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11:00 AM
"within".
 
and let's also moan about your use of ellipses rather then a comma or probably more appropriately a semi-colon
 
@StackedCrooked I'll let my wife know. She always gets that wrong
 
@thecoshman It's expressing a trailing thought.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that it may be, but then you failed to end your sentence.
 
@sehe I think most programmers feel that the period should come last (as it makes more sense for them that way).
 
11:01 AM
Guys. english.stackexchange.com
 
@RMartinhoFernandes well, I personally like the use of ellipses to imply a pause in thought; sadly I have taken to understand it is mad grammar to do so.
 
@StackedCrooked Either my wife isn't a programmer, or she changes her mind every month
 
@sehe Lounge<C++> where we discuss everything :P
¬_¬ wrong where?
 
@thecoshman I can see that (I have taken to understanding that using smileys to end sentences is mad grammar too) .
 
@thecoshman There are two ways of ending a sentence with a quote: one is to put punctuaction inside the quote; the other is to put it outside. One used on each side of the pond. I don't know which one I used, but it's correct according to one of them.
@thecoshman I didn't do it to imply a pause, but an unfinished idea.
 
11:03 AM
@sehe huh, it's not every day you make a typo and it still makes sense
@RMartinhoFernandes oh, well problem solved. As long as you are correct somewhere :D
 
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes Put punctuation at both sides of the quote!
 
@thecoshman But you can bitch about my inconsistency.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that is more or less what I meant
 
I regularly switch between the three styles (the third is what @Fanael mentioned).
(See? I used punctuation outside the parenthesis above!)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Again, you started a sentence with 'but', shame on you. However, what ever you do, it will be 'bitched' about, this is the Internet man!
 
11:06 AM
Isn't this "don't start sentences with 'but'" one of those rules for elementary grade schoolers to prevent them from misusing it?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes As do I, I am sure. This third option is what I personally would consider the best. How else would you quote a question that you where shocked was asked
 
user784668
@thecoshman Can I bitch you about you bitching him?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's one of those rules people use to not write butt ugly sentences
@Fanael You can, just don't expect me to pay much attention to it
 
user784668
Also, you started a sentence with a word. Don't. Do. That.
 
16
Q: Is there any valid rule discouraging the use of a certain word to start a sentence?

cindiIs there any rule you think is valid that discourages the use of a certain word to start a sentence? Because I suspect the answer is no. But it would be good to have a blanket answer to this kind of question.

 
11:09 AM
Any way, I've been pedantic enough now, though I will gladly carry on if you so wish.
@Fanael 1 reason why I will not listen to you there, it's stupid and I do not wish to write every sentence in this way
 
@thecoshman Like this: "How else would you quote a question that you where shocked was asked".
 
@RMartinhoFernandes With out a question mark though, that quote feels mall formed. Admittedly what you are quoting missed the question mark, but let us pretend for a moment that it did have the question mark; you would probably be inclined to quote it as well. Then, it imply you exclamation what I asked, you would want to also use an exclamation point, would you not?
 
@thecoshman :P
 
your mother's malformed!
 
Well, looks like we are back to usual level.
BOOBS
 
11:14 AM
lol
 
I will master this language!
 
sbi
@thecoshman Careful with those boobies, they can be nasty. (SFW, BTW.)
 
user784668
lol
 
> This would have more views if it was titled "CRAB ATTACKED BY BOOBIES"
 
@sbi epic
 
sbi
11:19 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes When I look at some code I often wish today's programmer were content with snorting coke.
 
Quick, fix the mistake in that starred sentence before it's too late!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes comma?
 
boobs
 
lol
-2
Q: Which flavour of C would most compliment a Java developer?

James.ElseyI'm trying not to make this question subjective, but innevitably some people may find it so. I'm primarily a Java developer, working on a variety such as SOAP axis2 web services, Spring MVC, and some android work, but I'm looking to expand my skillset (and résumé/CV) by learning some C/C++/C# M...

Final close vote, please.
 
user784668
Close for off-topic?
 
11:24 AM
I don't know. I just picked randomly.
 
got another exam in a few hours
 
user784668
It looks more like "not constructive" or "not a real question".
 
embedded processors from 1980 Microprocessor Applications
 
11:27 AM
@Fanael a badly written, subjective question that is not on topic and overly broad. Also, it isn't clear what is being asked, and compliments are called upboats on SO
 
@Fanael I think I picked "not constructive", but I didn't really pay attention. If I see a question with four language tags, I just nuke-on-sight.
 
yeah, I don't disagreethere
 
sbi
> Then again, the OP doesn't want a language that imitates Java, nor does he want a complementary language, but he rather seems to be in need to some ego-boosting and flattery. So perhaps a Thai wife would be the most accurate solution? As long as "You have great Java skills" is her catchphrase. — Kerrek SB
Haha, nice one @KerrekSB!
 
WinRAR
 
I don't dislike no lack of absense of no whitespaces in double negations
 
user784668
11:30 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes This makes me want to ask a perfectly legitimate question with four language tags.
 
@Fanael If you think you can do so, go ahead.
 
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes Therein lies the problem, that's quite hard.
 
@Fanael Add for an easy starter; Or do question on the API to google translate and/or Bablefish. You can give a sample in and
 
sbi
Wow. "157 questions tagged " I'm impressed.
 
I mean, you could find yourself trapped in a job from hell maintaining a Rails application that generates Excel spreadsheets with macros written in VBA that call into a .NET assembly written in C# that does COM interop against C++. If that was the case, I would probably have pity and upvote instead of voting to close.
 
11:34 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes No you wouldn't. You would just remove that tags that weren't relevant to the actual question at hand. Or vote to close as 'overly broad/not a real question'
In real life, a constructive question would always focus on a detailed area (e.g. "there is a problem with the interop", OR "I'm stuck doing the DDE with Excel from ruby")
 
Damn, you're making sense.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Shit happens.
 
lol
 
It could be a vomit ball of mistakes and bad practice in all four of those languages, each of which are minor by them selves, but when mixed in this way cause shit to fly
 
@thecoshman Yeah, but a question covering the entire scope would be too broad anyway.
 
11:38 AM
Or you could have a polyglot/rosetta stone type of question. I have this in Ruby, a version in Python and Assembly, how would I express that in Coffeescript? (<-- get the bonus of doing javascript at the same time)
 
I would nuke the non-Coffeescript tags.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Me too :) Or move to codereview, if opinions on the other snippets were required/sollicited
 
Yeah. My nuke-on-sight policy for questions with four language tags is really sound.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Not really. You could have a 'review-tags-on-sight' policy with that trigger
 
hmmm
 
11:41 AM
hmmm
 
sbi
hmmm
 
the lecturer is discussing an answering machine using digital memory instead of tape
apparently, the need for such a device to use a whopping 16MB of memory means that it would be uneconomic
 
@DeadMG duct tape?
 
Duck tape.
 
11:42 AM
<duck/>
 
user142019
My teacher just told us that you cannot have too many comments in your code T_T
 
@DeadMG my answering machine has been tapeless for about 6 years now. Only 15EUR and works with my POT phoneline as well as DECT/Voip router
 
@WTP On your next assignment, rickroll him in the comments.
 
@sehe Yeah, that's basically what I expected. 16MB of memory is no consideration at all.
 
user142019
@RMartinhoFernandes :P
 
11:44 AM
no, no
just write the good old i++; // increment i kind of comment
for every single line
 
@DeadMG He is quoting his textbook from 1992?
 
even whitespace, scope introductions, everything
 
user784668
// this is bridge
 
and make sure that every expression and sub-expression is on separate lines so they can be properly commented
@sehe Evidently.
 
// this line intentionally left blank
 
user142019
11:45 AM
// this is a comment
// comments are ignored by the compiler and by me
 
That was quoted from the source for IBM's VisualAge CPP preprocessor
 
@sbi It always feels rude to suggest a book Dictionary: Long words and what they mean, but you really wonder why people don't just say "I want to learn a language that goes well with my Java skills", rather than pull out and stumble over words that are too long.
 
user142019
I think I'll write my next assignment in C++ as a template metaprogram.
 
Oh, I added // this line intentionally left blank to some code yesterday. Removing it changed the syntax highlighting to python for some reason
 
@WTP O(0) - Solving Everything At Compile Time
 
user142019
11:47 AM
gotta go
 
user142019
check you in a few hours
 
@Pubby where ?!?!
 
@KerrekSB That would be O(1).
 
@sehe What do you mean? It was the first line
 
I don't think O(0) makes sense.
 
11:48 AM
@Pubby what syntax highlighter? context? link?
 
O(nothing)
 
user784668
Yeah, O(1/n) is enough for me.
 
@sehe It was geddit on a lex .x file.
 
This seems to stop morons from messing my code...

// Autogenerated, do not edit. All changes will be undone.
4
 
user784668
11:49 AM
@DeadMG That's awesome! Except that I worry there are too few comments.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That wouldn't be a sufficiently catchy book title, though.
 
@Pubby gedit, I assume. Gedit does realtime libmagic detection then? Uncool
 
lol
 
@DeadMG now that's programming :D
 
@RMartinhoFernandes // Code written by robot. Resistance is futile
 
11:50 AM
wait, wait, I made a mistake
 
@sehe It also inverts my color scheme on a whim!
 
@DeadMG Isn't it "prettiness"?
 
@thecoshman Litterate Programming™ (makes the preprocessor a Garbage Collector™)
 
I like 0; // with zero.
 
11:52 AM
dunno what you're talking about, my latest version has no comments that refer to any pretty derivates
 
// An infinitesimally small quantity of credit goes to @RMartinhoFernandes
You bastard!
2
 
harhar
 
lol
 
what
you wanted a miniscule smidgeon smaller than a proton of credit instead?
man
it's like, the inverse of your mother jokes
your credit's so small, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle applies!
 
Ha, found the old deleted "best comment" question: stackoverflow.com/questions/184618/… (10k only, sorry)
There's a lot of pearls in there.
 
11:58 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes page not found !
 
@RMartinhoFernandes i.imgur.com/T7iUn.gif // bad one-box!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Why did that get deleted??
@DeadMG Doesn't the UP always apply?!
 
@MrAnubis Like I said, it's deleted. You need 10k rep to see it.
@KerrekSB Dunno, because it's a poll?
 
@KerrekSB Not for scales above subatomic, I believe
 
@RMartinhoFernandes :(
 
12:03 PM
Hmm, getting to 10k rep gives you access to the stupid mod tools. It also gives access to the treasure troves that are some deleted questions from the first days of the site.
 
lol
 
experimenting with stripped down Debians in vbox - trying to install CrunchBang now...
is it about 5.5 hrs to the next stream from Redmond?
 
So, when you do if(x = 42), GCC suggests you put parentheses around the assignment to make it clear you want assignment and not equality.
if(x =/*=*/ 42) is much more awesomer.
 
12:19 PM
rofl
 
12:41 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes if(operator=(x, 42))
 
Doesn't work for int x;
 
Xeo
12:52 PM
@sbi I now am.
 
sbi
1:21 PM
@Xeo But I was out for lunch. I just wanted to plink you anyway. :)
 
Xeo
Thought so and already checked my mails. :)
 
you know
 
7z ANSI C version works a bit faster than C++ version, and requires a lot less code =\
 
I think that algorithm and data structure knowledge is less important than many people make out
 
... now I think that there is something wrong with C++
 
1:31 PM
more likely the author just didn't know how to code it
 
who knows
 
you'd have to read the code and decide that it was actually logical or sane and good practices
 
I can't read C++ version, it's a mess with tens of files in different folders
with no documentation, of course
 
@DeadMG Why?
 
because
it occurs to me that if, for example, you need a sorting algorithm
 
1:33 PM
std::sort
 
then all you actually need to know about the various ones is for example, their time and space requirements
 
@DeadMG it's important because O(?) matters
 
on the incredibly slim off chance that your environment's pre-provided one doesn't work for you
you can probably find implementations of any sorting algorithm you need for virtually any language
 
usually you don't need sorting algorithm. you need data stored in optimal way, or sorted data representation
 
I see what you are getting at @Dead
 
1:36 PM
so it occurs to me that knowing the inner workings of heapsort is not especially relevant
you can instantly find that knowledge whenever you like
 
you don't need to know exactly how each of the sort algorithms actually work in order to be able to use them
 
precisely
 
In our Algorithms and Data Structures class we covered several common algorithms. But the exams were never of the kind "write algorithm X". It was more of the kind "here's some code, tell me something about it", and "here's some problem and some functions, solve it efficiently".
 
I just did my algorithms exam, and it was "Apply heap sort on paper".
 
But you do need to be able to understand what it means for a sort to be O(log(n^2)/n) or what ever
 
1:37 PM
:(
 
I do think that testing some ones ability to work out basic algorithms by hand is good, but that does sound like you got shafted @Dead
 
so what's new?
 
Though, heapsort is easy. Don't tell me you messed that up.
 
eh
I'm fairly certain it was fine
I keep forgetting heaps
 
Quicksort is a pain to write because the bitch is full of corner cases and obi-wans, but heapsort is pretty dandy.
 
1:40 PM
bubble sort all that way!
 
actually, I did mess it up, somewhat
I never remember the heap data structure's invariants
 
Xeo
I never remember what heapsort actually was :(
 
heapsort is pretty simple
 
Stick things into a heap, take them out.
 
insert all elements into heap, then take them out
it's basically the equivalent of std::set<T> set; foreach(value in input) set.insert(value); std::vector<T> output; foreach(value in set) output.insert(value);
 
Xeo
1:42 PM
Okay. And what exactly was a heap? :s (No, I never learned that stuff.)
 
Except heapsort is supposed to work in-place.
 
@Xeo you don't know the difference between heap and stack?
 
Wait, what?
 
memory heap != heap
 
Xeo
@thecoshman Data structure, not free store vs automatic store.
 
1:43 PM
In computer science, a heap is a specialized tree-based data structure that satisfies the heap property: if B is a child node of A, then key(A) ≥ key(B). This implies that an element with the greatest key is always in the root node, and so such a heap is sometimes called a max-heap. (Alternatively, if the comparison is reversed, the smallest element is always in the root node, which results in a min-heap.) There is no restriction as to how many children each node has in a heap, although in practice each node has at most two. The heap is one maximally-efficient implementation of an abstra...
 
I always forget the heap structure
 
:P
reading time :D
 
Btw, the standard library has make_heap, push_heap and pop_heap.
 
something like an rb tree seemed more logical to me
 
@DeadMG Except that's not "arrayable".
 
1:45 PM
we didn't cover any arraying of heaps
although, now I think about it, maybe I just missed that part because it was a question on the exam
 
I mean, a heap is usually stored in an array.
Not with linked nodes like a tree.
All the heap node links are implicit from their position in the array.
 
oh right
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Only if the number of child nodes is fixed, though, non?
 
oh, so heap[0] has a left child heap[1] and a right child heap[2] ?
 
apparently, there's like, a footnote about it somewhere
 
1:47 PM
Ahnentafel list?
 
@Xeo Yeah, usually binary.
And there's an invariant that says that if the heap has N elements, h[i] for 0..N are filled, i.e. the array has no gaps.
 
would a heap usually only be used temporarily, rather then as a 'long term' store?
such as during a sort
 
Priority queues are usually implemented as heaps.
 
Xeo
@thecoshman I think it was 2 * pos_parent + 1 for left child, and +2 for right child
 
well, that would explain why a heap would be picked as the free store structure
 
1:49 PM
@Xeo Do the math.
 
nice contiguous storage
 
2*0+1, 2*0+2.
Any time you need an operation like "pop out the smallest element", a heap is a good choice.
 
and when you insert an element, would you compare it with the root node and then work down the tree swapping elements to keep them 'ordered'
 
man
so much stuff to specify
 
or do you just inset into the first empty slot the in the array that actually stores te haep?
 
1:54 PM
'haep' - I'm counting :)
 
I'm gonna go download Half-Life 2 now
 
I thought it was wrong :P
 
Yes, you insert into the back of the array (since there are no gaps, that's the first empty slot), and then repeatedly swap upwards with the parent if the order is not correct.
@DeadMG Gonna play tomorrow?
 
what happens tomorrow?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes oh, swish :D
@DeadMG :O
it's play HL2 for HL3 day
 
1:56 PM
oh that
sure
the important thing is that I was going to play HL2 anyway, because it's a fucking great game
 
HL3, on the other hand, is becoming a joke.
 
3D-Valve
 
> becoming
what do you mean becoming?
 
btw robot
 
1:58 PM
it's the next Duke
 
check out my ABI section on the specification
I'd appreciate your feedback
 
Did you upload that now? It wasn't there before, was it?
 
yes
I did just upload it
 

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