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3:01 PM
fucking ClearCase! how the fuck can anything be so shit?
 
@thecoshman Microsoft. I know they're not involved. But you can always stick that kind of thing on Microsoft.
 
easy. They learn from the best. And I'm guessing my future experience with Serena Dimensions will raise the bar even further.
 
oh you luck soul. You have no idea how bad ClearCase is
@sehe huh?
 
> the most full-featured software change and configuration management (SCCM) application
Sounds amazing.
 
it's aggregation to the point of obfuscation
 
hi guys, just a quick question. when we say class A is friend of class B. which one who can access to other's class private and protected members A or B. thanks in advance
 
A can handle B's privates.
3
 
@AlexDan if A declares that B is friendly, it is saying A trust it's privates in the hands of B
but the way you wrote that sounds like B declares A as a friend
 
class B { friend class A; }; now A is a friend of B and A can fondle B's privates.
 
thanks
 
3:11 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I've seen evidence MUCH to the contrary. I've done a pilot project with Serena Dimensions. We had to break it off because VS integration didn't work.
A simple 'checkin' would require a trip through a wizard-like set of dialogs, with way too many checkboxes, taking around 5 minutes to just build, very cryptic tree view of all files (no way to filter ignorables), manually requiring to accept changes to each file and finally (after some silly screens about related work items and other bureaucracy) resulting in error messages. That would return you to screen 0, only to have to go through the same again.
 
Well, sounds full-featured enough.
The "Oracle" way of doing things.
 
I once was forced to click and dismiss a 'Ok'-only dialog box with a silly warning about 120 times, and the dialog would come up in the background. I was foaming when that commit was rejected due to a permissions issue (there was a deletion that I couldn't do). RARRARAGE.
Yeah Serena Dimensions is full featured.
If shit is a feature
 
@EtiennedeMartel I think it fits the IBM sterotype better. Oracle in my opinion is un-userfriendly, cryptic, tiresome and crufty, underdocumented. BUT, it works, can be made to work very well, works on many platforms and you don't have (to use) crappy GUI's often
 
@sehe Oracle crappy GUIs are mostly for when you're installing/uninstalling/upgrading, right?
 
3:18 PM
At least Serena appears to be largely undocumented. Google comes up virtually empty on it.
@RMartinhoFernandes That's the only part I ever used a GUI for
 
@sehe That's good.
 
Well, IBM's business model is that you need to hire an IBM consultant to make the damn thing work.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No? No forums, no peer-to-peer help. No community plugins. No nothing.
 
@sehe Oh. I thought the sarcasm on that one was extremely obvious.
 
@EtiennedeMartel And you pay tonnes for both the 'full featured product' and the 'consultancy'
 
3:19 PM
I mean, there's no other way that sentence could make sense.
Right?
 
@sehe On the other hand, if you got the money, you're pretty sure the thing is going to work well.
 
Ok, you're right. But I wasn't going to stop moaning because someone made sense :)
@EtiennedeMartel No. You're pretty sure the pointy haired and suits will believe that is working well. That's cognitive dissonance for you
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm more of a socialist myself, but yeah.
 
I ate a left wing yesterday.
Chicken wing.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Is that a joke on right/left wing or something?
 
3:22 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Yes.
 
So, can I assume socialists are leftists?
 
You can assume many more accepted facts and conventions, if you like
 
@sehe I'm more of a carnivore myself, not a big fan of bones.
 
Robots eat meat? I thought they ate batteries.
 
can I just reiterate, ClearCase is shit
ClearCase is outperformed in nearly every way by a network drive with back ups
 
@Pubby We eat for pleasure, not for sustenance.
 
Does C have const? I recall using it but can't remember if it's standard or not.
 
0
Q: how to do context-free grammar?

user1372891Consider the context free language L = { a^i b^(i + j) a^j | i, j >= 0 } How could I write a CFG for this language?

 
3:26 PM
What sorcery would it be not to have const ?
 
Dafuq
@Pubby Me neither. I'd guess it was introduced with C99, really
 
any way
home time for me
at long raging last
 
@ScarletAmaranth Well, there is no name mangling, so const would be an arbitrary prototype decoration that you could easily drop.
 
oh @Mysticial, how reliable you are
"some technique I've never heard of"
it's obvious what that interface is for.
 
@stdOrgnlDave ???
 
3:28 PM
0
A: how to do context-free grammar?

ykatchouI'm not sure to understand what you mean, but maybe the dynamic keywords will do what you're looking for... http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd264741.aspx

 
Context?
 
Could there be a less related answer?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No, I don't see the link either
 
sorry that was @Pubby
@Mysticial you got a problem with 2 star programmers? hm?
 
@stdOrgnlDave No, because I do it myself once in a while. :P
 
3:30 PM
Good, because I'm...(drum roll)...a mega-star programmer, and I would take offense
 
In C it's kinda okay-ish to use 2 stars.
 
@stdOrgnlDave What?
And I checked and const is in C89
 
@Pubby for fun I wrote a program to generate a program that made a chain of pointers larger than my CPU's cache and then had to dereference them all to do anything
 
@Pubby Phew. I'll sleep better now
 
3:31 PM
Here's another example of what I call "hipster programming": meteor.com
 
If they were hip they would have a plaintext background with no images
 
@Pubby the inner loop had a few million stars dereferencing to update a variable
 
Ohh, that linked irony.codeplex.com looks nice
 
@stdOrgnlDave Cool
 
3:34 PM
@Pubby as you can imagine it wouldn't take million-character-lines so I had to use arrays of hundreds of pointers and do a lot of it manually, but I think you get the point
 
@sbi Good thing I installed Lookout Mobile Security the day I got my android phone
 
@sehe too bad your phone is designed so poorly you need it :-(
 
@stdOrgnlDave I don't think I need it. Curiousity really.
 
sbi
@sehe Bad thing that it's still questionable whether Lookout really blocked that thing.
 
@sehe I run a WM6.1 phone because I love its functionality. no fancy shmancy iOS for me except on the iPad
 
3:36 PM
stars<int, (-1ull) + 1>* x = new stars<int, (-1ull) + 1>;
rec_deref(x) = 5;
delete x;
Wonder if that would compile
 
sbi
@stdOrgnlDave Could you please elaborate? I have no idea what you are referring to.
 
@Pubby That's what's wrong with you C++ programmers.
 
@sbi no. there are already enough well-written papers about why Android is insecure, I don't need to rehash them. Google is your friend.
 
I think many people need it way more badly than I do - on whatever phone they happen to be holding. Vulnerability is often influenced by user behaviour way more than people would think.
 
sbi
@stdOrgnlDave Ah, so you were referring to Android being an unsafe OS? I hadn't understood that.
 
3:38 PM
That's the fault of marketers of antivirus, malware protection, threat scan, etc. etc. software
 
No wait, it needs rec_new :S
@Neil It may be wrong but it feels so right :)
 
@Pubby Much better. o_O
 
@Neil What's the problem?
@Pubby (-1ull)+1 is 0.
 
@sehe plus tard?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No problem. Just remembering my days as a C++ programmer and shuddering violently.
 
3:41 PM
@Pubby we had fun with @RMartinhoFernandes' attempt to template pointers and cause core dumps in every compiler instead. ideone.com/B4lWw
 
Gosh, not that again!
I'm sick of seeing that.
 
lolz
me too
 
@classdaknok_t později senere später αργότερα más tarde myöhemmin plus tard kasnije successivamente あとで 나중에 later senere później mais tarde позже ...
 
but he was curious
 
sbi
@sehe I am almost tempted to flag that. :)
 
3:42 PM
by the way @RMartinhoFernandes I dumped that on geordi-bot on IRC and he complained about syntax. :-(
 
@sehe Hey, there's some Portuguese in it!
 
@sbi feel free. But @classdaknokt may never find out that 'plus tard' was French
 
@sehe Yeah, I was wondering if I should tell him that.
 
3:44 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I sort of have a personal vendetta against geordi-bot so I was really hoping it would cause him issues, but nah
 
@sehe Really, what language is "successivamente"?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes however causing his stack to have to swap to disk certainly slowed him down
 
@RMartinhoFernandes s/c/cc/. Italian, my first hunch
 
@sehe je ne parle pas français.
 
Moi non plus
 
3:45 PM
@sehe Yeah, I noticed that now. At first it looked Portuguese, but with the double-c it certainly isn't.
 
@classdaknok_t J'avais remarqué.
 
toute de suite
 
@Pubby I hope you're not compiling that, it'll take upwards of 30 minutes before it dumps core
 
I'll stay with Dutch and English.
 
I hate being literate in only one language.
 
3:47 PM
@stdOrgnlDave Na
 
@Mysticial Pimsleur is for you
 
@classdaknok_t Promise?
 
@EtiennedeMartel valsspeler.
 
@Mysticial English, C, and C++ is 3
 
@Pubby lol
 
3:48 PM
You can't be literate in C++.
 
@classdaknok_t @EtiennedeMartel 'cheater'
 
Well, I couldn't handle Luc's memory allocator thingy. So I can't say I'm literate in C++.
 
@R not even with UDLs?
 
> Literacy has been described as the ability to read for knowledge and write coherently and think critically about the written word.
This isn't possible for C++.
 
why not?
I learn C++ from reading others'
 
3:50 PM
You can be litterate in c++
That's when you should consider a garbage collector
 
@Mysticial I don't want to make you feel bad but when I wrote that it felt refreshing to not use TMP/generic programming stuff :v Well until I had to wrote align, then pointer airthmetic got boring.
 
Not even compilers are literate in C++ (not including the writing bit)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes 'has been described' sounds highly non-normative
 
@sehe It's from Wikipedia.
That's as normative as it gets, right?
 
@LucDanton You didn't. I was never good with the "advanced" C++ stuff. :D
 
3:51 PM
@EtiennedeMartel actually that's the business model of lots of open source vendors like Red Hat, and also Oracle.
 
@stdOrgnlDave and write coherently...
 
@RMartinhoFernandes left
 
@RMartinhoFernandes are you saying my programs are incoherent?
 
Think it's high time we created a non-ambiguous speaking language, and we should model it after C++
 
Darn scrolling chat
 
3:51 PM
Hah, j/k
 
@Neil it exists.
 
@sehe That's it, every time @R says "right", I'm going to answer with "left".
 
@stdOrgnlDave Oh?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Man...
 
@EtiennedeMartel Shall I hand you my custom user script to help?
Served me well on more than 1 occasion
 
3:53 PM
@Neil trying to find name...
 
@stdOrgnlDave I'm saying C++ programs are.
 
@Neil You are using links/elinks/lynx/w3m? Vimperator?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I think impression is comes from a weakness in your reading rather than a problem with others' writing
 
@sehe Not sure what you mean
@sehe No, I only meant a non-ambiguous language you could speak, like "store point go parentheses" and it would be known that you intend to go to the store, though I'm pretty sure one would sooner pull their hair out than learn a language like that
 
Lojban (pronounced ) is a constructed, syntactically unambiguous human language based on predicate logic, succeeding the project of Loglan. The name "Lojban" is a combination of loj and ban, which are short forms of logji (logic) and bangu (language), respectively. Development of the language began in 1987 by The Logical Language Group (LLG), who intended to realize Loglan's purposes as well as further complement the language by making it more usable, and freely available (as indicated by its official full English name "Lojban: a realization of Loglan"). After a long initial period of de...
 
3:55 PM
Yeah, blame the robot's chips. Claim it's a manufacturing defect. Always the same excuse.
 
lol
what is-an-inherent-site-of that-which-is toilet
[physical pain!] [end emotion] [?]
 
5 mins ago, by Neil
Hah, j/k
^ what does that mean?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Probably a bug in the software, I'd say :P
 
@sehe Joking
 
3:58 PM
I think I'm gonna sudo myself a sandwich.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Very interesting, thank you for that link. I don't think I'll learn it, but I think I'll read up on it later.
 
@Neil Aha, it immediately followed my exclamation 'Darn scrolling chat' and j/k happen to be the up/down cursor keys from UNIX tradition, frequently employed in websites (such as gmail, github IIRC edit and Google Reader, for a fact) - you can see where the confusion came from :)
 
@sehe Tradition is a bad thing.
 
@DeadMG Beh. It is a good thing for you. Otherwise there would be less to rebel against. Kick it. Burn it.
 
I don't care about rebelling, I care about having nice things :D
 
4:01 PM
Well, without tradition you can have a nice, swift end to society and probably the human race.
For starters :)
 
@sehe Ah yes. I remember my college days when using an editor other than vim often meant typing ":q!" by accident
 
there are editors other than vim?
2
Emacs is an operating system, it is a common misconception
 
@stdOrgnlDave Windows has a shameless editor called notepad, but I don't recommend it
 
@Neil I have that these days. When hopping over to someone else's PC to contribute a nugget of C#, I'll invariably contribute a bit of junk like '{o' or 'dd...' first :)
@Neil not again
 
@DeadMG I'm not fau--help! I'm trapped in a robot software factory!--lty.
 
4:04 PM
Needless to say I trained my VS2008/VS2010 to respond to vim commands.
 
I just got an answer accepted with 0 upvotes when there were others that had 4 and 3 upvotes
 
int main { printf("Goodbye, world!\n"); return 0; }
Signing off
 
@RMartinhoFernandes don't worry, I have Java, I'm writing a RobotSoftwareFactoryDestructorFactory, you'll be free soon
 
@stdOrgnlDave not anymore. well, I can't change history, but I can change the vote count
 
@stdOrgnlDave Who are you talking to?
@sehe You downloaded someone else's trained plugin, you mean.
 
4:06 PM
@Neil error: function definition does not declare parameters
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I think it's pretty clear by the fact that it is a reply to you
 
is there a way to make gcc show which header files it's loading (full path)?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes several. ViEmu (VS2008) and VsVim on VS2010. I must say, VsVim is viable. I run into a missing feature every now and then, but I can always start external Vim with a keypress
@stdOrgnlDave You know, Java Factories must be Singletons. Everyone knows Singletons never die. They're like Sphynxes
 
@stdOrgnlDave But it doesn't match what I said.
 
@rubenvb doesn't -v do that?
 
4:08 PM
I say "I'm not faulty." and you reply that you'll free me?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes you are trapped in a robot software factory...RobotSoftwareFactory
 
@sehe it show which path it looks in, not what header it eventually picks. I'm trying to see what's going wrong with someone in something I can't reproduce at all.
 
No, I'm not.
 
@rubenvb see a doctor, you may be impotent
 
harhar
 
4:10 PM
@rubenvb Perhaps you can see it in the output of -E (#file directives)
 
I read "you may be pregnant."
 
@stdOrgnlDave I think he was quoting "lty"
 
@sehe yeah, that's what I asked for now. But reading a preprocessed file is hellish. I'll see what he turns up with :)
 
@rubenvb cpp source.cpp | grep '#file ' | sort -u?
 
ah yes
People are adding AUR packages for my mingw-w64-gcc packages. Yay! I feel useful!
 
4:12 PM
Yay! I feel I'm going home!
 
why should I upvote questions?
@MooingDuck lty is...what? also, hello.
 
10 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@DeadMG I'm not fau--help! I'm trapped in a robot software factory!--lty.
@stdOrgnlDave I have no idea, but it looks like a quote to me
 
Really, did I fail this much at convening the idea?
Someone was trapped in a robot sofware factory and left this easter egg in the software. It has now manifested, but I am totally unaware of it.
Now my attempt at faking an excuse for my faults is totally ruined.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, there's this idea that you're a robot. but @CatPlusPlus is the one who sounds like a chatbot...
where did this whole "@RMartinhoFernandes is a robot" joke get started?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes -blink-. Oh... Now this makes more sense...
@stdOrgnlDave probably when he changed his avatar
 
4:20 PM
gosh I wish people would ask more interesting questions
there's this one I had to dig into the internals of how CLI was generating code to answer, it had a bounty, I learned a lot, it was fun! why can't there be more like that!
 
Ell
Integer Programmers > Real Programmers? ...what is an integer programmer? :L
more interesting questions get closed :P
 
@Ell Ask "what is an integer programmer?" on SO. It's pretty interesting!
 
Ell
:L
 
what is an integer programmer?
 
@stdOrgnlDave a subset of real programmers presumably
 
4:25 PM
@stdOrgnlDave a subset of rational programmers, to be more precise.
 
perhaps Z > R?
 
Hmm, if process is using tons of memory but not swapping that will obviously hurt performance but can CPU still show up as being used 100%?
The percent is how often the OS schedules, unrelated to memory, right?
 
This looks so ugly: (*it)->parent_ = nullptr;.
@Pubby CPU usage is unrelated to memory.
 
More stars: (**it).parent = nullptr;
 
if it is swapping, it is actively engaged in something
 
4:30 PM
@stdOrgnlDave but swapping is done by the OS, not by the process, right?
 
But wouldn't swapping block the program?
 
@Pubby usually if there's no swapping happening, memory doesn't affect performance much/at all.
@Pubby sure, but you said there's no swapping
 
@MooingDuck Memory doesn't affect performance? What??
 
@Pubby if you've ever started swapping your memory, well, you'd know the answer is 'the program will become unbearably slow and still eat up all my CPU time'
 
@Pubby there's small effects from the L1-L3 caches, but not a lot
 
4:32 PM
@Mysticial Is this true?
 
@stdOrgnlDave he said it's not swapping
 
OH
he's got cache thrashing then
 
I've hypothetically got cache thrashing
 
@stdOrgnlDave possibly, but I've never had a problem with thrashing when there wasn't paging.
 
@MooingDuck he said there's tons of memory. lots of memory can mean fragmentation which can mean thrashing in some cases
 
4:34 PM
Hmm, maybe I'm using paging wrong. I'm talking about ram -> disk
 
@stdOrgnlDave cache yes, but not paging. It shouldn't be that bad, but yes, it can cause slowdown
@Pubby yeah, people call that paging
 
Moving pages from RAM to HDD is swapping.
Paging is a memory management scheme.
 
Ell
should I have a std::pair<int, T> or a struct Edge { int weight, T endpoint} ?
 
Oh, I did say swapping.
 
@Ell struct for readability. Pairs always have first and second which really sucks.
 
4:39 PM
@Ell What benefit does pair give you?
 
Ell
ahh kk
@Pubby its already there :L quicker?
 
@Ell You can't insert a struct into a set without conversion operator stuffs, though, so be aware of that.
 
Ell
hmm okay - I will google the errors when they arrive :P
 
@Ell It's not an abstraction though. Edge is.
 
Ell
@Pubby yeah I know, I was just being overly lazy I think. I <3 abstractions! As long as its not too abstract
 
4:45 PM
I was fighting with my linker for an hour, turned out I accidentally included a .cpp file.
Is there a way to make clang emit a warning when I include a .cpp file?
 
Why can't C++ accept a trailing s on template parameters, like std::vector<ints>?
@classdaknok_t </silly>
 
Why would you want that?
 
@classdaknok_t won't calling clang instead of clang++ do that automatically?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes But then you run into problem when you want a vector of cacti
 
Ell
is there such thing as std::initializer_tuple? So I can go MyClass mc = {"mc" 123}; ?
 
4:48 PM
@rubenvb I mean #include "something.cpp"
 
@Ell There is no std::initializer_tuple, but you can indeed do that.
 
@classdaknok_t that's just silly, evil, stupid... whatever the reason.
 
@rubenvb I blame autocompletion for it. I didn't do it on purpose.
 
@Ell std::initializer_list is what you want.
 
Ell
Do I just have to make the constructor accept a "POD" type in the copy constructor? Thats what copmes to mind first o.O
@rubenvb I though initializer list was.. homogenous?
 
4:50 PM
@Ell use std::make_tuple or std::initializer_list<boost::any>.
 
@Ell You can initialize list a map for instance, and a pair as well.
 
@Ell Just make a ctor with two params.
Guys! STOP IT.
3
MyClass::MyClass(std::string, int) works.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes maybe he wants more than one set of those parameters used?
 
Ell
:L yeah but stuff that works is no fun!
 
Program y u segfault.
 
4:51 PM
LIST INITIALIZE ALL THE THINGS
I love typing sudo init 0.
 
USE ALL THE UNFUNNY MEMES
 
Oh how I love raw pointers. You know… a wrapper around raw pointers that just initializes them to nullptr would be a good idea.
 
Ell
@classdaknokt another argument for my non_owning_ptr!
alias "sudo apt-get install"="icanhaz"
or something :P
 
@classdaknok_t boost::value_initialized
Works for everything, not just pointers.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that was merely one argument
 
4:54 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes cool.
return **pair.first; oh how self-documenting my code is…
 
Ell
I hate * before something - I have to have *(*pair).first
 
hey guys?
void *cur_ptr; cur_ptr = *cur_ptr;
2
 
@classdaknok_t *pair->first?
 
I am fail at figuring that out
 
Ell
ub?
void *cur_ptr; //pointer initialized to god-knows-what
 

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