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5:00 PM
Which is useless, because the application is useless, yes, I agree on that point.
 
@Pawnguy7 Is this snake?
 
@Griwes 'the application'? now who is being abstract
 
lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes
 
How about increasing your opponent's speed as you progress? If you're faster, you can get places faster than your opponent, so you eat more, but that makes him faster in turn.
 
Xeo
5:01 PM
@Pawnguy7 Eh, you could easily force your opponent to crash I reckon
 
@Xeo that is the point
 
Anyway, I think that we already agreed on the most important point - the program is useless and the hierarchy is ultimately retarded.
 
It is more... Tron-like.
 
Xeo
Also, wheee, home
 
Unless
They play side-by-side in two different levels?
 
Xeo
5:02 PM
@Pawnguy7 Ah. Actually, I remember doing first Snake then Tron on the PSP during lectures.
 
Coop snake
1.5 hours to food :<
 
Hm?
Anyway, I was trying to come up with ideas of how to do it.
And... avoiding a situation where you can suicide to win.
 
ruby is just plain stupid
it dsnt even have basic string formatting functions.
 
Xeo
Uhm
 
It is stupid, but that's not the reason
 
5:10 PM
 
@CatPlusPlus Could the real reason be summed up as, "It's a programming language"?
 
Note: you may suffer hearing problems after this.
 
@caps No
 
Well, not really. It just sounds bad.
 
Xeo
5:11 PM
@CatPlusPlus Also, string interpolation and "%s blah" % "blub" (or was it ["blub"]?) ?
 
All those dynamic languages have string interpolation. Only python strikes me as going beyond the naivest thing that could work
 
Ruby has string interpolation built-in as "foo ${x}", no?
 
$ irb
irb(main):001:0> x = 17
=> 17
irb(main):002:0> "foo #{x}"
=> "foo 17"
irb(main):003:0>
@GamesBrainiac So... WTF are you complaining about?
 
Xeo
So yeah, conclusion: @GamesBrainiac is just plain stupid. :P
 
5:14 PM
Not that many languages have string interpolation
But string interpolation is not really formatting either
 
Or, what I could do is.
Have no food at all, starting at some bigger size.
 
@Xeo % operator is Python, I don't think Ruby does that
 
So the only objective is to kill each other.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Arrite, do this in Ruby: '-------hello--------'
 
5:15 PM
Because in pythin its as simple as this:
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus According to this, it does
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus it does.
 
>>> "{0:-^20}".format("hello")
'-------hello--------'
 
Oh well
 
@GamesBrainiac Arguably, that is a wrongful feature
 
5:16 PM
@Pawnguy7 I don't know what I was expecting but that is pretty nice. Some parts didn't seem particularly fit together though
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus And everybody totally knows what that is gonna produce!
 
@Jefffrey I have no musical talent whatsoever.
This was basically random note placement in Anvil Studio.
 
user1804599
I read that as “muscular talent.”
 
@sehe says the polar bear who's face-palming himself :P
 
@GamesBrainiac Also, since Ruby doesn't have esoteric formatting modifier X (that only Python has) - it has no string functions
 
5:16 PM
It does have some issues there, yes.
 
@sehe see, how superior python is :)
 
Xeo
Stop fanboying, seriously
 
@GamesBrainiac shut up
 
Of all the bad things about Ruby, you picked a complete non-issue to complain about
 
user1804599
Only Perl has x operator so Perl is best language.
 
5:17 PM
Congrats
 
@rightfold Python does that too, right? But generalized for sequences, IIRC
 
but you still can't do that with sprintf, can you?
 
user1804599
@sehe Noo, that’s *!
 
@GamesBrainiac Arguably better: "hello".center(20, '-')
 
@rightfold hihi
 
5:17 PM
Surprisingly, the Ruby form is more readable than Python.
(Btw, you can google shit about Ruby before you complain)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That is better
 
Formatting like that isn't very common anyway
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Don't tell him. We don't want to cause another ruby fanboy
 
@Jefffrey see my musings on multiplayer?
 
Xeo
We should add a rule about not bashing languages if you know nothing about them
 
5:19 PM
I'm fine with less people crowding my complainspace
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes where did you find that?
 
@Xeo We should have a rule about not opining about things you know precisely zilch about. Not just bashing
 
@Pawnguy7 That sounds like a good idea :D
 
@GamesBrainiac The docs for String.
 
@GamesBrainiac GOOGLE
 
5:20 PM
@Jefffrey the kill each other part?
 
I know, who would have guessed.
$ irb
irb(main):001:0> %(look, with interpolation too #{"hello".center(20, "-")})
=> "look, with interpolation too -------hello--------"
irb(main):002:0>
@Xeo There should be a rule about not making me take a stand on the side of something I dislike.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You got lucky there, considering Ruby love for open classes shit
 
Xeo
hehe
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I do that for Java lately
 
5:22 PM
@Pawnguy7 Yes, that is a good idea and I believe there already is a game like that, but it doesn't sound much "Snake-like".
 
I think it was also @GamesBrainiac who complained about some utter non-issue
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You took a stand for open documentations and search indexes!
 
What a coincidence
 
People come in the lounge, see everything getting bashed, and mistakenly surmise that bashing anything is the goal here.
Understandable but... hilarious mistake
Let's bash directionless bashers for a while
 
@sehe People are a lot less apt to object to positive-sounding opinions though, even if they are uninformed. Besides, if you only let people opine on things subjects of which there weren't ignorant, some of us would never get to say anything.
 
5:25 PM
Hello, Cruel World!
 
Ell
People enjoy saying what they don't like more than what they do, that is the problem
 
I stay quiet in here because I know I'm ignorant about most topics of discussion.
 
@Ell Maybe that's not a problem at all.
I'm more interested in what people don't like than what they do like.
 
@Jefffrey That's useful, but I think I might feel the opposite, not sure yet.
I'm learning a lot by following discussions (and links) here, but I don't want to pick up the "all programming is awful and there is no good programming language" mentality because it seems kind of toxic to me--at least in the extreme.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes heh, funny. I found it on a Microsoft site.
 
5:27 PM
I also like getting excited about programming and programming concepts.
 
I think the main reason I did not find it is because I was looking into how sprintf was doing it, and not looking into the string class
 
@caps There's no such a thing here. You may be mistaken with the "all programming is awful except Haskell and maybe Python" mentality.
 
@Ell Meh. I think it's fine to say "I like X", and "I don't like X". Saying "X doesn't have Y like Z" when X has easily-discoverable Y better than Z is just FUD.
 
@Jefffrey true. How would I make it snake-like though?
 
@Jefffrey Maybe. Maybe not.
 
5:30 PM
lol
 
@GamesBrainiac In the interest of full disclosure, the Google query I used was "ruby string formatting center".
 
Center cannot hold
 
@caps So the opinions of 3 people reflects the opinions of everyone in the lounge?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes so you knew. Come on man, I did not know about it, I was reading through all of the sptrinf documentation :P
 
@caps There are non-bad tools, but they're in minority, and ultimately software and hardware is unreliable shit
 
@GamesBrainiac No, he didn't know, that's why he used Google
 
@Code-Guru I read a lot more here about how various languages and their features are awful than I ever do about how any feature is good.
 
@Jefffrey similar yes. That is kind of like a curvy variant of Tron
 
@GamesBrainiac I didn't know. I just typed relevant search terms to find out if you were right.
I never used Ruby.
 
@Pawnguy7 that is actually pretty enjoyable. I used to play that with some friends some boring nights.
 
5:34 PM
@JerryCoffin That's the point :)
@CatPlusPlus lol - dat pun
 
Hmm, it sucks because I went diving in sprintf instead of checking the string class. A mistake I shall not repeat. Still sucks though :(
 
@GamesBrainiac you suck
 
hurr durr famous last words
Habits die hard
 
@sehe Sounds like an uninformed opinion to me...
 
I took me some years of just filtering the internet before I got really apt at searching. Hint: try +"keyword" and -"keyword" in google
@JerryCoffin That in itself is uninformed (and there's a bit more merit to my claim there :))
 
Ell
5:40 PM
I do like ruby
 
@Code-Guru I can state for a fact that no, it does not. Compared to when I started, the vast majority of current languages are really quite awesome. Although I don't bother arguing every time people say negative things, the reality is that most of them are plenty good enough to write cool stuff, and do it pretty well if you're willing to do your part. People tend to exaggerate both good and bad. The good (even Haskell) aren't quite as good as some imply.
11
On the bad side, well, PHP honestly is about as bad as people like to say. Most others really aren't though.
 
@JerryCoffin well put
 
@sehe To be honest, I find most things I want without any of that :|
@JerryCoffin Blasphemy!
 
Laughing at bad shit has more comedy value than praising good shit
 
@JerryCoffin lol
php the only exception
 
5:43 PM
I don't like the notion of "good enough", unless it's about sending Kerbals into space
 
@CatPlusPlus In that case "bad enough" works too.
 
@Jefffrey yes, that was why i wanted it
 
Me too. But my hint is for the novice.
By actively testing the feedback with this kind of selection, you get a feel of what keywords ACTUALLY work, after which you know what to _positively_ specify (so you end up not requiring tricks)
 
People go all hurr durr Java's bad, when there's so many worse things
Like any language using weak typing
 
@CatPlusPlus php.
 
thats the only language I know of
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hardly the first time I've been accused of that.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit That's daknok wearing a wig? (to the left)
 
5:45 PM
Yes
 
Hmm, debugging our text rendering.
 
@CatPlusPlus "Good enough" is all there is, and all there ever will be though. Perfection is achieved only on the point of collapse (and really, not even then).
 
@JerryCoffin That's why I don't like this stuff!
 
if you like Doctor Who images, there's also this
 
5:47 PM
C is a weakly typed language?
 
Yes
C's type system is so primitive it might as well not be there
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit She is such a good-looking woman. The prettiest companion (that I've seen).
 
@GamesBrainiac C is very inconsistently typed--an unpredictable mixture of strong and weak.
 
Generally speaking is Dynamic + Weak Typing a recipe for disaster?
 
5:50 PM
@JerryCoffin C is mixed-typed :P
 
C is shit-typed. You put broken shit together, until you reach a critical mass of bugs and then you can release
 
I'd prefer to express it as fucked-typed.
 
If C is weakly typed, does that make C++ also weakly typed?
 
@GamesBrainiac It depends on the intent. At least IMO, it can work reasonably for tiny scripts, but scales poorly. Just for example, AWK can work pretty well for a few lines, but I certainly wouldn't want to write anything very big in it.
 
Xeo
0
A: C++11 lambda ambigious

Matt ClarksonSo to find the type of the lambda, this worked: #include <iostream> #include <functional> #include <type_traits> template<typename T> struct functor_param; template<class R, class C, class T> struct functor_param<R (C::*)(T)> { typedef T type; }; template<class R, class C, class T> struct...

 
5:51 PM
@DeadMG That's too difficult to say, 'shit-typed' is better.
 
Xeo
GAGBAUAGÜBÄAIGOHÜ
 
@GamesBrainiac Not to the same extent.
 
@GamesBrainiac The parts that it inherited from C, yes.
but that's not really a dominant part of the C++ type system.
 
Xeo
(Ha, relevant even, because his code is fucked because of implicit conversions)
 
@GamesBrainiac Somewhat, but less
@Xeo Heh
 
5:52 PM
@GamesBrainiac C++ is more of the same: an unpredictable mixture of weak, strong, and (mostly not present in C) a few that are somewhere in between (e.g., contextual conversion to bool).
 
@Xeo How many of these a day show up?
 
Implicit conversions are so useful!
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't even want to count
 
@DeadMG Even that part is strengthened (see pointer conversions)
 
Xeo
But I have a feeling that fighting the torrent won't really work.
 
5:53 PM
How do you fight it?
 
user1804599
I like array-to-pointer decay in C.
 
@JerryCoffin I think contextual conversion feels like a strongly-typed feature to me.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Explaining people that what they're doing is wrong.
 
Does it work?
 
@JerryCoffin I see. I've never used AWK, so I can't really relate. But its interesting to know.
 
Xeo
5:54 PM
Apparently not :/
 
@Xeo D'aww
 
@DeadMG It's stronger than allowing implicit conversion in general, but clearly weaker than not allowing an implicit conversion at all.
 
I still classify that as weak typing
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Eh, I'd personally like it better if it was along the lines of if (blah?)
 
hmm
 
user1804599
5:54 PM
New Minecraft terrain generator is great.
 
I'm less sure about subtyping stuff
 
Xeo
@rightfold amplified, baby!
 
user1804599
@Xeo meh. :P
 
well, I feel that it's pretty explicit that if you write if (x) you mean for x to be treated as a boolean value.
 
user1804599
I like the new orange sand.
 
5:55 PM
some of the other cases like x || y I'm not so sure about.
 
user1804599
And the flowers make the world so much less flat and boring.
 
since arguably you could overload || to have some other meaning.
 
@JerryCoffin So are weakly typed and strongly typed extremes rather than actual traits?
 
@GamesBrainiac No, it's either strong or not
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Fuck overloading! :D
 
user1804599
5:56 PM
Oh hey wild watermelons.
 
lollerskates
 
Though I'd use semi-strong/semi-weak also for stuff like subtyping or maaaybe bool coercions, since they don't fuck as much with expectations, but are still not strong
Maybe
 
@Xeo I don't even know how to do that anymore.
 
nope I feel pretty good about operator overloading.
 
This is my CS
Take it as you will
@DeadMG I prefer type classes approach instead of open overload sets
The rules are so much simpler
 
5:58 PM
what are the rules for Haskell's type classes?
 
All I can think of when I open that comment box is: "STOP DOING THIS SHIT THIS IS JUST WRONG NO YOU DON'T WANT A TRAIT TO GET A FUNCTION'S NIPPLE SALADS I WANT TO LIVE IN A CASTLE BUILT OF YOUR AGONY AND TO CRUMBLE IT WITH AN AXE TO YOUR CAROTID ARTERY"
 
I.e. overloading via constraints on polymorphic types
 
Ah, been a while since I did that.
 
@CatPlusPlus Interesting. Also, I found out today that you can have lazy evaluation in Scala if you want it.
 
hmm.
 
5:59 PM
@GamesBrainiac You can pretty easily write explicit rules about exactly what each means, if you want, but if we look at languages in general, we see a continuum from stronger to weaker. Worse, "weak typing" is usually a poorly-defined expression of distaste.
 
Wide doesn't even have polymorphic types.
 
@DeadMG When he says "polymorphic types" he doesn't mean the virtual shits.
 
I know.
 

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