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5:00 PM
and it doesn't adequately consider the difficulty of writing good tests
 
UI tests are easy to do
 
Whoosh.
 
its called release your product and wait for complaints
 
How about before building the UI?
 
easiest way to find bugs
 
5:01 PM
ba dum tiss
facepalm
you can't really apply TDD to a UI because of all the small decisions made during the creation of the UI itself
 
@Squiggle Nothing in that scenario, but it's not actually getting the dates (I'm using some more adventurous internal types relative to our application, but dates were a good abstracted example)
 
You can a little
with tools like blend
 
well yeah, but that's still a stretch
I guess I'm still approaching this from the agile mentality of get something done first
it's hard for me to mock up UIs other than in raw HTML anyway
when it comes down to testable details, it gets to the point of, are you wasting time writing a UI twice?
 
TDD is all about thinking you are a better programmer
 
use Blasmiq for prototypes
 
5:04 PM
fair enough
there are definitely mockup tools that can be used to provide a TDD shop with the ability to smash a model to bits before building UIs
however, the real nasty part for TDD is legacy code work.
If you inherit a body of code that doesn't have tests written, TDD just kinda shrugs its shoulders.
 
Mmmh I'm impressed
 
Three of the four software development jobs I've worked have dealt with me inheriting a legacy code base without existing tests.
What does TDD propose that I do moving forward, in order to get the existing code to work?
Agile says divvy it up and fix piece by piece.
 
Are we going to experience a backlash against the camp that promotes writing tests before the code
 
Probably not; I'm just pointing out some areas where TDD falls short
I love TDD for new software development
if you can start writing an application and have unit tests already there, go for TDD
but if you're strapping into an existing product's lifecycle, chances are it won't work
 
<- Proudly not doing TDD since 1998 :D
 
5:10 PM
That being said, a company can't just say that they're agile when they don't adhere to the tenets of the manifesto.
That is why Agile is dying.
 
I've never been indoctrinated into the TDD cult
 
agile is agile
watch the vid
 
can't; no headphones
I'm between pairs at the moment
 
Agile is dying because scrum masters
 
isn't one of the core principles that Agile teams are self-organizing?
If there's a permanent Scrum Master, that's not really self-organizing
 
5:12 PM
"Agile" around my place has died because developers like to say "We'll release the code as a story for this iteration, QA can have a story to test it next iteration".
 
I'm glad to say that at my current "Agile" job, we actually use a kanban board
 
For virtually every new feature or bugfix.
 
I don't do meetings / boards / scrum / post its / documentation
 
At my last job, the boss opaquely managed all project progress
no one saw what anyone else was working on
and the boss assigned all issues
he also had some ridiculous expectations on timeframe for issues
You're fixing some links? That can take a week.
 
Sounds like an idiot :D
 
5:14 PM
You're refactoring the search and product detail system into a new lib? That can take three weeks.
 
@Shotgun Are you saying that there are bosses without ridiculous timeframe expectations?
I thought it was just a managerial prerequisite.
 
@Sidney No, I'm just saying the one I had was inflexible and horridly misappropriated the term Agile.
I say nothing for or against anyone else, I'm just recounting my own anecdotal experience.
 
Anybody familiar with log4net?
 
ya have used it
 
I'm having an issue that's apparently very common but so far nothing I've found has been really helpful. It's either not logging when deployed or logging to a weird spot
Works exactly as expected locally
 
5:25 PM
Weird spot? where the Log is being created? or what is logging
 
Does your server configuration override the log4net properties at all?
 
That's the thing, it's not being created as near as I can tell, but there seems to be a possibility that its being logged somewhere relative to IIS.
@ShotgunNinja I doubt it unless someone snuck in and started changing server configs over the weekend
 
Eliminate the possibility
 
At this point I can't tell if it's a debug/release setting, an IIS issue, or log4net is just broken since it fails silently by design
 
7
A: Where will log4net create this log file?

Oladipo Olasemoit will create the file in the root directory of your project/solution. You can specify a location of choice in the web.config of your app as follows: <appender name="RollingLogFileAppender" type="log4net.Appender.RollingFileAppender"> <file value="c:/ServiceLogs/Olympus.Core.log" /> ...

Might this answer help?
I'm really not a .NET guy, I really only spend time in here for socialization
 
5:29 PM
Yeah, looked at that. That's how it works locally. Doesn't appear to do anything when released
 
Do you have access to the filesystem of your IIS server?
 
Yes
 
do a full filesystem search, lol
idk, going to lunch
 
@CuddleBunny Yeah that sounds the "most proper", but a maintenance headache
 
5:38 PM
@mikeTheLiar make sure your app pool identity has read/write access to the log folder
 
5:50 PM
@MikeAsdf if you forsee it, you can also release v1 of your app with a check for api changes and show a popup with a link to the app store instead of the default functionality
 
haha log4net
i hate that trash
so many problems
 
Good lunch?
 
6:05 PM
Seafood gumbo and a ham-bacon-ranch salad
because CBR is so yesterday
got to watch some CNN
turns out they fired the chief of police in chicago
 
that's some luxury level of high cholesterol for me lol
 
i had a burrito
 
I'm 24 and I still have my metabolism mostly intact
 
the guy behind the counter was high af
 
loooool
 
6:06 PM
put so much stuff on it
could hardly wrap the thing
i love that guy
 
that Upstate NY pastime
 
posted on December 01, 2015 by Bertrand Le Roy

This is our first "The Week in .NET" post. Our objective in writing this is to provide more regular updates about what the team and core contributors have been working on, and to give a community heartbeat, in the form of a list of interesting links. Of course, if you wrote a great blog post, or just read one, if you want to show a great new contribution, if you've written a useful library, we'

 
hey man
 
if weed was legal recreationally i would have it every day
 
6:07 PM
damn straight
same here
Milwaukee is a pretty good place for that kind of stuff
especially my neighborhood
 
Could be the same on every street in the state?
 
when the central gathering place of your neighborhood looks like this:
 
lol
 
yes, those are stoops out in front
 
Yep, use to have a coffee shop here the Metro was in the first floor of an old hotel
The did shows when I was a teen ager
 
6:11 PM
dude, Milwaukee's got the largest population of weirdos per capita of any city I've seen outside of maybe Austin and Portland
and Brooklyn
 
Ha they made a documentry
 
hey kids
@ShotgunNinja Capital Hill in Seattle has more weirdos, I guarantee it
 
I wouldn't doubt it
 
belltown too, probably...
 
Milwaukee hasn't embraced its own weirdness with a campaign yet
 
6:16 PM
it's a biscuit shop where they are bitches to you :)
 
I might just start that, actually
 
there's also Shorty's Pinball
 
just a giant collection of things that are weird and cool about Milwaukee
 
there's a few good barcades but not as many as you'd expect in Seattle
it might just be difficult to run a profitable one
 
I know I can start a new thing on Wordpress, so I might just do that
 
6:17 PM
eww, wordpress :P
 
yeah I know
but it's quick
and I already have one
 
Has anyone tried a (convertible) standing desk?
 
@Sidney I have one
It's really slow to convert however, since it's done by hand
 
i was about the try that, but my monitors' cable are too short
 
I had to move my tower on to my desk for it to work
 
6:23 PM
@mikeTheLiar I almost 'your momd' that but then I realised I don't know who you are and it might be awks.
 
I'm not above a good yo mama joke.
 
@mikeTheliar Do you find it's really worth the hype?
 
It's not bad. I dunno if it's worth all the hype that it gets but it's kinda nice to be able to switch it up
 
@mikeTheLiar Good to know.
 
6:26 PM
Basically I would say that if you get a chance to have one go for it but I wouldn't worry too much about it either way
 
There's one on CL here for 1/4 of the price (which is still a hefty chunk of change), I think I'll go for it.
 
Otherwise you'll never know, right?
 
@Sidney yes, it's 100% worth it
 
Pretty much. I know that when I moved from my college job (Quick Oil Change) to sitting 8 hours a day, I've definitely noticed that transition.
 
mine is counterweighted so it's a one hand, 2 second process to move it up or done
I'd pay $1k for an easily convertible standing desk
 
6:29 PM
Haha I fucking wish
Mine is a solid 3-4 minutes to switch
 
@Sidney is it a cantilevered one or a crank one? the cantilevered one is nice
yeah, mine's a nice steelcase one
 
It's a Varidesk, it kind of works on a z hinge.
 
Once in a while, visual studio likes to pretend that when I press the "home" key, I want to go to the first document tab, rather then the start of the line.
And same but conversely with the "end" key.
 
150% worth it. it's steelcase so you'll never have to replace it
 
@MikeAsdf Are you pressing any modifiers?
 
6:31 PM
@MikeAsdf sometimes "ctrl" gets "stuck" in Windows
you can unstick it by pressing ctrl shift alt at the same time, usually
 
@Sidney I don't think so. Ctrl home should go to top of document though, not a different document.
 
especially if you have sticky keys enabled
 
I just tried all 8 combinations of ctrl+alt+shift with home, and I'm unable to do a document switch at will.
 
Me either. Unable to replicate. Even tried pg-up/pg-down
 
I found this ancient report on unresponsiveness, where someone said "the only keys that work are the Home and End keys. They toggle back and forth from my first tab to the last tab". connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/641783/…
so it's like my VS goes into a similar state, but only for a second
I can't even assign home or end without modifiers as keyboard shortcuts.
 
6:35 PM
That's weird, I'm able to reproduce the END behavior at will by pressing ctrl+shift+alt+end, but no the home behavior.
 
(I was hoping to see a "conflicts with" message, indicating what the tab-switching action is called)
 
Ok, there it is. I'm pressing ctrl+alt, and press the home or end key.
 
wtf I just tried all atrl+shift+alt and I'm able to replicate at will, now causing me to disbelieve my earlier experiment and perceptions of reality
 
And pg up/down cycle
 
There's nothing currently using those shortcuts though
 
6:39 PM
Sometimes I think Visual Studio tries to hard to have a hotkey for everything.
 
It can be hard to find a key not in use
 
I honestly don't understand their debugging shortcuts sometimes. Like, why do I need two keys to step out?
 
Visual Studio is the best IDE anyone could ever wish to use for anything that involves the use of massive frameworks
 
^ best IDE so far. be greedy, it can be better
 
still best for now though
 
6:48 PM
best at long load times and MAX_PATH errors too...
 
VS could do more shit in background threads instead of locking up the UI thread.
Anything that delays the characters I type from appearing on the screen is hitleresque.
Now, resharper is likely to blame for a large portion of that
 
@MikeAsdf Lot of that is crap knowing its a WPF app
 
no worries, every new version of vs is just like a general migration of some beloved resharper feature. sooner those jetbrain guys will run out of ideas
 
hey guys got a question
Any ASP.NET MVC2 developers around here?
I know this room is about C# but who knows, also most ASP.NET developers are C# developers in a way
 
@SantLev This is probably the best room for that topic, yeah.
 
6:59 PM
MVC2 ?
 
juan do you speak spanish?
 
errrrrrr
 
7:15 PM
@SantLev No
 
hello, i wonder how to send a message from application console to the view? any idea ?
 
@moji Console.WriteLine(Message); need some more context?
That MVC app? you can put it ina ViewBag and get it to the view from the controller
 
the idea is like that, send a message from the console then show it on the view sorted by time stamp
but the thing is, should i save directly from the console to databse then send event to the view to refresh show message?
this is what i thought
 
@moji signalR
 
7:30 PM
the thing that iam having problem to understand how to send from console to webbrowser
i still dont get it
 
@ShotgunNinja have you been to Brenner's?
 
@Jeremy No, I haven't
 
@ShotgunNinja you shouuulllldddddddddd
 
will do
I just went to Lakefront Brewery for the first time on Sunday
that tour is the shit
 
Lakefront is pretty sweet
Yeah lol
Tour guides more charismatic than a GOP debate
 
7:36 PM
it was for my birthday, too, so I got to play the role of Bung Queen
 
Just Cause 3 is literally amazing
 
@ShotgunNinja sweeeeeet
I need to go back to that place, it's been a little while.
 
and they gave me extra tokens for free beer
I got pretty tipsy by the time I left
 
@ShotgunNinja Isn't it like $5 for the tour?
With 3 beers included?
 
7:37 PM
fuck, the "switch to last tab" happened again. even after I remapped ctrl+alt+shift+end to something useless
 
and 4 beers included
 
Still a great deal
lol, christ
and when I went they gave us extra during the tour
and gave us a free token too
MKE is my kind of place
 
then we took our free beer coupons and went to the Harley-Davidson Museum
and followed it up with a stop at Sobelman's
 
hey folks, anyone know how to add a blank line where the cursor is and move the current line down in VS?
in emacs its "open line" with ctrl + O
 
: linenumber
 
7:40 PM
Ok, so what happens is I type out a class name not referenced by the usings yet. I press alt+enter to bring up resharper's suggested actions. I press the down arrow key to select the "import type..." option. I press enter (just enter, no other modifiers). I quickly let go of enter. I press end. Fucking VS fucking switches fucking tabs.
 
wait thats vim
 
@Failsafe fk vim and what?
 
Like, during the duration that resharper is busy thinking about what I asked of it, my home and end keys become repurposed.
 
@Jeremy I'm putting together a list of weird and wonderful things in Milwaukee
if you can think of anything not on there, let me know
 
I wonder if this "TabSanity" extension is implicated in my woes: visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/…
 
7:47 PM
anyones know how to communicaite between console and c# app
 
@moji HttpClient, WCF, SignalR, raw TCP sockets, carrier pigeon, message queues
 
any article on how to use
i never worked with it
 
I'm sure there are.
 
Oh, I forgot named pipes
@moji Wait, what do you mean by "console"? What do you mean by "C# app"?
Are you just asking how to get input from the command line?
 
again here is what i mean
 
7:53 PM
Ok, so you have a console app, and a web site.
 
yes
 
I'd have the console app use HttpClient to send web requests (probably POST, not GET requests) to a particular URL.
 
@ShotgunNinja Haha, nice. Not sure I can be very helpful, though.
 
The web site would have to be programmed to look at the full request for that url (approach varies depending on WebForms vs. MVC), and parse the POST data.
Then, based on your chart, save it to database.
 
the request should be sent from the console to the web
thats what i dont understand
 
7:56 PM
@moji Yes, the console app would use HttpClient for that (as one option).
 
how to send the message from the console?
 
@moji he's just told you that twice. Use HttpClient (that's 3 times)
 
hahaha
i see it now
bad connection
i got the messages now
 
8:16 PM
somebody made a video about me! youtube.com/watch?v=WMtRgR4WfEM midwestern pipelayer! :D
 
Sometimes I wonder about VS. It's taking more time to undo pending changes than it would take me to just nuke the project folder and download from TFS.
 
Yep. Everything sucks. Get used to it.
 
@TomW =D
 
Do you guys use any ruler/tool during your day to day ui development?
Like if two objects on the view are misaligned
and i want to know the difference in their heihts
etc
in pixels
how can i find out?
 
8:27 PM
I'd just look at the markup and compare the locations
 
@Obviously heh... I usually take a screenshot and then draw a vertical line in paint
Or other paint magic
There's probably a better way, but I don't need to do it often enough to find out
 
Guys have a query regarding chained payment system in mvc
can anybody help me?
???
0
Q: How to Use PaymentAction in paypal adaptive chained payment system in c#

yashI am working on MVC Project in which i need to use adaptive chained payment system with authorization and capture. Right Now, I am following this link:- https://xadaptivepayments.codeplex.com/ This code is working fine for transferring Payments in more than one account. But I don't know how ca...

 
@Obviously if it's on the web, in Chrome you can overlay rulers (FF too I think)
and a grid
 
8:44 PM
I'm having this weird problem with entities. I have a db view called viewNoteContent referenced in an edmx file. When I try to use it, I get an error: Method Not Found: get_viewNoteContent().
 
@Hypersapien are you doing model first or code first? I assume since it's a view you're doing model first?
 
Yeah. I created the view in the database, added it to the edmx, and now I'm trying to use it in code.
 
did you check to include views in your model?
you need to specifically add them
 
Can't tell if contributing to open source software in free time remedies workplace job frustration or aggravates it...
 
Yeah, there were already plenty of views in the model.
 
8:47 PM
@Hypersapien did you refresh the view?
 
I initially forgot to set Select permissions on the view in the database, but then I remembered and set them. I thought it might be that, but I've removed and re-added the view a couple times since then.
Refresh the view?
Trying it now.
 
refresh your EF edmx
 
Same thing. I didn't think you needed to refresh something immediately after adding it.
 
wait - is this a static error or a runtime error?
 
Runtime
 
8:50 PM
ah, ok
in my experience... your schema is wrong
 
define 'wrong'
 
I've had it happen before that your edmx is expecting a view with different schema
 
Well, the error is in the web service.
 
by the web service, you mean "the thing accessing the database", right?
 
Yes. Completely different Solution from the website project.
 
8:52 PM
yea, so you're just talking about a plain old error
 
@Codeman are you going to hawaii?
 
@Jeremy no, my GF cannot get any time off
she's quitting her shit job after xmas though
 
What is the benefit, besides update from database, of using an edmx over the code first from database?
 
@Failsafe you can't define sprocs or views in code first
(or at least, it's difficult and you have to run raw scripts and do a bunch of manual shit)
 
Ahh
I don't think i ever imported a stored proc..
 
8:54 PM
@Codeman Well you're the midwestern pipelayer, you can take over her shit job :D
 
>pipelayer
 
@Codeman Oh, here's something else. It says "A first chance exception of type 'System.MissingMethodException'"
 
@Hypersapien yeah. I would boot up SQL Profiler and see if there's any SQL actually being executed
 
I love sql profiler
what a great tool
 
indeed
it's a bit outdated, lol
 
8:59 PM
its like wireshark for sql
i've caught injections with that tool lol
 
I've learned many dirty things about our application from wireshark
:D
 
What people do with monitoring gets a little bit astonishing. At my last project, the hardware firewalls they were building were so sophisticated that they have an app store
They were talking about something that would inspect SOAP traffic as XML and run heuristics over it to figure out the semantic meaning of incoming calls
It's like...how much are you spending on that so it doesn't run like an absolute dog
Oh and by the way we designed it so that every PII-exposing service runs signed and encrypted with a list of known relying parties that only includes machines in the same fucking rack, how much 'security' do you want
 
ooo... I just realized I can get a big Xbox discount from the MSFT store, lol
 
@Codeman MSFT Xbox-related discounts are ridiculous
Check out the games
 
Well I can get a big your mom's box discount
2
 
9:09 PM
@Jeremy like?
 
@Codeman idk
I just remember when Xbox came out, a bunch of friends' parents talked about how Halo was <= $10 at the store
 
lol
Xboxes were selling at costco for like $285 yesterday
dunno how much the employee discount will be
 
9:23 PM
@Codeman what is your girlfriend going to do after her shit job?
 
@Codeman No, it's not hitting the view in the database at all.
 
9:58 PM
@Jeremy working on her portfolio so she can get a design job
 
@Codeman Nice. :)
 
It's not like I don't make enough money to support us both. Her minimum wage job is holding her back, she doesn't have enough energy to do anything productive after washing dishes 45 hours a week
 
She can design your software!
 
that's what I said!
 
Power couple!
 
9:59 PM
I said she should get good at web design then we can be a freelance power couple
lolol
 

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