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2:00 PM
> This buffer shall be the maximum of the size of all exception types and the return type
Exceptions have a size limit?
Oh, wait, you have to declare what you throw, right?
 
yes
 
oh! as in Java
 
no
about a billion trillion miles away
you only have to actually declare what you throw when you're dealing with binary interoperation, effectively
 
What does hello world look like in wide-c?
 
Main() { Standard.IO.Output("Hello World!"); }
 
2:03 PM
Ok, I suppose the transformation only happens at interop boundaries, right?
 
yes
 
Ah, ok, because copying exceptions through one stack frame at a time didn't sound funny.
 
"H E L L O W O R L D"
hay! where did my fucking white space go?
 
no, I didn't expect that it did
 
So, basically, the functions place the exceptions into the caller's stack frame, right?
 
2:05 PM
yes
effectively, you're talking about returning a boost::variant<return, exception1, exception2, ...>
speaking of which, that might just be the better specification
nah
 
I like having ability to specify what the mangled names will look like. You can write a function for each mangling scheme and then it's dead easy.
 
uh
actually, my original plan was just to not mangle at all
 
Well, how will you import stuff from C++?
 
true
 
Xeo
And how do you overload?
 
2:08 PM
what's name mangling useful for anyways?
 
but it's not something Wide needs for it's own purposes
@Xeo Give them different names.
the difference between Wide and C++ is that you don't need reversabiity
 
Xeo
@TonyTheLion Overloading, templates, calling conventions
 
because I use a system similar to __declspec(dllexport), where it makes an import library?
and that library contains all the names
 
Xeo
@DeadMG What?
 
2:09 PM
so you don't have to have a reversible or even deterministic function
you could, and I will by default, just call them "1", "2", "3", etc
 
What about calling that code from C (and by extension, from other languages)?
 
so Wide will have no overloading?
 
@Xeo Each overload needs a different name to be exported. But those names don't have to be meaningful.
 
"There are no stupid questions, just stupid people" - South Park
This place really makes this quote make sense
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Well, you'd have to manually specify the name.
 
2:11 PM
Ah, I see.
 
alternatively, you could write a C compiler that can read WideC import libraries
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Okay. And you actually have to call them with 1, 2, 3 appended?
 
@Xeo No, of course not. The importing compiler maps them.
 
Xeo
And... how does the compiler know what's an overload and what's not?
 
because of the import libraries, which tell it
and they tell it the names
 
Xeo
2:13 PM
I think this will be easier to understand with a code example..
 
lol
It's not that complicated, really.
 
it's like .NET's metadata
you transfer the metadata at compile-time, load the data at run-time
 
I think I know how to remember where and were! Where as in here!
 
the process is completely transparent to the caller
 
@thecoshman Awesome!
 
2:14 PM
the exported name is an implementation detail that you don't have to care about unless you're exporting to other languages which can't read import libraries
 
shh
 
user142019
I'm back!
 
else, the import library is a pile of magic that magics everything to magic so it works correctly
also, magic
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Oh, so you actually overload like normal in C++ when writing a function, and the compiler takes care of adding the suffixes when exporting?
 
user142019
There is snow here outside! :D
 
2:16 PM
yes
 
Xeo
Ok
 
@wtp where?
 
user142019
The Netherlands
 
so anyway
now I'm trying to figure out wtf I'm going to do about Standard library components
 
@wtp oh you, it's always snowy there :P
 
user142019
2:18 PM
Last year there was someone in our class who moved here from Venezuela. :P
 
user142019
He had never seen any snow before.
 
if I want to make implementations completely binary compatible, I'd have to specify virtually all of the layouts and such
 
I'm still waiting for snow this winter
damn it I want my time off work!
 
and I don't want to constrain implementers
also, the garbage collector will be completely non-binary-compatible, of course, but there's nothing to be done about that
 
So, for C compatibility, you can at most throw 16E different exception types :S
 
2:19 PM
16E?
 
user142019
@thecoshman Nobody knows that it actually rains coke, not frozen water.
 
hm
I don't think I have a problem with that
 
also, I don't recall specifying any limitation on the number of exceptions
 
2:20 PM
@thecoshman we have lots of that as of today
@thecoshman time off work? non-sequitur
 
well, it's getting colde this week
 
@DeadMG Well, C implementations don't have types bigger than 64 bits (GCC has, but it's an extension).
 
@sehe k?
 
also, small bugfix, it should be "power" rather than "multiple" of 8 bits
I don't want anyone trying to return a 24-bit integer
 
2:22 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes C implementations don't have exceptions anyway. Effectively, for C's consumption, they can't throw.
although I guess that actually, if they threw POD types, you could treat it that way...
but anyway
I'm not bothered about such a limitation
not at all
 
Of course.
 
the main thing that I haven't addressed is the implementation of Standard library components
 
Without some PIMPL-like magics, you'll have to effectively pin down the layouts.
 
yeah
even if I reserved space for PIMPL-like magics
 
Having everything in the standard library be a handle feels like a managed language.
 
2:25 PM
then it wouldn't work, because functions in the importing library wouldn't know how to deal with it
@RMartinhoFernandes Even that wouldn't help.
actually, I suppose that it would
slow as a dog, though
 
What would the problem be (other than the extra indirection, I mean)?
 
the problem is that it violates the type system
you have two different implementations of the same type
even if they were implemented as a handle, you still can't interchange them
 
Xeo
I'm with the guys from GN yesterday. ABI specifications aren't something you can just fix on the language level, atleast not without totally pinning down what implementations can do
Anyways, afk
 
well
yeah, that's the conclusion I've come to
at least, I can't see a solution that reserves implementation freedom, performance, and the compatibility I ned
 
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
2:29 PM
if it were just values, I could deal with that
I could make values of different types work
but not pointers/references
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Atleast not without getting all compiler and platform implementors to actually agree on a single ABI
 
Ship bytecode!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes The entire philosophy of my language is that I can :P
 
Xeo
Oh, seems lambda dev is going along nicely in Clang
 
If only MSVC followed Itanium ABI...
 
2:32 PM
oh yeah
I'd have to specify an inheritance implementation, too
although that's not such a big deal
 
Are there many different implementations of those deployed in the wild?
 
not really
it's pretty much all vtables
 
Exactly. There's probably a reason for that.
 
oh by the way
 
(One is that I can't think of a better solution)
 
2:34 PM
how are member function pointers different, exactly, to a regular function pointer?
I don't see how obj.*ptr(args) is actually different to, say, ptr(obj, args)
 
aha
 
With single inheritance, yes, a ptmf is just a regular function pointer.
 
no, wait, I still don't get it
why not just provide a pointer to a thunk which adjusts and then calls, like in vtables?
 
So, today: more VC+11, Clang, static ifs and concepts.
Somehow I don't want to hear more about VC++11.
 
2:37 PM
I mean, &Derived::BaseFunction1 is a different function to &Derived::BaseFunction2
 
@DeadMG You could, but then you'd have a thunk per class * member function.
 
and? you need them for virtual calls anyway
 
And casts fuck up the thunk strategy.
> Casting a [member] function pointer can change its size!
 
*in their implementation
 
god I love thunking, it sounds so cool
I remember using it with windows API
 
2:39 PM
Well, I guess you could add metadata to the thunk.
 
well
I get that the implicit conversion from Derived::BaseFunction1 to Base::BaseFunction1 suck
although Wide doesn't have member function pointers anyway
or indeed, regular function pointers, except for interoperation
 
Woot, new GHC is super awesomez.
 
1 message moved to bin
 
thanks @Dead
 
no probs
 
2:43 PM
Me thinks me shall spend the weekend working my Java/OpenGL game library...
which is probably easiest if I take my work laptop with me ¬_¬
 
Xeo
@DeadMG It's the other way around.
 
> If you have too old a version of libc, then you will get an error like "floating point exception" from the binaries in these bindists. You will need to either upgrade your libc (we're not sure what the minimum version required is)
Awesome.
 
Xeo
btw @DeadMG, here're some good reads about the quirks of PTMFs:
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/7150/Member-Function-Pointers-and-the-Fastest-Possible
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/18389/Fast-C-Delegate-Boost-Function-drop-in-replacement
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/11015/The-Impossibly-Fast-C-Delegates
 
Could you look at my thread?
 
"hamburger", not 'hamburger'.
 
2:55 PM
Looking at my code...
 
Same goes for 'y', 'yes', etc.
@CoffeeRain I looked. And your problem is that you need to use double quotes.
 
I fixed that
 
sbi
49 secs ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Same goes for 'y', 'yes', etc.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG: So in effect, yes, PTMFs are just thunks. However, they require extra data to work correctly
 
I put in a new error message for my new code
 
2:58 PM
==, not =.
 
sbi
@CoffeeRain I still see the code that messes up ' and ". If that code is not what causes the error messages you pasted, do you expect me to be psychic?
 
Thanks! :D @RMartinhoFernandes
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Ha! I had looked for that based on the error message, but then got bored after seeing a few ==, and didn't check the last one... :-/
 
That was a very simple mistake. :|
 
Try to understand the error messages, the compiler does its best to tell you what's wrong
 
3:00 PM
Sadly, C++ compilers are not good at telling what is wrong.
 
Yeah, that last error message confused me though
 
When templates are involved, the situation gets worse
but actually given how complicated templates in C++ are
they still do a fair job
you see, it says
so that means that "||" doesn't see "bool"s as its operands
 
In this one, I'm going to totally put the blame on GCC.
Because:
‘((std::operator== [with _CharT = char, _Traits = std::char_traits<char>, _Alloc = std::allocator<char>](((const std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >&)((const std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >*)(& opt))), ((const char*)"y")) || std::operator== [with _CharT = char, _Traits = std::char_traits<char>, _Alloc = std::allocator<char>](((const std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >&)((const std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >*)(& opt))), ((const char*)"Y
It can do much better.
 
That's one is a bit hairy, I agree
but I believe he's using an old GCC version
nowadays if there's "=" inside an if statement it warns you
 
I copy-pasted that from 4.5.
(Latest is 4.6)
 
3:03 PM
@sbi Could you explain what I should do in the future?
Too localized. "This question is unlikely to ever help any future visitors; it is only relevant to [...] an extraordinarily narrow situation that is not generally applicable to the worldwide audience of the internet."
 
maybe that's when they've changed it
 
@enobayram you would think that would have been added a long time ago
 
This is from 4.6...
a.cpp: In function 'int main()':
a.cpp:24:69: error: no match for 'operator||' in '((std::operator==<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >((*(const std::basic_string<char>*)(& opt)), ((const char*)"y")) || std::operator==<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >((*(const std::basic_string<char>*)(& opt)), ((const char*)"Y"))) || std::operator==<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >((*(const std::basic_string<char>*)(& opt)), ((const char*)"yes"))) || opt
About half as big.
Still a mess.
 
sbi
@CoffeeRain You didn't really do wrong, but it's very unlikely anyone will ever be helped by seeing this question, so I voted to close it.
 
Though at least in 4.6 it gives the column of the error.
 
3:06 PM
Sadly, the open-source tools are not optimised for newbies
 
You think MSVC does better? lol
 
any seasoned C++ programmer will have learned to read through templated error messages
 
@sbi Ah...
 
@sbi I think you mad a bad decision there
Whilst a very broad question, it is still perfectly valid IMO
 
sbi
3:07 PM
@thecoshman I'm not mad. I'm a gorilla. For gorillas, I'm sane.
 
It's not broad. It's too specific.
 
sbi
@thecoshman No, it's not too broad, it too narrow.
3 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
You bastard!
 
what I meant was, it's a "I'm stuck, please help" sort of question
 
Ow. Quoting me for that is... Ow.
 
I think the lines containing "warning: character constant too long for its type" will attract many people trying to define strings with single quotes
 
3:09 PM
with perhaps a bit of editing to focus the questions, I think it could be made into a very good question
 
I agree, having the error message in the question helps people land there from Google.
 
sbi
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: When templates are involved, the situation gets worse. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
and surely having a specific edge case question is good. Is it not those edge cases that take the longest to solve, not because they are to solve as such, but because they come up so very rarely.
 
can anybody help me here with the makecontext() function?
 
sbi
@thecoshman Yeah, it was actually asking "help me fix this code". In that, it is broad. But this question will only ever help someone else if they have nearly identical code. In that, it is too narrow.
@thecoshman Do that and I'll upvote it and remove my comment. Until then, I want it closed.
 
3:12 PM
@sbi Not anymore! It has the error message in the title. It will help someone with ' instead of ".
:P
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Ok, I've looked at it now and you've convinced me.
 
huh... since when do my edits need to be peer reviewed?
 
You need 3k to have full edit privileges, I think.
Until then, you get rep for edits, but they need review.
 
I am sure I was able to edit before though... maybe I just never noticed
 
ok
going to ship off to my exam on embedded processors in industrial environments in 1980
 
3:16 PM
I'm using boost filesystem3 on my local machine, but my production machine uses boost::filesystem2. Is there a way I can specify which one to use on my local machine? I can't find it in the docs.
 
Ah, no, it's 2k.
@LeviMorrison define BOOST_FILESYSTEM_VERSION to 2.
 
@LeviMorrison what OS are you running?
 
sbi
Can somebody please co-approve these edits? I can't apply mine as long as his aren't approved...
 
> Define macro BOOST_FILESYSTEM_VERSION as 2 to use Version 2. This is the default for release 1.44 and 1.45.
 
im like 400 of creating tags
 
3:17 PM
What does interpose mean? I am doing AI list of behaviours and some of the task is to implement interpose? What is that?
There is nothing on the web for that word.
 
@sbi I manufacture an edit link and sidestep that stupidity.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes What's the edit link for this question?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It still uses filesystem3
 
@LeviMorrison It's the 8th sentence in the docs! You didn't look enough.
 
> no known conversion for argument 1 from ‘boost::filesystem3::path’ to ‘std::string {aka std::basic_string<char>}’
 
3:19 PM
Boost 1.48 does not have filesystem 2. What version of boost do you have?
 
does makecontext(task ,...) needs setcontext() to call a task?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Unsure. I'm on Ubuntu 11.10. How to find out? I know I just use sudo apt-get install libboost-dev to install.
My production machine is running Fedora 14 and I can't touch system stuff.
 
There's a BOOST_VERSION macro (stackoverflow.com/questions/3708706/…).
If you don't want to set up code to print that, open the file /usr/include/boost/version.hpp (or similar, adjust for your system) and look.
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks. I find it silly that I can edit a question myself, but once someone else did, I can't approve of what I'd done myself. That's just silly.
 
@sbi Retarded.
 
3:25 PM
@sbi I did notice that your edit is more or less the same as what I did
 
sbi
8
A: Unable to edit posts with pending edits

wafflesThis has been possible for quite a while. If you would like to edit a post that has a pending edit, you can click the improve button. This will automatically accept the edit and let you continue from there. We are seeing about 80 or so posts a day, being "improved". That is, the edit suggesti...

@thecoshman You fixed the indentation, I fixed that and edited the code a lot more.
 
@sbi Oh, they actually fixed it. (Originally, there was no improve button)
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes No, not fully:
5
A: Unable to edit posts with pending edits

DeadMGI don't really believe that this is a solution to the problem, because the Improve button will only work if I wanted to accept the pending edit. If I wanted to reject it and then work from there, this doesn't really work out.

 
@RMartinhoFernandes 104601. I assume that's 1.46?
 
Oh, well, I know how to circumvent it (I seem to be collecting lots of tricks for working around this system...)
@LeviMorrison 1.46.1, yeah.
Hmm.
Did you build filesystem2 when you installed it?
Oh, wait, you apt-geted it.
Let's see how you can check that...
 
sbi
3:29 PM
11
Q: Instant edit approval for high-rep users

TomalakI know this has been asked before, but obviously there's still something that keeps this from being implemented/fixed. I am a pretty active editor on SO. In fact, I do edit a lot more questions than I answer. I have the Strunk-and-White badge, and if that one would stack I would have it several ...

 
Try running ls /usr/lib/libboost_filesystem* and see if it's there.
 
@sbi so you did
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yep.
 
@LeviMorrison Huh, what are you doing here?
 
@NikiC I do program in C/C++ too :)
 
3:33 PM
@LeviMorrison Back in the PHP room with you :P
 
Well, I don't know what else to do.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks. I guess I'll be developing in production on this one.
 
How did you define BOOST_FILESYSTEM_VERSION?
 
Dear God, I just have found interpose is cohesion. :D
 
Is it before you include the headers?
 
sbi
3:44 PM
0
A: Instant edit approval for high-rep users

sbiI strongly support this. I'm a 50k user. I have been around for >2 years. I suppose I, too, would have several Strunk and Write badges. I mostly edit in a tag for which I would have four gold badges, if those could be stacked. I'm usually careful when editing, and when I'm not sure I ask regula...

 
@sbi btw, when you mention the Strunk and White badge, you could mention the Copy Editor badge (gold, 500 edits instead of 80) instead.
(Also, "White")
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks, good find! I changed this.
 
@sbi Arggh, can't do 1-char edits on meta. Can you fix "rational" to "rationale"?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Thanks again. That's another one of my pet peeves, BTW.
 
"Newest 'pointer' questions". This explains why refreshing "the C++ tag" didn't yield any new questions in 3 hours :(
 
3:57 PM
@sbi can you write the German word for squirrel as it would be pronounced please
 
skwerrelisch?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes Huh??
 
@sbi I had a tab filtered on the 'pointers' tag but I thought it was on 'c++'. I kept refreshing, but no new questions showed up.
 
sbi
@thecoshman It's "Eichhörnchen". In German, all words are pronounced exactly as they are written. (We do use other rules how letters are spoken, but they are very consistent. Or so Mark Twain once remarked.)
 
what I mean is, if I read that, It would sound like 'eech-horn-chen'
would thatbe right
 
sbi
4:01 PM
@thecoshman Since I don't believe you're able to properly pronounce the "ch" sound as it is spoken after a "ei" vocal or in the "-chen" suffix, and since it doesn't have an English equivalent, and since native English seem to be unable to tell "ö" from "o", I suppose there's no way I could properly describe it in English.
 
IPA to the rescue.
 
sbi
The "ei", however, is pronounced like the English "I" (aka "me").
 
so it would start more like 'ike'
 
sbi
@thecoshman Yeah, except that "ch" not spoken as a "k".
 
4:04 PM
I get the feeling chat rooms are not the best place to work out how to pronounce foreign words :P
 
sbi
@thecoshman You can listen here.
 
German "ch" is pronounced like χ in Greek. Hope that helps.
(I am not making this up.)
 
This may sound absolutely retarded, but how do I append an int to a std::string ? += doesn't work properly.
 
no, I can't pronounce that :P
 
Do I have to do that stupid sstream trick to get a char*?
 
4:06 PM
sounds a bit like 'ise-vise-ren'
 
@LeviMorrison boost::lexical_cast
You can do the sstream trick yourself, but that's what boost::lexical_cast does.
 
// If boost is not available, then this also works
template<typename T>
std::string ConvertToString(const T & value) {
    std::stringstream ss;
    ss << value;
    return ss.str();
}
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes It's not that simple. There's two ways to pronounce it, and they are very different. it depends on the vocal before it. After "a", "o", and "u", it's pronounced remarkably similar to the Scottish "loch". After "e" and "i", it a much softer sound not made in your throat, but with the tongue against the palate.
 
@sbi And there are two ways to pronounce χ, and they are both exactly the same as in German.
 
@thecoshman what does?
 
sbi
4:10 PM
@LeviMorrison In C++, we don't concat lots of stuff into strings, and then putput them. Rather than that, we stream lots of stuff — into a string stream if we need a string. There must be many SO questions about that, and I bet one in the tag.
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, I didn't know that! I never had any Greek.
 
sbi
12
Q: How to convert a number to string and vice versa in C++

Armen TsirunyanSince this question gets asked about every week, this FAQ might help a lot of users. How to convert an integer to a string in C++ how to convert a string into an integer in C++ how to convert a floating-point number to a string in C++ how to convert a string to a floating-point number in C++

 
@sbi Unfortunately I'm on a short time frame to get this to work, so I'm just using what I know unless its critical. Thanks, though.
 
@sbi boost :P
 
@thecoshman how about iχe-hern-gyun? The second syllable was waaaaaay off
 
sbi
4:13 PM
@sehe What's "gyun"?
 
@sehe well, this funny sunken X is strange to me. I only know x as in 'echs'
 
It's Greek chi.
 
eyes-his-vren (that last bit is definitely as 'vren' sound)
 
@thecoshman no problem, keep listening or replace it with even funnier approximations: ij - hern - gyun :) I was pointing out the second syllable, remember
@thecoshman I propose you ask a new set of ears for christmas. Or better speakers
 
eyes-hine-vren maybe...
 
4:16 PM
@sbi To be honest, I can't pronounce that shit properly. It just doesn't like my vocal apparatus. But it's one of the few bits of German I can read.
 
New lesson today. You don't have to be a native coder to appreciate the lessons from the Going Native event.
 
@sehe yeah, but are you saying that phonetically as English?
needless to say, I am working really hard right now :P
it is curious though, I think, that even though we all have the same vocal system, we have managed to devise ways of speaking that are really hard to outsiders to learn to do.
@Sbi I assume you are able to speak English as well
 
sbi
@thecoshman No. I now like to think our "ö" sounds similar enough to your "o" in the American pronunciation of "work", so that is a hurdle overcome. I don't have any idea how to describe "ch" to a native English speaker, though, except for remarking that, in Swiss German, they pronounce it with the throaty version, as in the Scottish "loch". If you want to go with that, "eykh-hörn-khen" might be as close as you get.
 
The voiceless palatal fricative is a type of consonantal sound used in some spoken languages. The symbol in the International Phonetic Alphabet that represents this sound is ⟨⟩. The symbol ç is the letter c with a cedilla, as used to spell French words such as façade. However, the sound represented by the letter ç in French and English orthography is not a voiceless palatal fricative but , the voiceless alveolar fricative. Palatal fricatives are relatively rare phonemes, and only 5% of the world's languages have as a phoneme. The sound occurs, however, as an allophone of in German, or, ...
@sbi Isn't "kh" pronounced just like "k" in English?
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I#ve seen it used to describe the throaty German "ch" for English speakers.
 
4:24 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes well, a k is either 'kay' of 'kuh' depending on vowels etc.
 
Wikipedia says it's pronounced like the "h" in "hue" (English).
But it's unpronounceable after a vowel.
 
home time for me
if I ever manage to turn of this thing :P
see ya guys :D
 
@thecoshman no use in me trying to go home: traphic.nl
 
Where the fuck did chat find that picture on the Wikipedia article I linked?
 
4:27 PM
Did I mention it snowed
@RMartinhoFernandes that's a good question. I didn't find it :)
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes There's a <a href="/wiki/File:IPA_consonants_2005.png> in the page's source, which refers to the image, but I'm not patient enough to try to understand that source.
 
Oh, it's the consonant chart at the bottom.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes @sbi Thanks for your help. I'll make project deadlines. After that I'll refactor. Thank you!
 
sbi
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't see it.
 
It's hidden by the default. You have to click "show".
 
sbi
4:39 PM
@LeviMorrison Yeah, you always say this. After 15 years in the industry, I have learned that this is never true. Either you code cleanly all the time, or the code stays dirty. :-/
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah! Damn hard to find, that one.
 
4:56 PM
If I run one form A from constructor of another form B, then form B becomes parent of first form A?
 

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