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3:01 PM
okay, got to go now. meet some relatives. bye all. :)
 
bye
 
@IntermediateHacker well, actually, in French, it's spelt rendez-vous
but that is of course not English
ok, must read all chat messages before repeating stated facts
 
Machete is on cable - love these B movies (esp the pseudo ones 8^)
 
I'm the local "computer expert", so I just got this question: "how does iTunes work?"
-_-
That's like asking: "how to program?"
 
3:20 PM
@daknøk Pehaps she meant to ask how to use iTunes.
 
@StackedCrooked +1 for "she". How do you know?
@StackedCrooked actually, she meant to ask where to download and how to install iTunes.
 
I would expect that installing and downloading is the easy part since that's the same for any program.
 
@ScottW good afternoon.
1 minute remaining till VS finishes.
 
@daknøk you're the worst local computer expert ever. Someone asks about iTunes and you start explaining how XCode works. Sheesh.
 
@rubenvb ?
 
3:34 PM
@ScottW I like it so far - so over-the-top it's hilarious
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Did you have issue with stone pots? Unlike what the wiki says, I'm not so sure they can hold liquids. Haven't tried glazing.
 
@rubenvb Yeah! He should start with transistors.
 
I gotta go
see ya
 
@ScottW I think I've seen that Danny Trejo character before (most likely in a Tarantino or Rodriguez flick), but that's it - don't know the background much...
@ScottW - ahh... ...that's it! Grindhouse/DeathProof are also fantastic - hilarious scene in Machete when three guys surround him and try to convince him to give up - rofl
ex-Fedarales - hahaha
Steven Seagal is also better as a bad-guy
haven't checked out Planet Terror yet - will look into that one later
 
hey
 
3:47 PM
@Fanael thx. quite obvious, I should have remembered :)
 
Cuban?... ...nah, Mexican - rofl - Cheech Marin
 
webcache.googleusercontent.com/… < Weird, this post seems to have disappeared
I wonder if that means it's not being released on Feb 29
 
4:00 PM
how coul dhe
 
Sometimes well-intended actions do more harm than good. Let that be a lesson for everyone.
 
I wish that when I slept, I woke up more rested than when I went to bed
 
@ScottW Yeah, but it applies in general :)
The harsh reality might be that you're just not fit to be the unsung hero.
 
@DeadMG when I'm like that, doing some exercise usually helps...
 
4:27 PM
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ home time
 
As seen on evain.net/blog/articles/2012/02/27/… (Visual Studio, you're doing it wrong)
 
Argh. When the Mercurial source control picked up files it wasn't supposed to, I tried to revert. It deleted the most recent files from disk! Jeez.
 
Anyone know where I can find a listing of all x64 assembly instructions, like a cheat sheet?
 
@CheersandhthAlf Jeez. Software that does what you ask it, instead of what you mean. Who'd have thunk
@CheersandhthAlf it stinks when that happens. Happens to me too. More backups and sourcecontrol :)
 
4:45 PM
The problem is that it's far from clear what one is asking. For that matter, it's very unclear how to ask. And it doesn't even handle Unicode filenames.
 
Using a Beta for production? WTF?
Develop even faster, before the beta expires!
 
real men use beta
 
@bamboon does Arch Linux count as Beta?
 
user784668
@rubenvb lol y u use arch?
 
@rubenvb hmm nope
 
user784668
4:54 PM
@bamboon Does Arch Linux with [staging] repo enabled count as beta?
 
Ah, so "revert" is "update".
 
@Fanael haha what do I know
 
Xeo
Somebody mind educating me what this guy means with "imperative style" in my answer?
 
I suspect he may want laziness, even though that's certainly not what imperative/functional is about.
(I have no idea if the library he mentions in the question is lazy or not though.)
 
Hey! Are any of you familiar with Markov Chains/n-grams? I have a question that no one has answered, but given one tip on my code. It's Python, but it's not really about the language, but more about what it does.
 
Xeo
5:05 PM
@LucDanton Hm, maybe I should point out that the Boost.Range adaptor views are lazy...
 
I'd ask if he even wants laziness first.
 
5:16 PM
First draft of the umpteent'h thread class for Windows:
It works but I feel that there is some non-obvious wrongness... Don't know what.
 
@Fanael Arch is Linux how it should be
 
can somebody explain me why everybody hates gnome 3
 
user784668
@bamboon Install it, try to use it, and you'll know why.
 
@Fanael that would be very influenced by the distro IMHO.
 
user784668
@rubenvb Are there any distros on which Gnome 3 doesn't suck?
 
5:27 PM
@Fanael I do every day
I just love that tab window view when you move your mouse in the corner
 
How many screens are you using?
 
user784668
Can somebody explain me why so many people hate KDE 4?
 
@LucDanton 2
 
@Fanael On Arch it might suck the least. As it keeps all defaults by default.
On Ubuntu it sucks the most, cause you have to fight Unity
 
@bamboon Can't get it work right with 3, but that's using Eyefinity, i.e. AMD.
 
5:30 PM
@LucDanton what do you mean by get it to work right?
 
user784668
@rubenvb It sucked the big one last time I tried to use it. And I tried on Arch.
 
@bamboon By default the Shell prefers the left-most screen. If I follow the procedure to put in in the screen of my choice (i.e. middle), then bad things happen.
 
@Fanael I remember it being introduced to [Core] without theme support (but that was like a year ago).
 
@LucDanton ah ok, it works here with me putting it on the right one
which os are you using?
 
user784668
lol
 
user784668
5:35 PM
I just turned KWin into tiling window manager.
 
sbi
2
A: C++ Template Classes, Duplicate Names?

sbiI think partial specialization would do the trick: namespace MyNamespace { template<class TRet, class TArg0> class FunctionObject { typedef typename TRet ReturnType; typedef typename TArg0 FirstArgumentType; virtual ReturnType const operator()(FirstArgumentType co...

Six Five more upvotes to 60k.
And easy rep for someone writing a better answer using var args macros.
 
user784668
@sbi Three.
 
@sbi You could add a default argument in the primary template declaration.
That's how variadic templates used to be emulated in C++03 (with heavy preprocessing help though).
 
sbi
@LucDanton Damn, of course! Where was I?
 
@sbi Three now.
 
sbi
5:44 PM
@Fanael Two One!
 
user784668
@sbi One.
 
@sbi And in C++11 there's no need for macros here: same technique, except the primary template is variadic :)
 
yay, my age changed on my profile.
@sbi I'll upvote some other random answer of yours.
 
@IntermediateHacker were you like 92 before? i mean was that you?
 
user784668
@IntermediateHacker And meta police will cancel the upvotes.
 
5:46 PM
@sbi 60K now!
 
sbi
@LucDanton That's what I meant. I guess I was too excited. :(
 
@CheersandhthAlf ??
 
someone else then. i just remember a discussion about who's oldest in the lounge
 
Crap, vbox just crashed
basterdz
 
@sbi It's a policy of mine to never get excited with the prospect of macros.
 
sbi
5:48 PM
@IntermediateHacker Yay!
 
> I've lost interest in the rep game long before I reached 10% the rep he has. ~ sbi
@sbi you hypocrite. :D
 
sbi
@IntermediateHacker What do you mean? I still submit to my OCD, which makes me like nice, round decimal numbers. :)
 
user784668
@sbi OCD? Obsessive–compulsive disorder?
 
damn, @sbi's rep. is giving me an inferiority complex. :'(
 
I stopped caring about rep since I reached 7000
That's around the time I started coming here
KDE is making VBox crash
 
user784668
5:54 PM
@rubenvb I never cared about rep. Beat that.
 
@Fanael Liar. On the first post you made, you hated the fact that you couldn't post URLs
then you hated that you couldn't edit post
 
Why does everyone answer all those easy questions so quickly, before I get a chance? :(
 
Hey guys. Sorry if my question offtopic a bit.. I'm php dev. Wanna start to learn second language. But really a bit confused, which is popular and worst to waste time? Java/C++/C#? maybe someone can help me..
 
I wonder if I can update the Intel GPU driver with official Intel drivers on a hybrid GPU system
 
user784668
@rubenvb Sorry? I had no problems posting a URL in my first post IIRC.
 
sbi
5:58 PM
@IntermediateHacker After more than a decade of programming almost exclusively in C++ for a living, I arrived at SO ~2.6 years ago. I had probably 10 times your time to gain experience in C++ and had almost 3.5 times as long as you have to amass rep at SO — but I have not even 3.5 times as much rep as you. So what are you feeling inferior about?
 
@Fanael hmmm, it might have been more than 2 that was forbidden
 
user784668
@rubenvb Yup.
 
@Fanael Comments then. you'd need 50 rep. Bet you cared about rep then.
 
@IntermediateHacker answer them well
 
user784668
@rubenvb What do you mean? I think everyone can edit their own posts, and 2k+ users can edit other people posts.
 
6:00 PM
well shit. You cared about your miserable rep count at one point
 
sbi
@rubenvb To me the game lost appeal considerably when I had past 10k. There wasn't anything more to gain by having more rep back then. When they kept introducing more privileges to gain above 10k, I already had the required rep. And when I hit this chat here, SO lost even the minimal social function (arguing with geeks) it had. :)
 
I still care about my rep, I keep count to 10kish
 
sbi
@ScottW I missed a zero. :-{
 
@sbi :) congrats :)
 
user784668
@rubenvb Didn't feel the need then.
 
sbi
6:02 PM
@Fanael It's so easy to beat this lie that I wouldn't even bother demonstrating. :)
 
great, furmark keeps crashing too
 
Does Intel have a free forever version of thier C++ compiler for me to toy with?
 
@sbi @ScottW you know, I'm starting to feel a bit cocky now. :D
 
or are they the biggest pay-to-use compiler?
 
user784668
What I do care about however, is my accept rate. I mean, now all these people who think that everybody should have accept rate of >90% will tick me off because of it. That's funny.
 
6:05 PM
@MooingDuck For Linux
 
user784668
@MooingDuck Linux version is free IIRC.
 
for personal use at least
 
@rubenvb erm, I meant for windows. I saw that the linux stuff was all free :/
 
@MooingDuck then, no.
 
user784668
@sbi Why do you think I'm lying? I do not recall myself caring about my rep.
 
6:06 PM
@Fanael I know I have a question or two with no accepted answer. (Actually, one has no answers at all :/)
 
user784668
@MooingDuck You still have 100% accept rate.
 
sbi
@ScottW I admit to having an eye on achieving the Fanatic bade, and I was happy when I finally got the golden C++ badge (because I felt I deserved that :)). Other than that, getting a badge is pretty much like getting a piece of chocolate between Christmas and Eastern: Nice to have, but nothing I long for.
 
how can it be that my driver version is newer than anything I can find on the net?
 
@Fanael I could have sworn there was another question I had with no accepted answer. Maybe I eventually gave in and accepted one as close enough.
 
sbi
@rubenvb You wrote the thing yourself and forgot to publish the latest version?
 
6:09 PM
@sbi I don't think I wrote an Intel Graphics driver...
It says NVidia, but that number is Intel's GPU driver version
 
sbi
@rubenvb Note that you didn't ask "Why is it...?", but "How can it be...?" I answered exactly that.
 
@sbi teh ape is misses the pointe
 
@rubenvb deliberately
 
@MooingDuck yah no shit
 
sbi
6:14 PM
@rubenvb Hey, you are in a C++ chat room at a site for programmers!
What did you expect to find here if not users that are anally obsessed with semantic details?!
 
@TonyTheLion nobody mentioned your passphrase yet! You can't be here! (My universe is unwinding!)
 
@sbi It's not my first time here ;-) I never expect anything from here. That keeps my hopes up and makes it so that you often surprise me
 
@MooingDuck oh, just say it, I want to be here :P
 
@TonyTheLion I'm melting! I'm melting....
 
oh what
sex
I said it, I can be here now
thanks for listening :P
 
Xeo
6:18 PM
@TonyTheLion That's a paradoxon
 
Ell
why oh why is vb.net's escape character " ?
 
because vb.net sucks dick
 
Ell
anyway, I have pizza to eat! ta ta
 
sbi
@Fanael There is certain benefits you will gain with getting more rep. Have you ever tried to fix a one-char typo in someone else's question? Have you never thought "this question has the wrong tag" before you had 0.5k rep? Have you never thought "this question should be close, deleted, and the poster banned from the Internet", but are too meek to cast a even close vote? Sorry, either you are way too dispassionate about this place, or you're lying, possibly to yourself.
 
@sbi I have 3k of rep, it's enough to edit and vote to close/reopen. I don't want to get more rep.
 
sbi
6:22 PM
@rubenvb Well, but not expecting something can be an expectation too, of some sorts. You didn't expect us to take your question literally, and we failed to meet that.
 
@Abyx I want to see deleted questions
 
user784668
@sbi Done all of these. For the first two, low-rep person can edit and wait for it to be accepted, for the third they can flag (or we, I still don't have 2k for editing, let alone 3k for closing).
 
sbi
@Abyx This I can relate to. I once deliberately spend some time on meta in order to be able to see the up/downvote ration of posts, but I don't feel like I need even 10k there.
 
user784668
@ScottW You can work this around. <!-- . -->
 
sbi
@Fanael Then it's indeed that you're too dispassionate. Apparently you haven't even tried to fix a one-char typo.
@Fanael I'd outright vote against such a change.
Don't let anyone's hate, negativity, ignorance or drama stop you from being the asshole you strive to be
(That's not directed at anyone particular, BTW. It just happens to fit my mood.)
 
user784668
6:27 PM
@sbi I have to admit that you might be right, I don't care much about the intertube.
 
sbi
In weeks, ^this is the best Debbie had come up with. I keep thinking about unfollowing her. And she used to be really gorgeous for a while. :(
@Fanael insert std xkcd episode about someone being wrong out there
 
sbi
Uh oh. Those people keep upvoting me, now my nice round number is gone. :(
 
@sbi As you wish
 
sbi
@DeadMG You poor, dumb puppy. You got that all wrong. My reply was to be considered as me having taken the time to dig out the link and post it, without me having to actually spend the time. (I'm not a student, remember?)
 
6:32 PM
@sbi woof woof
 
sbi
Well, speaking of spending time: Nice talking to you, guys, but now it's back to work for me...
 
wow, there are other activities beyond this chat
 
well now
I could do some UI work, which needs to be done but I really don't want to do
 
evening
 
or I could mess with some 3D stuff, which could be much more fun but I'm not even sure if it's necessary
 
6:35 PM
what's up? Except for the fact someone in this room is bound to be wrong, as they are on the internet.
 
@TonyTheLion That is impossible.
 
0
Q: The Art of Code Optimization. Am I Missing Something Here?

IntermediateHackerWords of Wisdom (or so I've heard) More computing sins are committed in the name of efficiency (without necessarily achieving it) than for any other single reason - including blind stupidity. ~W.A. Wulf The First Rule of Program Optimization: Don't do it. The Second Rule of Program Optimizatio...

 
Windows Forms programming is really strange when you are used to Cocoa. Where's the fücking menu bar?! :P
 
@daknøk it's not that difficult. But I hate the overall design of Windows Forms.
 
6:39 PM
@IntermediateHacker I don't say it's difficult, it's just extremely different.
Does Microsoft have any GUI guidelines like Apple has?
Aaaaah ClearType! My eyes! D:
 
@daknøk I saw one in msdn
 
sbi
@IntermediateHacker That needs one more vote to be reopened. Anyone?
 
seriously, closing it was unfair.
 
done.
 
@Abyx thanks.
 
6:52 PM
@IntermediateHacker what are good alternatives? WPF?
@Abyx I found it! (:
 
@daknøk yes, I guess. but if you are planning to only target windows.
@daknøk GTK# is pretty good too, for cross-platform stuff.
 
@IntermediateHacker It's just for Windows.
 
@daknøk then WPF is adequate.
 
cool
 
7:04 PM
@IntermediateHacker I remember once I made a custom map class, turned out crazy slow. Eventually I discovered my internal predicate expected a const std::pair<const key, value>& and I was giving it a const std::pair<key, value>&, and so every comparison required a key and value copy. :/ Blew my mind when someone showed me.
 
sbi
@MooingDuck A profiler would have shown you.
 
@sbi I profiled, but everything was inlined. Profiler simply said time spent in .find() was X.
 
sbi
@MooingDuck Yeah, sometimes profilers are too bad. I hate that, too.
 
HTC released a quadcore phone, what is the damn point??? We can't even utilize a quadcore properly on a normal PC, let alone on a phone
 
Awesome answer. thanks @sbi :)
 
7:17 PM
@TonyTheLion Now you can compile C++ on your phone with high concurrency, so it will take less time.
 
@sbi I have that problem a lot. Maybe I should stop profiling my containers, or at least disable inlining.
 
heheh
 
off to sleep now. bye everyone.
 
sbi
In a project I once worked in, a junior programmer was profiling to find out why a specific operation was too slow. He boiled it down to one line of code, but couldn't see why it took so much time. Since CVS blame pointed at me, he asked me. I remember four or five of us standing around the guy's screen, staring at the code, trying to find the problem. Then I bent forward, positioned the cursor, typed a single &, and left the room without saying a word.
I think this was in 2002, and when I meet those old cow-workers, every single time someone speaks of profiling they will still laugh at me for forgetting this single & and thus passing a big map by copy every time my XML parser found a tag, thereby bringing the whole application to a crawl while reading even simple, small, and rather slim XML files.
 
@daknøk few phones have decent compilers
 
7:17 PM
meh I feel like shit
 
@MooingDuck I'm aware of GCC running on the iPhone (it's in Cydia). I'm not sure if it works well. The JVM works well, though (where "well" is defined as how it runs on a desktop, of course…).
 
@TonyTheLion I'm sick at home and can barely breathe :(
 
@sbi lol. one reference can make a difference.
 
pfff, Ï've just had some news I'd rather not have had
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion I'm sorry. Is it that bad?
 
7:19 PM
Since iOS is very similar to Mac OS X, it shouldn't be too difficult to get clang running on an iPhone.
 
@sbi yea, a close family member of mine possibly has tbc or lung cancer, still figuring out which
:(
 
sbi
@TonyTheLion Ah. I am so sorry. I know the feeling too well. My father was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer a few years ago.
 
From the Rep cap blog post:
> [Did you know that] Without the +200 per day reputation cap, a certain Stack Overflow user would have almost 60,000 reputation?
 
60000 isn't much (compared to what the top users have). Or do you mean 60000 per day?
 
@sbi yea it sucks bad
I don't even know how to deal with it, emotionally
 
7:24 PM
@daknøk no, he was talking about Jon Skeet's total rep
he has over 400000 now
 
sbi
@SethCarnegie You need to look at that blog posting's date.
 
@sbi yeah I know
 
sbi
@IntermediateHacker In the same project, the most senior programmer once grabbed me (I was considered the C++ guru by them) to have me look at his performance problem, where writing a file using IO streams took way too long. He had tried everything, including fiddling with the stream buffer size — to no avail. The stream would flush every few dozen chars, binding the operation to the speed of the HD.
I had a suspicion the moment he told that, and in 2mins found he used std::endl whenever he needed a '\n'. A deadly error, which to find he had spent a whole day. His code sped up by an order of magnitude.
 
@sbi the point is the rep cap didn't help
 
sbi
@SethCarnegie Oh, it did. It's only that by now, the same problem is an order of magnitude bigger.
 
7:27 PM
@sbi you can also turn off the stdio synchronization. but while it gets less slow, it doesn't really get fast. as i recall.
 
@sbi I disagree, and why should I care if Jon Skeet gets 10000 rep a day?
 
sbi
@CheersandhthAlf Isn't that only helpful when you read from and write to the same device?
 
(that was one of the reasons in favour of the rep cap)
 
Repcaps should be turned off when one your answers gets more than 20 votes in one day. :)
 
@sbi not sure
 
sbi
7:29 PM
@SethCarnegie Oh, don't preach to the choir. I'm not particularly fond of the rep cap. I think for the first time in months I'll hit it today.
 
@sbi well it's different when you have 60k rep :) By that time you get tired of answering the same set of 10 questions every day
 
sbi
@CheersandhthAlf IIRC, the synchronization makes sure std::cout is flushed before std::cin is read from, both of which are tied to the console.
@SethCarnegie Oh, I tire much more easily. I got tired of that by the time I had 600 rep. :)
 
@sbi how did you get to 60k with such a fragile constitution?
 
Hi all, I have a quick noobie question and I'd appreciate some direction: I have an Object base class with derived Cube and Sphere classes who specific implementations of a function called Intersect(). I have a vector of Object and add cubes and spheres to it, and later I want to call object[i].Intersect() and have it know which implementation to call (sphere or cube). However, it just calls the "Object" implementation (which is nothing)
 
sbi
@Aaron Pull out your book and read about virtual functions.
 
7:32 PM
Hehe, that's what I'm doing xD I'm sure I don't quite understand it yet
the intersection methods are all virtual..
 
sbi
@Aaron What I seem to understand from your description of your problem seems to point at you not declaring the base class function virtual. if that's not the problem, then you will have to come up with a small repro that exhibits the behavior, so we can see for ourselves.
 
@SethCarnegie I got tired of that at about 20k... Only 6 more softcaps to legendary and I'm having a VERY hard time getting there since I skip all the newbie questions.
 
Ok, I'll check to make sure
 
@Mysticial I devour newbie questions because I am just above the level of newbie and I can't answer the really good ones
 
Damn, I needed one more upvote to finish the day, and I just got a random downvote...
 
7:36 PM
@Mysticial done
@Mysticial I had to search through your list of answers because I've already upvoted most of them lol
 
wth? Why did I just get 2 surprise upvotes on x = x++. EDIT: Oh lol thx!
 
you call that surprise^^? coming here and begging for upvotes
 
@bamboon I usually do that to the end of the day if I'm at like 195 or something.
@SethCarnegie By the looks of it, I've also upvoted a good chunk of your top answers as well. :)
 
@Mysticial that is what the lounge is good for
 
"A global recalc is being performed on meta, for more information see upcoming reputation changes" Aww I lost 105 rep from a deleted answer... :(
Oh cool, they're testing the new rep system.
-105 	02:33 	deleted 	I would like a site for Anime and Manga
 
sbi
7:42 PM
To continue the theme of profiling war stories from that one project: My code wrote and read XML files which stored configuration info across all kinds of platforms, and it needed to parse all that at application startup. When it was a few dozen XML files, this was fine, but after a few releases we got to 1k of such files only for the pre-installed configurations, and startup took 10secs just to read that stuff.
Something had to be done, but speeding up a set of complex XML parsers built on expat is not easy. The way out was to not to read most of those files in the first place. I changed the code to read and write an index file, which maps configuration names to file names. The code now reads just that index file and makes sure all the configurations are backed up by an existing file, and all files are indexed. Those 1k of files are then read in the background in an OnIdle call.
That cut the time spend in my code for startup to about 5% and made the performance police never ever bother me again. :)
This is what I meant with "algorithmic improvements", @IntermediateHacker.
 
does msdn specify somewhere that HANDLE is void*, or I can't rely on it?
^ probably @CheersandhthAlf can know this...
 
And algorithmic optimizations don't necessarily have to be complexity improvements. There was an instance where I switched from an O(n log(n)^2) to O(n log(n)^3) algorithm because it had a smaller Big-O constant.
 
@Mysticial "O(1) still sucks for large values of 1"
9
 
@Abyx loooooool
 
@Abyx I see what you did there... :)
 
7:55 PM
@Mysticial huh?
 
sbi
@Abyx IIRC there's a macro that makes the WinAPI headers define handles as pointers to uniquely defined structs, so that they aren't interchangeable anymore. I'm not sure how this interacts with the generic HANDLE, though, I have forgotten most of what little I once knew about the WinAPI.
@Mysticial Of course, when n is only small enough, it doesn't matter that much anymore.
 
Of course you can do the messy thing of having 5 different algorithms each with different complexities/constants and picking the best of them for each interval...
 
I'm still looking for that O(-1) function
 
@SethCarnegie Can the big-O be negative?
 
@Mysticial when you call it, it gives you back time
 

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