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5:00 AM
I'm going to go play Chrono Trigger.
 
@JerryCoffin so if all the functions require the same filestream object. I better off make it global?
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil Your question can't really be easily or concisely answered...
@MohamedAhmedNabil Possibly if passing it around as an argument is too cumbersome....
The basic rule is to avoid the use of globals where possible.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil Perhaps, if truly all of them do. Unless you're passing it around quite a lot, however, passing arguments is generally preferred.
 
@JerryCoffin Every single function needs it :/
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil That sounds a bit suspicious in itself. No certainty that it's a problem, but at first blush, it sounds like it could be. Is the stream in question for a log or something like that?
 
5:05 AM
A global filestream sounds like trouble.
 
@JerryCoffin What im doing is making a binary read/write program. The has the functions, (setfile), (resetfile), (readrec), (writerec)
@JerryCoffin Maybe a struct is better?
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil Maybe a class?
 
The file should be a parameter for those. Not global. Because that is what they operate on.
 
@Chimera didnt learn it, will check it
 
I don't want to call set_square_argument(d) before calling square() when I really want to compute square(d).
 
5:08 AM
@MohamedAhmedNabil I mean maybe you should create a C++ class and have those functions be member functions...
 
@Chimera I understand
 
Then the class constructor could take the stream as an argument.
stream or filename etc...
Then the iostream could simply be a member variable.
@LucDanton @JerryCoffin, would that be a reasonable alternative?
 
Man, now I feel like writing a C++11 Range library.
 
@Chimera Graet stuff, thanks.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil Usually, the read/write will be associated with the struct you're going to read or write. You'll typically name them operator>> and operator<< respectively. Not sure what setfile and/or resetfile do, so it's harder to comment on them.
 
5:12 AM
Wow, I got three upvotes for a question that has yet to get a comment or an answer.
 
@Chimera It depends. The implicit parameter is still a parameter, so it's highly preferable to a global. But it can easily lead to contrived silliness. Calling a setter before calling a member is sometimes no better than setting a global before calling a non-member.
 
@LucDanton Well the constructor could "take in" the iostream... so a setter wouldn't be needed? BinaryFile bf("path_to_file\test.bin");
 
Last night a there was a spamming incident while no room owners were around. As a result, Etienne and I were added to the owners list since we are in the North American timezones and could moderate when everyone else is offline. But this decision was not a consensus. So I shall remove myself from the owners list as well until a consensus is made.
 
BinaryFile bf("path_to_file/test.bin")
constructor opens iostream ( becomes member variable, throw an exception on failure...
bf.ReadRecord( ... )
bf.WriteRecord( ... )
 
5:25 AM
So many stickied posts.
 
@Rapptz Kinda important though...
It's happened before.
 
@Rapptz yeah, never seen so many
 
I only noticed I was a room owner several months after I had been made one.
 
It'd actually be nice if one of the regulars was a mod. We were all rooting for awoodland/flexo.
 
I didn't notice for quite some time that the names of owners are italicized next to their messages.
 
5:29 AM
Is it election time again?
 
@Mysticial that would be awesome
 
@LucDanton I hadn't noticed yet!
 
@StackedCrooked are you serious?
 
LOL
 
5:30 AM
I just noticed.
LOL
 
Btw, I haven't seen awoodland in a long time.
 
@StackedCrooked He turned into flexo. But yeah, he hasn't been in the room for a while.
 
MS must be pissed...
 
2012 marks the end of the ie world.
 
5:38 AM
@StackedCrooked And to some people that sentence holds even without the "ie".
 
That was my intention :)
 
Do you guys take steps for custom static analysis? I have a set of scripts that I'm supposed to run to catch obsolete patterns but I can't say I like the process very much.
 
@LucDanton Nope. I usually let old code sit until it actually needs to be changed. Then I go ahead an update it to new standards.
 
As an example it looks for things of the form typename foo<T>::type because the Foo<T> alternative is easier to maintain.
@Mysticial Ah yes, 'standards', this is what's it's about. Not correctness.
 
5:42 AM
I was implying formatting/coding standards.
And frameworks to some extent.
 
Well I live by the standard that typename as a disambiguator needs to die.
 
How could it die? Is there an alternative?
 
Aliases, but it's a manual approach.
 
@StackedCrooked That looks like something from particle physics...
@LucDanton Surely not everywhere?
 
@KerrekSB Well. 500 lines of type traits so far.
I have both TupleType<T> and tuples::TupleType<T> for fun and profit, too.
 
5:54 AM
@LucDanton But inside some other type trait, would you bother writing the alias first, for a single use?
Or you could make a template template alias alias, that accepts the name of any template and extracts the type?!
 
@ScottW They aint suppose to break, boy.
 
Mmmh, I don't see why I would need an alias for just one use.
Barring template template parameter shenanigans.
 
template <typename T, template <typename...> class Tmpl> using TmplType = typename Tmpl<T>::type;
(Or the other way round)
 
@KerrekSB template<typename T> using Invoke = typename T::type;
 
Usage: TmplType<std::conditional, false, int, float>
 
5:57 AM
Yeah, other way around. I call that one Bind. Well, it doesn't actually fetch a nested type though.
 
@LucDanton I see what you did there
 
@ScottW Your being a mere child doesn't stop him from being the same!
 
@ScottW Lol. I don't know how that comes across to you, an actual American. It sounds funny in my (Belgian) head.
 
@LucDanton Though I would have called it "evoke", because it's a type, not a function.
 
@StackedCrooked Hmmm...but in your head, does it sound French or Flemish?
 
5:59 AM
@KerrekSB I'm not fond of the name. I have an invoke utility that is unrelated. But calling it Type (to match e.g. ValueType) looks a bit silly imo.
 
@ScottW Have you played Starcraft. I'm mentally saying it in the voice of the fire-blazing guys.
@ScottW The Firebat. Wait, no, it might just be the marine voice.
 
I played the original Starcraft a lot a few years back. I didn't get Starcraft 2 because they took out LAN.
I play mostly FPS now. I can't micromanage for shit.
 
@LucDanton I think "evoke" sounds nice. Or you could go for the classic, Typename :-)
 
Hah, it wouldn't too bad if it weren't so long.
 
@ScottW I never knew how to use them. I like the marine + stim packs + medic combo.
@Mysticial I feel to old now for RTS.
@ScottW Yeah, they were good against those.
 
6:03 AM
The only time I do well in RTS is in many vs. many games.
If it's 4v4. Then I don't have to do so many things as once.
 
Sorry, misunderstood.
That's actually a good idea.
@FredOverflow That doesn't really "follow" and yet so funny :D
@ScottW You mean attacking with workers?
The Protoss had this mean rush with a single zealot.
Just make a gateway and build one zealot and rush.
 
@ScottW oh god, reminds of the countless times someone managed to sneak a nydus canal into my base...
 
I don't remember if the GW was built at home or near the enemy.
I think at home.
I never reached that level. I was more into Age of Empires II back then (1999 - 2002).
 
@StackedCrooked Yes! AOE2 was amazing.
 
6:13 AM
I was kind of an addict back then :P It was a full-time occupation while skipping uni.
 
@StackedCrooked There were only like 3 countries that I could play well - and highly dependent on the map.
And I also only did well in 4v4 games.
16v16 TF2 with instant respawn on a small map is amazing.
 
Most magazine covers are not NSFW if they are laying on your desk. But they are if when seen on your computer screen. (Google images for "magazine covers")
Dammit how to get a clean url to Google Image search?
Need to add &tbm=isch
 
sbi
Very disturbing!
Indeed, you got a point.
 
@ScottW What the hell?
@sbi I was mostly referring to the near nudity.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Yeah, using namespace std on a magazine cover? What did they think they're supporting?!
 
6:23 AM
Lol.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Oh. I dunno. While I sympathize with pure dumb sexuality offending people (and most of the almost-nude pictures posted here fall under that) — I guess I'll never learn how nudity in itself can be disturbing.
 
Yeah.
 
sbi
I can see, though, how it can be hard to defend to have pictures of nudes on your screen at work.
 
Although that collection of zoomed out magazines can be pretty eye-catching from a distance.
Probably enough to make a boss come take a closer look - even if it's all SFW.
 
They go for the closer look.
 
sbi
6:37 AM
Uh. That's a lot of pins sticking out at the starboard. Lest users start to hurt themselves, I'm gonna clean this out a bit...
I think they all can be replace by one message linking to the rest of them.
So the robot asked whether the other owners have any reservations about adding more owners, for which there was a good cause. I answered that I have nothing against these two, but I have reservations in principle, because this violates our rules, and raises questions regarding other regulars.
2
I think we do need a discussion about how we deal with the situation. I can certainly see the merits in having room owners across all active time zones, but I still believe in the old maxim that more than a dozen room owners are unhealthy.
Let me add that I find Etienne's attitude in this affair extremely laudable and I certainly think this alone would qualify him as a room owner. I propose that, even if we should stick to the old rule of not having more than a dozen room owners, he should replace one of the former ones (even if that'd be me).
 
sbi
6:54 AM
@ScottW Well, up until yesterday, I would have pointed at our rules regarding this, and be done. Now this is all open again. So, Shrug, make yourself heard and maybe you will be in about 12 hours.
@ScottW But who says ownership will keep being coupled to frequent appearance?
@ScottW Having had a time where I listened to Yes, I certainly recognized the reference.
 
Mawning
 
sbi
On a related note, we should try hard to not to fall into this trap.
10
 
@sbi The approach would have the reverse effect on me. Or so I'd like to think.
 
As a room owner I have no objections to @Etienne being added to the list, however we should indeed keep in mind that we don't have too many room owners.
 
sbi
@LucDanton Well, we are quite often scalding towards newbies and their dumb questions, but defend our pretty language rather viciously.
 
7:08 AM
Hmmm currently we have 11 room owners
so we haven't got to a dozen yet
 
sbi
@ScottW Nope. The attacks are rather mild. But even if they were as vicious, that wouldn't change anything.
 
there's a reason I generally try to to be patient with newbie questions, no matter how many duplicates exist, or how easily the answer could be found on google :)
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion I count twelve, and while I could have counted wrong, it's certainly an even number. Also, both @Etienne and @Mysticial have removed themselves again.
 
heh, cute, I wasn't on the frequent users list two minutes ago. Apparently all it took was posting a single message :)
 
sbi
@jalf Yeah, I have seen something like this before.
Oh, I just saw that @Mysticial also removed himself from the list of owners. I extend my recommendation to both of them, then.
 
7:13 AM
@sbi ok, well let's see what other room owners think about this.
 
sbi
Please somebody star that, so that not only Etienne gets credit for this on the starboard.
 
sbi
Thx.
 
Morning gents
 
morning
 
sbi
7:15 AM
@TonyTheLion Do we now have to decide about the result of counting a dozen items by consensus?
Oops. Who pinned my other message? Is that really worth it?
 
yes?
 
sbi
@jalf Ah, I should've suspected you. :)
 
:)
I'm just that predictable ;)
 
Moaning 'gethers
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm in favor of these two Loungers with very good standing for room owner. /cc @sbi
 
0
Q: Human powered document processing

DenivicI want to create a "Human powered document processing" website in a formed as a gaming mechanic that will prompt volunteers to weed out text missed by OCR (optical character reader) The challenge is that the OCR output often contains errors and omissions, which hampers searches. Manual correction...

"What programing languages is best needed to create a recapctch type website..." How do you begin to answer that?
 
sbi
7:21 AM
@sehe As I said, I am also in favor of these two. I might, however, also be in favor of others, should they be suggested. I am, however, not in favor of abandoning our rules, and I am also not in favor of having more than about a dozen room owners.
 
@sbi Morning
 
sbi
@ManofOneWay Morning.
 
@sbi I'm also not in favor of more than a dozen room owners, but is it truly catastrophic to have 13 or even 14 owners?
 
sbi
I am at work, BTW, should you be interested.
 
@sbi Nice. That's what I wanted to hear
 
7:23 AM
@sbi I'd be fine with as many room owners as are physically allowed/practically convenient, as long as they are wellknown trusted people. As in: let's have a democracy.
 
sbi
@Insilico "...more than about a dozen room owners." The problem with fuzzy statements is always that, once we have 14, then why not make another exception and have 15?
 
When will I be a room owner?
 
@ManofOneWay Ask your mom
6 hours ago, by Mysticial
Try the PHP room. :)
 
sbi
29 mins ago, by sbi
@ScottW Well, up until yesterday, I would have pointed at our rules regarding this, and be done. Now this is all open again. So, Shrug, make yourself heard and maybe you will be in about 12 hours.
 
^ @Mysticial epic counter troll. What's amazing is he seemed not to catch on readily...
 
7:24 AM
@sbi True, but I think if the circumstances are such that more owners are needed, I don't see why that shouldn't be taken into consideration.
 
Needed? Nah... Welcome: maybe :)
 
@sehe You'd think that a room called "Lounge<C++>" would not be the best place to get answers to Java questions.
 
@Insilico That too. But this counter troll: classic
 
@sehe The PHP room comment is brilliant. :-)
 
sbi
@Insilico That's fine with me, really. I happen to believe that more than a dozen room owners is too many, but that's just me. There are certainly arguments against that as well as in favor. Note however, that we arrived at our current rule because I objected about being the only one doing the "unappreciated" work of mopping up after owners no longer regulars. If you put other rules into place, you should keep in mind that removing owners always causes friction and heat.
 
7:31 AM
mornin'
 
Now for something completely different: For those that work in UI, do you find yourself having to reparent UI widgets after they are created?
 
I'm assuming daknøk has never been on the frequent list, however he's a room owner and not me. This is discriminating!
 
@sbi Good point.
@sbi However, in general I'd say that I don't anticipate trouble with most owners :) Personally my overriding feeling is that it depends on the actual individuals, not the number of them, really. So, best not to make persons X. Y. Z. owners (again) LOL
 
sbi
@sehe Just look how often I have removed some from the owner list.
 
Precisely
 
sbi
7:39 AM
@sehe Um. I fail to see how this agrees to your statement. I meant it to disagree.
 
@sbi I know. I see it as confirmation of the fact that it depends on the actual individuals.
So the fun was that 'Precisely' went both ways: it is both true.
Of course, friction cannot be avoided completely and it sucks to be an owner at the time. Well, nothing comes for free :)
 
sbi
@sehe Well, I see it as a statement in favor of less owners, because otherwise it is harder to get consensus over who should be owner and who shouldn't.
 
If you ever need a hand you could always give me gentle prodding
 
@sbi AFAIK a consensus means that more than half of the targeted group agrees.
 
@sbi There's truth in that. Allthough I'm usually optimistic about self-organized groups: I'd be willing to risk failure based on trusting the people. Perhaps I'm just too young...
 
sbi
7:42 AM
@JerryCoffin Well, it's arguable whether we need owners from timezones in the middle of the pacific.
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah? Do you think the ape has another definition?
By the way, technically, that type of 'consensus' can still be a pain, due to the other part of the group not being happy. Is da point, I guess
 
@sehe no, I'm just saying what my definition is, is there anything wrong with that?
@sehe it's hard to make everyone happy at all times.
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Actually, my definition of "consensus" is that everybody (more or less grudgingly) agrees to a decision. Majority is democracy, not consensus.
@sehe I am optimistic, too, I'd like to think. It's just that I have been burned.
 
@sbi ah, well, then we'll have to ask all current owners
 
the problem with having more than a dozen owners is that then we're forced to make decisions about it. Having exactly a dozen means that we can apply a very very simple rule to determine ownership: are you on the frequent users list? If not, we're allowed to kick you off the ownership list. If you are, we can grant you ownership
 
sbi
7:45 AM
@TonyTheLion I am very strongly in favor of that. In fact, I might oppose a decisions, solely because not all owners had their say on the matter.
 
I notice that Dom is a room owner, despite not being around for a far while now, whilst I have no problem with him being an owner, it seems silly to keep people who are not active
 
also, ownership doesn't mean anything, who cares?
 
@TonyTheLion I just asked, you know. (Most people have motives for making statements. I was wondering what yous was...)
 
@sbi not necessarily a bad thing, just it takes time to get all them to agree, etc...
 
@jalf I thought that list was ten peeps?
 
7:46 AM
@sehe you question my motives??!! :P
 
and good morning all :D
 
sbi
@thecoshman I am not sure where you are looking, but where I am, he's not an owner.
 
@thecoshman Morning. :-)
 
@thecoshman ah, you're right
@thecoshman he isn't :)
 
@sbi perhaps a very old version :S stupid browser cachine
 
7:47 AM
also, if anyone is on the frequent users list and feel they deserve it, ping me, then I'll happily relinquish my ownership in favor of you (as long as you're not a dick)
 
@sbi The good thing here, is that it is only a chat room, really. Yes. A nice one. I'm very attached to it. But it should be feasible to replace it if it ceased to exist. This makes it easier for me to reason about governing the room.
@TonyTheLion haha
 
being a room owner really truly honestly doesn't make a goddamn difference for anything whatsoever
 
derp, explicate write access :P
 
@TonyTheLion Heck, even the ISO committee delivered C++0x ... in 2011 :)
@ScottW Domagoj
 
@sehe hahah :)
 
7:48 AM
@sehe The "0x" is hexadecimal, of course. :-P
 
so it's really 0x11?
 
@Insilico indeed
 
@TonyTheLion No, it's C++0xB
 
It seems @jalf nominated himself for removal from the owner list. :P
 
@ScottW he ain't on the room owners list
 
7:50 AM
One thing to consider about room owners, is the time zone thing. From what I can recall, their is only one of the room owners from the states. Whilst there is plenty of overlap I am sure, some more 'mercan owners can't be too bad a thing
 
I don't get all the fuzz about being a "room" owner. Some people own a whole house for god's sake !
 
@thecoshman why? We're not moderators :)
we're just people who keep the room from being shut down automatically
 
@jalf no, but we they are a bit of a first line
 
not really
 
@jalf this whole discussion came about after an incident last night where no owners were present and a troll appeared
 
7:51 AM
people have some weird ideas about what room ownership means, imo :)
@TonyTheLion what would a room owner have done about it?
 
I believe only room owners can ..er, pin messages. That could be enviable.
 
@jalf counter trolled :)
 
@StackedCrooked pin FTFY
 
@jalf It's like the people who really complain about Stack Exchange reputation. :-P
 
Is it only room owners that can bin stuff?
 
7:53 AM
@TonyTheLion I think so.
 
@TonyTheLion fairly sure yes
 
I've been a room owner for a while, and I've never managed to find a big red BAN button. I can't do anything about trolls. You're probably right about binning though
 
yea I know the banning bit don't work
 
thus, only room owners who can help try to keep the spam away
 
If everyone could bin ..that wouldn't be good.
 
7:53 AM
but I can't remember ever using binning to counter trolls. Usually we just use it to tuck away NSFW images and overly long code snippets
 
@jalf which is a bit foolish me thinks, the lack of ban power, even if temp
 
eh, it suits me fine
 
@jalf Perhaps ask on Meta SO as a feature request?
chat.SO already require accounts to chat here, so it should be relatively easy.
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Room owners can pin messages. They can also unstar and unpin them. They can turn the room into a closed one ("Gallery", which has been temporarily invoked a few times) and regulate explicit access. Of course, they can also appoint (or disappoint :-/) other owners.
 
@Insilico but that assumes the power to ban is something I find desirable
 
7:55 AM
@ereOn But you don't share it was people you hardly know. And it isn't a place that is publicly accessible
 
I don't want the chat to be policed by people with ban-hammers
 
sbi
@jalf It's been done a lot, actually.
 
We all have some very useful ignore tools at our disposal.
 
@sehe: You surely haven't seen my house then :/ People come and go, it's a real mess.
 
sbi
@jalf We've turned the room Gallery a few times, when trolling became overwhelming.
 
7:56 AM
@ereOn That's your fault, then. :-P
 
@sbi Yup. Usually just to show trolls/vampires that continuing is not productive
 
@sbi oh yeah, that's true
that's not exactly binning though :)
 
@sbi I am assume disappoint was a happy coincidental pun? Not sure what the most fitting word would be
 
@sbi I remember the last time this happened struck me as premature/nervy. It lasted all of 5 minutes too, IIRC (it wasn't you, BTW)
 
@Insilico: Yes, I confess that ;)
 
7:58 AM
@ereOn So, what's your point about people can be trusted - some of them own houses? If they make that "a real mess" it doesn't exactly speak in their favour anymore, does it :)
 
sbi
Anyway, I suggest that everybody taking part in this debate goes and rereads the old debate, starting here and concluding here. Yes, that's a lot to read, but I really don't feel like rehashing it all again.
 
is @Mysticial American?
 
@sehe: No point really. I'm actually just here to make lame jokes and complain about my own choices ;)
 
@ereOn I knowz. I'm reflecting it back to you
 
sbi
7:59 AM
@jalf According to his profile, he is.
 
@sehe Just like a mirror.
 

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