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Xeo
Xeo
00:00
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: We're closed. Everybody's watching GoingNative. channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/GoingNative-2012 [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
Panel time!
@LucDanton and logs are kept for quite a while too: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10/2010/10/15, with a search box woot
what is GoingNative?
C++ conference with live feed
@LearningC It's THE FUTURE
00:01
Wait, where's my sound?
mine's gone, too
I have to install silverlight to watch it -.-
@LearningC yes
Xeo
Xeo
Yay, STL's there too, even though he wasn't on the list
Sound back.
00:01
2 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
GoingNative live stream, Silverlight-free.
@MooingDuck Not really, see starboard.
Xeo
Xeo
Anybody got a twitter account?
@sehe how you get history chat!
What do you want to ask?
00:02
@Xeo I do! I tweeted something once!
@FredOverflow Why betray me :(
Xeo
Xeo
Ask about modules!
@LucDanton How did they betray you?
@LearningC by clicking links. You can, too!
@LearningC it's a webpage, you click links?
00:02
Oh wait, Bjarne does look a bit older than I remembered him.
@FredOverflow I was just thinking that
What's the hashtag for questions?
@sehe But still Google won't index this chat. My professor won't have a clue I ask the question on here.
@RMartinhoFernandes #Ch9Live or #GoingNative
Xeo
Xeo
00:04
> Just tweet them to #Ch9Live or #GoingNative
@LearningC sure it does, we already disproved that
7 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
http://www.google.com/#q=chat+stackoverflow+lounge+sex
Big Fucking Deal ™
I'm going to make a wild stab, he won't have a clue anyways, and he won't care. As long aas _you_ **learn** the stuff, and he doesn't even have to _teach_ you himself?
What should the question be: "Modules" or "Modules?" ?
Xeo
Xeo
00:06
@RMartinhoFernandes The plan for modules and problems currently associated with them. :)
I just hope it fits in the panel theme
Oh, what are the problems, btw?
Xeo
Xeo
Template instantiations mostly, IIRC
@RMartinhoFernandes mainly that none of my players now render the livestream :(
@sehe Yeah, having trouble here too.
VLC still running fine over here.
00:07
HI
@LucDanton did you close/reopen it or left it open?
integers or cares? That's a new pronounceable to me.
What is the plan for modules? What problems make them complicated to have? How will they be solved? #GoingNative
That okay?
Xeo
Xeo
Very much so!
Nice.
00:08
@sehe No, I've left it running since Boehm's talk IIRC. I got 4-5 buffering issues before that that made me just restart the stream (but not VLC).
Xeo
Xeo
Just get Silverlight. :>
I don't wanna reboot now.
Since it's been running fine for however many hours, no.
I have vim windows with code open.
@RMartinhoFernandes working again for me, I had reinstalled moonlight, perhaps it locked a resource, I just restarted my X session
00:10
Ugh. Ok, I'll try logging out.
@RMartinhoFernandes mksession! ~/tmp.vim, restart, gvim +'source ~/tmp.vim' ?
Is the guy with the eye-patch STL?
@sehe I know. I was trying to rationalize my reluctance in rebooting somehow.
@sehe Yes.
Would you call that an eyepatch? It's built into his glasses, I think.
Ah, it's back!
@Maxpm It's a modern eyepatch.
@Maxpm well, with the camera only glancing or doing a wide view...
@RMartinhoFernandes restarted much or just a temporary hitch?
00:13
@sehe I logged out and back in.
I don't understand the question. What about .NET devs?
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe It's in his glasses.
@Maxpm Their opinion on MS's shift to C++
@Xeo erm... You'd think he'd notice it himself :)
I didn't know MS was shifting to C++.
I thought they were putting a lot of resources into .NET, actually.
(sry couldn't resist; hope it is not some recent trauma)
@Maxpm +1
00:15
aye - VLC perfect here, too
@Maxpm That's the way the guy asked the question, not necessarily the official position.
For this audience, they are shifting, but the audience is prone to forget that they are not MS main audience
Is GoingNative only sound?
@Pubby I am getting video and sound.
@Pubby Sound conference? It is live stock, if you will
00:15
@Xeo Yeah, that big shift that will translate in a new .NET release that packs lots of cool goodies, and a C++ release with... range-based for loops.
I just see a big black screen
@Pubby Toggle the power switch of your monitor
Ooh, asking about modules.
modules!
Not @Xeo's question though. :(
00:16
:D
@Pubby or remove black patch from spectacles
@sehe :(
I'm using GNOME MPlayer if that matters
@Pubby not to me. Any chance of trying vlc?
If modules only remove the need for us to manually do #include guards, I will be happy.
00:17
I don't think I like VLC but I will try it
Most IDEs can handle that for us, but it really is silly.
Xeo
Xeo
raises hand
Actually, is there any reason for image? I don't want to install 52MB just for vlc
What accent is that (Herb's)? "Haw menny people have enjahjed that"
00:19
Joke's on him, I define out of line but it's all templates anyway.
@Pubby Don't :)
Zero-length bitfields are weird.
"from the interwebs" (quoting Bush)
Who was Charles referring to?
Xeo
Xeo
Bartosz?
00:21
@RMartinhoFernandes They're short, mainly
I'm not afraid of templates. I'm afraid of GCC's template errors.
Xeo
Xeo
If GCC was written in C++... :>
"Most people aren't using it"? Definitely not related !
@Xeo There is a project on that going on
That's not Andrei D:
00:22
Love Bjarne's mild rebuttal
when i set x='g' is this setting x to the letter g or the ascii value of g? (in c)
"but that doesn't mean there isn't a couple of million [users] that do" - LOL espec with the slight inclination in pitch at 'couple'
@LearningC depends on the type of x and your definition of the value
@sehe wow really? So I have to watch out for my declaration and the single quotes?
@LearningC no. and yes. It is both, if you will, char is integral type in C. There is no spoon difference
@LearningC Yes, most often in programming, you'd want to watch what you write: the syntax and the semantics
Xeo
Xeo
Live scheduling
00:25
if I set int x; x='9'; what is the value of x?
lol Andrei pipes g++ to head.
@LearningC x == (int) ('0' + 9);
heh, dude is standing in front of the camera
@sehe that just confused me more
@LearningC it depends on your computer, but it's equal to 9 and 9 more than 0. It's usually in the sixties somewhere I think
00:27
163
Q: The Definitive C Book Guide and List

lillqTo follow the example of The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List for C Books here is a wiki post for organization. A tag search for "C" and "Books" returns no complete book list results as of writing this question. That search is here. This post is to providing QUALITY books and an approximate ...

It's probably 57. But that's not important. What's important is that '9' != 9.
Hopefully the plan is to let Boost figure out the interesting parts, then steal them.
@RMartinhoFernandes +1
when's going native over? :)
@renatofernandes day after tomorrow. Or Tomorrow depending on how you measure
00:28
awww :(
@renatofernandes why's that (missing the sex jokes?)
alrite so you guys will be close till then?
is "9" == 9 true?
@LearningC no not at all
No guarantees. Usually it isn't.
00:28
@LearningC Troll?
@renatofernandes :D
> What's important is that '9' != 9. (2 minutes ago)
@LearningC first of all "9" is a string But even '9' is almost never == 9.
LOL ill get back to guys when its done then :P
@sehe not trolling serious question.
00:29
@renatofernandes the chatroom is only as closed as the internet ever is
isn't '9' the ascii value?
@LearningC too many serious questions. Too difficult to tell if troll.
@LearningC yes. The ascii value of '9' is not 9 though, it's fifty something
@LearningC define ascii value? See chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/2530111#2530111 (there is no spoon...)
@sehe what is spoon
00:30
@LearningC it is your mind
@sehe I ment decimal value
@LearningC No
@LearningC You meant ordinal value (or integer representation).
@sehe the tens repesentation
@LearningC Sometimes. But it could be the EBCDIC value.
@LearningC hint: You shouldn't need to know the value of '9'. If you think you do, you're wrong.
00:32
Good ole EBCDIC.
Xeo
Xeo
VB bashing. :>
so which of this will return true? '9'==9 or "9"==9?
"Next question." lol
@LearningC neither, on any computer I ever heard of. The second won't compile
@LearningC The second one doesn't even compile.
00:32
@RMartinhoFernandes At least 10 seconds delay for me :)
@MooingDuck idont comprehend?
@renatofernandes the chatroom isn't closed. We just said so since nobody is paying attention
Lol VB
@HerbSutter No you can't push that onto the queue. Push it onto the stack, or enqueue it :)
but i thought i couldnt ask question, since you guys are watching tht lol
00:34
@renatofernandes it's the internet, we can't stop you :D
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe FIFO
Oh, you're talking about terminology
Random question: What do you guys think to be the worst programming language in history? :D
@Xeo I looove terminology. So meta
@Hoxieboy Malbolge. It was designed with that goal in mind, and it succeeds.
Mal what ._.
00:35
@Hoxieboy intercal
LOL thts true, but then i'll feel bad for distrubing you guys,
or i'll probs not get an answer aha
I think basic is up there as well :3
No, it's not.
Not even close.
@Hoxieboy "Malbolge was so difficult to understand when it arrived that it took two years for the first Malbolge program to appear."
up there as in one of the worst
00:36
@MooingDuck And it wasn't an Hello world.
are you kidding @Mooing XD
@Hoxieboy Not even close.
Malbolge is a public domain esoteric programming language invented by Ben Olmstead in 1998, named after the eighth circle of hell in Dante's Inferno, the Malebolge. The peculiarity of Malbolge is that it was designed to be the most difficult and esoteric programming language. However, several of the tricks used to make understanding it difficult can be simplified away. Programming in Malbolge Malbolge was so difficult to understand when it arrived that it took two years for the first Malbolge program to appear. The program was not even written by a human being: it was generated by a b...
@Germans: is that 'Kohle Englisch'? We ridicule our politicians when they speak english with that kind of accent
well, you always have brainfuck :D
00:37
@Hoxieboy Malbolge was designed to be the worst language ever. That was the main goal.
INTERCAL, a programming language parody, is an esoteric programming language that was created by Don Woods and James M. Lyon, two Princeton University students, in 1972. It satirizes aspects of the various programming languages at the time, as well as the proliferation of proposed language constructs and notations in the 1960s. Consequently, the humor may appear rather dated to modern readers brought up with C or Java. According to the original manual by the authors, There are two currently maintained versions of INTERCAL: C-INTERCAL, formerly maintained by Eric S. Raymond, and CLC-INTE...
@RMartinhoFernandes Intercal was designed to be silly, I thikn Malbolge was derived partially from Intercal
@MooingDuck Not quite.
Malbolge is quite different.
I heard of languages like that, designed to be non OOP friendly, where the goal is achieved without literally striving for it
@RMartinhoFernandes I meant in concept
For starters, all code is self-modifying.
00:38
@RMartinhoFernandes Malbolge: Blame Log, Legal Mob, Bog-em All!
bog?
can somewone help me undertand this hint my prof fave me, "You should free the memory in the main function as you have written. The problem is that your iappend is not creating a new list. It is creating part of a new list and using part of an old list. Then in main when you free stuff, you are trying to free the same space more than once (which is a problem)." ? :D
@Hoxieboy so they get bogged down?
@sehe ah
@renatofernandes your prof faves you, you're in luck
Googles Go began to smell bad. They needed garbage collection :)
00:40
Go is nice.
@sehe He's a nice guys i guess :P
@sehe nice reference
@renatofernandes I'd have to see a link to the code to be sure
google WAS coded with python in mind, doesn't it self collect?
Xeo
Xeo
I like Bjarne's silent Java bashing.
00:41
Java, good times
._.
Not so silent now.
It doesn't sound like bashing. It sounds like simple criticism.
//     builds a new list with the elements
//     of il1 followed by the elements of il2
ilist iappend(ilist il1, ilist il2){
ilist acc = iempty();
while(!iempty_huh(il1)){
    acc = icons (ifirst(il1), acc);
    il1 = irest(il1);
    }

while (!iempty_huh(acc)){
il2 = icons(ifirst(acc), il2);
acc = irest(acc);
}
idelete(il1);
idelete(acc);
return il2;


}
Will people stop saying "putter"?
00:43
Herb too D:
@RMartinhoFernandes anyone with his [Bjarne] hand mannerisms/body language will always appear polite, even when crushing something verbally
I've created some sort of horrible C++/Java... THING
@sehe I don't think he took much from Java.
@RMartinhoFernandes I know. Removing
00:45
Would it be better to have some horrible python/java THING?
Why do you want horrible things?
horrible as in an abomination with 3 legs and no eyes.
but, still works
What did Herb (jokingly) call his thing? Litter collection? Leak collection? Leak detection?
I missed that.
garbage collection?
00:46
Eh nevermind. I think I misheard and he simply mentioned leak detection.
@LucDanton I don't know. gc_alloc? Basically, he wanted it to be accurate!
I think he was jabbing at the fact that Hans GC leaks because it's conservative.
Before that.
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton No, he actually said litter collection the first time. And it was Bjarne IIRC
@Xeo Thanks.
Xeo
Xeo
00:48
You don't really generate garbage in C++, only some litter. :)
Wait, what question was that?
I liked Herb's example with memory shared across threads.
shared puttr
lol @ STL
> People use far too many pointers.
Xeo
Xeo
He only likes that because he implemented it xD
00:50
@Xeo Yeah, he's biased by the fun he had.
@RMartinhoFernandes interesting. Link/title?
If he's talking about what I think he is, it was Herb.
omg I'm getting flamed already.
Xeo
Xeo
STL loves promoting VC
it segways into CPU/GPU architecture? Woah. segway got verbed?
00:51
Gimme a sec. It's in this chat's transcript somewhere...
@sehe No.
@LucDanton Aha. It follows on/through
Yes, because the name 'Segway' was picked on purpose.
@LucDanton Nah, i was paraphrasing the meaning of segue from what little Italian that inhabits my memory
I forgot what the corresponding Latin for that is :( The perfect form should be sequitur though.
Err unless it's the other form.
00:55
that passage reminds me of the other C9 cast with SMeyers,HSutters andAAlex-u (we disagree. We agree to disagree...)
Uh is that burger<->cow thing a reference to a previous talk?
thanks
my question got closed..
got -2 rep and was flamed by everyone

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