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5:00 PM
in Windows 8 Developers Chat, 8 secs ago, by Cicada
They're late! This wouldn't happen with Apple evangelists. Classic of M$
This is so not a good idea
 
@Cicada haha
 
Bwahaha
They just joined
And probably are reading the transcript
Which is full of 'omg dey late'
 
XAML and HTML focus...so even MS doesn't develop "real" applications anymore? :p
 
5:04 PM
QUESTION Do you still develop "real" applications?
 
is there a way to avoid copy constructors when sending 'ifstream' objects as reference? I mean, not using copy constructors.
 
Why do I want to flag his posts.
 
@rogcg That's a non-issue. You're not sending them as a reference somewhere.
 
@rogcg how do you manage to attempt to call copy constructors
 
Bah, fuck Metro forever and everything related to that.
 
5:07 PM
@Cheersandhth.-Alf usually by making it the member of a class, or passing it to a template thing that makes a copy that you didn't know about.
 
> I prefer C over C++ for its cleanness
 
@CatPlusPlus concur
 
@CatPlusPlus I like the font though.
 
0
Q: Too polite to answer

IanIn the comments section of this question user Praetorian has posted a suitable answer, it solved the askers problem and could be useful for anyone else encountering this issue. However the solution was not his idea, quote: "it was LucDanton that figured that out. He should be the one posting an a...

^^ cc @LucDanton
 
ARM, too.
I guess there's nothing left in Win8 to talk about
 
5:09 PM
@MooingDuck @Cheersandhth.-Alf here is what I'm doing. I keep getting a uninitialized reference member 'LA::LexicalAnalyzer::indata' error. paste.ubuntu.com/1300606
 
@Mysticial what's preventing the OP from posting that answer himself.
 
Oh no their precious rep
 
@kbok I don't get the point of this inquiry.
 
> Why do you prefer C, as a curiosity ?
 
you're probably initializing a data member input
can't have that
 
5:10 PM
@Cicada This guy wants to write metro style apps in plain C. Go figure.
 
I want to initialize 'indata', which is declared std::ifstream& indata; in .h file
 
not as a copy of another stream, but you can use the other streams .str() to copy the text over
wait it's not a string stream
sorry
 
it's an ifstream
 
badasses
 
store a pointer to the stream?
 
5:13 PM
@rogcg works fine. Try again.
 
or copy over the buffer pointer?
 
Xeo
in Windows 8 Developers Chat, 2 mins ago, by SiPlus
@JerryNixon C is much cleaner than C++, C++ is a pile of garbage from different programming paradigms
Ahahaha
 
@MooingDuck LOL ideone blocked here in company
 
Xeo
What a fool.
 
Fuck XAML/HTML. I'll move to linux before I have to develop in that stuff.
 
@MartinJames Have fun with Gtk
 
@MooingDuck LOL. usually I see the page chaches via google hahahah
 
I'm gonna ask a GTK question then
 
@MooingDuck BLOCKED and BLOCKED. try paste.ubuntu.com
 
@rogcg I can't imagine why those sites would be blocked...
 
5:14 PM
@Xeo Is he trolling?
 
@MooingDuck me neither
 
Wait, I thought references had to be initialized to something, even if it's indirectly a reference to null.
 
Xeo
@Borgleader Doesn't seem like it
 
They're allowed in class declarations?
 
5:15 PM
@Cicada, lol
 
@rogcg he just used a reference. that makes the class non-assignable. if that's okay with you then it's cleanest
 
@ThePhD yes, but can't have a reference to null. They must always be explicitly initialized (except by implicit copy constructor)
 
@Xeo Oh god... faithInHumanity--;
 
for fuck's sake, will the C moron shut up
 
@kbok Stuff that as well. I'll just do embedded.
 
5:16 PM
gtkmm is supposedly better than Qt in terms of idioms and style
 
@MooingDuck Couldn't you do `int& anIntRef = ((int)null)) and have it stick, thought?
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf that's identical to what Im doing.. But I still have this "uninitialized reference member 'LA::LexicalAnalyzer::indata'"
 
@ThePhD that wont compile, and any way to make it "work" is UB.
 
@MartinJames All you need is a console anyway :)
 
Goddamnit Asteriks, why you keep messing me up. D:
 
5:16 PM
Dereferencing nullptr is UB
 
@rogcg then it's not identical, or that's not the full error message
 
@CatPlusPlus If this is actually true, I'd like to see some code using it
 
@rogcg Visual Studio?
 
Whatever idiot thought *_ should mean the same thing is insane. I don't need two ways to italicize shit.
 
@MooingDuck sublime text hahahahahhh
 
5:17 PM
I like Qt but the custom build system is getting on my nerves
 
You don't need to use qmake you know
 
@rogcg we need the rest of the error message to help you. sorry :(
 
@Chimera Dead, like Cicada
 
I keep wanting to use GTK for the next project, but don't actually have time.
 
@CatPlusPlus You need to use moc
 
5:18 PM
It's trivial to plug into any build system.
 
@Drise Ah.. greetings!
 
when I build the .h file, I dont have error messages. When I build the .cpp file, I only have these:

In constructor 'LA::LexicalAnalyzer::LexicalAnalyzer()':
uninitialized reference member 'LA::LexicalAnalyzer::indata' [-fpermissive]

these are the only errors that shows. =/
 
Hell, most of them come with support for moc.
At least SCons and waf do.
 
@CatPlusPlus The API sucks. Qt is better (never thought I'd actually say that)
 
@CatPlusPlus generally. not always.
 
5:19 PM
... This reminds me. I need to create my own AssetProcessor for my engine that work with Visual Studio's build system.
 
The raw API or gtkmm?
 
@Chimera No, I've just been stuck in a room with no internet access.
 
@Drise oh that sucks.
 
@Chimera Working on setting up some sort of secure system. No internet allowed :/
 
But before I go nuts, is there anyway to tell Visual Studio that a whole folder or a bunch of files of stuff should follow around a DLL?
Or should I just embed all the necessary resources into the DLL itself?
 
5:19 PM
@Cicada now that's trolling
 
@rogcg You've been showing us the wrong constructor this whole time. The error is in your default constructor. Did you =default it? Because it can't be defaulted if you have a reference member.
 
@rogcg Well do you initialise the reference member maybe perhaps not
 
@CatPlusPlus I've used the raw only. And it sucked.
 
@Drise Sounds like fun,
 
@Cicada Well, I'm not talking about C API yep
 
5:20 PM
in Windows 8 Developers Chat, 24 secs ago, by Jerry Nixon
@jpm0004 Yes, to build Windows 8 Store apps you must develop on Windows 8. Visual Studio will install on Windows 7, of course. That is because you can build many types of projects in VS. However, for Win 8 apps, you must dev on W8.
MS, the new Apple.
 
@ThePhD Can't you just put the other gunge in the installer?
 
@Cicada Ahahahaahahahahahaha
 
@MartinJames Uh.... gunge?
 
@Chimera Not really. Doing a shit ton of coding in PowerShell.
 
:5914369 I just have this default:

LexicalAnalyzer(); // .h file
// .cpp file
LA::LexicalAnalyzer::LexicalAnalyzer()
{
    // default ctor
}
 
5:21 PM
@Cicada W8 and VS2012 aren't hard to get for free
 
can't do that if you have a reference member
 
This LexicalAnalyzer keeps popping here once a day, what-the-fuck
 
Well, then you don't initialise reference member and the error actually tells you that
 
references must be initialized
 
delete default ctor?
 
5:21 PM
but you clearly don't
so what's the confusion here?
 
@ThePhD 'whole folder or a bunch of files of stuff'
 
Maybe train some reading comprehension
 
@Drise ick
 
@Cicada It's not like you have to get 1500$ of specific hardware to get started
 
Unless you have sensible default for reference target, you can't have default ctor
Also don't use reference members because they suck
 
5:22 PM
@rogcg well that is the buggy code, you have to initialize the reference member.
 
@kbok If I get that stuff, it's going in a VM so I can easily get rid of it.
 
@rogcg probably, unless you can initialize that member to something.
 
@MooingDuck is there any resource explaining that? I'm confused yet..
 
@MartinJames but iPhone
 
@kbok But this is what we're headed towards
 
5:23 PM
@MartinJames Oh, this isn't for an installer. This is for just deployment when I build my projects; certain assets (shaders, fallback fonts, etc.) are supposed to be carted around with the engine. I'm trying to figure out the best way to bundle that all up.
 
It's very straightforward really. Reference = must be initialised. Duh.
 
Or at the very least, how to get the files to include themselves in the output folder where the project is going.
 
@rogcg references must be initialized when constructed. If it's a member, it's constructed during the constructor's initializer list. Ergo, reference members must be initialized in the member initialization list. If that's not possible, then that type of constructor isn't possible, and should be deleted.
 
and I initialise it by doing this to my ctor definition?

(std::ifstream& input) : indata(input)
 
Yes. Just like magic
 
5:25 PM
@rogcg yes, except the default constructor doesn't have the input parameter.
 
@ThePhD Sorry, I don't understand the problem - load them in the installer?
 
OMGGG that's so clear noww!!
LOL
 
@MartinJames You know what... I got it. Thanks
 
Also wow kbok, XNA discontinued? You're right.
That's just a giant whatthefuck.exe
 
XNA team was killed long time ago AFAIR
 
5:26 PM
Yep.
 
Well I lived under a rock for a while then
 
DirectXTK was put in the works a while ago, which was just about when XNA was slain.
 
I knew MDX was discontinued, but XNA...
 
Slowly, people realized that XNA was not going to get an update to DX11.
 
There's SharpDX which is quite nice (or totally awesome)
 
5:26 PM
I'll always remember XNA as that thing with the horrible asset pipeline.
 
@Cicada Looks like M$ are trying to put us all under rocks.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Indeed.
 
@MartinJames ça devient de pierre en pierre !
 
@Cicada Non.
 
@Cicada SharpDX and SlimDX are competitors trying to do the same thing. SharpDX I think is a bit newer than SlimDX, slimdX has been around for longer and has been used in Commercial games.
 
5:28 PM
@ThePhD Yes, and SharpDX doesn't suck.
 
@Cicada that's why it's called lexical
 
Both work well because they're essentially just DirectX API wrappers, though I believe SharpDX can go a lot farther and has more of the API all bundled up and happy.
 
Also can you reenable Start Menu in RTM Win8?
 
Plus, SharpDX also has a branch to it that's reinventing some of the things you get with XNA, such as the infamous Spritebatch
 
@CatPlusPlus This, please.
 
5:29 PM
If not, then I'm not installing this shit ever on anything
 
@ThePhD SharpDX is generated from the C++ headers with a parser written using Boost.Spirit. SlimDX is all by hand. Ahahaha
 
Which probably makes it vastly superior to SlimDX, with maybe a caveat or two here.
But, it's not as if SlimDX doesn't work.
 
@ThePhD vast superiority isn't a caveat to me
 
It's all a pile of dismal shit. Where's my rock?
 
@kbok, I remember you saying you use W8 on a daily basis?
 
5:31 PM
@Cicada Mmm, true.
I was actually debating about it myself. My entire engine was built on top of XNA, excepted I had suplanted the Spritefont system, replaced the Spritebatch System, and was really only using it for its State Management and Graphics Device. Everything else I had redone, even the Content Pipeline down to Model Loaders, PNG Loaders, etc.
So the choice was either stick C# / Sharp(Slim?)DX, or just buckle down and do C++ / DirectX like a real programmer.
Man. Person. Thing. Full of realness. And grittiness.
 
@ThePhD So you shat your pants and went for C#? Ha!
 
In the end, I went raw C++ because I could never get Vorbis loading right in C#.
 
Ah okay ._.
 
Roflmao.
 
That's brave.
 
5:33 PM
Well, I'm sure it'll bite me in the ass in a few moments.
I may be happy I can directly read Vorbis data into structs now,
 
New game for junior developers - 'Where's my rock?'
 
but wait until I have to manage my game's memory usage. :3c
 
I miss coding in C++. I hate powershell.
 
... Powershell is a language?
That people use?
 
Xeo
PS is actually quite powerful, last I heard.
And it has the type-based system, not text-based.
 
5:35 PM
Is that my rock? "Unsupported" - that's not my rock!
 
This: http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/software/2012/windows-8-startmenue-zurueckholen
is a german article, but it lists several tools which attempt to do just that (with pictures)
 
@ThePhD It's a shell, that (like most shells) implements a language.
 
@MartinJames lol
 
Xeo
The worst thing about it are the error messages, though... 5 lines!
for a single wrong command!
 
Learn some markdown kids
 
5:36 PM
@melak47 HAHA SEE I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE HE MESSES UP HIS LINKS TOO
 
@ThePhD I nearly always get them wrong
 
<gratification />
 
Is that my rock? "Compiled executable" - that's not my rock!
 
I think if Luc doesn't post an answer, J.N. should probably just post one himself. But I wouldn't mind my comment being upvoted a few more times either, so it shows up by default :) — Praetorian 39 secs ago
 
@CatPlusPlus isn't it (text)[li.nk] ?
 
5:37 PM
@JerryCoffin So... it's WIndow's / Microsofts attempt at Bash?
 
@CatPlusPlus gah
 
example.com is not available? Aww. D:
 
Well, it appears Final Fantasy's combat system is based on American Handegg.
 
@ThePhD No -- it's substantially different from any Unix shell (of which I'm aware, anyway).
 
5:38 PM
@JerryCoffin Ah.
 
@EtiennedeMartel handegg
 
@EtiennedeMartel Is... Handegg supposed to be a sport?
 
Xeo
@ThePhD Like I said, it has a type-based language system, not a text-based one.
 
Well, it's an egg shaped object that's primarily carried with hands.
 
@ThePhD It is.
 
5:39 PM
@Chimera I think the worst of it is that every piece of software has to be downloaded onto another computer, burned to CD, and then brought into the room. This also includes 30 MB antivirus updates. What a waste.
 
@ThePhD Its a more accurate name for american football
 
powershell is the only shell that makes it difficult to run a program
 
It's not a ball shaped object that's moved around with feet.
 
.... You know, that makes so much more sense than football.
 
it's the only shell where scripting is disabled by default (or that even has an option to disable scripting)
it's the shell for idiots, made by idiots
 
5:40 PM
Why did we call American football, football anyways?
 
(And I specified American because we also got handegg in Canada, with slightly different rules).
@ThePhD It's based on rugby, which appears to derive from football.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Does it involve pancakes and / or maple syrup at some point?
 
@Cicada No. Why pancakes?
 
it has one little known redeeming feature though: it can translate to/from utf-8 streams
 
@CatPlusPlus so anyway, yeah here are some tools that restore the start menu to varying degrees
 
5:40 PM
I mean, there's a kickoff if memory serves and punting during the game but after that.... it's running. Not punting.
 
but that's all
 
Still not buying it
 
@EtiennedeMartel This is disappointing.
 
@CatPlusPlus I get it for free and I don't want it either :)
 
I want a start menu too. I tried W8 and just didn't find it anywhere close to usable
 
5:42 PM
Windows 8 looks and feels kind've lame.
 
This code I'm looking at was written post C#3, and it has a TriState enum with Unknown, No and Yes instead of a bool?.
 
I guess it could make sense for regular tablet use? Like, one of those poke-your-screen tablets, but even then.
 
@ThePhD Win8 is a tablet OS. Using it on a PC is a bad idea.
 
@Cicada To be truly Canadian, it would involve doughnuts, not pancakes.
 
I think I'd just prefer to stick with Windows 7. Solved almost all of Vista's crappy release issues and it's interface is a lot shinier than XP's. Plus it's fairly compatiable with the old games I have, like Threat and Raptor, Call of the Shadows.
 
5:44 PM
@JerryCoffin Well, anything from Tim Horton, really.
 
Also Deadlock, which I figured out how to jerry rig for LAN multiplayer, which is a lot of fun when the Timer doesn't fuck up and the AI doesn't eat shit.
 
@ThePhD I've even been using Vista since the RC stage, and I never had a single problem
 
@melak47 God bless you.
 
A game called Deadlock. Interesting. I guess you can't launch multiple instances of it?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Well, yes -- doughnuts are just the most obvious example.
 
5:45 PM
@Cicada ... You, know. I've never tried.
 
Despite running on a crappy old AMD Sempron 2GHz, 1GB RAM at the time :)
 
@melak47 I didn't really have issues with Vista, regardless I found 7 to be a major improvement.
 
Vista could really eat your drivers.
 
Makes me think of lose/lose, that game that deletes a file on your computer for every enemy you kill.
 
Especially my graphics drivers, though that was more NVidia's fault.
@EtiennedeMartel Wow. People gamble with their file systems.
 
5:47 PM
Some viruses did that too.
 
.... I guess that'd be a fun way to do "file shredding."
 
You'd play a game VS the virus, and if the virus won, it deleted your FS.
It was called Fifa something. (really)
 
CIA: "ALRIGHT GUYS IT'S TIME TO GET RID OF THESE FILES!"
"SHOTGUN XBOX CONTROLLER."
 
@Cicada my mom caught a virus once which wrecked nearly every .exe on any drive
 
@ThePhD It's actually more interesting than that.
> Although touching aliens will cause the player to lose the game, and killing aliens awards points, the aliens will never actually fire at the player. This calls into question the player's mission, which is never explicitly stated, only hinted at through classic game mechanics. Is the player supposed to be an aggressor? Or merely an observer, traversing through a dangerous land? Why do we assume that because we are given a weapon an awarded for using it, that doing so is right?
 
5:49 PM
Oh no a deep meaning
Gun, points, shoot things
 
I was just trying to have fun, officer. :c
 
That's how games work
 
@Borgleader Still on Vista 64 here - dare not upgrade, even to W7, 'cos inevitable massive hassle.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus and lose files.
 
Well, obviously don't play idiotic gimmick games
 
5:50 PM
I think I'll give that game to someone I don't like.
"Hey man, you finished that term paper! Great, let's play a game..."
 
@CatPlusPlus I guess you wouldn't like EarthBound then.
 
@EtiennedeMartel EARTHBOUND WAS THE SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT
They recently English-patched Earthbound II, or Mother III (I think it is)
 
@ThePhD Mother 3, yes.
 
No idea
 
There's a bunch of fans working on an unofficial Mother 4.
 
5:52 PM
What're they building it out of?
C++?
 
Maybe I can go help them.
... BUt I have my own project. :c
 
@MartinJames There's no upgrade hassle to W7.
 
I like games with fun plots and stuff, but if it's all in the manual then I couldn't care less
 
5:53 PM
@CatPlusPlus hey, can you invite me to the trello board? (what's trello, while we're at it)
 
@DeadMG I accept that there is, nearly always, no upgrade hassle to W7.
 
Bug @kbok about it
 
@kbok hey
@kbok hey you :)
 
@CatPlusPlus EarthBound is a game with crappy gameplay. Really. However, the real fun comes from the plot. Actually, the whole game is an acid trip.
 
Also @thecoshman remember to set the group as default for people you approve/add.
(Not needed now just for future)
Oh god Apple rejected my crapp
 
5:57 PM
@ScottW I loved Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG. And I still love them. But EarthBound... I dunno.
 
Super Mario RPG was the greatest story-telling experience ever.
 
@CatPlusPlus what did you submit?
 
I never played it for the gameplay, anyway. In fact, I would even say EarthBound is a crappy game, but an amazing experience.
 
Well, not mine, the thing I work on at the job
 
@CatPlusPlus oops
are you going to get in trouble? :>
 
5:59 PM
Some bullshit about Facebook login
 
EarthBound's gameplay I can see as actually being pretty crappy. It's scrolling text, Roll-the-dice, with occasionally flashes and then shroom-trip specials.
 
Yep. The last time I deleted a stack-based object, my dog got pregnant. — David Schwartz Aug 27 at 8:31
 
I have no idea why is that even a thing in this app
@melak47 No, but I'll have to debug and fix it
Of course
 
You can't even control how the specials play out.
No timed-hit Quirks like Mario RPG
 
Xeo
Wasn't EarthBound that game with the strange end boss that you could only kill by praying?
 

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