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8:01 AM
@jalf He's a californian. That's a whole 'nother breed
 
Well, @Mysticial and @EtiennedeMartel seem like good owner candidates then. They're around a lot, they don't cause too much trouble, and they cover different timezones than most of the current owners. At the moment, Daknøk and @FredOverflow are owners who are off the frequents list, but that's probably just coincidence since they're both active here
 
@sbi ¬_¬ is this why you have thousands of tabs open? each one on some historic chat page that you can link to at the drop of a hat?
 
@thecoshman probably :P
 
er, how do you actually grant ownership, btw?
 
@thecoshman 6 letters. S, E, A, R, C, H. Or in your case, probably fewer, like e.g. serch :)
 
8:03 AM
ah, found it
 
@jalf That's mostly what @sbi was getting at with his epic saga, there are a lot of people, such as my fine self, who are active a fair bit, but are not 'frequent'
 
sbi
@thecoshman Those two I have bookmarked, because the subject tends to come up time and again.
 
@jalf ALTER USER <uid> GRANT <permission> ON ROOM LOUNGE_CPP_
 
There we go
A bit of job rotation
 
sbi
8:04 AM
@jalf Daknøk is certainly here more frequently than you. :-/
 
man, @Blank throws me off with his funny white gravatar, thought my browser wasn't loading things properly.
 
we can shuffle someone else in in a month or so :)
 
That's one way. Fair enough
 
maybe I'll get another go then
 
@sbi Not true over the last week, though :)
 
8:04 AM
@sbi yup. Hence my action :)
 
@TonyTheLion lol.. so I achieved what I wanted :D
 
sbi
@sehe Yeah, but certainly true for the last few months.
 
@Blank yes, seems so :)
 
@sbi Yup
 
by the way, I suspect that "the last few months" are kind of colored by my two-week vacation a few weeks ago :)
 
8:05 AM
But I am kinda stuck up with this avatar for 1 month
2
 
@Blank So... how did the 'optimized' version of Matrix exponentiation hold up?
 
oh you had vacation :)
 
I as pretty much absent then
 
@jalf I would so laugh if you got it the wrong way around :P
 
@sehe Finally I did it :)
 
sbi
8:06 AM
@jalf Oh. I hadn't even looked at that second of Feed's messages, because I just assumed it was you adding Mysticial. Why Etienn, but not Mysticial?
 
@Blank You're kind of 'stuck up'? Hahaha
 
Anyway, problem solved for now? I think @Mysticial deserves a go too, but I only had one spot to give up. :)
 
@sbi Job rotation. Jalf is not a twin
 
sbi
@jalf And daknøk not having had to go to school. Of course.
 
@sehe Yes, after I changed my name (to match the avatar) on SO, I realized I can change the name again after 1 month. Now my avatar must match the name!
 
sbi
8:07 AM
@sehe I can see why only one can fill in for @jalf's job. I was asking why this one, and not the other.
 
anyway, I think it makes sense to shuffle people out every once in a while. The simple fact is that we have more than 12 regulars, so it seems fair to give up a time slice in favor of someone else every now and then
 
@Blank I was referring to the common meaning of 'stuck up' thefreedictionary.com/stuck-up
 
sbi
@Blank There's a way around that restriction. If you want to, I am sure you will find it.
 
@sbi Oh aha. BTW s/by/why/
 
@sbi because my gut feeling was that I'd seen Etienne around more. Might just be skewed by timezones and such, but I figured I just had to pick one :)
 
8:09 AM
I think Etienne has been around longer? But to me, they're both much appreciated loungeians. Although, I personally don't like beer :)
 
@sehe So did I use it incorrectly?
 
@Blank You tell me - hahaha
 
sbi
@Blank Oh, you're @Vinayak!?
 
@sbi How?
@sbi Yup!
I am
> conceited, arrogant, or snobbish
 
you fit right in then :)
 
sbi
8:11 AM
@jalf Yeah, I think @Etienne is further to the east than @Mysticial, which is why you might have seen him more often. (I often see @Mysticial in the morning.)
 
which dot file are you supposed to use to set up environment variables on linux? I can never keep track. .bashrc? .bash_profile? .gnome-something? Something else?
 
ah, I can't edit it now
 
@jalf I think it's .bashrc.
 
sbi
@Blank "If you want to, I am sure you will find it."
 
@Blank Was this some kind of social experiment? You wanted to see whether you'd be bullied out of the room just for being a new name?
Pro tip: If you want to be treated as a troll, don't post insightful messages, and certainly don't discuss matrix multiplication as if you understand what it does.
2
 
sbi
8:16 AM
@sehe Are you sure you meant this as a reply to me?
 
@sehe "certainly don't matrix multiplication as if you understand what it does." Missing a verb here, no?
 
@sehe this was meant for @Blank no?
 
@sbi Apparently, he changed his name for some purpose
@sbi Oh, that was a mistake. I wanted to reply to the message about the name change, to @Blank. Turns out, this is an unsupported operation in chat, contrary to IRL
 
sbi
@sehe "...I changed my name (to match the avatar) on SO..."
 
> don't post insightful messages
 
8:18 AM
Star fishing? FTR: that is exactly what I meant to write...
 
sbi
 
@sehe no, I thought I misunderstood it, but then I realized it doesn't mean what I thought it meant but means what it should mean.
@sbi lol
oh and I'm not awake yet
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Don't mind me. I'm just pavloving.
 
@sbi Not minding you at all. :P
so you're loving pav ?
 
@sehe Man no, one of my friend commented on my avatar as green clouds, and I too was getting bored of the eagle, so I searched for a interesting image. unable to settle on anyone, I just took screenshot of empty browser, and cropped it, and uploaded it. That's it no experimentation, dude.
 
sbi
8:21 AM
@TonyTheLion So you say. I, however, noticed how you hastily added a smiley, lest you have to be afraid to have an angry gorilla stomping on you.
 
@sbi *mouth waters* What the hell!?
 
And a apt name to go with it, was well ____
 
@Blank That's an awful lot of effort to get a blank image.
You couldn't use Paint for that purpose?
 
@Insilico Psh.. that's low quality stuff
Only the best photoshop skills can produce a completely blank image
 
@sbi lol
 
8:23 AM
@Insilico That's quite easy and fast, BTW I am on Ubuntu, so no paint.
 
@Neil Psh. If you want real quality, you'd write a C++ program made specifically for the purpose of producing said blank image.
 
@sehe I hope my purpose is clear :(
 
Haha. What's your native language? (No need to tell us that you are unable to 'settle on anyone' :))
 
@sbi My mouth won't stop watering..
 
8:24 AM
@Blank Surely Ubuntu have a Paint equivalent?
 
@Insilico Gimp!
 
@Blank Yup
 
@Insilico Psh. Vector graphics is where it's at. Blank background with thousands of blank circles circling in beautiful harmony
 
Aug 24 at 16:04, by sehe
@Drise tuxpaint :) or rgbpaint or krita or kolourpaint4 or mtpaint or mypaint or gimp or pencil or openoffice.org-draw or dia or karbon or . If you are more archaicly oriented use xfig, dot (graphviz)
 
I use inkscape and I haven't looked back
Serves my needs for mostly anything save for photo touch-ups
 
sbi
8:26 AM
"My mind just went Vinayak."
 
@sbi What?
oh lol
late understanding
 
I'm being corrupted by Java... I just accidentally created an IllegalOperationException class in C#.
@Neil You.... do photos in a vector drawing suite?
 
@sbi what's the story with that user? I don't seem to recall him?
besides knowing he is @Blank now.
 
Feb 1 at 23:08, by sehe
@RMartinhoFernandes what kind? sketch? impressionist? For line drawings look at Inkscape, Skencil or Xara
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Nor do I recall anything noteworthy. I must have met him before, though, because I am following him on Twitter.
 
8:29 AM
@TonyTheLion The guy is kinda stuck-up
 
@Blank Lol. Kinda stuck up, mate
 
oh I see
@sbi you could follow me on Twitter too, but it's rather pointless, I don't ever use it.
 
@sbi: Saw the photos you posted on twitter, they seem quite amazing, specially the lake one
 
@Neil for fun: downloads.sehe.nl/stackoverflow/logo that was inkscape
 
what's your guys opinion on writing a comment to almost every line of code you write?
 
8:33 AM
Open doors. No need to kick them in
 
@TonyTheLion no comment.
 
Ha, @daknøk is on a break :)
 
@sehe what?
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion If you feel the need to comment on your code, clarify it instead, so that it is understandable without that.
 
@daknøk Just guessing
 
8:34 AM
Inkscape is terrible.
@sehe No I’m just at school.
 
@daknøk It isn't. I agree it is slow
 
@sehe You can import photos and "vectorize them" in the sense that it it becomes completely integrated in the vector file. While you can't directly manipulate photos, you can add masks and clip and whatnot
 
Slow software is terrible by definition.
 
@daknøk Ssshhht. The teacher will confiscate your iphone/ipod whatever
 
@sehe what? I’m on my laptop.
Also I’m not in class.
I just arrived at school.
 
8:35 AM
@sbi I don't have that need to do that, but I have seen it in places.
 
You know, I just entered this building of doom I’m in.
 
@sehe Ah, I see you're familiar with it. ;)
 
@Neil That's not vectorized, but I get what you do then - it's called embedding. I'd use gimp for this any day
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion You are on Twitter?
 
@sehe Well I don't usually import photos in inkscape. It sort of defeats the purpose anyway
 
8:36 AM
@sbi yes I am
 
I normally use inkscape to create images for our web application or to take client logos and add shadows or gloss, whatever
 
@sehe: Just to complete the matrix exponentiation, no amount of optimization worked. This is just a indicator of fault in one's approach. Finally my code settled on a 2x2 matrix instead of 4x4.
 
@Blank Hahaha. Surely you couldn't have thought of this ahead of time
 
@sbi no.
 
sbi
8:39 AM
@TonyTheLion Dammit, you dumbwit! You do need to give us your twitter handle if you want us to follow you! Do I really have to spell this out?!
 
@sbi just give me a sec
 
@sbi retweets a lot. But then, his tweets are the only worth reading, on my page.
2
 
No tweets are worth reading at all.
 
morning all
 
@DeadMG Morning.
 
sbi
8:42 AM
@Blank I can't help, but had to star that message of yours.
 
Call it my strategy
lol no
 
so I see there's been some fun about room ownership whilst I was asleep
 
@DeadMG Basically someone trolled their way into Lounge<C++> when there are no room owners around due to time zone issues.
 
looks like about 2 minutes after I went to bed
 
And the discussion was what to do with the fact that there was already a dozen room owners.
(At least that was part of it)
 
8:45 AM
I'll weigh in on this issue, later I'm afraid
gotta dash this mawnin
 
I don't think you need to. Hopefully it's all sorted. :)
 
@DeadMG Have a good day!
 
8:58 AM
@sbi changed my mind, forget it.
Please close this spam
 
@Insilico A duo, actually, as far as I've seen it
Stackoverflow is not for this. If you have a question about how the site works, see [META] — sehe 10 secs ago
@TonyTheLion Damn, too late to post this response to the subject line
> "I ♩ need ♪ no sympathy ♫ ♬ " (becoz I'm easy go :))
@daknøk Re: tweet, be glad. Otherwise they'd be coming to 'wiet bietsen'
 
Wietthee met paddopizza!
 
Taalfetisjist
 
Zwijg, jij dwaas.
 
You sound like even more of a troll in dutch, surprisingly
 
sbi
9:17 AM
@TonyTheLion Oh, now you are miffed. Sorry, that came out harsher than I wanted to.
 
Xeo
So, wtf happened last night right after I went to bed?
Btw @Blank, why are you stuck with the avatar for a month? Just change it on gravatar
 
9:40 AM
Oh man. I have missed Emacs.
 
Xeo
@Blank you can just change your nick on another SO profile and hit "copy profile to all SE sites" or whatever it is called
Btw, you guys missed the most important point of being a room owner - you can change the topic to funny things. :)
 
@Xeo Valid point.
 
How good is the tor name convension ?
I've SucceddedTor, FailedTor, etc ..
 
Xeo
What is a tor? I only know of it from ctor, dtor etc.
 
ftor
all callbacknames end with Tor
Is that good to have such nme
I've never named like that
 
9:51 AM
Why?
 
Nothing just to have a different name for all callback functors
 
Where have you seen that? Why not end them with "Bob"?
 
because Bob doesn't mean Functor in english
 
@NeelBasu neither does "Tor"
 
and Bob is not my father's name either :)
Hmm.. So what name is best
 
9:52 AM
just so we understand you, did you just invent this naming convention, or have you seen it used somewhere?
 
No just invented.
not implemented yet
 
It sounds fairly insane and arbitrary
 
he he
 
Xeo
@NeelBasu ftor... is bad, atleast I never called a functor that
 
why do you need a special naming convention for callbacks? What if the callback is a function pointer, and not a functor?
 
9:53 AM
So SuccessCallback, FailureCallback ?
 
@sbi No worries :) I was already miffed before that.
 
but if you want a specail naming convention for all callbacks, then I guess Tor is just as good as Callback, f, x, q or wxhf
 
Its always a class that inherits unary_function
 
they're just names
 
I just want a different name for callbacks
SuccessF, FailureF ?
 
9:54 AM
@NeelBasu then pick a name...
there's no international grading committee which rates the "goodness" of names
 
Tor is the The Onion Routing project :P
 
but anybody else used any naming convension for function objects ?
like some uses for Enum
 
The interesting thing about naming conventions is what they choose to name, and not how they name it. A naming convention is good or bad based on which distinctions it makes, on what types of names it tries to distinguish between, not based on which prefixes and suffixes it requires you to use
@NeelBasu sounds like hungarian notation to me, and it's a horrible practice
name your variables after their purpose, not their language type
 
if purpose of these classes are to work as a callback to be passed to async functions
 
If a variable is a functor type which is used as a callback, then give it a name which indicates that it's a callback. The fact that it's a functor is an implementation detail, and something your IDE can tell you anyway
but the fact that it's a callback is important
if a variable is an int which is used as the width of a window, then give it a name which indicates that it represents a width. The fact that it's an int is an implementation detail, etc...
 
9:57 AM
like class SuccessCallback, FailureCallback I can use
 
@NeelBasu if you like
 
but Callback is a long word I was looking for some short word
 
once again, we are not in change of picking names. If you like the name, use it. If you do not like it, do not use it
You don't need our permission to name a callback
 
Oh! Man I am not giving you any charge. what I am asking what other people uses ?
 
SuccessCB, SuccessF, SuccessFunc, onSuccess, whatever
I don't use anything. I just try to give them a descriptive name
 
9:59 AM
I See
 
Xeo
@Neel what does "SuccessCallback" do when it is called?
 
it depends. But from this name what I know is This is a callback type having operator() overload
 
Xeo
...
 
lol
 
@NeelBasu So it's some weird form of Hungarian notation?
 
10:01 AM
woohoo, lunch time
 
Xeo
Name functor classes after what their operator() does, just like functions. struct update_counter{ ... }; /* in a func */ async_operation(some_param, update_counter());
Or with a named variable update_counter on_success; async_op(some_param, on_success);
 
or counter_updater ?
 
Xeo
It's like std::less, they name the operation
 
Hmm I got the point
 
Xeo
But maybe I have a problem with naming functor classes since I never really write those. I have the luxury of being able to use lambdas whenever I need a small functor.
 
10:05 AM
Luxury.
 
You’re not missing anything, PHP the language as well as PHP the ecosystem simply sucks. — Konrad Rudolph 14 secs ago
 
Xeo
@LucDanton thanks
 
@KonradRudolph Just curious, what would you recommend as a "replacement" for PHP, since it sucks so hard?
 
I thought it would be possible to express tuple_element in terms of get but I'm not so sure anymore. Given an lvalue t, then get<0>(t) is int& for both std::tuple<int> and std::tuple<int&>.
 
@Insilico Nothing, since it’s effectively irreplaceable where it’s used (i.e. when you need a no-pains installation process)
if you have even a tiny amount of control over the servers, use whatever else you like, just not PHP
 
10:11 AM
I suppose that means I have to compare get<I>(lval) to get<I>(rval).
 
@KonradRudolph Okay, say I'm writing a new web application where backwards compatibility is not an issue and I would like to use a non-shitty language.
 
my only PHP experience so far has been nothing but painful.
 
Use Ruby (on Rails), Python with Django, ASP … it really doesn’t matter
 
@KonradRudolph Goodness I don't remember PHP being that bad. Then again that's because I got pissed off with it enough to stop using it.
 
to be honest I end up using PHP for the reasons listed above (i.e. I cannot control what’s installed on the server and it just has to run) but it’s masochistic
 
10:12 AM
@NeelBasu No, everyone knows: Bob's your uncle
 
Well, that worked. Somewhat of a disappointment.
 
@LucDanton Whoa. On the edge of sane library writing again :) What are you reimplementing standard traits for, today?
 
@sehe Those are utilities that make it convenient to operate on types with a tuple-like interfaces.
 
@LucDanton Ah, so still doing C++11 style MPL/Fusion thingies :) I think I got a link to some code before, but I wouldn't know where to find it right now
 
Egads get<0>(foo) is int& for both std::tuple<int> and std::tuple<int&&>, even when foo is an lvalue :(
 
10:23 AM
Erm, isn't that what you'd expect? What if tuple_element<0, T>::type isn't copyable?
 
I haven't thought too much about the ramifications of that. My code probably relies on it tbh, it's a natural consequence of reference collapsing. What concerns me is my puzzle: expressing tuple_element in terms of get.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Don't you kinda need to reimplement tuple_element to make get work?
 
Good Mornesh everyone
 
@Xeo I don't need to implement get. It's assumed to be here since this is about tuple-like types.
 
Xeo
mhm
 
10:26 AM
If you want I'm trying to reduce the tuple-like concept to be entirely in terms of get, whereas as of now you also need tuple_element.
 
Xeo
I see
 
@sehe I can discuss Variant or Covariant Tensor Multiplication and certeinly know what I am talking about.
 
I don't think it's impossible to express such a concept but I think it differs a bit too much to one with tuple_element to be worth it. I don't want to convert all bindings of rvalue references to move constructions.
 
@LeandroPezzente Good. Let me hide myself from view
 
does that makes me a troll ?
 
10:28 AM
@LeandroPezzente No. It means your reading comprehension modules need recalibration.
 
Maybe I was reading out of contentext , most certeinly I was.
 
huh
six flags?
 
Ohhhhh Now I got it .... ha! Dev C++ IDE looks so 16-bit retro. It reminds me of those Borland C++ 4.0 days.
 
@sbi The primary purpose of having the limit isn't to have a MAGIC_OWNER_SIZE, as it were, but to keep the owner's list under explicit control. And I have no problem if we get together and decide to extend it. But equally, if you want to keep it to a specific volume, I agree with the sentiment that we could pick from another timezone and boot off some of the less frequent European owners. Ultimately, as long as it's a concious group decision with a specific upper limit.
 
@LeandroPezzente That's because Dev C++ is ancient.
 
10:40 AM
Yup , I am aware of that now.
 
I think I'm a recent addition to the owner list, aren't I? I don't mind being taken off. There's always some other owner active whenever I am IME.
 
@LucDanton I think that you might end up being booted, depending on how the others feel.
 
If I ever design a programming language then true and false will only be valid in initialisation statements and nowhere else
 
if we choose to include some owners from the NA timezone, I'd probably pick Etienne, Mysticial, and Jerry Coffin. If sbi insists on keeping the count low, you could go off. But since you don't mind, that's fine :P
@KonradRudolph f(true);?
 
@DeadMG Would count as initialisation for my purposes
 
10:42 AM
@KonradRudolph Trying to prevent the if(foo == true) {} travesty?
 
@KonradRudolph You have a strange and broad vision of initialization
 
and maybe I’d also allow it in assignments. But my language would probably have immutable-as-default anyway
@DeadMG Why? It initialises a parameter
@Insilico Among others
 
@KonradRudolph So does if (foo == true). It initializes the parameter to operator==.
 
@DeadMG no, why? It creates no object
ah, I see what you mean
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph bool operator==(Foo const& f, bool b)
or even Foo as the second parameter if it's convertible from bool
 
10:44 AM
Alright then, allow it in initialisations (the C++y definition) and as arguments in explicit function calls
 
I'm writing ADL-wrappers. What are common candidates? I have swap and get already. I'm on the fence for begin/end so let's ignore them atm.
 
@LucDanton Operators.
damn, the Google recruiter wants to chat to me, at exactly the time I'm supposed to be dealing with the government money-giving people
how inconvenient of them :P
 
@DeadMG Who would write code requiring using foo::operator+;?
 
Xeo
@DeadMG tell them that you unfortunately already have an appointment at that time
 
@LucDanton Do you need swap if you provide a move constructor?
 
10:45 AM
@LucDanton They wouldn't, but that doesn't mean foo::operator+ wouldn't be a candidate.
@Xeo Yeah, I know, it's just funny that they both wanted the exact same time.
 
Xeo
13
Q: Move semantics == custom swap function obsolete?

XeoRecently, many questions pop up on how to provide your own swap function. With C++11, std::swap will use std::move and move semantics to swap the given values as fast as possible. This, of course, only works if you provide a move constructor and a move assignment operator (or one that uses pass-b...

 
@KonradRudolph Client-side wise I need swap when I want to swap.
 
@LucDanton Yes but you don’t need yournamespace::swap
 
Okay.
 
10:49 AM
or I may misunderstand what you mean by “ADL-wrapper”
 
It's a wrapper that does ADL on your behalf.
 
@LucDanton Even simple examples like std::cout << x; involve ADL- hence my suggestion of operators.
 
Xeo
@KonradRudolph Think boost::swap, it does using std::swap; and then uses an unqualified call to swap to enable ADL
@DeadMG But they're automatically ADL enabled, since infix operator calls are inherently unqualified.
 
oh, I didn't realize we were looking to enable ADL when it was previously disabled
most people want it rather the other way around
 
10:52 AM
get, swap and begin/end all have some kinks that explain the need for wrappers.
get needs a template parameter so you need at least one declaration in scope for get<0> to be valid, and then ADL takes place. swap needs to defer to std::swap for a default, generic implementation. begin/end needs to take care of arrays and then ADL should take place.
That makes them hard to handle in return types and noexcept clauses.
 
Xeo
@LucDanton What didn't you like with begin/end again? You mentioned you're on the fence with them.
 
@Xeo I'd like to use Boost.Range but range-for is in terms of std::begin/std::end. The latter don't handle std::pair for instance.
 
Xeo
ah, I see
Wait, would an iterator into a heterogenous pair return a variant?
 
Also whenever I feel that Boost.Range is too limited and I want to implement a feature myself I end up with member begin/end so it doesn't really matter all in all.
 
Xeo
Or do you mean pair as a range wrapper?
 
10:57 AM
@Xeo Yes, std::pair<Iter, Iter>. Not the general case.
 
Xeo
ah
 
There are parts of Boost that do return boost::pair<Iter, Iter> IIRC. But then those are not move-enabled. Madness.
 
Xeo
What I'd really like to be able to do is for(auto x : {it, ite}), but that needs some indirection through the initializer list iterators. :|
Which means I might aswell just write boost::make_range(it, ite)
@LucDanton Boost not being move enabled is just.. ugh, at times. Like with Boost.Asio, that seems to rely on compiler generated move ctors for some socket base class which MSVC doesn't do.
Also Boost.Filesystem's path
Anyways, gonna get some food
 
@Xeo I thought there was work being done to enable more move semantics and other C++11 features in boost.asio, in light of it being a proposal to become an std or tr library
 
Xeo
@KillianDS It is mostly move enabled, but seems to rely on some compiler generated special members for some classes
 
11:09 AM
I'm miffed that the callbacks are required to be copy constructible. I would have thought that you don't need copies, only to move functors from context to context until they get invoked.
But what do I know about reactors.
 
I think copying a callback is like copying a pointer object. Or function pointer. I don't see why it should be restricted to move-only.
 
A library requiring a type to be copy constructible rather than requiring the type to be move constructible is a restriction for its users.
Also you have a weird way of making an argument: what does it matter what you think?
 
@StackedCrooked copying could incur a large overhead if there are parameters explicitly bound to the callback itself, it's a bit more then a pointer object in that case.
 
I'm not saying that move should be disabled. I'm only saying that I don't see anything wrong with them being copyable.
 
Well you can't pass move only callbacks.
 
11:52 AM
Meh, I fixed a "bug" that turns out maybe wasn't a bug after all.
 
no, grrrrrrrr
an already angry lion, is now even more angry.
 
not for you
 

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