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user559633
6:03 PM
dis("'1 a 2'.replace(' ', '')") is actually running and not just going to show me a print, right? (answer, yes. god i'm tired)
 
Hp palmtop 200LX. That's right, we still use one of those here
2mb RAM
 
DSM
2 MB RAM should be enough for anybody. #apocryphal
 
@davidism I've got the livecoding working
Who wants to watch me stream me talking on sopython? I BET YOU ALL DO RIGHT!? livecoding.tv/ffisegydd
 
DSM
Favorite Line of Code?!
 
I haven't filled all that rubbish out yet.
 
6:14 PM
I don't want to be able to associate real voices with users, the voices in my head are interesting enough.
 
So yeah, this is what sopython looks like from an ROs point of view.
 
cbg
 
Over to the left is all the bling.
 
DSM
Wait, if I plug my headphones into my computer, will I hear Fizzyish?
 
Can you hear me? I'm not actually speaking, that's the TV.
For any of you interested, this is how you kick someone, we'll experiment on.........tristan!
 
DSM
6:16 PM
This is the behind-the-scenes detail everyone's been hungry for!
 
I know right.
To the top of the screen you can see the SUPER SECRET RO ONLY TRELLO AND SLACK CHAT.
I won't be going there though and sharing all our secrets.
 
Man, this is one exciting stream. ;)
 
Especially not the secrets about the tristan's surprise party.
You want excitement!? I'll confirm the existence of the Dark Council!
 
Unfortunately, I can't learn about chat because "this stream is currently offline" every time I refresh.
 
DUN DUN DUN
wat? D:
 
6:18 PM
SPOOPY!
 
Same in FF, trying Chrome now
 
You mean all my top notch comedic work has been for nothing?
 
DSM
I've been enjoying it.
 
Not getting any sound in chrome
 
I can see it fine in Chrome.
Yeah, I don't get sound either.
 
6:18 PM
I was going to say it was my network, but I guess it just the beta blues.
 
All these jokes will be lost in time like tears in rain
 
I came to know that you have a Dark Council :P
 
Oh, I saw it in chrome for a second but then it went back offline
 
Well...I confirmed the existence of the DC...so...
 
DSM
Ehh, you probably faked it to draw eyeballs.
 
6:19 PM
There is no Dark Council.
 
LiveStream may have a viewer cap
 
...9?
 
Anyway stream is over now as I don't want you to find out my secret fan fiction alias.
 
Can't deny that fact now :)
 
DSM
At only 9?
aaahhh my eyes
 
user559633
 
I'll try it later today, might be a good excuse to try working on the SE shanty some more.
 
I actually write sopython fan fiction.
You can't imagine some of the ships I've got going on.
 
I strongly do not want to know.
That piece of knowledge is an anti-meme. If I learn it, I will endeavor to forget, and seek to prevent its transmission.
 
That's exactly something that you'd say to <REDACTED> in my fictions.
 
I have thought about doing streaming but I fear they'll tell me I'm doing it wrong.
Coding, not streaming.
Look at this scrub, not using Flurzy.io, how can he call himself experienced.
 
DSM
6:25 PM
I'm not sure I'd want someone to see how the sausage gets made. Or maybe it would encourage newbies: "hey, this guy just randomly tries things until one works too!"
 
Now that I've typed that out, that's pretty obviously impostor syndrome at work. It's easier to notice when it isn't swirling around in my head
 
I think it definitely could be interesting, I'd definitely watch davidism doing SE shanty for example.
 
I actually finished writing the api docs scraping recently, so now I'm trying to autogenerate all the code.
 
hi, how to increment the character in the string by 3, example 'ABcdm' to 'DEfgp'
 
Don't autogenerate all the code, you'll put us out of jobs
 
6:29 PM
One of the things that the article brought up was that in tutorials it's very clean cut and there's no "going from A to F via B, C, D, X, Y, Z, Ü, and E" which you typically find in normal programming.
 
@dilipyadav what happens to "z"?
 
DSM
@dilipyadav: first you need to finish specifying the problem. What happens
 
@DSM too slow!
 
DSM
@davidism: that's KEVIN'S JOB!
 
@dilipyadav you've already asked this once today.
I gave you a link to my question/answer.
 
6:29 PM
@davi z to c
 
@dilipyadav The term "Caesar cipher" may help you in your research.
Questions involving it have been asked many many times on SO, so there should be plenty of examples you can refer to
 
DSM
@Kevin: pet peeve -- going to a restaurant and seeing "Ceasar [sic] salad" in the menu.
 
(most of them are bad examples, but meh)
 
17
A: adding all the letters of a string up by 1 python

FfisegyddYou can use translate to directly change a letter to a different letter: try: from string import makestrans except ImportError: maketrans = str.maketrans from string import ascii_lowercase #old = 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ' #new = 'bcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzaB...

Yet another shameless plug is shameless -___-
 
@dilipyadav What happens to unicode snowman?
 
6:31 PM
@Ffisegydd sorry my laptop shuts down due to battery problem
 
Unicode snowman moves forward three seasons to Unicode puddle
 
@dav
 
@Kevin the true tragedy of this whole event
 
@davidism
A → D M → P X → A
a → d m → p x → a
 
☃ → ???
 
6:33 PM
UnicodeSnowmanException("not supported")
 
;_;
 
No one supports the unicode snowman, he's all on his own.
 
He's a strong independent snowman that don't need no man
3
 
DSM
Say rather everyone supports the Unicode snowman. It's our friendship that brings him to life!
 
z snap
 
6:35 PM
   _[_]_
    (")
`--( : )--'
  (  :  )
""`-...-'""
 
user559633
I don't want to link to the question, but this is one time that I might get sad if someone responds with "i'm using python 3"
 
@Ffisegydd Voting to re-open that
 
Why?
 
It is a good question and is a frequent Question. It may be the dupe target of many future ones.
 
Just because it's closed doesn't mean it can't be a dupe target, but whatever you want mate.
 
6:38 PM
IKR. :)
 
The Unicode Snowman? There's a caret joke in there somewhere.
 
:-)
 
Seems they've rejected Greece's bailout.
 
Well, I just sent an invoice to craigslist instead of a client. Stupid autocomplete.
 
I've watched a few code streams in my life but I never found them super interesting... Not sure if I picked less-than-stellar videos or I just don't like the genre.
Maybe there's more novelty if you know the host.
 
6:43 PM
I think it'd be interesting, like a lot of streams, if they narrate it.
 
@Ffisegydd i got the Solution
 
If it's just someone coding then yeah that's boring, unless you decide to slam them and their code :P
 
Narrating and coding sounds tricky... I don't know if I can engage the "speech" and "thinking about class diagrams" sections of my brain at the same time
 
Just describing what you're doing and what you're thinking.
Kinda stream of consciousness.
 
user559633
is "it's faster because this C function runs faster than this other C function in this scenario" a valid answer?
 
6:49 PM
It's the kind of answer that leaves me thinking there's a more satisfying explanation.
 
"This C function compiles to this assembly code, which runs in X CPU cycles, compared to..."
 
You can get to nuggets of wisdom without going full assembly. "C strlen() is going to be slow on a whole file because...", or "Floating point division is generally slow", &ct.
 
user559633
@QuestionC Yeah, same, but it's a python question and i linked to the two relevant functions. My stopping point was kind of based on Kevin's comment
 
I always thought it'd be fun to livestream programming challenges, but the demand isn't particularly high
 
user559633
@MarcusStuhr a room full of people whiteboarding for 2 hours, then staring at monitors for 10 hours, getting a bit drunk, then staring a monitors for 10 hours?
 
6:58 PM
Well when you put it that way...
 
user559633
i worked at a computer with a hackathon and recruiting shot a video
 
(more seriously though, I mean monitor + mic capture).
And ideally with decent narration
 
user559633
they ended up just using the footage of the non-tech people "hacking"
 
user559633
because it was whiteboards and motion and getting really excited over diagrams. the kind of stuff that non technical people think that thinking looks like
 
I saw a video of a guy who is one of the best programming competition people in the world. It was actually kind of neat because he didn't seem to think about the problems to solve them. Just read them and started coding in a logical way.
 
user559633
7:01 PM
@QuestionC yeah because he practiced his approaches :)
 
DSM
@tristan: did the diagrams point to "let's not have performance reviews!" with lots of happy arrows?
 
After a certain point, problems just become larger versions of problems you've already done before (so they already know what approaches to code to some extent / what pitfalls to avoid / etc)
 
user559633
@DSM hah you remembered. different company, but i'm still sour about that hackathon.
 
DSM
@tristan: that's a hard one to forget..
 
user559633
we did an OCR scanner + classifier for menus in 3 days how is that not a win
 
user559633
7:03 PM
i...i wrote an algorithm :[
 
What is this %timeit sorcery he's doing in that question? It doenst' work in my interpreter
 
ipython
 
hello
 
>>> import timeit
>>> %timeit s.replace(' ','')
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    %timeit s.replace(' ','')
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>>
 
@QuestionC use IPython
(and don't import timeit)
 
DSM
7:05 PM
As @Ffisegydd says, it's an IPython convenience. Among the reasons I use it.
 
only have one hand to type. had to keep short.
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd uhhhhhh, phrasing?
 
no phrasing. truth.
arm around fizzygirl, pervert.
 
user559633
oh hai fizzygrrl
 
You can't type the letter T with your right hand. That's a violation of good typing standards.
I'm going to write an angry letter about this!
"Dear editor, young people today have no respect for the ergonomic guidelines of their forefathers..."
 
7:12 PM
To which editor?
 
A simple solution would be physical barriers between the keys
@SomeGuy vi, I suppose, it does say "forefathers"
 
user559633
@SomeGuy Probably emacs if the complaint is about chording difficulties. (^T)
 
 
My general typing method would probably make you vomit then KevKev.
 
And never the two shall meet.
 
7:14 PM
I peck using just my index fingers (occasionally a middle finger if I'm feeling exotic (yes phrasing)).
 
I'm a WASD kind of guy
 
My fingers don’t have a specific rule on which is going to press which letter on the keyboard. My typing system is based on the normal 10-finger-thing but loosened up and improved (IMO) by flexibility.
 
My fingers naturally rest on WASD yeah.
 
I hunted and pecked up until senior year of high school, when I took a typing elective. Dull but extremely effective.
 
DSM
I can already type faster than I can think. Beyond that additional speed would only seem to get me in trouble.
 
7:16 PM
I'm a pretty damn fast typer, I could maybe be faster if I did the full method.
 
I'm slow for a programmer, quick for the average joe
 
It hurts me when I see colleagues being slowed down in their work because of their slow and broken typing system…
 
Playing word blaster with no possibility of distraction for forty minutes, three times a week, for three months, is a pretty good way to form the habit
We never quite got to the number row though so I have to look at the keys to type parentheses. Really puts a hamper on coding in the dark.
 
It's not like you're sitting filling tons of code into your editor
you usually think a lot, and type a little...
 
Ohh, word blaster, is that the game where you type words to kill asteriods? Haven’t played that in ages; link?
 
7:18 PM
I've got Typing of the Dead on Steam. It's "House of the Dead" but you type words to kill the zombies.
 
@Reut Yes, exactly. Thus it’s even more depressive when during that time where you actually need to type, your brain needs to wait for the fingers to finally finish those few words.
 
Typing of the Dead is great.
 
It's so good.
 
agreed
 
The word banks they use are supper weird too.
 
7:19 PM
I've got some of the DLC, I think one is a Shakespeare one.
I know one is from movies so it's movie quotes I think?
 
@poke My problem there is usually with the IDE. I'm currently using mostly eclipse since I now have a java job
 
Uhh, Java, my condolences.
 
I hate using graphical editors, but for Java they're easily more productive than any editor.
 
You mean for GUIs?
 
7:20 PM
Yeah
 
And I'm on a laptop balanced on one knee, I think in the past I've gotten 80-90 on a proper keyboard IIRC.
 
I used vi a lot for python, and pycharm had great support for vi. the eclipse plugin isn't as great
35 wpm :D
 
I love Baileys so much.
 
70 wpm. Prediction: DSM will get 69 wpm ;-)
 
83 WPM, and I was thrown off because I wanted to correct a word after pressing space… my mind automatically does that so when the thing doesn’t allow me to do it, I break.
 
7:24 PM
Shots fired by Kevin there.
 
I think my natural wpm is a bit higher than what was measured there on account of performance anxiety.
 
user559633
Your score: 411 CPM (that is 82 WPM). And I'm typoing like crazy today... I guess what I'm saying that maybe my job as a yahoo chat! cyber fantasy professional isn't as easy as you all thought.
 
55. Not terrible.
I'm also bad at dictation like that. I can type much fast when I'm just writing the words in my head.
 
Yea, typing "show head when solitare dawn silence when if" isn't something I would lose sleep over.
 
Yeah, the senselessness of the words doesn’t make it simpler :P
 
7:28 PM
I find I type faster when the sentence makes sense, rather than random words. No doubt the words are random to make it fairer.
 
But we should really do this with a pen writing on paper once. I imagine that we would get very diverse results. I haven’t written multiple words on paper for ages, I’m probably super slow..
 
Let's write a typing test site that uses a markov chain generator to make semi-coherent sentences, and which also follow the usual frequency of common words
 
I hate writing now -___- my writing was always bad, it's gotten to the point now that I'm like some ape holding a pen making marks and getting enraged.
 
To this day I chalk my math performance up to the annoyance of learning to write.
 
My dad has awful handwriting, so in youthful rebellion I cultivated a precise and clear style.
Although I've gotten a bit sloppy since then. Genetics! shakes fist
 
7:31 PM
"I'll show you Father, I'll be the most eloquent of them all!" "But...son...that's what I wanted all along..." "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"
 
Is there an easy way to read every other line of a text file? Can I just do
 
user559633
I overcame my poor penmanship when a rival calligraphy store moved to my hometown and threatened to displace me and my rag tag group of handwriting enthusiasts from our hangout spot unless we won a handwriting contest
 
I seem to recall islice accepting files or such?
 
file = open('file.txt', 'r')
for line in file:
    do_stuff(line)
    file.read()
 
7:35 PM
something like for line in itertools.islice(file, 0, None, 2)?
 
@Ffisegydd Ooh, even better. Thanks!
 
Yeah, that works.
I just tested it.
 
Typing of the Dead... now that is a game I have not heard for a long time. :O
 
It's a useful bit @Morgan as, iirc, you can't do for line in file[::2]. It does the same thing effectively.
 
7:40 PM
@Ffisegydd Yeah, I knew you couldn't slice a file. I was thinking there might be some ugly way with .seek() or .read(), but I like that itertools method much better.
 
Am I missing something on Creating a cross-platform GUI in Python 3.4? If you want a cross-platform app, why would you compile it into an exe?
I was under the impression that Mac and Linux can't run exes. Is that wrong?
 
user559633
Mac and Linux can't natively do exes, no.
 
Macs can't without emulation or such.
Macs have their own kinda version which is .dmg. It's actually a disk image but works (for the user) in the same way.
 
Macs can run .NET exes using Mono
 
Maybe OP means "I want it to be compatible between multiple computers, all of which run Windows, and none of which have python installed"
"By cross-platform I mean Windows 7, 8, and 10. You know... The important OSes"
5
 
7:50 PM
Don’t forget 9.
 
Can cx_freeze produce elf executables too?
I'd assume he decided to start with Windows and got stuck on the first speedbump.
 
elf? As in 11?
 
zwolf!
 
I guess it's possible that cx_freeze can compile to multiple target OSes.
 
elf executable = linux executable

And maybe OS X, I have no idea what you guys do.
 
7:53 PM
I know, let's specify a language that is compatible across many OSes. And we'll make it interpreted instead of compiled so we can dodge these thorny compatibility issues.
 
Like "My cross-platform CMake project isn't working". Even if I've only seen it not work on windows, I'm gonna blame myself here and not windows.
 
@QuestionC Is elf what comes out when I use gcc and stuff?
 
Yea, the elf is inside the executable. Moving the bits around and stuff.
 
interesting
 
7:54 PM
never knew it had a name
 
Real enthusiasts use gnomes ;-)
 
Actually, if you want to see some cool elf shit...
http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/
 
@Kevin Wow, I only just got that…
 
In my previous job, the boss had me embed versioning information in our binaries. Made for a fun week of googling.
 
re-cbg
 
7:59 PM
It's not a perfect reference since GNOME isn't pluralized.
 
@JoranBeasley django orm, lol. lol lol lol. Sorry but it is the part why I had to switch away from django, with all the others one can live with, but not with the orm.
it would be trivial to provide the django style filters on top of sqlalchemy orm though
 
yeah, there's even a post by zzzeek about it somewhere
 
8:20 PM
So there is a website called watchpeoplecode where you can watch people program like watching people play videogames on twitch. I might have to check that out
 
You missed me on livecoding.tv earlier.
 
I'm kinda curious about how much of the time is actually spend typing out code. Vs Googling and tabbed chatting
 
@Dracunos Personally? About 10/90.
 
That would be me on a good day
 
My ratio goes up considerably after hours.
 
8:27 PM
I did spend a lot of time trying to figure out what ANSI ASC X12 standards are, and why they're $2500.
 
I think I spend the most time just figuring out what the 'ell the users actually want
aside from magic
 
Is the answer ever NOT magic?
 
None of these streaming sites are working on my mobile :(
There we go, twitch works. I'm watching someone new working on codecademy
 
yes. Sometimes they want me to stand on my head to cast the spells
 
It's pretty painful to watch. And he's listening to bad music
 
8:36 PM
why would you want to watch someone code?
 
DSM
If someone were explaining things as he went along I could see how it might be helpful to learn a new pattern.
 
Well, maybe someone out there somewhere actually does code like they show on tv and just click clacks away really quickly and efficiently, like tv hackers
 
DSM
Huh. I was thinking exactly the opposite -- they'd have to be coding slowly enough so I could follow their thoughts.
 
I'd probably prefer just a prerecorded class for something like that
 
@DSM that's true but then I just need to see their screen :)
as long as they wear clothes
 
8:41 PM
Who the hell wears clothes while coding? Hah
 
user559633
"yeah so this is a list comprehension of lambdas that uses the visitor pattern"
 
We should force tristan to do all his coding on a live stream full of heckling viewers. Open mic
 
hmm...I wonder if watching someone code would provide for better knowledge retention due to the increased visual stimulation (cues)
 
8:58 PM
@davidism OP wants to spawn a multiprocessing pool within a Flask app. I said that’s a bad idea and likely to break, and something like celery should be used instead. Is that the correct advice?
 
Yeah, you should spawn it from a different controlling process, whether that be celery or your own code.
 
user559633
@Dracunos lol that would be amazing. I'm not even kidding, I'd have such a good time with that
 
@tristan "I've seen better factory methods in an actual factory!" "Your singletons are so big, you should call them doubletons!".
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp i actually laughed
 
@davidism Flask/WSGI things are spawned themselves in threads usually anyway, right?
 
9:03 PM
Scoping? 360 no scope!
 
user559633
i'm not the best coder, but i'm okay, constantly learning, and want to get better, so it would be amusing to have some crazy hyperbole going while i'm coding
 
@tristan "What is that? A list comprehension? More like a list incomprehension"
 
user559633
@poke uWSGI is configurable to start multiple processes and can be set to spawn a number of threads. When you connect Flask to uWSGI, uWSGI does all the concurrency handling
 
@poke yeah there's no guarantee on how many times the app/factory is imported/run in wsgi threads/processes. Easier to just run the background stuff separately.
 
@tristan Yeah, I know about uWSGI, but I’m wondering what the “default” is for such apps
 
9:05 PM
anyone goin to watch the leap second? :D
 
And the reloader during development could complicate it even more.
 
Okay, got it, thanks :)
 
user559633
@poke Oh, sorry. I didn't see that it was a response to an earlier comment until after I hit enter
 
@tristan :)
 
@AnttiHaapala Oh yeah, that's tonight, right?
 
9:05 PM
@AnttiHaapala When exactly is it going to happen?
 
user559633
8pm EDT
 
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 utc
 
nice
 
or 23.59.60 UTC :D
 
9:06 PM
so in 3 hours?
 
yea
dunno where to see it bc my linux does not obey leap seconds :(
 
Won’t be still awake then. I’ll celebrate it tomorrow by turning my clock forward by one second.
 
user559633
@poke LOL
 
That’s a long answer
Btw. you can remove the first part where you localize string.replace and string.translate because as the Python source code shows, it just delegates to the str methods replace and translate which is what OP was using to begin with :P
 
user559633
9:17 PM
@poke Yeah, I did that as a stream of consciousness as I learned what it was actually doing.
 
user559633
I mention later in the post that the above was a lie, but I didn't want to take it out because it would make the inspect.getsourcefile useless, which I wanted to keep in because it seemed like the user was learning how to profile/debug python
 
@tristan hem, you'd want to remove your dis code :D
>>> dis.dis("\0\6\6\6")
          0 STOP_CODE
          1 <6>
          2 <6>
          3 <6>
dis.dis if given a bytes, thinks it is bytecode
 
user559633
where do you see that?
 
in your answer
dis("'1 a 2'.replace(' ', '')")
dis(x=None)
Disassemble classes, methods, functions, or code.
if given a string, it does the last one
>>> def foo():
...     '1 a  2'.translate(None, ' ')
...
>>> dis.dis(foo)
  2           0 LOAD_CONST               1 ('1 a  2')
              3 LOAD_ATTR                0 (translate)
              6 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
              9 LOAD_CONST               2 (' ')
             12 CALL_FUNCTION            2
             15 POP_TOP
             16 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
             19 RETURN_VALUE
 
user559633
Oh, thank you.
 
user559633
9:27 PM
I figured that was the case, but tested it with a different string and didn't get that behavior -- or rather saw different output.
 
all in all, these happen in C, and you'd want to see them... but
they're pretty hard to read
 
user559633
cheers @AnttiHaapala
 
damn my wife woke up bc of your bell :D
forgot to mute computer
:D bed chat
 
That question btw, did you try running it on a string that isn't trivially short?
 
user559633
@QuestionC No, ran out of lunch hour
 
user559633
9:30 PM
from dis import dis
def dis_replace():
    '1 a  2'.replace(' ', '')

dis(dis_replace)

 3           0 LOAD_CONST               1 ('1 a  2')
          3 LOAD_ATTR                0 (replace)
          6 LOAD_CONST               2 (' ')
          9 LOAD_CONST               3 ('')
         12 CALL_FUNCTION            2
         15 POP_TOP
         16 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
         19 RETURN_VALUE
 
in any case, translate in python 3 is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery slow
 
user559633
looks better, yes?
 
and translate on unicode
 
@tristan wow nice job on that answer .... im curious as to total time that took to fully solve like that ? rather than my somewhat hand-wavy answer
 
yes it is better, but again the disassembly does not show any clue as to why which one is fast and which is not
@tristan noo
you're calling the func, and disassembling the string
 
user559633
9:31 PM
@JoranBeasley well seeing as i did a terrible muck up job
 
I just skimmed it but it looked really solid :P
 
user559633
that better now?
 
user559633
@JoranBeasley haha i only went into the question because your answer encouraged me to put in effort
 
oh so my answer is just totally wrong then?
bah humbug :P
(@AnttiHaapala )
 
user559633
What, no, your answer is better I think
 
9:34 PM
There's too much good churr in hurr. Despite the humbug
 
the case with .translate is that
it does not work similarly with str and unicode!
so if you pass in unicode string it will break
 
meh theres no unicode there is only cp1252
 
I was asked if I wanted to do C#/WPF
I said "Hell no".
 
user559633
Answer fixed. Thanks @AnttiHaapala @poke for making it better.
 
Any time
 
9:44 PM
any time = 23:59:60
 
user559633
that's coool
 
I lost my 1ml syringe :( now I have to use a 5
 
9:59 PM
overdose :D
 
DSM
5 times the juice (or insulin, or heroin, whatever.) Be careful!
 

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