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user1182183
5:00 PM
@Ell because I read exactly the amount of bytes the size of the struct (so whenever I add info to it I will have it available) to the variable, then I can play with my car
 
user1182183
('hacks')
 
> This user has been automatically suspended for posting inappropriate content and cannot chat for 27 minutes.
Ha, that'll teach him.
 
user1182183
@EtiennedeMartel ;>
 
guys
I have a question for you Certified Professional C++ Developpers™
 
@Cicada Arhem.
 
5:02 PM
Everyone fled
 
user1182183
Cicada got no more hot chick profile pic?
 
who did?
 
I'm a C developer. :)
 
I can.. try to help.
 
@GamErix no she was fugly
 
user1182183
5:03 PM
Yay operator overloading does not change array size : D
 
@GamErix ?_?
 
user1182183
@Cicada you are cicada? O_o
 
user1182183
@Rapptz sorry I mean struct :P
 
what
 
user1182183
 
5:04 PM
@GamErix I don't like where this is going.
@Mysticial What a fraud.
 
@Mysticial Well you can (probably) help but not for the same reasons
 
@GamErix what
 
Anyway, I'm gonna play some DKC2.
 
@EtiennedeMartel downhill. No women on the internet etc etc...
 
why are you returning int for an assignment operator
 
user1182183
5:04 PM
@Rapptz this was just a test xd
 
user1182183
if it changes the struxt size
 
why would it?
 
user1182183
@Rapptz dunno, I don't know everything about C++ or C so when In doubt I have to confirm something what is important for me :P
 
@ScottW needs more caps!
 
19
A: How does the c++ sizeof operator calculate size?

Seth CarnegieFirst, realise that functions that are not virtual have no effect on the size of a class. The size of an instance of any class is at least 1 byte, even if the class is empty, so that different objects will have different addresses. Adding a char ensures that different objects will have differen...

Read this.
 
user1182183
5:06 PM
@Rapptz hm mkay thanks
 
Oh, moderator elections again. I shall candidate with "THIS SITE REQUIRES MORE TITTIES".
 
user1182183
ye about padding I knew
 
user1182183
my struct is good, uses up all the space it gets
 
@Cicada well that goes with out saying
 
user1182183
(only 4 byte data types)
 
5:09 PM
@Cicada and I think you mean nominate
 
whatever i suck at engrish
 
user1182183
@Cicada You drunk eh? At least you're not the girl we know
 
TIL code.org exists
 
@ScottW oh right right, that makes sense
@Cicada Franglish
 
Well, since no Certified Professional C++ Developpers™ are around, I'll come back later.
 
5:12 PM
y u use default gravatar?!
 
Why can't you just ask?
 
@Rapptz Because the room description says nothing to that effect
 
but she's a regular and regulars can ask questions here all they want really
the no questions thing is for people who just drop by without talking and just constantly ask for questions being annoying.
 
@Cicada if you draw me a certificate in MSPaint, I'll be certified! What do you need? :D
 
@Borgleader Why are there so many quotes?!
 
5:14 PM
@Rapptz Everyone can ask questions here. But if your question is annoying, people might yell at you and tell you to go somewhere else
 
@jalf Correct, but usually we point to Stack Overflow if all you do is come here to ask a question just because "this was the more active room" and 9 out of 10 times it has nothing to do with C++.
 
Ell
Oh my jesus christ
has anyone seen that chinese fur thing?
 
@Rapptz But that's why I hang out in here!
 
@Rapptz I don't know but the site encourages people to learn programming and I think that's a good idea.
 
@Rapptz yup, definitely
 
5:15 PM
I guess all the quoted people agree
 
@Borgleader I'm (unfortunately?) one of those people who thinks it's not a good idea.
 
Xeo
@jalf "might"
 
@Rapptz why is that?
 
Why?
 
Ell
It shows video of a live skinned raccoon
 
5:17 PM
I was originally going to say I'm one of those people who thinks that not everyone can be a programmer.
so yeah that's why.
though teaching from a young age could definitely help
 
@Rapptz there is a huge difference between "everyone should know a bit about code", and "everyone should be a programmer"
 
@Rapptz Statistics back you up, and also put "not everyone" at "30-60% of the intake of the average Computer Science course".
 
In the same way that everyone should be able to read and write, but not everyone needs to write a novel
 
^ This
 
@jalf Well, I guess. I remember my father telling me back in the 70s that they used to have basic computer courses because they believed "it was the next big thing" so they taught FORTRAN and eventually BASIC
 
5:19 PM
IMO it's about two things. Literacy and exposure. We live in a world where 95% of the population is illiterate with respect to the tool they depend the most on. Yes, people have finally learned to write, whoop de woop, that only took us 600 years to get sorted out. But people need to have a basic understanding of what the software they're using does
 
I have to write C++ code in a "not-so-object-oriented-way" and I don't know how to keep it clean.
 
the second aspect is that a lot of people might become brilliant programmers, if they knew it was an option. IF they didn't run away because it sounded geeky and because they'd never been exposed to programming
 
Xeo
Alright, home time~
 
lol exposed to programming
RUN
IT'S THE PROGRAMMING
DONT GET EXPOSED
 
Ell
I think a lot more people should become computer savvy
 
5:20 PM
@Cicada Is that the question? o.o
A design issue?
 
More or less
 
Xeo
ITT Cicada wants to expose herself?
2
/run
 
Ell
like knowing you can't paste text into a directory and get a word document
 
/slap
 
IMO it's not about turning everyone into programmers. But I think it'd be good for everyone to have to take some basic "intro to coding" class. Doesn't matter which language, doesn't matter if they get much further than hello world and implementing a calculator
 
5:20 PM
@Borgleader The site encourages people to learn trolling.
 
Xeo
@Cicada MIEP MIEP
(I hope other languages also had that bird make the same sound.)
 
@MartinJames Trolling? On SO? Are you serious?
People here don't even have humour
 
@Cicada Well how are you doing it now?
 
@Xeo lol in french it's "cui cui"
 
Also TIL
> In 2006, 59% of developers for the .NET Framework used Visual Basic .NET as their only programming language.[1]
 
5:21 PM
@jalf Reading, Writing, Arithmetic, and Coding.
 
Basically I have tens thousands of objects
 
and with those words of wisdom, I'll leave you because I'm hungry and dinner won't make itself
 
And for performance reasons I want to stop accessing those objects (which are almost POD) in an "object" way
I want to split the fields in separate arrays
 
structure of arrays rather than array of structures
 
Xeo
@Cicada Well, atleast you did get it.
 
5:22 PM
Yeah. Right.
 
@Xeo youtube.com/watch?v=AETfLHbab6U&t=0m25s <-- It's mythbusters so SFW, and relevant.
 
Aka instead of having array of Object { int, float }, I want two arrays of { int } and { float }
And the code looks terrible
Because goodbye OO
@Xeo I didn't.
 
Xeo
Aw
 
@ShotgunNinja pretty much, yes. I'm sure we can make room for some greek vases since a lot of people seem to think that's important culture-wise, but IMO knowing how to whip together a very basic script should be as universal as knowing how to write a shopping list on a piece of paper.
 
Xeo
Anyways, bbl
 
5:23 PM
So ideally I hoped that some kind of "member resolution overloading" would save me
But it doesn't exist in C++
 
Ell
surely there is some template magic
 
bbl @Xeo
whatever bbl means
 
Ell
be back later? o.O
Idk
 
be back later >.>
 
possibly
 
5:24 PM
I have to go, I need to find a fire extinguisher.
 
Ell
oh dear
 
Enjoy your struggle for survival.
 
@jalf Well if it's an intro, they could do what they did back then with BASIC but replace it with either a more modern dialect (Visual Basic .NET) or a high level scripting language (Lua, Python).
 
My trollometer is on fire.
 
@Rapptz Python would be best.
 
5:26 PM
@Rapptz MIT offers an intro to programming class in Python.
 
So basically I'm fucked right?
 
@Rapptz yeah... I don't really care which specific language it is, as long as it's turing-complete
 
@Cicada Yep. You can make it return (and take) by value, but forget referring/pointing to an Object split up that way.
 
@Borgleader I thought we were talking middle school or something.
 
Well shit.
 
5:27 PM
@Cicada well, what are you trying to do, exactly? If you want to access "matching" elements together anyway, then where are you going to get the performance increase from? Then you'll just be indexing into two arrays isntead of one
 
@jalf The problem with that is that then it rapidly becomes obvious how many school tasks are utterly pointless in the face of programmable devices.
 
@Rapptz We are, I'm just saying someone qualified out there thought Python is a good language to learn programming.
 
Splitting them into separate arrays only makes sense if you actually want to access one member without the other, IMO
 
@jalf Memory access pattern is much more efficient
But the code looks terrific
 
@Borgleader I suppose that when they sobered up, it was too late to take it back.
 
5:28 PM
@DeadMG sure, and the advantage of that is that it rapidly becomes obvious how many school tasks are utterly pointless in the face of programmable devices
Which means that they might start improving matters
 
@jalf I kinda disagree, because it's hideously depressing.
 
Ell
@Cicada why is memory access more efficient anyway? isn't it just a different order?
 
@DeadMG this
 
@Borgleader So? A lot of people out there thought Java was a good language to learn programming too when they could have learned a better alternative .
 
is it bad ti use #include ../something ?
 
5:28 PM
and from what I've witnessed, no school ever has improved something because it sucks for the students.
 
@Cicada How so? Before I had to find an offset into one array, and then I could get my int and my float from there. Now I have to find an offset into two separate arrays, one where I can get the int, and one where I can get the float
 
@NeelBasu yes
death penalty
 
@Cicada for 3 months ?
 
that's less efficient, not more (unless you traverse the elements separately, first ints, then floats, or something like that)
 
@Rapptz I said someone qualified :P
 
5:29 PM
@Borgleader Who says MIT is "qualified"?
 
@jalf Sorry, forgot to say this is on GPU. Splitting objects like that improves performance drastically.
Anyway, no elegant solution. So I'll give up.
 
Under that guise, every other state university should be "qualified" as well.
 
@Cicada You can still code an object to read and write by value.
 
@Rapptz I figure a bunch of people with Phds ought to be qualified. Or rather I damn hope they are because if they aren't we live in a sad fucking world.
 
@Borgleader Not really.
 
5:30 PM
@Borgleader You're missing the point.
 
they are qualified to do theoretical research.
 
@Borgleader Guess what. We live in a sad world.
 
they are not qualified to make practical judgements about real things.
especially not in education.
 
Also this is one of the rare cases where I completely agree with DeadMG. So do listen to him. He's right.
 
a CS professor makes a shitty, shitty teacher.
 
5:31 PM
@ScottW no
 
films it
 
My school tries to set itself apart by enforcing the rule that all full-time professors must not only be doctors, but must also hold a part-time job in the industry which they are responsible for teaching.
 
YouTube now!
 
I'm a PhD student :(
 
@ShotgunNinja I can at least see a basis for that argument.
 
5:33 PM
@ShotgunNinja Competent profs? That's new - how's it working out?
 
@DeadMG It's a new attempt at a solution to a well-known existing problem.
 
@ShotgunNinja To be honest, I think the latter is a good pre-requisite but I'm not sure about the former.
A PhD is pretty useless IMHO outside of the hard sciences.
 
@MartinJames It's hit or miss... Some of the professors just get burnt-out after a while.
 
@ScottW If all professors must be DeadMG, all students must be dead.
 
I'm starving, going to go eat.
 
5:35 PM
Our former head of EECS (the blanket group for everything from Software Engineering to Computer Engineering to Biomedical to EET), Dr. Steven Barnicki, just finally got fired for being a hardcore alcoholic.
He was continually demoted, given probation periods, given a year off to recover, and just couldn't find the energy to push on.
 
o.O damn... was he an alcohol sponge before or after the whole "part time job" thing?
 
@Borgleader He was in charge of five or six different majors.
 
Hold on, before I comment, did his alcoholism impact the way he teaches?
 
@Cicada but again, only if you (or the compiler) actually exploit the more uniform structure (and effectively, treat it as two streams of data, rather than individual objects to be processed and manipulated individually. Think an iterator-oriented API instead of an traditional OO one. You could define some kind of proxy object referencing the two arrays at the right offsets, to make it look more OO, but I suspect that'd ruin the performance advantage
 
Also, we live in Milwaukee, WI, which has the nickname "Beer City".
 
5:37 PM
@ScottW ... or 'The Great Indentation War' room, as it's often known.
 
Or is "alcoholic" just another blanket statement for the way the US fires teachers? "Oh no, he's a teacher and drinking? Better fire him"
 
@Rapptz After a while, it did. By the time I had to take him, he was already long gone as a professor.
 
@ShotgunNinja Ooh! Checking schedules now...
 
He'd show up late, skim over a powerpoint, and let the class out early because he just couldn't find the energy to sit there and teach.
 
Ah ok.
 
5:38 PM
@MartinJames Look at Milwaukee School of Engineering.
 
OTOH, 'WI' is State in US. That means Bud, Coors, Michelob. Cancelling reservation..
 
@ShotgunNinja sounds like a student to me
 
Whats the difference between american beer and having sex in a canoe? None they're both fucking close to water. (ba-dum-tss)
 
@MartinJames Budweiser and Michelob are out of Anheiser-Busch, which is in St. Louis, Missouri. Coors is now under Miller-Coors, out of Milwaukee, but used to be in Colorado.
Miller is shit, as well.
 
5:41 PM
There are a lot of really good microbreweries in Wisconsin, though.
 
@ShotgunNinja Saved me the effort of posting.
 
New Glarus Brewing Co, for example.
 
@ShotgunNinja Oh - looking up!
 
Also, Leinenkugel's is in Milwaukee, as well. Out by the highway.
Sprecher's is one of our older breweries.
 
'Microbrewers of Raspberry Tart Framboise, Belgian Red Cherry Ale' - looking down :(
 
5:42 PM
meh
The following is a partial list of Wisconsin-based breweries. Large breweries (6,000,000+ barrels per annum) *Miller Brewing Company ([http://www.millercoors.com/AgeVerification.aspx website]) - Milwaukee Regional breweries (15,000 - 6,000,000 barrels per annum) *Minhas Craft Brewery ([http://www.MinhasBrewery.com/ website]) - Monroe *Capital Brewery ([http://www.capital-brewery.com/ website]) - Middleton *City Brewing Company ([http://www.citybrewery.com/ website]) - La Crosse *Jacob Leinenkugel Brewing Company ([http://www.leinie.com/ website]) - Chippewa Falls *Lakefront Brewery, Inc....
At my workplace, they have Miller High Life in cans in the vending machine.
It's just that big of a Milwaukee thing.
 
@ShotgunNinja 'Miller High Life in cans' - update your CV.
 
@MartinJames Oh, pssh. It's a good chaser.
 
Ell
meh I can't do finances xD
 
To be fair, I'm sure there are good beers in WI. I'm not sure I could find them amongst the other stuff, though :(
 
Ell
haha
 
5:47 PM
@MartinJames Come to Milwaukee, go to Lakefront Brewery, Water Street Brewery, or any of the other brewpubs.
 
@ShotgunNinja Thanks. Diarised that info :)
 
@jalf that twitter account should be CompSciFake
 
Ell
Wow thunderbird is actually pretty intuitive
 
It is
 
user784668
oh noes a mod
 
5:56 PM
@ShotgunNinja Next time I go to US, I'll try to sample them, but long way from MO to WI :(
@Fanael It's OK. It's a pet, aparrently.
 

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