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7:00 AM
Sounds vaguely Metalocalypse.
 
also, most of C++ problems are from C, so they are not because of C++
@ScottW for all of tens years? it's sorta strange
 
I dreamed that I was trying to explain this movie to my mother.
 
@StackedCrooked Maybe you should get checked up.
 
What is there to check? Or to find?
 
Alright, DF time!
Uh, a world may only have at most one fortress active?
Oh, I didn't remember that. Guess I'm regenning.
Hah, I cranked the sliders for history, number of sites, beasts and savagery. Challenge time!
 
7:15 AM
There is no winning in Dorf Fort. Just losing more slowly.
 
7:27 AM
@LucDanton Too much history may take forever to gen.
 
It's okay, I have things to read and music to listen to. Ideal after a meal.
Or do you mean the 'whoops, algorithm complexity!' kind of 'forever'?
 
Growth is not linear, of that I'm sure.
 
Ah. Do you know how the history stage of generation is supposed to end? Reach year 250 or something?
 
That's the default.
Max is 1050 I think.
 
Ah well, I'm at 175. That's acceptable.
 
7:30 AM
The only difference is that younger worlds have more beasts.
A 1050-year old world will have lots of civilization, and few beasts left.
 
Makes sense.
 
Or in pathological cases, little civilization and plenty of beasts (if the beasts won!)
But those are rare if you don't tweak world gen by hand.
 
Are there pragmatical effects to having lots of civilizations? I cranked up the slider to have a 'colourful' history, but didn't look much beyond that. Should I expect lots of kobolds, goblins and merchants?
 
@ScottW The interface only allows for 1050, but you can edit the world gen parameters by hand. I suppose the limit there is 2^32-1 or similar.
Ah. That's tweakable as well.
Forgotten beasts don't reproduce (they're supposed to be unique beasts from the dawn of time). But other creatures do.
 
Forgotten beasts don't reproduce. They just make OkCupid accounts.
 
7:35 AM
Both, yeah.
@AnthonyReflected I suppose that's a dating site.
 
@ScottW Well, when I met my first fire-spewing, one-eyed kite the 'complexity' was figuring out where to shoot it from (which was from the river, what with the fireballs).
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You'd suppose correctly, heh.
 
@LucDanton You know what's fun? Fighting forgotten beasts in adventurer mode.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't even want to shut up shut up shut up.
 
And judging by the fact that the female users only rate 20% of the male users as "average" or better, that's where the "beasts" truly are.
DF is fun, even though I play on a significantly easier difficulty metric. I don't find that I'm cheating anyone but myself, though
 
7:41 AM
@LucDanton Most kobolds civs die of starvation during the first years, as they can't steal enough to eat (it's a bug Toady mentioned). I suppose more developed civs will provide better trade opportunities (more items, or more variety).
 
Neat. If my fortress survives I guess I can start waging war on everybody else. (Not that's the a high chance of surviving.)
 
hi
 
@LucDanton Note that right now waging war means defending their attacks. You'll only be able to move your armies across the map when Toady gets to implement that (it's on the horizon).
 
9
A: What does mathematics have to do with programming?

DeadMGThey're not that closely related. For programming, it is important to know about mathematics- especially those branches pertaining to, for example, algorithm performance, but the simple fact is that there is no branch of mathematics that will tell you that Singletons are a horrifically bad idea, ...

what do you guys think?
 
Oh, I'm not expecting an army arc before the act :)
@DeadMG I think you answered a troll bait with another troll bait.
 
7:46 AM
lol
 
hell, I have to grind rep on that site, too?
What a shame.
 
Oh noes! I used my last downvote on PSE!
Now I need to answer something to recharge.
 
Is that something specific to PSE? I don't remember that ever being an issue on SO. But perhaps I don't downvote enough.
 
@LucDanton You need 125 rep for it.
I'm now at 124.
@ScottW He can always use his bank for that.
 
yeah, just hire an accountant, that's what they're for
 
7:57 AM
Unrelated story my aunt told me that happened at the bank she used to work at. A client once came over and asked to withdraw all his money. He was a big client, the kind that had to come back the next day because they needed to actually bring money from elsewhere for that withdrawal. So the next day the client came and was given a room to count the money if he wanted. That's what he did. Then, at the end of the day he came out and said "You can put it back. Now I know you're trustworthy."
 
lol
 
> the kind that had to come back the next day because they needed to actually bring money from elsewhere for that withdrawal
I guess I'm not 'that kind of client' but I don't understand what that means.
 
They didn't have enough cash in the safe to satisfy the withdrawal.
 
it means he wanted to withdraw so much money, the bank didn't have enough on hand
 
Ah, I see.
I thought 'they' was a singular they. Boggled my mind why someone would need to bring money to withdraw their own.
 
8:00 AM
lol
I am!
 
What's it called by the way? A bank branch?
 
yes
 
Does that work for e.g. retail chains?
 
In a technical sense, yes, if it's a franchise.
 
Like "the local Screwdrivers'R'Us branch"?
 
8:03 AM
Although that normally sounds a bit more awkward when speaking of a business. I think one would rather just say "location" or "office" or "store."
 
@ScottW Oh right, "chain X has 318 stores across the world".
 
As far as I know, "branch" is pretty much reserved for banks
 
Here's the distinction, fairly well explained.
Branch offices are owned and operated by the original brand, and franchise offices are owned and operated by proprietors.
 
oh yes, branch of government
 
@AnthonyReflected I never noticed the use of 'location' for that. Seems handy.
 
8:05 AM
but I've never heard branch of business being used for any business except bank
 
@ScottW And trees, don't forget trees.
 
I am the vine; ye are the branches.
 
cpx
Note to self: Buy a back-up drive.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: It feals Wierd to implement yet another Thread class now [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
especially when you spelled "Weird" wrong
 
8:11 AM
Does that have a story?
@DeadMG I think "Wierd" is a common weird spelling of "weird".
Like "incorrekt" is an incorrect spelling of "incorrect".
 
lol
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: It feels weird to implement yet another Thread class now [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
Well, it can't be said to contain bacteria.
 
Yay! Marble and magnetite!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Bah.
 
8:15 AM
well I just start the thread in the constructor. No run() method or anything like that. Because I started thinking about it, and AFAICS the only need that a thread has for Doing Things with the C++ wrapper object is to propagate failure info at the end.
 
Well, it's been fun, but seeing as I'm still awake and only know of one thing that'll put me to sleep
It's time to start learning Perl again
 
lol
Perl can lull you to sleep without causing nightmares?
 
reading Pearl != writing Pearl
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It tends to have that effect on m-- oh. Well. I don't know about that, sir.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's the kind of things that when it happens to you makes you all giddy but when it happens to others somehow it feels cheap. As if you forced embark location generation to deal you a good hand (which you do, to an extent, but also which everyone does).
 
8:18 AM
@LucDanton I did look for flux, but I can never be sure I'll have iron from just "shallow metals". It could be some other metal, like copper. But I was lucky :P
 
So that was a 'Bah' laced with irony and dripping with jealousy.
 
Now if I only I had coal... :)
Burning trees it is.
 
Do eet. Otherwise a beast will.
 
The problem is that steel production consumes a large amount of logs.
 
Remember, rock pots!
 
8:19 AM
You need six logs for two bars of steel.
 
0
Q: Unmovable files in VS2010 project

DeadMGI've got a Visual Studio 2010 C++ project. Previously everything was working fine but now when I create new files, they have strange little arrows in the corners. I've checked and they are not links, the files are at the hard location referenced. I've been through the project file and settings an...

Visual Studio makes DeadMG cry
 
Oh right, steel. Not iron like I recently had.
 
Steel is the best (other than spoiler stuffs).
@DeadMG Screenshot, no?
 
done
 
Sometimes I feel like the process to pick embark site is a bit painful, considering everything you could want. For instance I had a dorf go suicidal because he needed bricks, and I had no clay. Oh well.
Or maybe it's the trading process that is painful.
 
8:24 AM
@LucDanton You can't get everything in the same site. Well, you can, but you need to severely tweak the world gen parameters, or flat out cheat.
 
@DeadMG It sounds like Visual Studio thinks those files are automatically generated
 
I went through the Add New Item menu like all the other times
and there is nothing different about these files compared to the other files in any of the project or solution files I've looked in
 
Restart VS?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What about sites that straddle biomes? I tend to like those.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Now two more files are unmovable :(
 
8:26 AM
Oops.
 
I have just realized that using the old Dos VGA graphics for game programming will automatically make my game cross-platform, because DosBox runs on most platforms. Is this a good idea? Or just outright foolishness?
 
@IntermediateHacker Pretty foolish. You could have just used OpenGL instead
 
@LucDanton Two different biomes? Those are the easiest to get more things you want.
Ideally you'd have: volcano + aquifer + non-aquifer biome + flux + iron ore + clay + sand + whatever special material you want to build your megaprojects out of, be it marble, gold, or orthoclase (or not needed, if you want to use obsidian).
 
@DeadMG yeah, but its difficult to do 2D in OpenGL.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What's an aquifer good for? (Or 'what's an aqui for?')
 
8:28 AM
@IntermediateHacker It is?
@LucDanton lol. Limitless water to throw at magma and make obsidian.
 
I thought rivers could do that.
 
But aquifers don't freeze in winter :P
 
@RMartinhoFernandes If only we had a super hot fluid to somehow thaw the ice. Wait, does that work?
 
@LucDanton Oh stupid me. It does work. I once built a river of lava under my river just for that purpose!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Your poor, poor framerate.
 
8:31 AM
@LucDanton Only for the whole day it took me to pump the magma up. Then, once it was full, I turned it off and it went smooth.
 
Is there a GCC frontend for MS-DOS ?
 
Oh neat, that means the game computes transitions but once in a steady state it's okay right?
 
@LucDanton I think the game already does temperature checking everywhere (maybe optimized to avoid recomputing stuff), whether you have magma or not. So the magma itself won't cost performance.
 
Ah, it used to be that in some cases it was desirable to turn off temperature computations to have a smoother experience.
 
Oh noes the chat has gone bonkers
again
 
8:42 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, I can stop world gen to e.g. keep at whatever history has been generated so far, can't I?
 
Yes.
Told you it was going to take forever.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I only just realised that asking for a lot of history means getting a lot of years.
Somehow 1-250 was a completion progression in my head.
"Great, lots of history packed in those 250 years this time!"
 
Oh dear. Asking the game to finish doesn't seem to have an effect. It just goes on to compute one more year.
 
@LucDanton It usually works for me (I don't like to start with a year that is a multiple of 10, so sometimes I stop at 238 or something like that.)
@ScottW lol
 
8:54 AM
Welp, not sure what to do.
FWIW the game only updates the window then it's done computing the current year.
(E.g. when I resize it.)
 
Press harder?
I really don't know.
 
lol
 
I am. Holding enter down while the game computes. Just in case.
 
by the way
what is it with these fucking morons?
some guy on Programmers advocating banning implementation inheritance because it can be mis-used
well, surprise, buddy, everything can be mis-used in one way or another.
 
9:09 AM
@Luchow do you make pots?
 
No idea, a friend that just discovered the game through me pointed them out to me. IIRC from the wiki it's a stonecraft. Job manager - add task and search for 'rock pot'?
Well, something made out of rock in the craftdwarf's workshop. Not a toy or instrument.
 
Ah, I was trying to use the masonry.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm not surprised. Now I'm wondering what practical things can be made from the craftdwarf's shop.
 
@DeadMG young zealotry
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Do you have a recommended size for the embark site? The default 4x4 seems a bit small.
I'm tempted to go 8x8 as I will be trying ranching/hunting.
 
9:21 AM
Now suddenly it all makes sense
I mean, seriously, shouldn't there be a Lounge<DF>? Or perhaps just Lounge<>?
 
@LucDanton Large embarks tend to make things go slow.
Noticeably.
 
Well, 'how large is a large embark' is part of my question.
 
No idea.
8x8 is a lot.
 
It's a virus. Or, it is the STI@home by an alian species far smarter than we are
(search for terrestrial life)
 
Oh, I never considered to make bone armour.
 
9:28 AM
Worthless.
Unless you want more bones.
 
A bit silly considering leather is not that far away.
 
cpx
I'd like to know software did we use to create that chart?
 
my code is trolling me =( when I add a virtual function, it hides template constructor
 
> And this 'dogma' of disallowing implementation inheritance is advocated by some respected persons. Some programming languages consider it such as plague as to not even allow it, period.
AARGH WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE THIS EVEN EXIST I DON'T EVEN
 
@DeadMG .... tapping foot?
 
9:37 AM
@sehe What?
 
> AARGH WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE THIS EVEN EXIST I DON'T EVEN ... what?
^^ doesn't parse
 
it's a meme thing
 
*tokenized but not parsed
 
usually used for inexpressible <insert idea/feeling/emotion here>
 
ok
 
9:40 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Right, the game warns even for 5x5.
 
morning all
 
@thecoshman hi. long time no spoke
 
Indeed, I have been off work the last week, seemingly off internet as well :P
had a week with my parents back 'home'
Did I miss much excitement in my absence?
 
nah
 
didn't expect so :P
my new get out line at work :P
 
9:59 AM
Could I get some upvotes here? stackoverflow.com/a/9462988/256138
 
FFFUUU~ it seems that it's a bug in VC++
 
@rubenvb asking for up votes just make me want to down vote :P
 
ideone.com/lgqfk Y VC++ CAN'T COMPILE IT?!!
 
@thecoshman oh that's evil. I gave a damn good answer IMHO.
 
@Abyx can't you choose what compiler to use with ideone?
 
10:02 AM
@rubenvb We can ask for upvotes ? :D this is awesome :)
 
@thecoshman wut?
 
@angryInsomniac It's the first time I tried, I am eagerly awaiting the results :P
 
@angryInsomniac: N.B. Asking for upvotes does not necessarily get you upvotes. :-P
 
@thecoshman no, only GCC 4.5 AFAIK (maybe something older for C++not11
 
@rubenvb :D Wish ya luck :)
 
10:03 AM
@Abyx see @rubenvb
 
@Insilico True .. but its preferable to getting downvoted coz you asked :)
 
@thecoshman ideone don't support VC++
 
They should add Clang+libc++
 
but I compiled this code with g++, clang and comeau =(
 
@Abyx what's the error?
 
10:05 AM
@rubenvb: "error C2664: 'GCObject::GCObject(const GCObject &)' : cannot convert parameter 1 from 'ListIter<T,B,link_member>' to 'const GCObject &'"
 
@rubenvb it can't see ctor
but it compiles if f() is not virtual
 
Friday is the release of the Beta of VS11, try that then. It might've been fixed :)
 
'might be related' the perfect get out for being wrong :P
 
@thecoshman dude, I'm not psychic, nor am I the robot.
 
@rubenvb I don't think so
 
10:08 AM
@Abyx it does mention the copy constructor in the error you posted
 
well.. yet another reason to switch to VC++11, it they'll fix it
 
@DeadMG most people like to forbid things that they themselves don't do
 
@rubenvb shame, would be nice to see two really smart robots talking to each other
 
that, the virtual, and the templated constructor make the link pretty strong. Anyways, I forgot my crystal ball at home today, so I'm gonna let it rest :)
 
@rubenvb only because it can't see templated ctor
 
10:09 AM
@Abyx: It works when I move f() into a base class
At least on VC++ 9 I think (15.00.30729.01)
template<class T, class B, int B::* link_member>
struct ListIter {};

struct GCObjectBase
{
	virtual void f() {}
};

struct GCObject : public GCObjectBase
{
    int m_link;

    template<class T>
	GCObject(ListIter<T, GCObject, &GCObject::m_link> ){}
};

int main()
{
    ListIter<int, GCObject, &GCObject::m_link> iter;
    new GCObject(iter);
}
 
@Insilico ಠ_ಠ
 
@Insilico thanks
 
@thecoshman: Honestly I don't know why that works
 
I would like to forbid sushi because I don't eat sushi (yet, at least). Like, sushi can be poisonous or maybe bacteria or such. And folks seeing others eat sushi might get unwell, just like passive smoking.
 
@CheersandhthAlf :O I hope you are just trolling bro
 
10:12 AM
@Insilico it works with VC++10 too
 
@thecoshman ideone.com/NcsdR
That is possibly the weirdest workaround I've been able to come up with for the weirdest compiler bug I've ever seen
Especially since I've been able to compile code that's even more esoteric than this without requiring workarounds
 
@Insilico You ain't seen nothing yet. I've seen @DeadMG post for more 'interesting' workarounds for MSVC bugs related to lambdas. Just search SO/this list
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Using /* now makes me changes z-level, like <>. Any idea why?
@RMartinhoFernandes FWIW Using the /-key on the keyboard as opposed to the one on the numpad doesn't exhibit the problem.
 
I came short on my google-fu as Google ignores '"/*"' outright.
 
10:26 AM
lol
 
My hunter is hardcore. Went for a hippo as his first catch, I didn't even had time to assign him a dog.
I keep mining lemonite, when I need non-economic stone :|
Or economic. I get confused.
 
10:45 AM
@LucDanton wait... are you saying / is not the same as / ?
 
@thecoshman Well it used to work fine, so there's something fishy going on.
 
Should I enable the Write-back cache for my SSD RAID system disks in a laptop?
 
A 10x10 outdoor buildings needs 81 ceiling tiles. This is going to be hard.
 
I was on about the comment you made regards to their being a differenc between forward slash keys
@rubenvb that is probably going to depend on a lot of things
though first, what laptop has RAID? I've yet to see a commercial laptop with more then one drive
 
@thecoshman Sony Vaio Z has two 64GB SSDs in RAID
in addition to that, the previous owner replaced the DVD drive with a 500 GB HDD
This thing is awesomeness³
 
10:52 AM
ello
HW question:
> Assume that x is a double variable that has been given a value. Write a statement that prints it out, guaranteed to have a decimal point, but without forcing scientific (also known as exponential or e-notation).
 
The intel Rapid Storage thingie says it increases performance by concentrating writes, but it might be risky if power goes down, but the laptop always has its battery in, so no problem there, right?
@Moshe and what's "HW question"? This isn't HardWare related...
 
homework
 
aaaah
informational information is informational
 
Kinda, except I need to insert something between these two stream operators:
cout << << x;
 
@Moshe yes, there's two options as far as I can see, both listed on the page I linked to.
 
11:01 AM
@rubenvb Ah, showpoint was it.
 
@Moshe oh, wow, didn't even see that one. You could also use fixed or setprecision I think.
Why on earth are people still using printf?
 
Heh
Next one:
> Assume that x is a double variable that has been given a value. Write a statement that prints it out with exactly three digits to the right of the decimal point no matter what how big or miniscule its value is.
 
@Moshe do your own homework ¬_¬
 
@Moshe dude, look at the same page, do your own homework
 
@thecoshman lol
ok ok ok
:-D
 
11:05 AM
but by all means ask questions, just don't ask us to solve your problems
 
Keas are invading my base camp.
 
If you free a pointer does it become available for allocation again? I mean, is it possible for malloc to return the same value of a pointer that was previously freed?
 
@StackedCrooked Yes.
 
At work we have some interprocess communication. Remote objects have an 'id' which is actually the pointer value. The server maintains a list of currently existing pointers. This should allow request handlers to check if a certain object still exists. But I guess the system is fundamentally broken then?
 
Well formally you should probably check the guarantees of the shared memory implementation. But in practice I'd expect the same to hold as for regular memory allocation. It'd be silly for the system to simply not work after running out of unique addresses.
 
11:15 AM
Indeed.
 
11:27 AM
@LucDanton There would be no point in releasing memory.
 
First 10x10 building almost done!
The amount of rock I extracted to build it is ridiculous.
 
@LucDanton what are you working on?
 
On the other hand, free limonite.
@thecoshman Dwarves living in the great outdoors with farming + ranching.
 
@LucDanton Guess what my miners just found!
 
@StackedCrooked what would be the point in freeing memory if it couldn't be subsequently reused?
 
11:28 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes Marble, sandwiched between two layers full of lava.
 
@LucDanton Coal.
 
is this the latest internet fad that I have missed?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh yeah, you had that already. Well I hope the coal is sandwiched between lava.
 
6
Q: Computationally efficient C++ - general reading

user1225822My job is mainly in high-performance 'scientific' computing. I've been doing that for ~15 years now, but only recently realized that my software wastes computational time. In short words: my ways of writing efficient C++ code no longer work. From time to time I see a piece of code, written by so...

why is TMP rediculous???
 
@thecoshman I guess, in a way. It's a not-new fad that has resurfaced :)
aka Dwarf Fortress
 
11:30 AM
meh, I don't like this new fad
 
I see... if I google that, am I signing away yet more of my time?
 
@TonyTheLion Er, because. What else?
 
@thecoshman no, only if you play it
 
@RMartinhoFernandes huh?
you mean it is redculous?
 
How many people here hate the Hungarian notation system ? (really , I want to know)
 
11:31 AM
but from the perspective that it's hard??
 
@angryInsomniac which one is that now?
 
@TonyTheLion No, I have no idea. I was joking.
 
@thecoshman prefix the return type to the methods name
 
@angryInsomniac oh, such as iGetInt()
 
11:34 AM
@thecoshman nope .. worse IntGetLength()
 
considering how many tools are available to help you be aware of the return type of functionX() I see no need for it
 
@thecoshman My company wants me to endorse Hungarian notation use for all programmers across the board ! :#
I'm trying to convince them otherwise ! Waste of time and effort
 
@angryInsomniac why do they want that?
 
@jalf Fucked if I know !
 
@jalf synergy!
 
11:37 AM
Perhaps you should ask them. It's a lot easier to shoot down their arguments if you know what those arguments are
3
 
plus they will probably here how stupid they sound when they try to reason it
 
@thecoshman If only reason was heard :P
 
Microsoft came up with it. Microsoft no longer uses it. So it's pretty hard to come up with a sane defense of the idea
 
I mean , we use eclipse and putting method headers is standard practice ! What more do you need to find the methods return type
 
well, just because the OP of an idea no longer like the idea, doesn't mean that idea is bad
 
11:40 AM
@thecoshman They were the only ones who thought it was useful to begin with.
 
@DeadMG well, yes in this case the idea is a bad idea, but my point still stands
 
@thecoshman but it's a pretty good indicator that there's probably something wrong with the idea
 
@thecoshman The person who came up with it obviously believed in it at some point in time , now they don't ... and changing ones belief is a big deal !
 
@angryInsomniac that it may be, as jalf said, it does throw into question the idea, but dose not mean it is a bad idea. The OP of an idea might decided they like to do it another way. If Linus decided that for what ever reason he no longer thinks linux is what it should be, that would not mean that linux is a bad idea
 
@thecoshman Probably because, as far as I can tell, Linus is a moron
 
11:53 AM
you either trolling me, or idiots
 
Hmm , no it doesn't just as you changing your mind about this issue in the next statement wouldn't mean your initial proposition was flawed !
But you will agree with me that it will take *a lot* for you to change your opinion so drastically
which indicates something about your initial idea
 
no, take this very issue. if I where to agree with you, that would be a 'big change' in my view point. but some one else might still agree with the view point I originally had. The fact I changed my opinion on an idea cannot be used as an argument against said idea
 
@thecoshman It indicates that an argument exists. It doesn't indicate what that was or how significant it is or if it's even valid.
 
@DeadMG well, the reason behind why I change my opinion might be a valid argument against the idea. Another way of saying this, is that popular opinion dose not prove the validity of an argument, but of course, it usually is a strong indicator
 
@thecoshman Yes it can. You, as the person who originally proposed the idea, can typically be expected to (1) understand the subject, and (2) be aware of the advantages of your idea. If you abandon the idea, it must be because you were made aware of disadvantages that outweighed the advantages. So for others to stick with the idea, it must be true that either they know something that you don't, or you know something that they don't.
 
11:59 AM
popular opinion is worth precisely jack shit, as exemplified by things like Java
 

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