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9:00 AM
@JayIsTooCommon ?
What is it?
 
!!ophiuchus
 
@JayIsTooCommon Yes you did.
@Gordon Now you're just making shit up.
 
@kelunik if you are using instanceof on a non-object you have made a mistake, throwing an exception at the earliest opportunity is always desirable ... so ideally it should throw an exception for a non-object, that wouldn't stop you doing anything you are currently doing, it would just raise errors earlier ...
 
Ophiuchus (⛎) (/ɒfiˈjuːkəs/) has sometimes been used in sidereal astrology as a thirteenth sign in addition to the twelve signs of the tropical Zodiac, because the eponymous constellation Ophiuchus (Greek: Ὀφιοῦχος "Serpent-bearer") as defined by the 1930 IAU constellation boundaries is situated behind the sun from November 30 to December 18. The idea appears to have originated in 1970 with Stephen Schmidt's suggestion of a 14-sign zodiac (also including Cetus as a sign). A 13-sign zodiac has been suggested by Walter Berg and by Mark Yazaki in 1995, a suggestion that achieved some popularity in...
who's making shit up now, huh?
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa ping didn't strip but github.com/Room-11/Jeeves/commit/… :s
 
9:02 AM
@JayIsTooCommon Just look at the author of the commit and it should be clear :P
 
Anonymous
:P
 
@JoeWatkins If you have an instanceof check, you specifically guard specific code paths based on the variables type. Returning false in case something is not even an instance is perfectly reasonable, as it won't execute the guarded code path.
> throwing an exception at the earliest opportunity is always desirable
If an exception is going to be thrown, that may be true, but it should throw the right exception.
 
I'm not going to argue with you about it all day ... returning false in all cases would be consistent and acceptable, but I don't think ideal ... you do, let's agree to disagree ...
 
I agree with you in the cases where we can say that lhs will never be an object. :)
 
9:18 AM
diff --git a/Zend/tests/errmsg_041.phpt b/Zend/tests/errmsg_041.phpt
index bfcafd261d..160189611c 100644
--- a/Zend/tests/errmsg_041.phpt
+++ b/Zend/tests/errmsg_041.phpt
@@ -1,11 +1,9 @@
 --TEST--
-errmsg: instanceof expects an object instance, constant given
+errmsg: instanceof expects an object instance, constant rt and ct parity
 --FILE--
 <?php

 var_dump("abc" instanceof stdclass);
-
-echo "Done\n";
 ?>
---EXPECTF--
-Fatal error: instanceof expects an object instance, constant given in %s on line %d
run with it ... if you like ...
consistency is better than ideal, and more achievable whatever ...
 
Anybody who understands http / curl can explain WTF curl would add Expect: 100-continue automagically to requests?
 
^ PUT or POST requests? Also are you using any authentication headers
 
@PeeHaa the request have a message body?
 
yes to all
post, basic auth, body
 
so it won't bother sending the body if the server won't accept it
 
9:25 AM
^
> New authentication code added, particularly noticable when doing
POST or PUT with Digest or NTLM. libcurl will now use HEAD to
negotiate the authentication and when done perform the requested
POST.
 
WHat's the issue with sending the whole body
 
It makes no sense
Ooooooh fuck me
> The reason for this change is due to IIS6 barfing on libcurl when
we attempt to POST with NTLM authentication.
 
Below that paragraph is why, the tldr of it is that IIS6 buggers up
 
WTF level MS
 
@JoeWatkins HHVM is consistent. 3v4l.org/SrerG
 
TL;DR IIS of all servers fucked it all up
 
@kelunik so PR the patch :)
 
hi
 
if (obj_node.op_type == IS_CONST) {
should check for is_string also
I'm sure you can figure it out ...
 
9:29 AM
@JoeWatkins Consistency is good, but error detection is better. A constant on lhs is always a mistake.
 
fatal errors are not very useful
 
they're a fine "hey developer, you dun screwed up"
 
diff --git a/Zend/tests/errmsg_041.phpt b/Zend/tests/errmsg_041.phpt
index bfcafd261d..160189611c 100644
--- a/Zend/tests/errmsg_041.phpt
+++ b/Zend/tests/errmsg_041.phpt
@@ -1,11 +1,9 @@
 --TEST--
-errmsg: instanceof expects an object instance, constant given
+errmsg: instanceof expects an object instance, constant rt and ct parity
 --FILE--
 <?php

 var_dump("abc" instanceof stdclass);
-
-echo "Done\n";
 ?>
---EXPECTF--
-Fatal error: instanceof expects an object instance, constant given in %s on line %d
this looks more correct ...
I've got to do proper work now ... run with it, don't ... it's not that important :)
 
@PeeHaa Reads like IIS does it right.
 
That may even be fair to say :(
 
9:35 AM
hush you, iis is mentioned in the context of a problem - that means it's time to bash it
 
@JoeWatkins We can totally make it a warning I guess.
 
Inefficient but valid
 
@PeeHaa It's how 100-continue works is defined.
 
But yeah probably therfc to blame
 
Definitely the RFC to blame.
 
9:36 AM
/me blames the rfc
And iis
Especially iis
 
maybe
 
@kelunik I approve of the edit btw :P
 
@PeeHaa It does that with all bodies, because the header could already check the auth headers and send a status without reading the body.
 
introducing new warnings is a bit nasty though
 
@kelunik Yeah I see
 
9:38 AM
how can I convert this array into html entities
$trans = get_html_translation_table(HTML_ENTITIES);
echo "<pre>";
print_r($trans);
 
@JoeWatkins Why? Making a fatal error a warning shouldn't do any harm?
 
I TILed something today
 
@kelunik you would still be left with inconsistency, if you wanted it to be consistent you'd have to raise a new warning at runtime for non-objects
 
Consistent with?
 
I mean if there is & then it will be converted into &amp;
 
9:39 AM
@Exception That's what your code already does...
 
consistent between runtime and compile time
if $a is defined in some other file, or passed as param to a function that does instanceof, $a could still be a ct constant, but will behave differently depending on where the definition of $a is when used as lval to instanceof
that's strange
it should behave same at runtime and compile time, I think ...
 
Oh, I wouldn't throw a warning if the LHS is a variable, just if it's an actual constant such as a string or number.
 
On a totally unrelated note: how much would you internals people hate it when I change the layout of our news GUI to make it look just a bit less crap and kinda workable on mobile?
I know there is externals, but I still hate our official front end
 
my official front end is externals, I dunno why we keep news, we should be running externals on news domain
no objection to anyone working on it, but bit of a waste of time, I'd rather you got permission to host externals internally and replace news ...
it's not very fair that the guy running externals has to pay for a server
 
Permission from mnapoli?
It's foss right?
 
9:45 AM
no, permission to replace news.php.net with it
 
ah I see
Well one reason is that externals is internals only
 
What's the crack with the redesign? It kinda just fizzled out
 
because it's all that is important to external peepz, could be adapted though I guess
 
how difficult would it be to find some systems person to set it up, or give access to do so, vs redesigning and pushing a new ui?
 
I did start on this at some point though
 
9:46 AM
screenshot ?
 
hello
 
It's basically externals, but improved / not finished
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa am still willing to join in on that one
 
@PeeHaa do improving and finishing, then hassle anyone to get access to news box
 
9:47 AM
Yeah I should / we should @JayIsTooCommon
 
anybody know how to check matched variable is numeric or character using regular expression
 
I think I stopped working on it once I found out that encoding issues suck :P
 
news.php.net could do with a link back to php.net/mailing-lists.php too
 
@PaulCrovella it's just a matter of getting someone to give you a login to news box ... nobody is admin of anything, it's whoever can login and has time/will power to make changes really
 
+1?
 
Anonymous
9:48 AM
as long as I'm not in the middle
 
Well if you think it's worth it I am willing to pick it up again
And more eyes / hands on it would also be fine :-)
 
@JoeWatkins that's what concerns me
 
Maybe we should just write down a list of things we want @JayIsTooCommon @Sean @others
 
if someone presents an interface that is ready, and says they can dedicate the time to making it work and maintaining it, I'll get them access to the box they need
 
Anonymous
1) A life.
 
9:50 AM
@JoeWatkins Will ping you
 
Your life is forfeit to the Elephpant.
 
Anonymous
I still think R11 should go into business, build an empire.
 
@JoeWatkins It may even become a proper generic webnews interface so 3rd parties will help maintain it :D
 
don't overcast the net
 
I don't right now
 
9:51 AM
@JayIsTooCommon Could never sell our stuff - we're too self deprecating :P
 
as wide as it needs to be, and no wider ... just concentrate on us for now, I think ...
 
Yeah, we built this crap thing on a crap language.
 
but you don't have to listen to me whatever ... just a talking head ...
 
Anonymous
@Sean that's true.. with the minds in this room though, could be powerful
 
Focus is on php news right now
 
9:52 AM
good call
 
I kinda want to build it with rails now.
 
/kick paul
 
I heard PHP 5 is some sort of RoR clone ?
 
in the nuts
 
Anonymous
i'd be the masseuse
 
9:53 AM
!!remind try to get a webnews poc in 10 hours
 
Usage: !!reminder [ examples | list | <text> [ at <time> | in <delay> ] | unset <id> ] Try !!reminder examples
 
Daaaaaaaamn cc @Ekin
:P
 
Reminder 36369618 is set.
 
you do that literally every time
 
9:54 AM
I know :P
 
^3 that
 
Oh so it's my problem now?
:D
 
It is :P
 
the badge has spoken
 
9:55 AM
Maybe I should just write a specific switch in the plugin for when I use it
Also
I hate you all
 
What was the original remind command?
 
BTW @JayIsTooCommon is there any specific part you want to touch for webnews?
@Sean leading interval instead of trailing
 
!!remind examples
 
Examples:
• !!reminder foo at 18:00
• With timezone: (ie. UTC-3) !!reminder foo at 18:00-3:00
• !!reminder bar in 2 hours
• !!reminder unset 32901146
• !!reminder list or just !!reminders
• !!in 2 days 42 hours 42 minutes 42 seconds 42!
• !!at 22:00 Grab a beer!
 
!!in 5 seconds tell PeeHaa to syntax
 
9:57 AM
Reminder 36369736 is set.
@Sean tell PeeHaa to syntax
 
@PeeHaa I vaguely remember recommending @Ekin not support both. So if memory serves me right, you're welcome.
 
Yeah. Also it will allow more natural usage sometime this week... if I don't get too sidetracked...
Yesterday I poked it a bit but then ended up writing tests for it instead
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa whatever I can do to help
 
Anonymous
I want to break more OS projects that aren't Jeeves
 
@JayIsTooCommon Cool. Will try to write down a list somewhere tonight of what I think should be done
 
10:06 AM
@JayIsTooCommon that's why parts of jeeves are being split off into their own bits
 
Anonymous
Speaking of which, I'll carry on with tests soon
 
Nice
@Ekin At least it's not C this time :P
 
Err... yeah also at least it might be useful :P
 
:-)
 
10:18 AM
@PeeHaa Will this just be on a separate branch orrrr~
 
@Sean What will?
 
webnews
 
@Sean I basically just copied (not forked) externals to here webnews.pieterhordijk.com
So for now you can just work against master
Forking was not really an option sadly
Once it's done we can always put it under the php org if needed
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa also, get a mic
 
Yes @Ekin...
 
Anonymous
10:22 AM
oh yeah, @Ekin buy the drunk a mic please :(
 
lol not what I meant but fine :P
 
:D
 
This is fun
 
oh god
Please somebody take away shields.io from @DaveRandom before somebody gets hurt
 
Anonymous
10:26 AM
did you see my ping christoph? not sure if it's chat stack chat related
 
morning
 
Anonymous
sup booby
 
@JayIsTooCommon no?
 
yo boobwi
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/36368655#36368655 ping stripping was working afaik and the plugin hasn't been changed
 
10:28 AM
@bwoebi Did you get the ping about the php-uv bug?
 
@kelunik yes, seen it
 
@kelunik link?
 
well, you mean the php://temp feature, right?
 
ty
 
10:30 AM
React uses them in their tests.
 
@JayIsTooCommon Oh right yeh that's weird, need to add some logging to see the raw data being exchanged with the cleverbot API
> Mr Wright, your Bosch service engineer will be with you tomorrow between 10:11 and 13:11
wtf kind of system generates 3 hour windows at minute granularity?
 
google told it it's an 11 minute drive from the prior appt to you
 
@DaveRandom One that takes into account travel time and says they're 'agile'?
 
Anonymous
you'd still think they'd round it up to the next 5 divisible
 
I'd have just gone with 10:00 - 14:00 personally
 
10:40 AM
and in small print clarify that's in the form of dd:hh
 
Where dd is "decade" and hh is "haha we're not really coming at all lol"
 
10:55 AM
Decent ws library for 5.5/5.6?
 
> And some things that should have been forgotten were lost. History became legend. Legend became myth. And for two and a half thousand years, PHP 5 passed out of all knowledge.
 
The dream
We're able to update to 16.06 soon, I can't wait.
 
@PaulCrovella Lord of PHP
 
@Sean amp v1 is >=5.5
 
@DaveRandom right, but aerys always was >=7.0
 
11:07 AM
well not always, it's existed for longer than 7...
 
yeah okay
but for its whole public lifetime
 
actually @Sean you didn't specify whether you want ws client or server?
 
Ah, server
 
It already required >=7.0 when PHP 7 wasn't even released yet.
 
lol
Let's see if I get this right
!!package amphp/aerys
 
11:08 AM
[ amphp/aerys ] A non-blocking HTTP/Websocket server
 
What about amp/websocket?
 
that's a client
 
Oh yeah, I'm blind
 
What will the front end of this be?
 
11:12 AM
If you are running it on an existing server, you'd have to reverse-proxy it anyway because you won't be able to rebind TCP 80/443
 
Client, web browser. So any JS library or just something custom
 
@Sean It's just 5 lines of JS
 
Yeah
Was just eyeing up @Jimbo's talk where he uses Ratchet & Autobahn
 
Does anyone one has idea to synchronize two tables located on different databse using MySql? ^_^
 
@Sean Do you need rpc, pub/sub?
 
11:17 AM
Probably not tbf
It's really one way for now, so the WS server will be monitoring for events using redis or a queue and will push them to all clients viewing the page that the events concern
 
> viewing the page that the events concern
That actually sounds like you want subscribers to certain topics
 
Is there a way to see expire date of access token in Facebook API?
My access token expire after about 30 min
 
tokens should be valid for 60 days
You are doing it wrong?
What @Sean said
 
11:24 AM
Yes, I saw it already. But still my access token works only for few minutes and after that I get "message": "Error validating access token: Session has expired on Wednesday, 29-Mar-17 04:00:00 PDT. The current time is Wednesday, 29-Mar-17 04:24:13 PDT.",
 
@Linus Thanks It's helpful but I want it to be done automatically using trigger on table or something Like on insert in table abcd add same data in table xyz
 
@WorkingPig Did you just see it or actually implement any of it?
 
Implement.
 
Which part in specific?
 
So are you swapping the code from user authentication for an access token, yeah?
I mean, you're definitely dealing with an access token right? You can can verify the token details here: developers.facebook.com/tools/debug/accesstoken
 
11:27 AM
@Akshay support.dbconvert.com/hc/en-us/articles/… i didn't read it see if it's help ... :P
 
@tereško hyperlight drifter is 50% off today
 
Hello there, Does anyone has experience with MongoDB? I'm having trouble with aggregation, maybe someone can help me. I asked as a question but I couldn't get any answer. You can check it from: stackoverflow.com/questions/43082266/…
 
@tereško also Dragons Dogma
both on your wishlist
 
stalker
 
Lovely @Linus <3 . This is not actually what I want but I got some clue to get it done. Thanks
:p
 
11:31 AM
@Gordon you know steam will email if there's an item from your wishlist on sale
 
@PaulCrovella idk if he got that enabled
 
@Akshay lol
 
@WorkingPig They give you either short or long lived tokens: developers.facebook.com/docs/facebook-login/access-tokens You can ask for a long-lived token from a short-lived one
 
public function testScalarSubTypesAreNotVariantMatchForNullableNonScalarBuiltInSuperTypesInWeakM‌​ode()
variance is a proper, epic headfuck
 
I like that
 
11:33 AM
get rid of type system. problem solved
 
Also who cares about weak mode
 
who's "we"?
 
Anonymous
brexit has begun
 
Only weak people that's who
@PaulCrovella ?
 
@PeeHaa the history will preserve your shame
 
11:34 AM
:P
 
:D
 
@JayIsTooCommon that's weak mode right there
The UK is now in full-on weak mode
 
Anonymous
we'll see, hopefully it goes swell.
 
Bold words in room11. declare(strict_types=1); https://t.co/cnBrqQmDrD
 
3 messages moved to Trash
 
11:38 AM
Also does anyone have a sane way for me to remember which way round covariant and contravariant are? I've had to look it up srsly 5 times in the last half an hour
 
All hail the beginning of the glorious disbanding of the United Kingdom after a century of feeling oppressed by the EU despite being allowed to keep their pound and everything else all the other member states didn't get. Huzzah!
 
@Sara bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=74327 is one reason to not use strict types.
 
Anonymous
more worried about trump tbh
 
@DaveRandom i.imgur.com/MK1VE50.jpg not stoњg maњ like Germaњs
 
Eh... yeah... don't care.
 
11:44 AM
@DejanMarjanovic rauchbier omnomnomnom
 
@DaveRandom remember the video game contra and the part where you keep jumping up to climb from platform to platform?
 
@Gordon So what you're saying is, at the very least we used to be good at negotiating :p
 
@kelunik I think it wouldn't be awfully complicated to not cast to integer in strict mode. but i can already hear the BC break screams from a distance :P
 
@pmmaga Also: The surprise perf regression from enabling strict mode would be vexing
Well, no. The edge case of trying to use numeric string keys is likely small
((was thinking ALL keys as strings, ignoring that one can use real integers))
 
@JayIsTooCommon rip
 
11:51 AM
fwiw, HackLang ran into this and introduced the Indexish builtin type which can be string|int.
 
@Gordon If you ever pop by, I live across the brewer(y|ies) :-)
 
Now... why isn't PHP crashing where I fully expect it to?
 
@Sara Hmm.. It would be interesting to check. Maybe I'll give it a go just as an exercise. :)
 
For UK users here, don't forget to set your clocks back 50 years
 
@pmmaga If you explcitly use numeric string keys, you'll likely notice a small, but measureable difference
 
11:54 AM
@Linus That's what I wanted sitepoint.com/how-to-create-mysql-triggers
 
@Sara wait, over explicitly int keys?
 
@Leigh Only in the hypothetical case where the engine were modified to leave the keys as strings despite being numeric
 
@Sara Out of curiosity, what was the ZE4-conceptualisation trigger? :)
 
By converting numeric strings to ints you get a few advantages: Layout: If your indexes are in a reasonably tight range and order you can use packed arrays. If not packed, then Lookup perf: Hash lookup is the same (assuming strings are pre-hashed), but the assoc keys have to be fully compared to verify the right bucket.
@Leigh Replacing the opline based executor with a stack based one.
 
@Leigh :)
 
11:59 AM
@PaulCrovella yes but this does not help :-P
 
@DaveRandom make it work for you
 
Which would break a ton of edge case things like.... opcache, xdebug, ya know... random stuff
And be a ton of work for uncertain benefit.
 

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