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6:00 PM
there are millions of Japanese people who use it all the tim
 
Exotic is relative.
 
For me it is.
 
is it spoken by a significant number of actual living people as their primary language? yes? then it's not exotic
 
originating in or characteristic of a distant foreign country
 
user784668
@DeadMG Define significant number.
 
6:01 PM
something like Latin, that would be an exotic language to run Windows in
 
@DzekTrek I have the Chinese keyboard enabled... I don't use it much though. I should probalby just disable it since it's too easy to hit CTRL + SPACE in the middle of an FPS
 
@Fanael 42
 
Yey, range based for again.
 
tens of millions certainly counts as more than significant
 
@DeadMG, for us Westerners, Japanese is exotic, because few of us speak that language.
 
6:02 PM
Lol, 'way too many hands here'.
 
I just noticed the guy talking now says "stud vector" whereas one guy yesterday said "Es Tee Dee vector"
 
@Mysticial :)
 
Stoodpooter.
 
Es Tee You Dee vector @MooingDuck
 
Xeo
sub-zero
 
6:03 PM
But sizeof(a)/sizeof(a[0]), ugh.
 
@CatPlusPlus I guess he didn't see Stroustrup's talk yesterday...
 
Did he show templated array size thingy?
 
Bjarne generally warned against doing low level old-school C-style.
 
Xeo
@MooingDuck Stoodvector is STL and Herb, S T D vector is Andrei
 
Bjarne used stood, too, I think.
 
6:08 PM
#define __REG_IA64_ApKR4 3076 what a garbage collection ...
 
Smart pooters.
 
Andrei is the implementation that never surfaced
I don't recall the name
it was supposed to be blindingly fast
 
I have no idea what was their thinking to declare that register as number 3076
 
Hah, he's going to write make_unique.
 
I need to join to sceptic so
maybe someone over there knows what is it all about.
 
6:10 PM
STL is very confusing.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus I wonder if he'll just "link" to gotw 102
 
@CatPlusPlus Indeed, sometimes so confusing that in the search you forget what you was looking for.
 
Video down here :(
 
Xeo
Not for me
 
I'm commenting on the video.
 
6:12 PM
@CatPlusPlus That explains it.
 
BTW, @Xeo, did you write that nonowning_ptr after all?
 
:D That conference rockz.
 
Up again.
 
@EtiennedeMartel salut, ami.
 
Hah, he did link to gotw.
 
Xeo
6:12 PM
Nah, it's basically template<class T> using nonowning_ptr = T*;
 
ca va?
 
sbi
Mhmm. Someone just downvoted this old answer of mine without a comment. I hate that.
 
@DzekTrek Oui, toi?
 
Xeo
@sbi Don't we all?
 
6:13 PM
ca va bien. :)
 
@sbi I hate it when somebody downvotes anything without a comment.
 
So, passing shared_ptr by const ref is safe after all.
 
Find the quilty man, find! @sbi
 
@CatPlusPlus Why wouldn't it be safe?
 
I don't know, there were some concerns AFAIR.
 
6:15 PM
@CatPlusPlus yes it is.
 
I guess it would be going too far to say "always use weak_ptr for non-owned objects".
 
Someone just pinged me, but I don't know who.
 
Click the green thing.
 
sbi
6:16 PM
@DzekTrek Click the green 1 on your avatar in the lower left corner.
 
Tip: it's that image.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Party pooper!
 
Oh, I see. Thanks @sbi @CatPlusPlus.
 
Party pooter.
 
Party Peter.
 
6:17 PM
Peter Pan
 
@sbi counter-voted. but really, there should be some way to send a nasty malware thing to the downvoter.
 
Do you know that pan on french means bread?
and Peter is Saint Peter who was helping the poor ones by giving them a piece of bread?
 
it is pain not pan
 
Actually, "pan" is Spanish for "bread".
 
It was used in France too, all until 20th century.
 
6:19 PM
Maybe.
 
That word was particularly used on the countryside of South and South-East France.
 
You wouldn't download a widget.
 
Wut?
Is that one of those anti-piracy PSAs again?
 
sbi
@EtiennedeMartel ISTR it's "pane" in Italian.
 
Pay attention to video.
 
6:24 PM
ISNTR @Sbi Yes.
 
Can you move PODs?
 
@WTP Zdarowie, muzciek Polski. ;)
 
Don't think so.
 
Xeo
You can, but it doesn't buy anything.
No wait, PODs can include pointers, right?
 
user784668
@AlfPSteinbach: you know, you could've just said you want them to make main work for GUI subsystem runtime library.
 
6:25 PM
So RVO is still relevant to avoid copying when returning a locally declared POD by value from a function.
 
user784668
@DzekTrek wtf?
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked Yes. But I wouldn't say POD, but rather packed structures (no pointers)
 
Yeah.
Objects where sizeof returns a high value.
 
Xeo
But you can just put those in a smart ptr and move from there. :P
 
@WTP I assume you know Polish and it's localism, right? :)
 
Xeo
6:27 PM
Did you watch GN yesterday?
 
Xeo
Yes
 
I saw the first three talks.
Didn't pay much attention to Boehm or Böhm (not Baum) though.
 
Xeo
Ah, then you got that question on big objects on the stack?
@StackedCrooked Boehm
 
sbi
@StackedCrooked Böhm.
 
6:29 PM
@sbi We'll see :) I'm pretty good about doing what I say I will. I know what you mean, though. I have a PHP documentation project I'm behind on.
 
@Xeo Don't remember that one. I guess I haven't been paying attention at all...
 
user784668
@DzekTrek I guess you mean me. Well, what you said doesn't look like Polish.
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked There was a question on how to know if there's enough stackspace for a big objects
 
@DzekTrek It's not Polish. Might be some regional thing, but it feels more Russian.
 
Xeo
Bjarne's advice: Don't put such big objects on the stack (in such a large number)
 
6:29 PM
What was the answer? I guess big objects on the stack are risky.
 
But I don't really know Russian.
 
sbi
@LeviMorrison I'm good, too, but management doesn't agree. Once it runs, they think it's done.
 
We truly are an international bunch.
 
Xeo
6:30 PM
And you take advantage of move semantics by putting big things on the free store
 
In C99 you can have stack-allocated arrays where the length is defined by a runtime value. This may tempting to overuse (and cause stack overflows).
 
@Fanael @CatPlusPlus Muzciek means man( localism from the region of Katowice )
 
Well, I've never heard it.
 
@EtiennedeMartel yes, i'm here :-)
i'm going though
c u guys (later)
 
Xeo
bye
 
user784668
6:31 PM
@DzekTrek I doubt it.
 
c u @AlfPSteinbach
 
sbi
@AlfPSteinbach Slaps shoulder.
 
Xeo
lol
 
sbi
@Xeo This chat scrolls too fast for me sometimes.
 
@Xeo Ok, I only saw half of Bjarne because STL was starting. I definitely want to see the rest of it (and make my coworkers watch it). The whole talk (at least the half I've seen) was very relevant for our codebase at work.
 
6:32 PM
Dlaczego? @Fanael
 
Because your codebase sucks?
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked Ah, right, you missed the Q&A part
 
@CatPlusPlus Basically, yes.
And I want my coworkes to see Sutter's talk too. I want them to especially pay attention to the "always use smart pointer"-part.
 
@StackedCrooked Subtle.
 
Because if I say it then (I feel like) they think I'm some fanatic zealot.
 
sbi
6:34 PM
Wow, EC++, 4th is expected in 2013/14. I hadn't known Scott has committed to that.
 
@StackedCrooked I think they have more serious issues.
 
Xeo
@sbi He hasn't (yet, willingly, whatever)
 
There's a question mark.
 
Oh my god, Mass Effect 3 demo on february 14th.
 
sbi
@Xeo Well, not formally. But now that herb has said it publicly, I suppose they have talked about it.
 
user784668
6:35 PM
@DzekTrek Since you're asking in Polish, you want me to answer in Polish? Okay, though I guess you won't understand... Trochę śląski znam (a innego narzecza się w tamtych okolicach nie używa), nigdy czegoś takiego jak "muzciek" nie słyszałem; również żaden znany mi słownik śląskiego nic o tym wyrazie nie wie.
 
Me neither!
 
Xeo
@sbi, mind sending question for me through Twitter @GN?
 
sbi
> He's gonna hate me for saying that. [...] Sorry, Scott. — :)
@Xeo Why don't you do it yourself?
I'm not sure I'd be willing to post questions as mine which aren't.
 
Xeo
@sbi No Twitter acc, and I (ab)used the robot yesterday for that. :)
 
6:38 PM
Because he's a lazy bastard that said he was going to make a Twitter account just for this.
 
Xeo
Hi robot!
 
hehehe - Sutter doesn't like TMP
 
sbi
@Xeo Takes you 5mins to create an account.
 
user784668
6:38 PM
@CatPlusPlus: can you think of any Polish word containing "zc"? Because I think that this particular cluster is quite awkward to pronounce, even for native Poles. Which makes it even less likely to be a valid word.
 
went away for a bit - did Sutter mention modules at all for new language features?
 
sbi
@kfmfe04 No.
 
@Fanael Nope.
 
too bad...
 
@Xeo I created a Twitter account about a year ago because I figured it might be useful. And indeed, it is.
 
6:39 PM
snow everywhere
 
He said modules can reduce use of macros.
But nothing about plans.
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah, there's like a foot of that shit outside. With ice here and there.
 
user784668
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, same here. So probably @DzekTrek is just making this up.
 
Xeo
POLYMORPHIC LAMBDAAAAS!
cough
 
Polymorphic lambdas!
I like the third option.
 
user784668
6:41 PM
Polymorphic lambdas?
 
hahaha - clean syntax
 
Xeo
ABI
 
sbi
> You don't even want to know what SFINAE means. — Haha!
 
Unicode.
 
Yay for reflection.
 
user784668
6:42 PM
UB
 
Hey, is the Silverlightless link from yesterday broken?
 
Xeo
Modules > PCH
 
hahaha - "hard to learn" - how are you going to change that?
@RMartinhoFernandes - aye - have to use new one
 
user784668
@kfmfe04 By making it even harder to learn!
 
Does std have hash tables in C++11?
 
6:43 PM
unordered_map.
 
user784668
@StackedCrooked Yup.
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked unordered_{map,set}
 
sbi
I had to pause for a couple of times, so you now are all way ahead of me.
 
And unordered_set.
 
6:43 PM
That was a big missing feature imo.
 
@Fanael to keep out the Java developers?
 
user784668
@StackedCrooked It's already in tr1.
 
It was in Boost.
 
user784668
@kfmfe04 "Java" and "developers"? You gotta be kidding.
 
@kfmfe04 Ah, thanks.
 
6:44 PM
"eval" :D
 
Also declarations.
 
user784668
Compile-time eval!
 
user784668
I want compile-time eval!
 
Template Haskell in C++!
 
I gotta learn to copy+ṕaste.
 
Xeo
6:45 PM
@Fanael constexpr
 
@CatPlusPlus Wait what? Where?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Fantasy.
 
About compile-time eval.
 
6:45 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes mmsh://msstudios-live-med.wm.llnwd.net/msstudios_live_med?MSWMExt=.asf
 
Thanks. I got it now. Had to copy&paste properly.
 
np
 
Xeo
Damn you, buffering!
 
user784668
@Xeo That's no eval. I can't get the compiler to generate code which it will be later compiling with constexpr. I mean eval like eval in all these scripting languages.
 
Damn, I can't view the talk with Chrome.
 
6:48 PM
@EtiennedeMartel use VLC
 
Xeo
@Fanael There's no use for that at compile time. Just write the damn code.
 
Just a real functional language instead of CPP would be nice.
 
user142019
@Whoever mentioned me, I don't speak that language.
 
Even if the manipulations are mainly textual.
 
Ha, who flagged @Dzek's post?
 
user784668
6:48 PM
@Xeo Walter Bright would disagree. His language supports just that.
 
My hands are bleeding from dryness. Just found some 5 year old hand cream. Burns like hell..
 
@StackedCrooked Sensitive to cold, too, eh?
 
@Xeo Ask the puppy.
 
@CatPlusPlus Yes, although it's been a few years since it was this bad.
 
6:49 PM
@EtiennedeMartel what post?
 
user784668
@Xeo And some people found use for that. But compile-time capabilities of D are superior to these of C++ (can I haz sane compile-time strings?).
 
@DzekTrek Your last one.
 
sbi
Once again I will enjoy the utter absence of bathroom lines (for me!) at #GoingNative - sorry, boys!
:)
 
He should show how large Haskell spec is.
 
Java 7, laughter.
 
6:50 PM
I don't see it's flagged. @EtiennedeMartel
 
sbi
What? There's a C11?
 
Teehee. That would not help make his point.
 
@DzekTrek Yeah, you need 10k rep to see flags, IIRC.
 
@sbi Since last year.
 
Xeo
6:51 PM
Sure, sometime in december
 
@sbi Yeah, it passed in december.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes LOL!
 
It's the one with _Align and _Generic and stuff.
 
So what does flagging post mean anyway? @EtiennedeMartel
 
Lol at that library box.
 
Xeo
6:52 PM
IT'S HUUUGE!
 
That's no moon!
 
That's a Java!
Yes, more stuff in the standard library.
 
Bjarne routinely recommends Poco for things like Unicode and XML.
Well, at least two times he did.
 
ICU might be better for Unicode.
 
Sutter's comment about C++'s insufficient libraries was known a decade ago...
 
6:53 PM
And for XML nothing helps.
 
user784668
@DzekTrek As I said, the only possible source of localisms would be Silesian. I guess that people who live there know things like this better than someone from Florida.
 
Yay, mention of Poco :D
 
Good XML libraries?
 
user784668
Also, I gotta go. See ya.
 
Xeo
WTF is happening... my PC is dying right now
 
6:54 PM
@CatPlusPlus Isn't that an oxymoron?
 
Use std::regex for XML! ducks
 
The problem starts at XML
 
sbi
@Xeo Of old age?
 
@Mankarse The problem starts at C++.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yes.
 
6:55 PM
Lol, I am from the settlement of Palyn near Psary, Katowice, so I know the best how my people speak. @Fanael
 
Composable. You know, unlike iterators.
 
sbi
> Boost is part of the problem. — Wow.
 
@sbi I'd still rather have it than not! (Boost)
 
sbi
@kfmfe04 Of course. He freely admits that.
 
6:57 PM
Pickle!
 
they should just submit all of boost as a first round
 
Would be cool to have a GUI library that tries to extend the standard library instead of replacing it, like Qt does.
 
@sbi Hello. Saw your msg. Have you eer used asp with C#
 
@EtiennedeMartel What happens when post is flagged?
 
6:58 PM
@DzekTrek If someone marks it as valid, you might get a temp ban.
 
sbi
@LewsTherin Nope. No idea about the stuff.
 
Horny horns. It passed validation. See you all then. :(
 

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