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user559633
9:00 AM
just frustrating because both of my providers stopped working this morning and only one is back up now. if they drop, i'm pretty screwed because my phone tethers off wifi, so i'll just be incommunicado for work.
 
:D
you have work that you'll be incommunicado for
 
user559633
excited for google fi. they may snoop my data, but at least i'm sure it will be reasonable/predictable service.
 
user559633
@AnttiHaapala oof. got let go?
 
user559633
oh, i thought maybe someone left the door open and the company and all its assets literally froze (because finland is cold)
 
9:02 AM
I am trying to get consulting customers, but they're always got big plans, then the plans boil down to "we want this be done in 2 months"
 
Yeah getting new customers is a slog
 
user559633
@AnttiHaapala lol i've been there.
 
"can you do it"
"at what compensation"
"well, at X"
"no"
 
user559633
"yeah we're bleeding money so we built it into our contract that you must be able to prove your actions lead to revenue"
 
"can't you hire someone else too"
 
9:03 AM
Incidentally we have regular power cuts in SA, so last night I was in the dark for about an hour. Which was pretty short.
 
"not at that money"
 
As a comparison :)
 
I don't even remember when I've witnessed a power cut in finland
 
user559633
@RobertGrant regular power cuts? whoa. aren't you in johannesburg?
 
I only mention it because the power just went out at work, but the enormogenny just kicked in
 
9:03 AM
maybe more than 10 yrs
 
@tristan yep
 
same in ho chi minh during summers, so funny, they've got schedules "ok power will be cut here and there and there"
 
I've had a few (now regular clients) that have gone out and found "the cheapest deal"... and then come running back as "it doesn't work - fix it!"
 
Doesn't matter where you are, although one guy wrote an article about how he never gets them because he's on the same street as a senior government official
 
user559633
@RobertGrant isn't that a city of like a million people?
 
9:04 AM
@AnttiHaapala same, they call it load shedding
 
@JonClements never happens
 
@tristan 10 million I think
They don't cut it all at once
 
@RobertGrant this 1 customer has been wanting to do a solution to their project management needs for 2 years
now, they want the solution done in 2 months...
 
It's because the power infra has been massively undermaintained for the last couple of decades
 
but they WOULDN'T talk about it until after summer holidays
 
9:05 AM
@AnttiHaapala nothing like good management then? :p
 
user559633
@RobertGrant holy lol i can't believe that level of corruption and crappiness can exist at that scale
 
then they'll do decisions
 
@tristan yeah
 
then they want it to be done in 2 months or so
 
But they have made significant progress in renaming streets to names of government officials
 
9:05 AM
ask for budget and such "we don't know what's going to be in it"
 
Sounds like you don't want them as a customer if I'm honest
 
user559633
@RobertGrant i don't know why you live and pay taxes there
 
@IntrepidBrit so what do I eat, grass?
 
user559633
it sounds like you live in a jail with less reliable utilities
 
Yeah :)
But nice people
We might be moving back to the UK in the not-too-distant future
 
9:07 AM
@AnttiHaapala I said want, not need ;)
 
@IntrepidBrit :D exactly
 
user559633
..except for the people you built tall, electrified fences, to keep out
 
Yeah :)
 
I'm in the same boat. If I can, I offload those kinds of customers slowly. Normally, by charging them for various annoying things like:
 
I havent charged them anything yet
 
9:08 AM
"Because of last minute attempts at re-negiotating the contract, I expect half up front"
 
@tristan anyway this is a tough discussion to have when there's lots of white guilt around; ironically I have the most frank and interesting ones with smart black South Africans
 
@AnttiHaapala Can you show them the old triangle? Cheap/Fast/Good ?
 
Who (thankfully) don't see me as an ex-oppressor, as I'm not from SA
 
@IntrepidBrit you don't understand yet :D
the problem is: I am not sure who I am competing with
 
user559633
@RobertGrant yeah, it's a super hard conversation to have because some people still still get hung up on race
 
9:10 AM
Yeah, the govt gets voted in repeatedly because they just blame apartheid for everything now, and any time they're challenged they mention race
I've spoken to young black professionals who still think that voting for that government and letting them sort stuff out gradually is the African thing to do
 
@IntrepidBrit they ask me to do an inhouse solution, no, a product, no they want to sell it - they don't want to have any components they'd have to relicense for resale, but then they say they're in negotiations with some shrink-wrapped solution providers if it will becheaper or whsat not
 
They basically don't have a democracy, they have a monarchy where succession is by party nomination rather than birthright
 
and of course nothing happens before their summer leave
(which is 4 weeks+)
 
user559633
@RobertGrant i think this conversation is probably rife for misunderstanding, so nod, and we should probably turn left
 
And they think that it's okay for the president to have a giant, giant mansion of a house in the middle of his dirt-poor constituency
 
9:12 AM
@RobertGrant Well... better than a direct monarchy I suppose. "Now: be grateful, shut up and eat your cornflakes" - Words of wisdom from IntrepidGranny
 
Yeah fair enough. Just gets me annoyed, because it's so unfair for the dirt-poor South Africans
 
so at that point if I take anything else, they sell this to some PHP guy for the double per hours that I'd be content with
single party systems always suck.
always.
- and two-party systems as well.
 
user559633
first past the goalpost systems
 
user559633
single party systems are just dictatorships
 
cabbage, all
 
9:13 AM
does not matter how it happens, but it is always a problem.
 
@AnttiHaapala Ah. So they have no clue what they want to do. Are they just looking for someone to tell them what they need?
 
singapore, taiwan... seems that the chinese culture wants to have a single party state in any place :D
@IntrepidBrit yes, they did, I told them.
then they said "ok, now... well, after holidays then we will discuss this"
could have as well given me some money to do proper advance moves for them
but no
it would have been peanuts compared to the price of the whole project altogether
they're like "yeah but we've not made any decisions"
 
@AnttiHaapala do you have a relationship with someone more senior in the company?
 
now, I've turned down bidding at all for contract work in 1 bank bc this I could do in python
 
user559633
"In an extreme case, you could (temporarily I would hope) replace the entire site with a page celebrating the new "rights" of founder Joel." just scan because it's a boatload of crazy about a (temporary) 200px wide image on a website
 
9:16 AM
@RobertGrant I do, but I guess he's on the leave as well
this is a ME group, and the person I have been in talks with is the "2nd in line", but I am not sure if the 1st even knows what they're up to.
70 ppl altogether
engineering company :(
and at the ceo level they're like this :d
 
Brb - need to yell at people
 
@IntrepidBrit come here to yell to these :D
 
@tristan I (kind of) get what he's saying. If they replaced the logo with a Christian cross, would the same people be arguing that it's okay?
It all just comes down to what people want, and the arguments never really matter very much.
 
user559633
@RobertGrant That's fair, but if the motive for placing the cross on the site was "christians are no longer denied equal rights to a harmless, economically-stabilizing legal act, but are still subject to discrimination," then i'd be okay with a little lower case T hanging out for 3 days
 
And with any formerly-disadvantaged group, they're often still in "fight mode" even if the fight's won
 
9:23 AM
@RobertGrant it all comes down to what ppl want to be taken from other ppl
 
@tristan that's fair, but unless you think everyone else involved would have the same attitude, and would jump to defend it in the same way, then I still think I have a point :)
 
user559633
goddamn, if i really got so worked up over who people love and want to make flowers with, i'd drink bleach and throw myself into traffic for being such a tedious, controlling person
 
user559633
@RobertGrant well, for starters, the license on content allows them to change the site logo. more to the point, if people are getting IRL mad about 1 out of the 196 countries on earth deciding that "hey maybe our government should take religion out of the discussion and not control whether or not two people with wieners can sign a piece of paper combining their assets" then maybe getting their feathers ruffled is good for them
 
Exactly - it's about what people want :) Imagine someone saying "well maybe it's good for them" about doing something to people you like and agree with, that they don't like. You'd be up in arms.
 
user559633
@RobertGrant No, I wouldn't. We already covered the cross scenario. I don't like religion. That would be the thing I'd potentially be all arms about.
 
9:31 AM
To be honest - I personally think businesses should stand apart from politics in general
 
businesses consist of people
 
@tristan that's not an equal comparison, as you were talking about the legal change, not the logo change there
 
user559633
@IntrepidBrit Why? Businesses are made of people and now typically the only ones that typically have power to affect policy.
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Fair. We should not allow Catholics to marry.
 
the problem with businesses participating in politics is that they'd have considerably more influence per person :D
 
user559633
9:33 AM
Then when they want their rights back, I can pretend to get all huffy about it.
 
Not from a legal, must never have a point of view, but from a "it's generally inadvisable" to show it
 
user559633
Believing in god is a choice! No one is born that way!
 
@tristan hey, you basically just quoted the bible
Well, the born that way bit
 
Or to put it another way - What does SO gain from coming out and backing gay marriage?
What could SO lose from coming out and backing gay marriage?
 
It's not SO, I assume it's Joel celebrating personally
But I was saying if someone denied someone you liked something on the grounds that it's good for them, then you might not feel the same way. Unless you like and agree with Catholics, I think you missed that point.
 
user559633
9:35 AM
@IntrepidBrit Oh, you know, celebrating a discriminated group's gain of legal status? But beyond religion getting out of government and equal rights, nothing to gain from showing support.
 
user559633
@RobertGrant No, I get your point, I just think that you need to come up with an apples to apples scenario.
 
user559633
Because this is not taking anything away from anyone, and in the US, this ruling puts us more in line with what we claim out country wants to be.
 
@tristan By all means, let people celebrate and have it as their profile pictures be whatever they want to be, or their bios or whatever, but don't change the logo to suit
 
Sure: if they disapproved of gay marriage, and before the law change they'd (somehow) changed their logo to reflect that stance, on the grounds that it's good for gay people to have their feathers ruffled, would you be okay with that?
 
user559633
This hurts literally no one, except maybe the hands of a tailors making wedding garments.
 
9:37 AM
Yeah but that's a different point.
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Sure, as long as it's not intentionally set to offend.
 
(Not to mention SO is trying to become more Russian friendly and integrated with that Russian SO clone?)
 
And you'd defend it using the same argument?
 
user559633
@IntrepidBrit What, no? That's a fantastic 'get' for them. Aquisition-hire of a seriously talented man and getting rid of competition in one move.
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Of course. Thems the rules I live by.
 
9:39 AM
Fair enough, I approve. But you are very unusual, in my experience.
 
user559633
I don't care what people do or believe as long as it doesn't hurt others.
 
@tristan wurd.
 
Pfft. Don't hurt others. Get religion out of here.
 
@tristan you do not approve sadists? :D
 
user559633
[bad comparison]
 
9:41 AM
Started writing this from slightly earlier: Most people seem to treat arguments the same way they do when they see a movie: who are the baddies and who are the goodies? If they sound a bit like this then they're the baddies, and they deserve whatever they get.
 
user559633
not sure how to word it, but my feeling is that you can't both want to bring others to the same rights and then not the rights of other groups you may not be in line with to keep theirs. the sort of "i don't agree, but i'll fight to the death to protect your right to do it"
 
Yeah I agree with that, but I don't think most people are like that
 
I am trying to understand what is being talked here
 
user559633
it's kind of hard to word i guess because i seriously don't see a comparative situation.
 
Generally it's not a fairness issue, it's an I want my group to win issue
 
user559633
9:44 AM
@RobertGrant ah, i totally get you.
 
(This will become the comparative issue I think @tristan ^^)
 
Couched in fairness (because up to a point it is), but actually they then go way past fair
 
user559633
Yeah, I think that's the thing too and what frustrates me in politics/people's belief structures -- the assumption that "I have to win at the expense of you." Or want a zero-sum game.
 
@tristan didn't we talk this in the "human rights" discussion before :D
 
E.g. try and find a TV/radio advert that makes a woman look worse than a man. I haven't seen one in years. But I see/hear ones that show a woman being superior to a man all the time. Because men deserve whatever they get, because they're worse.
 
user559633
9:45 AM
@AnttiHaapala haha probably.
 
basically we want to win at the expense of otehrs...
 
user559633
@RobertGrant That's entirely a different scenario.
 
I think my values are superior to someone elses and I want my values to win.
 
@tristan I just mean in terms of going past equality
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Yeah, but to be careful, this is a different conversation than allowing male-to-male and female-to-female adapters to share a drawer.
 
9:47 AM
hmm, hardly past equality, even in Finland or Sweden.
 
Let's just all agree to use my ethics methodology which is "I don't care as long as you don't hurt anybody. Gay marriage? Bully for them, I don't really care. Church doesn't want to marry gay people because it's against their religion? Great, I don't care. You want to touch little kids? Whoa, dude, I do care, stop that right now."
 
@tristan I only mean it in the sense I mentioned
 
hardly there with equality yet
 
@Ffisegydd the church isn't actually for that :)
 
I don't care :P (I kid)
 
9:47 AM
@Ffisegydd :) happy to be of service. I spend an unholy amount of time in DIY shops (the downside of owning your own place)
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd Agreed. Perfect overlap, except "stay right there, I have to go fetch a brick" for the last bit
 
... that's a downside? I quite enjoy a cheeky bit of DIY
 
@tristan woah, don't hurt them
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Ruining a person's life isn't a "belief," it's an action that harms others.
 
I'm...not saying that it is?
 
9:49 AM
but again, if you brick paedophiles, you could as well stone gays :d
 
@AnttiHaapala that's exactly it
 
user559633
Controversial, but I'm in favor of violence against paedophiles.
 
user559633
@AnttiHaapala lol what
 
It's not a moral-free stance, you're just wrapping all your morality inside the phrase "hurt others"
 
@AnttiHaapala We're encouraging drug use?
 
user559633
9:49 AM
a consensual act between two parties is the same as child abuse
 
@tristan a consensual act could hurt one of them
 
user559633
@RobertGrant i'm really not though. i don't think i've ever minced words
 
"Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger."
 
E.g. some random story about someone eating someone else who let them
 
user559633
@AnttiHaapala yes, and then if they act it out on someone
 
9:51 AM
so we could as well stone schizophrenics
 
I'm backing out now anyway as I need to wash up, but I'd suggest we drop it anyway, it has spiralled out of control.
 
user559633
fair ^
 
I thought it was quite interesting :)
But okay
 
Dude! I can't believe people still call others dude!
:-P
 
I didn't wrap up my lines :D
 
user559633
9:52 AM
"dude" is the original "bro"
 
I still use dude :P
 
user559633
Me too.
 
user559633
Does anyone else have a hard time typing/make a lot of typos when tired?
 
Is “Subnavigation” one or two words? “Sub navigation”?
(Yes, that’s the most difficult problem I have to worry about today)
 
user559633
You could hyphenate it "sub-navigation"
 
10:01 AM
Well, essentially I want to know whether I need to camel case it
subnavigation or subNavigation
 
user559633
context?
 
variable naming
 
user559633
i assume it's "under navigation" and not a navigation system for submarines
 
Yes
 
user559633
i'd camel case it.
 
10:02 AM
mhh
 
user559633
supernavigation or superNavigation
 
user559633
it's like an adjectival prefix, so i'd probably follow the rules of however I thought about writing "leftNavigation"
 
Well, I don’t want to put assumptions on where to render it inside the variable name.
 
user559633
@poke Oh sure, I was just walking through my rationalization for it being a camel-case. You could always flip a coin.
 
@tristan In my case nothing to do with tiredness: just crappy typing ability and mild dyslexia that makes copy proofing difficult
 
10:09 AM
Well, it matches my rootNavigation, so I guess it’s fine..
 
user559633
@holdenweb Oof. When I get under 4 hours of sleep, I type the wrong words and make typos. I've been transferring notes for what seems like all morning.
 
@poke, you do realize that camel case is anti-PEP8?
 
In my case, typing quality deteriorates based on (from better to worse). 1) Concentration 2) agitation 3) Lack of sleep 4) use of mobile phone to type 5) copious alcohol.
If you have rootNavigation - don't you want branchNavigation and leafNavigation ;)
 
@holdenweb (1) I’m not writing Python atm. (2) I don’t care about PEP8. I’m a known opponent of its strict rules.
@JRichard There are only two levels :/
 
@poke actually I'd rather you called it pep_8
8
 
user559633
10:12 AM
@RobertGrant good show, chap.
 
@RobertGrant Nice.
 
@poke fine. Did you see Raymond Hettinger's PEP8 talk from this year's Montreal PyCon? I'm sure you'd approve (as did I).
 
Mmmm shwarma
 
Let's never forget the title of PEP 8*
 
@holdenweb Yes, I did, and I liked it :) He’s very right about things.
 
10:13 AM
* "A Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Small Minds", IIRC
 
@holdenweb Beyond PEP8?
That was a great talk
 
Indeed it was. But PEP 8's sole purpose was to increase code readability, not to trap people in a straight jacket
 
Yeah, I think it's good to have a style guide
 
I hope nobody here puts spces after opening parentheses, for example, or puts spaces arounf the "=" for keyword arguments/parameters
 
How does a style guide trap people?
 
10:16 AM
Interestingly, PEP 8 is the first google hit for "python hobgoblin"
 
80 char limit.
 
user559633
@RobertGrant fab-bu-lous-ly
 
@holdenweb I general agree with the idea of PEP8, to have a style guide—in this case especially for the stdlib—it totally makes sense. But just because we have a style guide that’s a PEP, that doesn’t mean that every Python code ever written should go by that guide.
 
@RobertGrant People assume it is prescriptive when it is advisory
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd total program limit too, not just line!!
 
10:17 AM
Yeah i saw that :)
 
YOU SAW NOTHING.
 
cowers
 
Not to sound too like Steve Ballmer, "readbility, readbility, readbility, readbility, readbility, readbility, ..." -[runs around until breathless and sweating profusely]_
 
user559633
@holdenweb dude, i have a mortgage
 
@tristan Pineapple?
 
user559633
10:19 AM
@holdenweb joke that i don't do readbility because i'm optimizing for job duration
 
Oh I see :)
 
user559633
mortgage driven development (MDD)
 
I'm more ADD (Aston driven development)
Or ADHD (Aston driven hard development)
runs out of steam
 
user559633
Hah. I have a suitcase with all my belongings in it. It's kind of neat.
 
We spoke earlier about how the Aston would also be the family home
 
10:21 AM
@tristan I'm not sure I want to get into the whole wrongness of "job duration" as a metric, so I assume that's a colloquialism for "I need to keep my job to pay the mortgage"
 
@holdenweb it was a joke - the harder his code is to read, the more likely he is to keep his job
 
user559633
@holdenweb Yeah, throwaway joke too. I've never optimized for job duration and always aim for "maximum learning"
 
I will, however, suggest that once you become comfortable in a job, in an optimal environment you change your responsibilities or leave. But that's just me ...
 
If I could describe my programming style in two words, it would be "code golf"
 
user559633
@RobertGrant "desperate idiot"
 
10:23 AM
@RobertGrant Ah, right, sometimes I can be very dense; thank Deity it doesn't stop me being smart
 
@holdenweb he did say it was a joke :)
@tristan "bigger suitcase"?
 
user559633
@RobertGrant oh, i was describing my coding style
 
I really found that adopting TDD helped a lot to "keep me on the fairway"
@RobertGrant Think that's going to stop me passing out general advice to the whippersnappers? Bugrit
 
Yes, I'm also finding I'm overly pedagogical :)
Hmm I did have a TDD pun but I forgot it
@tristan I think I've lost the thread of this joke
 
Back to the notebooks. I have to give an Intermediate Python class, and all the materials need converting from 3.4 to 2.7
 
10:26 AM
assert robert_grant == forgetful
 
user559633
@RobertGrant oh. If I could describe my programming style in two words, it would be "code golf" response describing mine... never mind :)
 
@JRichardSnape yeah that doesn't look good
 
This chilli is immense. I may not be an elegant cook, but damn I can put together some decent hearty grub.
 
@holdenweb why?
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd I thought you were washing up... Do you bathe in chili?
 
10:27 AM
I was washing up my bowl so I could put chilli in it to eat.
 
hah - washing up - interpretation
 
Aaaah well spotted
And we thought you were washed up
Python chatroom briefly pauses as everyone tries to find a 4th
3
 
I'd have thought being a project manager, you'd be used to wash up meetings :)
 
user559633
Oh. I actually went into standby mode. Maybe I should take a nap
 
Who's a project manager?
 
10:30 AM
I am.
 
I sorta assumed you were, mea culpa if not
 
(Is it me?)
Oh okay :)
 
I have been for many a year
 
Rbrb guys, I just have to go and kill myself
 
user559633
Wait, dr fizzy is a PM?
 
10:30 AM
A poor one, often
 
user559633
@RobertGrant good...luck?
 
And a liar.
 
@JRichardSnape yeah but you don't come across like one :)
@tristan pfft that'll hurt my friends and family - you should be hitting me with a brick right now :)
 
To be fair - I think it's more "I have managed projects" than "I self define as a project manager"
 
user559633
@RobertGrant that's not at all my modus :)
 
10:31 AM
I'm not one, and I do come across like one
 
It's your designing software to manage time etc that put me in mind of it
 
Hence my needing to phone the Samaritans
 
extracts foot from mouth
 
That was because my PM struggles to work out duration based on effort, and I had to sit in a two hour phone call talking it all through
 
'twasnt meant as an insult. So in fact, you're a project manager manager
 
10:33 AM
Speaking of which, I'm still hoping @antti will fix pyramid_fullauth for me
@JRichardSnape I know, sorry was just exaggerating for comic effect :)
 
::D
ooh - I've got two sets of eyes.
 
I thought you were insulting me because I wear glasses kills self
 
I forgot one from my typo inducing list earlier - caffeine concentration defficiency. Temporary rbrb
 
user559633
∴)
 
Er please remove that symbol of Evolution before I leave SO
 
user559633
10:35 AM
@RobertGrant lol, symbol for 'therefore' taken as a symbol of evolution
 
They should be all in a line really
 
@RobertGrant my friend's doin' a full-stack framework on top of pyramid :P
 
Good idea
Especially with registration and login, it really needs a plug in and work sort of thing for common cases, that uses all the nice Pyramidy stuff
 
Which fullauth kind of is, and would be fine if I'd been using Mako
Although I'd rather have components like that I can plug in than a whole stack
 
10:40 AM
yeah, it will be both
 
That's nice
Is it done yet? :)
 
Oh - and will it allow renderer overriding?
 
he says it is in production already
not yet, but it could be worked out
 
Interesting
In production on some of his sites?
 
10:44 AM
yes
and he didn't want to let me contribute yet :D
 
But not ready to release to other devs yet, I guess?
 
afraid that I'd say what I think of his code :d
 
Ah. So will it ever be released? :)
 
I guess
 
Tell him it's better to get feedback now rather than when he's written more of it :)
On that declarative->imperative conversion of fullauth - he's used class based views with defaults. If I get rid of the view_configs and view_defaults and add in all relevant the default+config info with an add_view on the functions inside the class, will that work? Or is there more to do?
 
10:54 AM
Why did I read the question title as nose picking first?
 
Hm, I think the answer's no. I need to comb the Pyramid docs.
@MartijnPieters run with it: make
 
@MartijnPieters I wonder if they have an __init__.py file in the directory with that test?
 
@IntrepidBrit multiple possibilities. Can the module be imported without syntax errors? Is it in a package? Is there a pattern of excluded module names anywhere?
 
I didn't think nose exclusion came pre-packaged by default.
 
re_cbg
 
11:05 AM
hi can anyone tell me how to increament the character in a string by 3, example "acDb" to "dfGe"
 
17
A: adding all the letters of a string up by 1 python

FfisegyddYou can use translate to directly change a letter to a different letter: try: from string import makestrans except ImportError: maketrans = str.maketrans from string import ascii_lowercase #old = 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ' #new = 'bcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzaB...

Shameless self-plug is shameless.
 
puts down his IDLE
aww
 
@Ffisegydd thanks man
 
11:27 AM
@AnttiHaapala Because I wrote the class in Python 3 and this client uses Python 2
 
@AnttiHaapala what about this? :)
 
hi guy
s
 
11:45 AM
Cabbage all
 
Hey up
 
How is your day
 
Buy it only 10000rs in Indian rupees
 
I think I'll get it for myself for Christmas maybe.
 
11:57 AM
@holdenweb Sticking my nose in, but I actually think translating is "no bad thing" TM. It reinforces the notion that doing so is not some kind of herculean labour, accessible only to demi-gods. Particularly if you say that you normally deliver it in Python 3, but here it is in 2.
 
I'm going to be using a lot more Python 2 in my job, so it's certainly no bad thing from my point of view. This is a very open-ended class, so notebooks have the advantage that I can deliver all the code we talked about afterwards.
Cbg, @VigneshKalai
 
Has anyone else suffered the horrors of trying to correct the numbering and outlining of a .odt document in LibreOffice? wailing and gnashing of teeth
 
@RobertGrant it would work but you'd havehard time bolting it there
@JRichardSnape yes but ppl should be translting from python 2 to python 3, not the opposite
 
Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Is it better to convert it all to function-based views?
At which point the opportunity cost lowers for just converting my project to Mako
 
sure, sure, not picking a fight @AnttiHaapala (indeed I am "transitioning" myself). Sometimes we are forced to do things by circumstance.
 
12:10 PM
cbg @holdenweb
 
@JRichardSnape Open/Libre Office are both even more confusing than MS Word in that behavior. I remember deleting a bulleted paragraph I had just created by hitting Enter. I had to hit the delete key FOUR times to get back to where I was before that single keystroke.
Seemed a little counter-intuitive to me
 
@holdenweb Glad it's not solely me being inept. At least if it is ineptitude, we're inept together
 
We're all in ept together?
 
WYSIWYG is hard to do, from what I've heard
And that's before you're trying to support 20 years of Office file formats as well
(20 is too many)
 
@RobertGrant Tell me about it. When I taught at Manchester I ran a group that produced the first math WYSIWIG editor - VuWriter (may it rest in peace - you can't even get much from Google it was so long ago)
 
12:17 PM
That's cool
 
12:34 PM
Did it use TeX?
 
user559633
12:49 PM
Amazing quote from this morning - clicks Stack vs Heap bookmark "Oh, I expected hiphop"
 
Looks like suffle guy is back.
 
You mean soufflé?
 
don't suffle in silence, let it rise to the top.
4
 
Yes precisely
 

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