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Xeo
/golfclap
 
2 digits, bitch.
 
Xeo
Xeo, In your code
55.2k 13 104 195
mhmmm
 
Xeo
You have that too
 
11:00 AM
Lightness Races in Orbit, Nottingham, United Kingdom
77.1k 11 99 198
self-oneboxing all the rage
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes kids, please!
 
but you have a badge on it :P
 
argh dat tags
 
@KonradRudolph let us compare our e-willies
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol php
 
Xeo
11:01 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I'd be so ashamed of the PHP, JS, JQuery, MySQL
 
funny thing we all have as first tag
 
@Xeo Why? I'm proud that I troll those communities.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Mine has more digits ^^
 
Xeo
Who'd have thought
 
@BartekBanachewicz imagine that
 
11:02 AM
yay, one of my clang codegenning issues went away with new build.
 
@BartekBanachewicz of course, yours is just a bronze...
 
You all suck at badge whoring.
 
I will treasure my bronze badge forever
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit GRBGHRGHW. I also don't have 10k yet :/
 
user1357851
@R.MartinhoFernandes you got one thing right: whoring
 
11:03 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes > Language Integrated Query (LINQ) is a Microsoft .NET Framework component that adds native data querying capabilities to .NET languages
 
Xeo
Hm, I should continue my conquest for gold ...
 
loser
@Xeo quest*
 
What?
LINQ is cool.
2
If you want to laugh, I have this piece of shit stackoverflow.com/badges/269/regex?userid=46642
 
> is a Microsoft .NET Framework component
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's "can I has regex" tag?
 
11:04 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes if we suck at whoring, does it mean we are doing it right?
 
5
Q: why vector's move ctor does not deduce a noexcept()?

DukalesWhy move constructor for std::vector with custom allocator does not deduce a noexcept() from allocator's behaviours? This leads to the class that encapsulates such vector cannot form the (other) vector that can be normally moved in some <algorithm>s. Even if the underlying type meets the nesses...

 
I got the badge recently because I posted that post bashing on <regex> being crap. That was more of a "no, you cannot has regex" answers.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes urlplz
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You have as many gold badges as me, and about half the rep. Neat :)
 
11:06 AM
14
A: Range of UTF-8 Characters in C++11 Regex

R. Martinho FernandesEncoded in UTF-8, the string "[一-龠々〆ヵヶ]" is equal to this one: "[\xe4\xb8\x80-\xe9\xbe\xa0\xe3\x80\x85\xe3\x80\x86\xe3\x83\xb5\xe3\x83\xb6]". And this is not the droid character class you are looking for. The character class you are looking for is the one that includes: any character in the r...

 
champion badge-whore
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah.
 
I disliked regex until I discovered \Q\E
which makes me happy again
 
11:06 AM
The worst thing about testing is that you keep finding bugs. :/
5
 
@Neil That's Perl's eval thing, right?
 
@jalf i'm not taking the bait
 
user1357851
@jalf but that's what testing is for right?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yup
\QSearch for this literal expression {}{}()^^^\E
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I really like that question because it's one that flies right in the face of the "UTF-8 everywhere" drones.
 
11:09 AM
@Telkitty your joke detector needs replacing
 
user1357851
Sometimes I post random messages so that my avatar could come to the front of the queue on the user list
 
@jalf that means that you have no static checks, nor unit-tests
 
wtf are you smoking
 
@Abyx Huh?
 
those things are never going to catch the same bugs as testers
 
user142019
11:12 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes are script properties just regular properties?
 
user142019
Or are they separate?
 
You could make an argument that it means we don't have enough static checks or unit tests. But I don't see how it could possibly prove the total non-existence of both of these
 
Xeo
@jalf Ikr. :(
 
it would be a boring argument
 
Xeo
Also going through testing right now
 
11:14 AM
Let's listen to Portal: Music to Test By
 
And while I would love for us to have more unit tests and have more things checked statically, it's not really feasible for every part of a complex application :)
 
that's arguably best music for testing :)
 
heh
I... actually think I have it in my playlist already
 
Yup yup, I do
 
11:15 AM
I was listening to Jelonek, but now I want to hear GladOS sing again
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Can't say I ever became too familiar with the subject.
 
user1357851
I used to work for at least two places where the testers had no idea what my code supposed to achieve (implement some maths models), I wrote test cases for them. So they tested my code the same way I did on their machines ...
 
tests should be written against specification not against code
if the project doesn't have specification, the author writing them is the most reasonable thing to do
 
Xeo
4
Q: C++ statically allocated double ended queue implementation

YousfSTL has deque implementation, Boost deque implementation; But both of them uses the STL way of sequence containers (dynamic allocation with allocators). I am searching for a reliable, fast and statically allocated deque implementation. Which looks something like this: template<typename T, unsig...

lol, linking to Fusion deque
 
user1357851
Well, I did not write those models, I implemented them - implemented the way that I understood was right ~shrug~
 
user1357851
11:22 AM
Catch 22 with black box testing - if there were bugs discovered, then there would be more work for the developer, if no bug were discovered, it feels like that the testing was wasted.
 
@Xeo what.
 
@Zoidberg Separate how?
 
user142019
Are they properties like all other properties or are they something completely unrelated?
 
Hm, former.
 
user142019
Ah. Thanks.
 
11:26 AM
@BartekBanachewicz : Thanks for g++ -v man, I did not know that Haskell has its own MinGW
 
@GamesBrainiac np.
 
Quentin, United Kingdom
222k 19 191 334
Maybe I'm just racist, but 222k on javascript and PHP doesn't hold the same weight as 222k with C++ et al. :D
2
 
@DomagojPandža : He's a web maestro! :P
 
obviously.
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's a hack with a fixed-size buffer. We're aware of it.
 
11:29 AM
C# is much easier too
 
@BartekBanachewicz You mean the part where he uses a bunch of global variables?
 
PHP is hard to get rep with because there's a lot of crappy questions and people don't vote.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Better than Java atleast! :P
 
@DeadMG ooopsie.
 
also, we're quite aware of that mechanism
 
11:30 AM
@GamesBrainiac why?
O. K.
Point being, people had similar idea to me.
 
user142019
Are you asking why C# is better than Java?
 
(using vector when you need a goddamn vector)
 
@BartekBanachewicz : It doesn't have lambdas silly.
 
@GamesBrainiac Java 8 will have lambdas. Will these two be equal then?
 
user142019
Lambdas, generics, delegates, type inference, LINQ.
 
11:31 AM
@Zoidberg I wasn't asking you, sugarcube.
 
@BartekBanachewicz If the implementation is something like templates in java, then no.
 
user1357851
Lamb d ass
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz In that case I was giving hints to @GamesBrainiac.
 
I like LINQ very much. Also, reflection is growing on me, too.
 
@Zoidberg that's cheating!
 
11:32 AM
The only thing good about Java, is that it gives you better error messages.
 
And has a lot of libraries
 
user142019
Oh another nice thing C# has: no checked exceptions, boxing is often transparent.
 
checked exceptions are good, Java is just bad at them
 
I want to learn Scala
 
@BartekBanachewicz That it does, and frankly, better documenation.
 
11:33 AM
@DeadMG are these compiler errors if you don't try/catch?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Or you define that you throw them.
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz if you don't catch or you don't add throws clause.
 
user142019
And it only does that for some of the exceptions, not all of them.
 
the problem with Java is that you have to manually define that you throw everything you don't catch.
whereas the compiler could infer it pretty trivially
 
11:34 AM
aha.
 
I don't understand what you would get from that, though.
 
so it can get very messy finding what every-fucking-thing can throw
 
user142019
It should be part of the type system. \o/
 
Scala looks like a miracle. In theory it's functional, JVM-cross platform, should compile lighting fast and is able to reuse all the libraries
 
@BartekBanachewicz lacks documenting fucking comments
 
11:35 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes The result would be exceedingly similar to the functional version, as far as I understand it, although with a more imperative lick of paint.
 
user142019
Haskell is also cross-platform. Your point?
 
user142019
Oh, also: Clojure.
 
Hmm, yeah, I don't think so.
 
@Zoidberg libraries.
Also Scala isn't purely functional like Haskell or Lisp
 
user142019
Lisp is pure functional?
 
Xeo
11:36 AM
@DeadMG What functional version of what?
 
it supports both OOP and functional programming
@Zoidberg um, yes
 
@Xeo Error.
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz TIL.
 
user142019
In Clojure you can perform side-effects whenever you want. Are you talking about the original Lisp? Common Lisp?
 
well
> Paradigm(s) Multi-paradigm: functional, procedural, reflective, meta
so in theory it's also procedural
 
11:38 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Haskell is purely functional in the sense that functions are pure.
 
user142019
Purely function doesn't mean that it's only functional.
 
user142019
It means that functions are pure.
 
oh fuck i misread\
 
user142019
lol :P
 
hmm
 
11:39 AM
You wrote "pure functional"
my bad.
 
I think that I accidentally wrote my code generator to return a bunch of references to local variables.
 
@DeadMG Yeah, no. You still have to thread the errors along more or less explicitly. The main thing about the functional style is that you have the tools to do it correctly without being painful.
 
Xeo
Monads <3
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You don't have to thread them along explicitly. The compiler can infer the exception specification, and will propagate exceptions for you.
 
anyways, I don't really know a lot about dialects. I've heard about Clojure obviously, but my main focus was on CLisp
Anyway, from all these 3 (Haskell, Lisp, Scala), I think I would like to learn Scala first.
It's easier and more familiar, has more libraries and good IDEs
And I think I could use a JVM-enabled language in my arsenal
and please don't write Jython @Zoidberg
 
11:41 AM
@DeadMG No. You need to use the "error propagating functions".
 
I think you a word (or a hundred)
 
Xeo
Guys, please fight with example code!
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz JRuby?
 
user142019
>:3
 
You don't get the compiler to magically add whatever new exceptions you code can generate along the way.
 
11:42 AM
@Xeo Usually their arguments are "No." and "You're wrong." :D
 
If you throw an exception that isn't on the interface, you get a compiler error, not an extra inferred one.
 
Xeo
Hm... abusing lifting expressions to sneak Haskell into C++... [](foo a b)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Whats wrong with Jython?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Only for those few interfaces which explicitly give a specification.
 
user142019
@GamesBrainiac inb4 performance.
 
11:43 AM
@DeadMG In Haskell they all do.
 
most functions would be better suited to an inferred specification
 
@BartekBanachewicz I'd rather learn Kotlin
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes How is that different to Java's current checked exception system?
 
user142019
> JVM Byte Codes
 
11:44 AM
Java gives you two tools to handle it: try-catch and putting stuff on throws.
 
@Zoidberg gimmeh teh codes!
 
Those are highly insufficient, absolutely local, and in the end highly inappropriate.
Haskell gives you a bunch of different tools.
Starting with >>=, fmap and then all the way through everything in Control.Applicative, Control.Monad, amd Data.Functor.
 
Haskell is such a tool.
 
If you can think of an error handling/propagation pattern, there's probably a function for it in the library.
 
Xeo
Wait, isn't >>= coming through Monad, fmap through Functor and <*> through Applicative? :P
 
11:47 AM
@Xeo Yeah, but there's a extra stuff in the modules.
 
right, but in Haskell, you don't write out every possible thing every single function might "throw"
 
No, but you don't throw the checking out the window by having the compiler be "helpful".
 
user142019
It's part of the type system.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Btw, any idea why Functor isn't in Control too?
 
11:50 AM
@Xeo I honestly never understood that module hierarchy.
 
Xeo
heh
 
user142019
Probably has to do with chronology.
 
It kinda feels right now, but that's probably bias from using it.
 
Xeo
Well, I read that Monads came in before Functors and Applicatives.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't see the problem. If you have inferred specifications and explicit specifications, you can have the compiler check your conformance to a given interface if you need it, and else, the compiler can handle it and doesn't get in the way.
 
user142019
11:51 AM
The reason we have map is because it existed before Functor. (And for error messages understandable by noobs.)
 
@GamesBrainiac everything that's wrong in Python
 
@Zoidberg IIRC it's a GHC thing. Haskell98 did not have hierarchical modules.
 
user142019
Ah.
 
Xeo
Also, C++ makes it weird to read about Functors as "something that can be mapped over", while in C++ it's "something that is mapped over something else". I have taken to abstain from using "functor" in C++ since I learned about them in Haskell. :s
 
user142019
I was confused at first about functors and type classes because of C++ callables and OOP classes.
 
11:53 AM
@Zoidberg that's surprisingly viable suggestion
@Xeo functor is a function that can have state.
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz In C++, not in Haskell.
 
Xeo
I just wanted to call you out on your formulation
 
@DeadMG Then I don't understand your idea. In Haskell all functions propagate/hide/handle/whatever all errors explicitly.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes All I'm saying is that exceptions should propagate implicitly just like now, but the compiler should keep track of them implicitly, so that if you have a fixed exception requirement, the compiler can prove whether or not you meet it.
 
If I write foo = fmap f I am saying "foo is like f but passes along errors". If I write foo = f I am saying "foo is like f (and no errors involved implicitly)".
 
11:56 AM
@Xeo It's not really used for control flow
 
in other news this week
 
user142019
> This week.
 
using test := cpp("WideLibrary/test.h");
Main() {
    test.f();
    x := test.std.vector!(int8)();
    test.std.sort(x.begin(), x.end(), helper);
}
helper(int8 lhs, int8 rhs) {
    return true;
}
helper(test.std.string lhs, test.std.string rhs) {
    return lhs;
}
now compiles and executes
 
user142019
It must be very new, since this week is very new.
 
@Xeo Press a proposal to deprecate that silly C++ meaning :v:
 
Xeo
11:58 AM
lol, proposal
 
@CatPlusPlus The Committee will consider it right next to the CADRe proposal.
 
Xeo
I don't think the standard uses it anywhere
 
A motion I don't know
 
Damn you puppy.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ninjaed.
 
Xeo
11:59 AM
Or does it?
 
What's CADRe
 
Xeo
Nope, grepping the standard yields 0 results for "functor"
 

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