn't that just for the purposes of analysis?
 
you guys keep bringing up C++ stuff I've never seen before every day
is there even an end to the language?
can it all be learned?
 
user3010322
No.
 
@AlexM. pretty much the reason im here :P
 
11:22 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Are you playing on some kind of "lvalue != reference" bs?
 
that and the shenanigans
 
there are no shenanigans
 
Something's definitely fucky here with the wording.
 
@Jefffrey no..
 
@Jefffrey value category and reference type are distinct concepts
 
11:24 PM
value category and type are orthgonal
 
it works as long as you don't think about it too hard
 
dereferencing gives you an lvalue, and that lvalue is of a non-reference type
 
well, today I used initializer lists, I think that's what they're called :D
Vec2f(float x, float y) : X(x), Y(y) {};
yay!
 
but if you are going to think about it hard, you need to use the right terminology
 
> If the type of the expression is “pointer to T,” the type of the result is “T.”
It's not ambiguous or "fucky"
 
11:25 PM
Is header-only the only sane way of doing C++, discuss
 
user3010322
Maybe sometimes hopefully.
 
I hate when people do that "discuss" thing
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit What's the practical difference between lvalue and T&?
 
@jalf i hate ppl
 
@Jefffrey That's like asking what is the practical difference between Rightfold and lightness (N.B. lowercase 'l'). It's unanswerable.
 
11:26 PM
@Jefffrey One's a value category and the other is a type
 
I wonder how a language where you'd be able to change the numeric constants themselves would work
also I'm drinking, so...
 
@AlexM. congrats. Now fix the member naming :)
 
I think my old question on this got deleted :( Can't search for it and can't find it in my profile. Grr.
 
but really, doing something like 4=6
 
> practical
 
11:26 PM
None
 
and anything having the value 4 suddenly becomes 6
 
@jalf Why? discuss
 
decltype(e) where e is an l-value is T&
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Then the answer is: none.
 
@sehe how should I do that?
 
11:27 PM
Noone on mamble conclusion you all suck
 
@AlexM. FORTRAN.
 
And T& is a reference type, correct?
 
@ecatmur is it possible in FORTRAN?
 
yes
 
@AlexM. adhere to some kind of commonly acepted convention (m_x, x, x ...)
 
11:27 PM
PI = 3
 
@AlexM. also in Python and Java
 
@Jefffrey Yes
 
The type denoted by decltype(e) is defined as follows:
— if e is an unparenthesized id-expression or an unparenthesized class member access (5.2.5), decltype(e)
is the type of the entity named by e. If there is no such entity, or if e names a set of overloaded functions,
the program is ill-formed;
— otherwise, if e is an xvalue, decltype(e) is T&&, where T is the type of e;
— otherwise, if e is an lvalue, decltype(e) is T&, where T is the type of e;
— otherwise, decltype(e) is the type of e.
 
Then LRiO is clearly mocking Alf, this time.
 
11:28 PM
anything that interns small integers
 
@Jefffrey I'm not mocking anyone
 
@sehe yeah I sort of transferred Microsoft's convention for C# there, bad call on my side
 
@Jefffrey No, the answer is: NULL
@Rapptz What is the relevance of decltype?
@LightnessRacesinOrbit: leaving aside the allegation of "derogatory" and "add nothing", I think it's possible for you and your upvoters to make some constructive progress by considering deref(p) where deref is return T&. The type of the expression after adjustment is just T (§5/5), and it's an lvalue expression. So, it's effectively the same as *, an lvalue expression of type T. And it tells you what's going on here. More precisely, it can tell you what's going on. — Cheers and hth. - Alf 2 mins ago
Ugh "allegation" sigh
 
is m_stuff for private and stuff for public fine?
 
giving up on that question now
 
11:29 PM
also _stuff
 
far too much drama
I still wanna find that old post of mine, though
 
@AlexM. Dammit too late to edit my markdown mishap there. You got the point
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit all egations are born equal in right
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Because you state dereferencing results in an "lvalue of B". The type of an "lvalue of B" is B& but you say "it isn't a reference type" when it clearly is.
 
user3010322
@AlexM. Use whatever you want, but most of your public member variables shoudl just be like_this
 
user3010322
11:30 PM
At least, if you want to go C++ standard library style
 
user3010322
Being consistent is a good thing.
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery but some are more equal than others
 
@Rapptz The result of decltype is. Otherwise, auto would catch it.
(I.e. auto would resolve to be a reference type and we wouldn't need decltype to begin with.)
 
@AlexM. i don't really mind. I often _x for privates. But more often I just x.
 
@Rapptz What? "value of B" means an expression of type B and value category lvalue. What happens with those two properties when you apply decltype is neither here nor there. It is plainly said, right there, that the type is B.
 
11:31 PM
@sehe In C#?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Even the quoted decltype text says that :P
 
@Griwes You're probably right.
 
> — otherwise, if e is an lvalue, decltype(e) is T&, where T is the type of e;
 
I think _privateMember is fine but FxCop complains that it should be this.privateMember. Which makes sense.
 
@Griwes lol yes true
@Rapptz Grrr
So you believe him!
meanie
 
11:32 PM
If he makes that an answer I'd probably upvote it too.
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery of course not
 
@sehe Oh then don't mind me~ Also you should be in bed
 
yeah there's only public stuff in here so I guess this change fixes stuff
	class __declspec(dllexport) Vec2f
	{
	public:
		Vec2f(float x, float y) : x(x), y(y) {};
		Vec2f(const Vec2f& other);
		virtual ~Vec2f();
		Vec2f& operator=(const Vec2f& other);

		float x;
		float y;
	};
 
looks for wording on auto
 
user3010322
@AlexM. Do. Not. Export. On. Classes.
 
user3010322
11:34 PM
It will lead to hell in a handbasket later on.
 
@AlexM. most likely, you don't want to make a class that simple virtual. struct Vec2f final { float x,y; }; done
 
but what do I do if I have to use the class in another project?
 
@AlexM. Why would you do that?!
 
too lazy for this :v
 
@Rapptz shrug I wouldn't - nobody mentioned decltype. It's a red herring.
 
11:34 PM
I was being facetious.
 
I got it ;p
where the fuck is this goddamned question
 
@AlexM. include the header, in this case.
 
@Griwes I wanted to use initializer lists and do the copy ctor and assignment operator :(
 
user3010322
@AlexM. Export the individual functions, but all the functions you've written are entirely uncessary.
 
we should have an std::vector!
oh wait
 
11:35 PM
@AlexM. Why would you do that?!
 
user3010322
@Rapptz :v
 
@AlexM. that makes it non-pod and non-trivial (read: slow)
 
@Griwes because this is really my first attempt at writing C++ and I was wondering how those worked
 
@AlexM. as an exercise: yes. In reality for this kind of type, no!
 
@sehe did you lock your wife somewhere
 
11:36 PM
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery she went back upstairs :|
 
@AlexM. You just write struct { float x, y; }; and it magically works!
 
@AlexM. that's a good reason.
 
@ThePhD so even if I have a class I want to use, I export individual functions instead but can still make instances of that type
right?
 
@Griwes except you have indeterminate values on default construction. You might do struct { float x = 0, y = 0; }; but it's not POD anymore (I think. Still trivial nad stdlayout, but not POD AFAICT)
 
user3010322
@AlexM. Yes.
 
user3010322
11:38 PM
All the member data is contained in the headers.
 
@sehe C++ sucks. :D
 
user3010322
Only thing that needs exporting are the member functions
 
@Griwes I see you don't know him.
 
On the contrary.
 
Only thing that needs exporting is a factory function of a library, that creates objects following a given interface!
 
user3010322
11:39 PM
@sehe struct my_v { float x; float y; }; and then my_v a{}; should zero-initialize the floats, I think.
 
@Griwes Expellearmus Java!
 
@Griwes yeah, I'd rather first try what ThePhD said to see how it works before I get to that lol
 
@ThePhD indeed. I think my wording was sloppy
 
TIL @sehe is a Potterite
 
user3010322
@sehe Have your PoD and eat it too.~
 
@ThePhD I do
 
@sehe What I really wanted to say is we need N2015 :P
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you're the defect
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit We don't need no frickin' defects! Keep them out!
 
user3010322
@AlexM. Take the declspec( blah ) off the class. Put it on the functions you want to export. Also note that in order to use a class from a DLL, you do NOT need to make it virtual. So dump the virtual destructor.
 
11:41 PM
@Griwes Is "Plugins" a euphemism for Modules now?
 
user3010322
MARK YOUR CONSTRUCTORS AND DESTRUCTORS TOO.
 
got it
 
@sehe Read the paper; it builds upon modules to create plugins.
 
user3010322
@AlexM. Wait, I lied.
 
user3010322
@AlexM. You totally do.
 
11:42 PM
from what I'm reading the auto-generated copy ctor and stuff basically do a replacement of member vars
so my copy ctor is redundant in this case
is this true?
 
@Griwes Sounds very... java-ish. But yeah, could be useful, I guess. I'd be happy with just Modules
 
I pretty much like interface, but I have no clue if anyone is working on it in any way (where "any way" includes waiting for modules to be accepted :P).
 
user3010322
@AlexM. Precisely.
 
@AlexM. Rule Of zero
 
user3010322
11:42 PM
Basic c-style brace-init (aggregate initialization!!) can cover your use case entirely.
 
@sehe No, you wouldn't, because modules don't let your users load run-time plugins.
 
@ThePhD "Aggregate Initialization"
@Griwes Why would I care :0
 
You have to load the plugin, grab a pointer to the factory function (which are generally extern "C"'d) and call it.
@sehe Because people like plugins?
 
What does that have to do with me?
 
@Griwes so... a dll then?
o.o
 
11:44 PM
Maybe you just don't write applications that don't have strict requirements known right now, IDK.
 
Just switch to C# and use MEF. Done.
 
user3010322
ezpz
 
(Disclaimer: I have no idea what this discussion is about)
 
user3010322
Lol.
 
@EtiennedeMartel since when is that required :P
 
11:44 PM
But since there is a possibility you may want to, I find the interface in the paper not bad.
@EtiennedeMartel, N2015.
 
Mouvement Estrien pour le Français
 
@Borgleader Yes!
Only "dlls" are Windows specific :P
 
dont they exist on linux in the form of .so or wtv? (or are those ".libs" ? i can never remember)
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery L'Estrie est une région traditionnellement anglophone.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Personne n'est parfait
 
11:46 PM
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery C'est là que les loyalistes anglais se sont installés quand ils ont quitté les États-Unis après l'indépendance.
 
@Griwes trollololol. Maybe I'm just not so insane to write those parts in C++ (or maybe I am, but I prefer an application protocol over (named) pipes or sockets. For Great Isolation)
In other words, Are You Nuts?
 
@Borgleader Yes. The interface dynamic libraries is not portable, and having a portable one would be nice, which is the whole point.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Saloperie de loyalistes !
 
@sehe, Are You Drunk? :D
 
Oh I see, so it's an effort to make a portable dll "format" so to speak.
 
11:47 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit: re "Yes, and an lvalue expression of type T is not of a reference type. So what's the problem?", that question does not make sense technically, sorry. It's just more misleading nonsense. — Cheers and hth. - Alf 3 mins ago
 
I can see the usefulness in that
 
@Borgleader No; a portable, standardized boilerplate for using them.
 
I have been out-trolled; I literally have nothing to say to that.
 
@Griwes In fact, I don't think I often am. So, why would you write your plugin architecture in C++?
 
11:48 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit stop overusing literally
 
@sehe Maybe because I want my C++ application work with C++ plugins that operate on C++ object my C++ application uses internally?
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery I'm not!
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit You literally are!
 
@Borgleader heh
 
11:50 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Alf does that when he realizes he's wrong. Instead of admitting it, he switches to all-out troll mode.
 
@Griwes: you should file a defect report for each use of "reference to" in the standard where it's not about a reference type. did you even try to check your facts. sorry, your comment is not technically meaningful. it's purely emotional. — Cheers and hth. - Alf 53 secs ago
 
I was just about to post that too. Got the URL in my clipboard an' everything.
 
lol
 
11:50 PM
@Griwes Good luck! I use C++ when I have to. (And like I said, if I need this, I'll make plenty sure to isolate my stuff. Security before convenience. Robustness before features. Sanity before dynamism)
 
I guess it's what you meant :D
 
@AlexM. Good!
 
"The term "lvalue" refers to an expression only. It doesn't refer to types. The term "reference type" refers to type, it doesn't refer to expressions." -- Exactly. *p is an expression and you are using the term reference (type is implied). — Jefffrey 1 min ago
 
@Jeffrey: sorry, your comment doesn't make sense. — Cheers and hth. - Alf 45 secs ago
 
amirite or amirong
 
11:51 PM
He's really on his period today.
2
 
@sehe Oh yeah, because all people using plugin architectures are just nuts. Gz with that thinking. :P
 
Let's try not to get the comments nuked, though; I'd love to re-read them one day.
 
:D
 
@Griwes Wut?! ITT C++ has no downsides
 
fuck it. screenshot
 
11:52 PM
welp, don't care much
 
ITT plug-ins are nuts
 
@ThePhD yup, it works w/o exporting the class :D
 
@Griwes Who said this?
 
ITT dynamic libraries are nuts
 
@Griwes Who said that?
 
11:52 PM
ITT @sehe doesn't remember what he said
 
Good night fellas.
 
@Borgleader silly image still loading, what is this
 
Stop being an emo school girl :)
 
I clearly am not :P
 
@Griwes I do. You never heard it through the fog of righteousness :/
 
11:53 PM
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery your internet is terrible =/
 
No, today's internet is terrible.
 
12 mins ago, by sehe
@Griwes Sounds very... java-ish. But yeah, could be useful, I guess. I'd be happy with just Modules
@Griwes ^ keyword I. I'd be I never wavered a second from clearly marking my personal opinion/preference.
 
@Borgleader It's just that image. But yeah today internet was weird
 
@WilliamAndrewMontgomery same quote different wbesite can you load this?
 
11:55 PM
@sehe And all that followed was just me trying to make my point that they are really pretty much orthogonal, just like static and dynamic polymorphism :P
 
they?
 
Plugins and modules.
 
Oh. Never disputed that.
 
@Borgleader that worked
 
@Griwes: try to start with your contention that "reference to" has a meaning, defined by the standard, that is incompatible with its use in the standard. harboring such a self-contradicting view is probably the reason why you don't understand my comments. — Cheers and hth. - Alf 3 mins ago
 
11:57 PM
Yeah, that, or it could be because you're off your fucking meds
He should be called "Cheers and wish that helped. - Alf"
 
Watch closely as I manage my hand towards he "sleep" button.
Here's hoping I get there....
 
You have a button for that?
 

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