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11:00 PM
@Xaade Woah, you're really pushing it.
 
of course you can work around that with something like std::function, but function pointers are a kind of low-tech substitute
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Hell I am
 
@Maxpm Closures.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes it can be done.... I just have to re-engineer the language, during the language.
 
11:01 PM
@Maxpm Dunno, but it's a mental speedbump for me: hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/base/latest/doc/html/…
 
@Xaade What does "Dynamically create an object containing all variables declared on the stack" even mean?
2
 
@FredOverflow I'm using a line function that apparently creates another point below the starting point, and thus draws a line to the starting point :P I'm trying to fix that right now
 
@FredOverflow That's the part I'm stuck on
 
Oh wait, are you talking about how C# implements closures?
 
@FredOverflow line creates a lot smoother output than screen.set_at(x,y,0,0,0)
 
11:01 PM
What is a more conventional definition of a functor?
 
@FredOverflow As a build instruction, add in code that puts all variables into a dynamic member object
 
:3
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Closures close over something, aka maintain state. C++ functors don't have to.
 
Well the underlying concept is Callable. So a callable object.
 
@jalf In Haskell, a functor is a... damn, I always forget. @RMartinhoFernandes?
 
11:02 PM
Always been a bit unsure of that. I know haskell and ML and other functional languages have them, but again, because they use the name to mean something completely different than what C++ calls them, it kind of throws me off
 
@Xeo Functors without state are just functions.
 
@FredOverflow A type that can be mapped over.
 
@Xeo Then they're closures with empty state, duh.
 
Like std::vector.
 
SomeMethod(Action a)
{
    Variable x;
    Dynobj v = new Dynobj() { x };
    using (Dynobj)
    {
        a.Invoke();
    }
}
 
11:03 PM
Is closing over nothing at all that problematic?
 
@LucDanton Closing over nothing is the same as closing over a value of the unit type ().
 
Yeah!
 
Closing over nothing is like opening.
 
"The program can't start because libgmp-10.dll is missing from your computer."

I don't think I installed MinGW correctly?
 
@LucDanton Btw, the unit type in Haskell has two values :P Let that sink in for a while.
 
11:04 PM
() and undefined?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes meaning what? How do you map over a type?
 
@jalf That's for the type to decide!
 
@jalf Depends on the type.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes wat. Does that stem from practical reasons, theoretical reasons, or is it emergent from a particular property of the language, or something else entirely? And should I try to figure out for myself what this is about?
 
@CatPlusPlus that's really helpful!
 
11:05 PM
If, on the other hand, it's bottom like Cat said I don't care!
 
"like std::vector" implies that it's just a parametrized type, but I'm pretty sure there's supposed to be more to it
 
@LucDanton Yes, it's bottom.
 
Oh fine.
 
SomeMethod(Action a, params Object[] args)
{
    Dynobj v = new Dynobj() { args };
    using (Dynobj)
    {
        a.Invoke(args);
    }
}
 
@jalf For a vector it means to apply the function to all elements. For a boost::optional it means to apply the function if the optional is not empty, or return empty if it is empty.
 
11:06 PM
what the hell, I think there is something wrong with me while
 
@jalf Yes, it implies a parametrized type. I should have made that clear.
 
That's the closest I can get to doing RAII
 
Ok, really sleep. Really bye.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Really see you in 5 minutes.
 
oh, and if I'm not mistaken, in prolog "functor" just means "function". Lovely word. Everyone can make up their own meaning
 
11:09 PM
omh I almost have this, now it shows the line going straight up into the air :O
 
@jalf static is better.
template <template <typename> class Functor, typename A, typename B>
std::function<Functor<B>(Functor<A>)> map(std::function<B(A)>) // doens't work on Mini-C++
@jalf something like this.
 
woo, template templates
 
@Mysticial If I recall, you have to add both teh ming folder and the ming/bin folders to the path
 
@MooingDuck I think I missed that step... thx. Trying again in a sec.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes What's Mini-C++.
 
11:12 PM
lol
2 hours ago, by FredOverflow
> Schildt's book The Art of C++ similarly features an interpreter for a language called Mini-C++. (Mini-C++ does not support the "class" keyword, although minimal and artificial support for cin and cout has been added.)
2 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
The only place where you really really need the class keyword is in template template parameters.
 
Welp.
 
oh hell I love messing with primitive line functions:
XD
 
@Hoxieboy makin progress
 
@ScottW just love me mah acurate 2d trajections :P
 
needs moar AA
 
11:14 PM
@SethCarnegie Did you use 32-bit MinGW or 64-bit?
 
hmm, that seems straightforward enough. Just kind of irks me that you basically come up with a whole new term just to describe "types that the map function can be applied to". Seems a bit vague and fluffy
 
:)
 
OK I got this
 
ah well, sleepytime for me
 
@Hoxieboy wolframalpha.com/input/?i=bat‐insignia (the hyphen belongs to the URL) the formula is here
 
11:15 PM
@jalf I think the point is that the term is not new but comes from maths.
 
@jalf I didn't come up with it! Math did!
@Hoxieboy Oh, I just noticed now that you're using the same DropBox link to post that picture. Firefox keeps using the one from its cache, so I always see it as the first pic.
 
@LucDanton yeah, just makes it hard to home in on its meaning
 
Xeo
"Setup will install X in the following folder. To install in a different folder, click Browse and ..." - great, [Browse...] is greyed out.
 
taxonomic networks? I think I have a future :D
 
feels like there's something you're missing
 
11:16 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I use chrome <3 I can post it as a different pic if you want
 
also I guess I can see the relation between the mathematical term and the haskell version at least, so that's something :)
 
@jalf Well if you'd never approached the concept of a function in maths, would you grumble "Kind of irks me that someone basically came up with a whole new term just to describe 'procedure'"?
 
:D
 
@daknøk hell no too much maths XD
 
(My point simply being that there's no way one can know all of the math jargon, but it's still neat to use some for the appropriate problem domain)
 
11:19 PM
@LucDanton well, I was familiar with the functor concept in maths, and I knew Haskell's functors were related to that, but I wasn't sure how exactly :)
 
Oh! I don't even know the first thing about either (although apparently I've been reinventing some of it in C++).
 
@LucDanton Next step: monads.
:P
 
Time for some nice background music.
 
hmm, this java function is just over a thousand lines. I'mma go yell at my coworkers for a while
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I honestly write those things because I feel a need for them. Don't feel the need for monads, because quite obviously if(auto maybe = foo()) { auto& object = *maybe; /* use object */ } is fine in our imperative impure world. (Taking an optional/Maybe example.)
 
11:22 PM
@MooingDuck reduce it to 10 lines and make it much faster for +1.
 
@LucDanton Wait, you needed functors?
 
However I've already used uncurry(f, tuple) (okay that's not a functor thingy) and apply(f, tuple).
@RMartinhoFernandes Some things I've needed turned out to be similar to functors. I think. Again, I'm not familiar enough.
 
@daknøk ten? Wow. My first pass dropped it to 200, and I plan on pulling more out. It was effectively a switch with each block having 100 lines or so, I'm just pulling out the blocks.
 
@LucDanton But yeah, monads are a bit annoying without do-syntax and other syntactic goodies.
 
wtf m8?
 
11:24 PM
@Hoxieboy isn't progress fun?
 
Oh yeah, and I'd like if(auto&& object: foo()) be the equivalent of the above. Reminiscent of range-for, but for the 'pointer/pointee' concept rather than the range concept.
pointer-if!
 
@MooingDuck My, my, yes indeed
 
But that would imply actual work.
 
11:25 PM
Alright... time to compile Clang! Let's see what 4.4 GHz and 16GB can do... Start time 5:25.
 
On a more serious note I'm not sure C++ needs more syntax.
 
2%
3%
4%
5%
lol...
 
Ok, we get it, your machine is fast.
 
@Mysticial Compiling clang on my machine took about eight minutes. 4 GB, 2 GHz, two cores, 64-bits.
 
11:26 PM
Mmmh, now that the (all too interesting) discussions have died down, is it a good time to get back to DF? Is it the second winter that's supposed to be harsh? Because my second winter was harsh.
 
@daknøk It's only using 1 core on my machine...
 
@MooingDuck Oh, that's DF-related. Welp, great minds etc.
 
@Mysticial which compiler are you using to compile clang?
 
@daknøk I'm following Seth's instructions to the word.
 
"terminal hissy-fit" sounds like whats happening to my application right now XD
 
11:27 PM
@LucDanton I played the second winter on the succession game. No problem.
 
I've seen that picture before, but I sure do notice the colosseum(?) each time. For good reason.
 
@LucDanton I usually don't have problems until year five or so
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Admittedly if wouldn't have been that harsh if all of my plump helmet spawn didn't mysteriously vanish. And by mysteriously, I mean Prepare easy meal x20.
 
Does NetBeans have a split pane like Visual Studio? Or do people just say it's better because it's not made by microsoft?
 
The autumn had a bloody massacre, but the winter went fine.
 
11:28 PM
It looks I/O bound?
 
@LucDanton Oh, I always mark plump helmet spawn as no-cook.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I usually toggle depending on how many I have
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I had that at the same time of my food shortage. When said shortage predictably also triggered a drinks shortage. When the water was frozen and I hadn't got around to putting a well.
 
@Hoxieboy WTF, the preview doesn't look at all like the actual picture when you click on it?
 
Oh. Bad planning then?
 
11:30 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes did you hear that I had problems and gave up? :(
 
So 5ish dead with no food or drinks or water to make my dorfs happy.
 
14 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@Hoxieboy Oh, I just noticed now that you're using the same DropBox link to post that picture. Firefox keeps using the one from its cache, so I always see it as the first pic.
 
@FredOverflow due to cache < derp problems :P sorry I can post it using a different name
 
@MooingDuck Oh :( What happened?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I may have possibly turned that on by accident. I think it's off by default? I'm not sure.
 
11:30 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Dwarf FOrtress kept crashing
@FredOverflow I think he's replacing the file it links to, but the preview doesn't update
 
Fsck. Something I did?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Possibly your/my RAW files didn't match
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Can't you just use the orange "upload..." button from this chat for pictures?
 
@FredOverflow I'm interested, where is this magical button?
 
@MooingDuck Have you overclocked your CPU?
 
11:32 PM
Also, was I incompetent(er) back when I first played DF? I remember the manager screen to be useless. And now it's awesomest!
 
@LucDanton Yes, it's awesome. Not sure about the old days.
 
@FredOverflow nope. I got "process crashed, would you like to debug?"
 
@MooingDuck Haha "like" and "debug" in the same sentence!
 
(Although it took me some time to understand that when I change some priorities I most likely have to 'shake off' the related workshops. Is that right?)
 
ok guys I'll use imgur instead :)
 
11:34 PM
@Hoxieboy or just use the upload button right next to the send button to the right of the text entry box
 
@ScottW agreed
 
@LucDanton You mean, the jobs that were already queued in the workshops are not removed?
Yes.
 
So when I was having that shortage and dead dorfs lying around I kept on producing cabinets and doors instead of burial receptables.
 
@LucDanton Ow.
I heard dorfs now need real burials.
 
@MooingDuck I think that's a rep thing, I don't have one
 
11:34 PM
So, miasma. Right in the middle of my food (all those things happened at once, the shortage was precipitated by the massacre).
 
@Hoxieboy oh, possibly
@LucDanton they usually do
 
@LucDanton Sounds like a normal DF spiral of doom.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Those corpses went nowhere. And tbh I don't even remember them being dumped when I was playing before.
 
:3 its ok, like scott said: imgur=god
@FredOverflow yep don't have one :)
 
11:35 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, but triggered/precipated by the tantrum of a child.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I heard the phrase "tantrum spiral"
@LucDanton that's all it takes
 
All those other doom-struck dwarves managed to interrupt some work and then went down quietly and dwarfly.
 
@MooingDuck That's when it's caused by tantrums (which I didn't know it had been until Luc mentioned it just now)
 
@LucDanton I heard someone made a 3d version/map viewer of DF, I can't remember where :P
 
@LucDanton I had one fortress I got to 180ish dwarves to year 9, most of them sat around and had parties all the time. Then the woodcutter got eaten by a dragon, and all 180 immediately went berserk and killed each other. It was a matter of like 5 minutes and I had 6 dwarves left, all insane or in prison.
 
11:37 PM
Sometimes things just go wrong in so many ways the dorfs don't have time to throw tantrums.
 
@Hoxieboy There's several
 
:)
 
It didn't spiral because as I've experienced those before I have smooth stone and a big hall. It's sort of enough, even when dorfs are hunting for vermin and can't drink anything, hah.
 
Yeah, legendary dining halls seem to help a lot, even if they don't have anything for diner.
 
First person DF, now THAT's what I would like to see
XD
 
11:38 PM
Minecraft?
 
I did lose my good mason. So as you can see it was all-in-one: get 5 dead dorfs with one in the manger, get drowned in rock cabinets/tables/thrones because I can't manage enough, no more plump helmet spawn, no drinks, ice everywhere.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes close, but managing you're own dwarves, perhaps a mod is required?
 
By the way when I had realized I had no more spawn I decided to switch to fishing. (Remember the ice.)
 
@Hoxieboy I just want DF with pretty graphics and simple UI
 
@MooingDuck I hear you
as much as a person can hear pixels :)
 
11:39 PM
@Hoxieboy Erm, managing your dorfs in first person? How can that be?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Perhaps being the ringleader of the dwarves, something like that?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes you control one dwarf, and set tasks for the rest, there's several games on that concept
 
So anyway to avoid that happening again I thought it would be a good idea to appoint a sheriff. But all the other tantrums were harmless in comparison.
 
@MooingDuck Screw the graphics, a UI is enough.
@LucDanton A sheriff? Don't give him a weapon.
 
I want multiplayer :( I rarely play single-player games these days.
 
11:41 PM
@MooingDuck Hell, at least a few people have come out with some texture packs for DF, which I am insistently grateful for
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Well I was still struggling with job managing. Not quite to the point of micromanaging equipment right now.
 
Oh, I micromanage all the way until I can keep the fortress running whole seasons without interaction.
 
Speaking of, I do have a handle on management now, but then Therapist is giving me garbage :( So back to struggling with labours.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes perhaps Third person?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I went from 7 -> 21 -> 60+ dorfs right in the middle of that second winter. Now back to 55ish, after something like two wave of immigrants, hah (because vampires).
So I figured micromanagement was out of the question.
 
11:43 PM
@LucDanton A sheriff with a weapon (well, a deadly one; training weapons are ok) is bound to kill any dorf that resists arrest. If the dorf is liked, others will get sad, or angry. You can do the maths.
 
I don't know how you guys do it :P I can only keep my 7 starting dwarves, IF that
 
Why are graphics such a big deal?
 
Now trying having one specialist with reserved workshop + free-for-all workshops with some more labourers enabled.
 
@Pubby they're not, just toying with the ideas
 
@Pubby They aren't. But the game does need a decent UI. The fact that it's virtually unplayable without The Rapist speaks volumes.
 
11:44 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes trying to best my grammar eh?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, that's not new. I thought the sheriff would help because for some reason on that rampage nobody tried to stop the tantruming dorf. Possibly because it was a child?
 
I actually started working on a DF-like game, dunno if it will get anywhere
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Do you still have issues with Therapist?
 
Trying to finally get into Dwarf Fortress... again.
> I have ati hd 6995. can my graphics card handle this game?
lol
 
@LucDanton Haven't played Fortress mode since. Been trying Adventurer mode.
 
11:46 PM
@FredOverflow I really liked those graphical sets or whatever to get into the game. (I had no experience with rogue-likes though.) YMMV.
 
(erm, sorry if this is random) but how did I get 43 rep?
last time I came on I had like 28
 
@Hoxieboy My default position is to assume there was a recalculation.
 
> I wanna be an ambushing, wrestling thrower that can use armor and a shield. Oh yeah, I need to be able to swim, cause if I don't, I will drown.
lol
 
11:47 PM
@FredOverflow Where's that from?
 
eh? someone accepted my very old answer finally XD didn't even see that
 
2 mins ago, by FredOverflow
 
I don't know why but now that's I've picked up the game a second time I'm okay with having no graphical set thingy.
A bit of a shame as I think they've gotten shinier but oh well.
 
@ScottW lol
only the delinquents
 
@LucDanton I never really tried DF with the standard tiles (though I do play text-mode NetHack).
 
11:48 PM
@LucDanton Do I have to buy an old ISA VGA card in order to play Dwarf Fortress?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes nethack? I love you.
 
Ah, I think I don't mind because I've using a more hands-off approach with the job manager + Therapist. I still have problems when e.g. kobold thieves are amuck, can't see those k when they run around so quickly.
 
I actually start up a *nix to windows ported game of Rogue every now and then, the very first rogue like ever made :D
 
clang.llvm.org/cxx_status.html —> Lambda expressions in SVN! (:
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I played with the standard tiles for a long time, I barely notice the difference anymore, except for pets. Can't tell pets apart.
 
11:50 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes How painful is it to change what DF looks like? I only ever installed all-in-one packages before.
 
@LucDanton not hard at all
 
@LucDanton Apparently it breaks succession games :( Sorry guys.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes depends on the type of tileset. The pretty ones replace the raws, and mismatched raws can sometimes cause problems. Simple tilesets are 100% portable.
 
@LucDanton Dunno. Always used all-in-one packages too.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes does it? I did it once and it didn't do anything? :s
 
11:51 PM
@MooingDuck Do you have any insight?
 
> I don't think I have a weapon. All I have is my bare hands. Me and my bare hands vs. a mass-murdering cyclops. This is gonna go great!
lol
 
A "fluffy wambler" is a bunny.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes We'll see, I was able to play for a full season the second time, crashed right before or during summer. We can see how DF with standard graphics holds up, and save more often
 
that has some insight on how to update + change graphics :D
 
11:53 PM
> Sweet, I traded my socks and my underpants for a necklace. The fool just got ripped off!
 
@MooingDuck How do I distinguish a simple from a non-simple tileset?
 
@FredOverflow underpants? hell no, those cost me 15 bucks
 
@MooingDuck Did you try running one of those "update_savegames" scripts? Sometimes I see people mentioning that in the forums.
 
How much RAM does DF need?
 
@LucDanton the dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/… mentions "edited raws"
@RMartinhoFernandes no?
 
11:55 PM
@MooingDuck So you're deducing that all other categories are fine?
 
At least clang crashes with a segfault now instead of giving a syntax error when using lambdas.
 
@LucDanton the screenshots help distinguish, the "safe" ones are simpler, because a lot of objects use the same graphics. Like the + character and the floor tiles are the same, unless you edit the raws. So they have to make floor tiles that still kinda look like a +. And such.
 
@FredOverflow 1GB, maybe more.
 
@FredOverflow dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.31:System_requirements suggests 512MB as a little short, 1GB is more than enough
 
@RMartinhoFernandes There doesn't appear to be any alternative to those memory layouts you gave me :(
 

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