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1:00 PM
Mmmm coffee
 
Good idea
 
@RolandSams Do you remember Gorilla and Nibbles? :)
 
Yeah! Gorilla :)
Nibbles, not so sure
 
@FredOverflow yep
afk
 
1:09 PM
hgu
 
Did I mention I hate pure C?
 
god I wish this place had decent acceptable coffee
 
@FredOverflow I've seen it, never played it
 
The guy (uni tutor) nearly made my friend fail because "apparently he was using C++ references, and they were forbidden because C". I had to explain to this twat that "&val" means to take address.
 
1:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz THAT'S BAAAAAD. Clearly shows he knows neither C nor C++.... Pathetic
 
You hate C? I have C/C++ interop - extern C, ifdef cplusplus etc. That's a lot of fun at link time, believe me :((
 
@BartekBanachewicz What is pure C?
 
@sehe you tell me. He said that my 4 functions of push_front/back, pop_front/back aren't enough because he wanted two lists, FIFO, and LIFO
@FredOverflow common subset of C and C++
 
@FredOverflow A mythical entity. A theoretical ideal. A logical fallacy. Other stuff..
 
@BartekBanachewicz wouldn't pure C allow things that are not common to both C and C++?
 
1:14 PM
 
@sehe he also said that we shouldn't profile our code to test if the vector or list is faster, and instead analyze it algorithmically. Then rolled out the indexing method for list requirement.
 
@BartekBanachewicz that I can understand. He wants you be able to think about how good the permanence is
 
@BartekBanachewicz Well, I agree somewhat: you have to think first. Then profile, profile, profile!
 
@thecoshman Yes.
 
@thecoshman whatever. C sucks terribly
 
1:15 PM
@DeadMG ego.inlfate()
 
I told him that I've seen numerous times when analysis were just fucked because OS or compiler, but I doubt it got to him.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Pretty much says that he has 1 implementation in mind that he understands, and anything else (no matter whether it meets the requirements) is obviously wrong ... ?
 
@sehe I think he understood, he was just forced by the voices in his mind to force "required" method on me
Strangely enough, he accepted functional map(root, print) instead of print(root) :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's not the point. Analysis is never "just fucked". However, in practice context can have overriding influence. Keep that in mind especially with (a) tiny volumes (b) huge volumes (c) infrequent operations
 
C is OK until you get to use any OO langs. If you subsequently go back to C, a massive vacuum of suckiness appears, as if from nowhere.
7
 
1:17 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Sooo. He had a lisp course once :0
 
I hate how much bullshit red-tape gets in the way of just working on this fuck stain of a code base
 
@thecoshman Advertising for Red Bull?
 
@MartinJames I am very aware of amount of suckiness in C, don't want/need to be reminded -.-
 
@sehe poor attempt at being funny, or not familiar with the term 'red-tape'?
 
@thecoshman At least, no decent coffee stains (that would be a waste)
@thecoshman ...
 
1:19 PM
@sehe not with the 'coffee' on offer here
 
@BartekBanachewicz The what.
Is cliffski your teacher?
 
@MartinJames I miss lambdas in C.
 
> Answered a question more than 60 days later with score of 5 or more
Where's my necro badge? :(
 
Which post?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes No Insta-badges.
 
1:21 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes uni. bullshit.
 
Oh wait, it's awarded already.
I didn't see a notification on the multicollider...
 
@FredOverflow I miss so much in C that the list would be tedious.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes in the e-post
@R.MartinhoFernandes interesting term
 
Damn badge notifications are almost invisible.
 
1:22 PM
oh, I wonder who get's the 8th million post
it's comming up fast :P
 
@sehe Ok, I'll try to be more specific. Considering that I have a cell phone connected to 3G that is constantly sending messages (via whatsapp) in and out to another friend. Can that friend, from that distance (without touching my phone), get my location somehow?
 
@Jeffrey no
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I see...
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why link to a script? It's the official name of that thing.
 
1:24 PM
@Xeo Could not fine any other mention of it by searching on meta :/
 
Not unless whatsapp leaks your location, or you have access to the provider's base-station data in real-time.
 
3
Q: Sites not ordered in StackExchangeâ„¢ MultiCollider SuperDropdownâ„¢

Borror0Usually, the sites on which you have 200 reputation are ordered from most reputation to least in the StackExchangeâ„¢ MultiCollider SuperDropdownâ„¢. However, on http://chat.stackexchange.com/, they are not. It's randomized, instead.

Let's just say meta search sucks too...
 
Xeo
57
A: The Many Memes of Meta

dmckeeMeme: Stack Exchangeâ„¢ MultiCollider SuperDropdownâ„¢ Originator: radp, made popular by rchern in a comment on this question First Seen: 27 Sept. 2010 Cultural Height: margin-top: 6px; Definition: Variants: Stack Exchangeâ„¢ GlobalTag MegaBlenderâ„¢ (1, 2) Stack Exchangeâ„¢ ChronoWarping ChatCombi...

 
@thecoshman, what would be the easiest way from that distance? I can think of something to get its IP (create a fake PHP page that sends me the IP of the people who visit it and induce him to go visit it) and then get all the information regarding that IP. Is that an option?
 
Xeo
This, on the other hand, is less awesome sounding.
 
1:26 PM
@Jeffrey what are you trying to do?
 
@Jeffrey What? For geolocation? No.
 
My head hurts... — Mike Weller 22 hours ago
lol
 
His brain overflowed. I refuse to read it all in case I meet a similar fate.
 
@thecoshman, I'm afraid somehow is trying to geolocate me (one of my friend) and I'd like to know if that's possible somehow.
 
Ah, the C64.
 
1:30 PM
@sehe Did you get my plinks from morning?
 
@Jeffrey unless there is something on your phone, or they have access to your providers data, there is nothing they can do to locate you.
Even the operators only have a loose idea of where exactly UE is. Well, I say loose, it's fairly precise depending on what type of cells you are in range of
 
@thecoshman, "access to your providers data"?
 
@Jeffrey who ever provides you your phone service
The network operator
 
Oh ok. @thecoshman, thanks then.
 
@Jeffrey Base station logs. Current station registration, timing-advances, that sort of stuff.
 
1:33 PM
They know the Db required for base stations to communicate with your user equipment, thus it is possible to triangulate your position.
@MartinJames what's your job out of curiosity
 
Can template definitions use incomplete types?
Hmm, no.
Makes no sense.
But they can use incomplete templates, right?
 
what's an incomplete template?
 
template <typename> struct foo;
template <typename T>
foo<T> f() { return { 0 }; }
 
@BartekBanachewicz extreme wankery
 
@thecoshman remember I'm already on the other side of the barricade
 
1:35 PM
Design, development etc. of fluid-monitoring systems, (that's stuff for garages, lube-bays, fuel trucks etc). I have worked before on base station stuff, though.
 
@thecoshman, they don't need the exact position. Just the region I'm in within a 150km radius.
 
I am going to use wankplates and wankskell.
 
@Jeffrey like we have said, with out data leaking from your phone, or insider knowledge, they cannot find out a thing
 
Ok
 
Just the region I'm in within a 150km radius - what? They are trying to nuke you?
 
1:36 PM
@MartinJames oh, I work on OSS :P bases-stations are shit
 
@Jeffrey neotrace
 
@MartinJames, ahaha, no they are trying to find out if I'm home or in another city...
 
@RolandSams explain yourself!
@Jeffrey don't forget, things change when you start using IP
 
neotrace is a "alright" program for tracing ip addresses to geological locations
 
@sehe Oh you got it. Alioth. Just wanted to tell you the guy responded, if you haven't noticed already.
 
1:38 PM
@RolandSams aye, but that relies on IP, not stand cellular data
 
@thecoshman by the way, our plinks discussion doesn't really matter, as she isn't showing up anyway :P
 
@thecoshman, I don't follow.
 
@thecoshman The base station were not too bad, (unless need to climb the mast). They usually had heaters, a small table and plenty of power for plugging in a kettle etc.
 
and geolocation based on IP is very poor system
 
@thecoshman hmm
 
1:39 PM
@MartinJames oooh, you mean physically work on them :P
@BartekBanachewicz I noticed
@Jeffrey what we have said relates to data you can (well, can't get) via texts and phone calls
 
@thecoshman seems to be angry at the lounge :P
 
If you start use mobile data, you get a public IP. But even that is hard to geolocate
@BartekBanachewicz doubt it, Cicada just seem streesed out
 
@thecoshman You can triangulate a cell phone... right?
 
@thecoshman Well, if the base station stuft and remote access down, I had to drive to them with extender boards, laptop, etc. to debug/troubleshoot.
 
@RolandSams if you have access to the data operators have
 
1:41 PM
@thecoshman yea, right. I am not gonna ask her for details anyway :P
 
@thecoshman, I've specifically said I'm connected to 3G and I need it to be. Therefore I have a public IP that they can possibly geolocate...
?
 
if you are geolocating based on IP, you are basically just looking up that IP in a DB to see where it is supposed to be. With normal landline IPS that sucks as often the ISP is register somewhere else, with mobiles its is definitely going to be somewhere else
@Jeffrey except 3G is not explicitly data with an IP
@Jeffrey that depends
the operator will have a range of IPs that they give you access to. IIRC mobiles get very short DHCP leases (it's not DHCP, but its' the same principle) thus your IP will change fairly often, not sure how often though
it also could be registered anywhere
might be registered with the base-station you are connected to, might be some central location. might be some other country
basically, think of the operator as a huge router performing NAT for your phone
a router with many public facing IPs that you could be using
 
Also, today is the last day of our SC1 tournament group stage
I wonder what the prizes for top 3 places are :P
 
@thecoshman, I'm sure that is a pretty clear explanation, but I don't understand half of it. :) Anyway I think I can consider myself pretty safe there. Thank you very much.
 
@Jeffrey give it a go, get the ip the worlds currently sees for your phone, and search for a geolocating service on google
see where it reckons your ip is from, and see how long you keep that ip
 
1:48 PM
@thecoshman, I'll try.
 
wtf is (this string s)?
 
@thecoshman ...and keep in mind that all of this is obsolescent, since 4G uses IPv6 instead, so they can assign a unique IP to each phone for as long as they want.
 
@JerryCoffin that's a nice newsflash for me
 
@BartekBanachewicz Extension method. Note the call site below.
 
robot
did you ever finish porting ogonek to MSVC?
 
1:50 PM
@JerryCoffin potentially, they may keep a similar approach to now, for some odd reason where they do not wish to by enough addresses
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not sure if great or fugly.
 
@DeadMG No, I said before I won't try it before the C++11 update.
 
..and, if they are trying to get you with a weapon with destructive radius of 150km, could you please move to Brussels?
 
but I think one ip per UE would be easier to manage
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh ok
 
1:51 PM
Basically, the same reason I am not even testing with GCC 4.8 or clang 3.3: I don't want to track a moving target and spend time using workarounds for bugs that will be fixed/missing features that won't be missing.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes update3 I bet, the one with constexpr and using.
 
@JerryCoffin also, he he he '4G' you so cute. It's LTE to me :P
 
@Abyx I didn't see anything about an update 3.
 
..or West Ham. Old Trafford is too close to me.
 
@thecoshman That too. The documents all call it LTE, but most (US) operators sell it as 4G, so that's what I normally call it so people don't look at me quite so funny...
 
1:53 PM
@DeadMG we know what features will be in update2, so all other features will be in update3. probably.
 
@JerryCoffin EU operators use 4G in marketing as well.
 
@Abyx There's no reason to believe that at all.
 
update 3 will probably contain some extra features, but there's no way to know what they will be or how many.
 
Alias templates would be really neat.
 
1:54 PM
yeah
 
Anyone into retro gaming?
 
I am only using constexpr for constant member data, IIRC, so that's workaroundable.
 
like out of this world or prince of persia?
 
But without alias templates lots of code gets ugly.
 
lemmings
 
1:55 PM
> Note that as of this writing only compilation with GCC 4.7.2 and clang 3.2 has been tested. MSVC will only be considered as a target after the big C++11 update to VS 2012.
 
@BartekBanachewicz it looks interesting, but I don't need REST.
 
I updated the readme, btw.
 
fair enough
 
Can you get lemmings on Android?
 
I have to get back to minicraft.
 
1:56 PM
well, I could simply compile my Wide prototype with Clang instead.
 
@MartinJames most likely
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Tell me. How are you able to keep constant motivation in moving ogonek forward?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I predict an up-coming problem for their marketing. Part of the point of LTE is to eliminate clear-cut generations, but they're not going to want to give up on using nice, simple generation numbers and somewhere along the line they're going to want to cleanly separate (for example) HSPA+ from LTE release NN (for some suitable value of NN, obviously).
 
I haven't actually tested with clang since some of the latest changes, but I am confident it should work. I don't use any variadic template craziness or anything, like with wheels.
I will test it when I tag 0.5.0.
 
Ok I am going to go. Take care everyone
 
1:57 PM
@RolandSams Will search later.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I find the domain interesting?
I know that probably makes me look crazy :/
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Make sure to test it on Windows with MinGW as well as Linux.
you're quite a bit more likely to run into fun with the libstdc++ headers and all that gunk.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I like graphics too. Is it just it?
 
@DeadMG Yeah, I test on MinGW regularly.
 
No mythical dances, shamanistic rituals etc?
Drawing markings on your PC case?
 
1:59 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I guess the fact that people keep showing interest in it also helps.
 
well, there are no comparable libraries.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ugh. I need more interest in minicraft :/
 
effectively, there's Ogonek or no decent Unicode support
unless I want to spend years dicking around with ICU, which I really don't.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes But how am I going to build interest if there's no progress? And there's no progress because I'm not motivated, because there's no interest.
 
@DeadMG I use ICU at work. Not the biggest trouble source. It may have an annoying API, but it is rock solid.
 
2:01 PM
yeah, but I would have to spend a fair amount of time wrapping that API.
and even that can't achieve everything- for example, no move semantics, no custom allocators.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Maybe I got the wrong idea, but I have seen several people showing interest when all you had to show were a bunch of screenshots with cubes.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Tell me you want to see more cubes.
 
@DeadMG Those are actually the points where I am the happiest with my design: you can get both for free, and I have to write zero code for it.
 
I need it.
 
yeah
 
2:05 PM
@BartekBanachewicz haha, no. I want to see other stuff. Put a player moving around. Implement chunk streaming. Something. Get cracking.
 
I show new codes I implemented with Wide every while.
function calls, multiple Wide functions/multiple Wide files, mutable variables, etc.
 
I've been reading TC++PL, good book!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes aye! I need fonts first. Time to fight them with a unicode sword and texture shield
 
I will try to read it several times, so I can truly nail it.
 
@JerryCoffin LTE is the technical term, 4G is the pleb term :P
you know LTE is the technical term, it's a TLA afterall
 
2:10 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Ugh, don't do text rendering by yourself unless you limit your scope a looooooooooooooooot. You will never finish it otherwise.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I will give freetype-gl another try. My bitmap solution was really simple, though. Anyway, don't worry, I'm not @ThePhD :)
 
@ScottW wimax is something else if I am not mistaken, it's not a cellular thing
It think it's supposed to sit along side...
or even replace cellular
 
uh. I have classes starting at 7:30 tomorrow, I won't be able to code in the night.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I wasn't actually giving the usual "don't reinvent the wheel" advice (though it still applies :P). I was just trying to explain that this one wheel is one that takes a lot of effort to reinvent.
 
Oooh - vampire coding.
 
2:13 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Somewhere in the chat history is my ranting about how much font rendering sucks. And how the available libraries suck as well because C.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes still, if we don't try to reinvent the wheel, how will know we are not missing out?
 
@thecoshman Seriously, if you want to reinvent that one without sticking to a very very narrow scope, you have a looooong time ahead of you.
 
Dear library developers; if you think that C API is enough for C++ developers, I'll give you a hint : It is not.
 
Wheels are easy - make a round thing and let it roll. Rendering fonts is a massive pile of gunge that I want someone else to do, every time.
4
 
@BartekBanachewicz Write some wrappers
 
2:16 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes :P
 
@Collin Why should I do it? It's the library dev part.
 
@Collin defeats the idea of a library really
 
@thecoshman It's endlessly complex. Even before rendering you have to do glyph selection which may not be trivial (it's a context-sensitive many-to-many mapping), have to position those glyphs correctly which is not trivial (no, they don't always go after the previous one, not even in unidirectional text), and probably more stuff.
 
i.e. font rendering is something that should be done only by subject fanatics fans
It's like ogonek squared :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I never said it was easy :P
 
2:19 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I guess it depends on the library, often I end up with some RAII-enabled pointer and a bunch of forwarding functions
 
Then for rendering, you have to implement bytecode interpreters for hinting programs (yes, fonts have programs inside them). And there's keming, and ...
 
@Collin C sucks. If you write the library in C, it might as well have no interface at all. It's half of a library
 
@BartekBanachewicz it is pretty universal, just about every language anywhere can link to a C library with minimal effort
 
@Collin aye, you might be able to link to it, but try actually using the fucker!
 
@Collin I don't want to repeat myself. You'd have to read archive from yesterday. Or just look at my twitter status again.
 
2:22 PM
Oh, I get the shortcomings, but I also understand why someone would stick to a C interface
 
Yea. He either is lazy or can't do C++
 
It's sysiphean. In fact, if the alternative is rendering fonts, give me that damn boulder again..
 
And there's all kinds of weird corner cases to get nice looking text, like artificially moving periods closer to letters like T or W.
Of course, you can skip all that stuff, but then you are probably not better off than what you set off to reinvent.
 
user142019
Chromium y u download PNG to ~/downloads.
 
2:24 PM
@MartinJames Exactly.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes is font rendering something you might move onto? once ogahaagjhalgk is 'done'?
 
@thecoshman I do find it an interesting subject, but no, I don't want to get into it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes and part of those programs are (or were until recently?) patented, so you had to either pay up for a license, or skip those bytecode instructions
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes crap damn it :P
 
I'm going to play SC1. Wish me luck.
 
2:26 PM
which, afaik, is at least part of the reason why Linux font rendering is so shitty
 
@jalf Yep.
Some of those virtual machines have up to 200 different bytecodes.
@thecoshman Also, see last paragraph on this page: flamingdangerzone.com/ogonek
 
@BartekBanachewicz I should install that again
 
user142019
@BartekBanachewicz Have luck.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, regarding my lack of attempt at a spelling oganeck
 
@thecoshman There's audio too!
 
2:29 PM
you have also failed to say what the Russian 'means'
 
@jalf I believe FreeType has implemented their own hinting algorithm or something like that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah
although apparently, there are good news on that front at least
 
@_@ there is more to fonts then meets the eyes
 
Yeah. It appears deceptively simple at a glance.
 
2:38 PM
@thecoshman How is "Long term evolution" a technical term?
 
@JerryCoffin it's a TLA :P
 
@thecoshman There are actually a couple of things I would like to play around with (mostly around font rendering on the GPU), but I really don't want to think too much about it in the near future. I already have ogonek as a serious project, and there's RL stuff too. Maybe after I get fluent in German.
 
my ears are cold
 
You need a furry 'Russian style' hat with ear-flaps.
..or strap Daisy to your head :)
 
2:43 PM
I have one - it's just brilliant for walking the dog or going down the club on -5 days.
 
Xeo
Gaah, Perforce is drivin me nuts. :|
 
FIREFOX Y U STOP WORKING WHEN DOWNLOADING UPDATES??
 
@MartinJames Irony, obviously.
 
@MartinJames That's a bug. The updates will fix it.
3
 
2:53 PM
It may have popped up a 'Do you want this update' form for me to accept/decline but, being Windows, this went behind all my other apps. Still no excuse to stop working on other stuff.
 
BUGS Y U EXIST?
 
@MartinJames how did it "stop working"? As in it froze?
 
CodeWarrior?
 
It went slow/stupid. Comments/blog posts duplicated and/or errored. I've three times had to go delete duplicate comments.
 
@MartinJames ah, sounds fun...
 
2:55 PM
Now I've installed the updates, back to normal.
 
woooo, off academic probation~
 

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