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12:01 PM
@Akshay you want to create trigger? and asking question about database synch.. :P
 
My exposure to stack vms is limited. I did some security challenges for a system based on one, but no idea of perf trade-offs
I belive CPython uses one?
 
Could be, not sure.
Just something I've been mulling around for awhile
 
@Sara what would be the point of it at all?
 
Would it help/hinder/obsolete any efforts around JIT?
 
@bwoebi Could produce smaller op arrays, even fewer/simpler opcodes if designed well.
All things that have potential to speed up the system as a whole.
Trouble is: Benefit isn't certain, but the cost is high and absolutely certain.
So it'll really only happen if someone gets REALLY bored.
 
12:10 PM
@Sara I somehow am doubting this. Also, less and smaller opcodes does not mean more speed. Indirect dispatching (to opcodes) is expensive …
 
Meanwhile... these crashes.... the refcount of this string is TOO DAMN HIGH
Simpler opcodes do though
It's just musings, I wouldn't worry about it.
 
@Sara crashes because of too high rc? you mean too low? :o
 
Too high in my not-reproing repro case.
This should be crashing, but isn't.
 
@Sara valgrind not showing it either?
 
nah nah, I know why the refcount is able to get too low, don't need valgrind to tell me that. It's just a question of crafting a proper repro.
Bugfixes are great, tests to catch them in the future are even better.
 
12:15 PM
@Sara for Release Womanager!
 
:eyeroll:
 
ph_soap crashes apache (x64 only) – #74331
 
Anonymous
@Sara did you see my ping yesterday?
 
AH, I SEE WHERE YOU GET YOUR REFCOUNT FROM
@JayIsTooCommon Possibly... what was it about?
 
Don't shout. It will start hiding again
 
Anonymous
12:17 PM
@Sara asking whether or not you're coming to PHPSC :) ?
 
/me grabs reference and drags it out into the open for a beating
 
@Gordon I wouldn't wish that on anyone
 
@JayIsTooCommon Sadly no... Unless a thing changes, in which case maybe. But probably not.
Segmentation fault (core dumped) <--- who's repro? My repo.
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa have you sorted yourself out for PHPSC yet?
 
@JayIsTooCommon Not really, but if the choice is between having my picture taken with a sombrero on or hanging out with you people I would pick the first :-P
 
12:21 PM
@DaveRandom she seems to want to have a go at it though, so I am only encouraging that…
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa rude.
 
Oh, the RM thing? Dude... Put up or shut up, right? I'm overdue to pay my dues.
 
hoy hoy
 
TONY!
HOW YOU DOIN'?
 
Yo ferrari
 
12:24 PM
I don't know why I repeatedly think that this time will be different and I will be able to stand reading the ext/soap code
 
((sorry, New York is having an effect on the stereotype centers of my brain))
 
Anonymous
@ircmaxell o/
 
@DaveRandom Like any abuse survivor, you know you can change it...
 
I'm doin, hoy are you
 
I'm... overdue to get the fuck out of bed.
I wanna explore before I need to leave for the airport
But there are so many juicy looking segfaults in PHP right now
 
12:26 PM
@Sara I have this weird fantasy that one day I will be able to take it by the horns and beat it into submission and make it comprehensible and sane. Something about it is strangely magnetic, like that hotplate on the stove.
 
@DaveRandom but it's soap. that'd be antithetical to its nature.
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa I can pretend to be @Ekin and i'll buy you a sombrero
 
@DaveRandom Sounds like my obsession with ext/curl
 
@Sara go see the city!
 
/me looks at ~/dev/sgolemon/curli/ and sighs
 
12:29 PM
@PaulCrovella I wrote an xsd (by hand) a couple of days ago. I have a problem.
 
@ircmaxell yeah yeah... I'm goin'
 
@DaveRandom just types I hope
 
@Ocramius how can i run dbal tests locally? couldn't find any documentation and I need to fix a bug...
 
Wait, Sara, you live in France now right?
 
@PaulCrovella Yes, although I was pretty close to defining a doc structure by hand as well. All the (free) tooling sucks, like way more than it needs to.
 
12:31 PM
Get to France ♬
 
@Leigh Not yet. That move is still pending. And atm I'm visiting New York.
 
Pending how long?
 
:)
 
@DaveRandom build it with relax ng, and if you need to convert that to xsd that you never touch... or look at... or speak of
or try schematron, that's fun too
 
@ircmaxell your SO profile still says Director of Engineering at Grovo. Did you go back or just not updated yet?
 
12:36 PM
nope
not there
fixed
 
got any plans for your next gig yet?
 
nope
a bunch of interviews and leads
but nothing at the end yet
 
I've just found the app I'm inheriting (to rewrite) has error_reporting set to 0....which makes trying to figure out how it "works" be exciting.
 
@Danack I wish you good luck!
 
12:41 PM
DateTime::createFromFormat(date) adds current time; but no microseconds – #74332
 
@Jeeves dupe
@JayIsTooCommon I have seen you. Thanks but no thanks :D
 
@PeeHaa Ah, Jeeves. Like a butler.
 
fixitfixitfixit
 
lol yes buddy. Like the butler
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa :o
 
Anonymous
12:44 PM
@PaulCrovella there you go.
 
hahahaha @PaulCrovella
 
@ircmaxell Germany :flag-de:
 
@Jeeves wtf
 
Anonymous
it'd be odd it be
 
12:49 PM
also that API is slooooooooow
 
@DaveRandom Is Jeeves a good valet?
 
he's getting worse somehow
 
Anonymous
now he's just rubbing it in
 
@DaveRandom Not sure why it's so slow today
 
5 messages moved to Trash
 
Anonymous
12:50 PM
however.. slower responses make him seem more human
 
Thinking I might get one of these for this years round of conferences. facepalm.com/img7/beard-rule-47-68663_w.jpg
 
unsure if threat or promise
 
condition followed by statement
I guess it's a promise :)
If @Danack gets one too, we can touch each others beards...
2
 
I'm curious about the previous 46 rules
 
lol 12 minutes of avoiding actual work later
 
I am doing actual work, but it involves tar'ing and mvn compiling and scp'ing and other slow stuff so I got plenty of time to google :P
 
@Gordon In other words, compiling
 
yes
 
@Sara well, then I like being weak :>
 
Disturbing thought of the day... Bob's head on Schwarzenegger's body
 
Anonymous
jesus
 
Anonymous
hello son.
 
1:32 PM
the whole trinity thing really screws up that family tree
 
@Leigh That's a compliment?
 
@Leigh so how did this come up anyway?
 
@PaulCrovella He'd rather be weak. Strong Bob, weird Bob
 
okay, i see that
 
Anonymous
@Leigh plants watering themselves yet?
 
1:37 PM
@JayIsTooCommon Better question. "Plants yet?"
 
Anonymous
lol
 
@JayIsTooCommon wait, why was that necessary?
 
Anonymous
@DaveRandom I though repin would pin it
 
Anonymous
i meant pin.
 
Why didn't it autopin?
 
1:40 PM
^ that
 
!!blame
 
It's @PeeHaa's fault
 
Anonymous
oh, no idea
 
godamnit
 
Did you run into any troubles when using ZMQ and Ratchet, @Jimbo?
 
denied
 
Anonymous
btw it didn't pin the repinned either
 
There's an open issue RE !!rfc not pinning right?
 
Anonymous
I had to pin that manually
 
Sure I assigned it to me yesterday
 
1:41 PM
@Sean yes
 
I think we can update the badge of shame @Sean /cc @DaveRandom we are looking at you
 
Anonymous
!!issue add !!alias replace - It doesn't remove, it doesn't add, it replaces!
 
@JayIsTooCommon Issue created - github.com/Room-11/Jeeves/issues/199
 
Anonymous
@PaulCrovella he'll be president soon
 
clearly
 
1:44 PM
https://twitter.com/AlysaJulianne/status/846432948345864197
Tempted to /cc taylor, but can't be bothered with the fanboy spam (again)
 
Anonymous
we could all do it..
 
moment
 
lol unalias \o/
 
1:47 PM
@PaulCrovella So the man who claims to have invented email is running against a white woman who once claimed to be Native American... awesome
 
did you mean to do that?
 
You know what I meant to do :P
Got too excited to do it right :P
There we go
 
1 message moved to Trash
 
Anonymous
lol
 
1 message moved to Trash
 
1:49 PM
er... wat?
 
I / we cast it
 
sorry, if you screw up blaming someone else and blame yourself in the process - i think ya gotta stick with it
 
@PaulCrovella Yeah that may actually be a valid thing :D
 
tough, I'm not going to
 
Wat
It doesn't actually ping you now?
 
1:51 PM
*now
 
Too slow
 
Does only sayf ping?
fuck me
 
19 messages moved to Trash
 
oooooh
I think I get it?
 
1:53 PM
We deliberately designed it like this, I specifically discussed this with you many times :-P
 
@PeeHaa your success rate at these commands is just terrible
 
? :P
 
nope :-P
 
I knew that
@DaveRandom Also I totally don't listen to you ever
@DaveRandom noob
@DaveRandom
@dave
 
OK enough of this
 
Anonymous
1:56 PM
@DaveRandom tequila.
 
1 message moved to Trash
15 messages moved to Trash
 
@Sean I got the bug, it's in stackchat
 
\o/
 
github.com/Room-11/StackChat/commit/… @Sean, I missed it because of no type inference so I added so @vars
 
2:04 PM
@PaulCrovella Nice!
 
@DaveRandom That's what you get from clever code...
 
No, it's what you get from shitty weak types
 
Anonymous
/cc @bwoebi
 
that's what you get from no typing at all?
 
I can "inspect" the src/ dirs of both Jeeves and StackChat and get zero issues, that makes it an actually useful tool. If you don't keep it at zero then it's not such a useful tool.
however when you have vars with unknown types it does become problematic
@bwoebi true
also I hate that API, I always feel dirty when I use list()
 
2:09 PM
You should
That's what I actually meant with clever code
s/clever/stupid
:P
 
The thing is that retval legitimately is a tuple
 
I would rather wrap it in an object in that case instead of dicking around with list
imo ymmv ianad
 
In general yes, but a whole VO class for the retval of a single private helper routine is a step too far IMO
If we have private classes it might be a different story...
 
Morning! Anyone know the difference b/t PHP_DEBUG & ZEND_DEBUG? As far as I can tell ZEND_DEBUG is the one I need to check with #ifdef when using the --enable-debug flag
 
Just a way to docblock tuples would be better though...
!!lxr PHP_DEBUG
 
2:12 PM
[ /main/php.h#61 ] #define PHP_DEBUG ZEND_DEBUG
 
thought so @SammyK ^
there is literally no difference
 
@DaveRandom Thanks! I was kinda confused by this: lxr.room11.org/xref/php-src%40master/main/php.h#59-61
Also I'm guessing I should probably use #if ZEND_DEBUG instead of #ifdef ZEND_DEBUG
 
I think the idea is that you use ZEND_DEBUG in Zend/ and PHP_DEBUG everywhere (?) else
Like in an extension you definitely use PHP_DEBUG
 
@DaveRandom Coolio - I'm working in the CLI SAPI so I think I'll use PHP_DEBUG
 
And yes, it's #if rather than #ifdef
 
2:18 PM
Thanks! :)
 
@DaveRandom what's the issue with list()?
 
@Gordon I am not that interested in them. Not for the 50% discount.
 
except that you cannot type it currently?
 
@bwoebi The actual problem is the method returning two values as an array
 
why is that a problem?
 
2:19 PM
s/an array/an untyped structure/
 
Because it can by anything
 
46 secs ago, by bwoebi
except that you cannot type it currently?
 
@bwoebi Yes that
 
I have no issue with it other than that, but that is a big issue (for me)
Strong types make for code that is easier to maintain
and bugs that are easier to find
I am aware that you are not exactly 100% on board with that approach though :-P
 
2:21 PM
@DaveRandom you mean strong as in strong vs dynamic?
 
@SammyK np, for ref there are a few things that are actually defined in Zend/ with ZEND_ prefixes and then copied into PHP_, e.g. ZEND_METHOD -> PHP_METHOD, the idea being that the zend engine is theoretically decoupled from PHP
 
types strong like bull
 
@bwoebi I mean strong as in "can be inferred by static analysis".
11 mins ago, by DaveRandom
Just a way to docblock tuples would be better though...
 
Ah fine.
 
@DaveRandom Ah, that's quite helpful - thanks! :)
 
2:24 PM
That would be an acceptable solution for me, I would happily use the list() approach if a static analyser can tell when the code doesn't conform
 
@Gordon most of my wishilst acts more like "bookmarks". And I only really want to play something like first 20-ish.
 
better tuple support would make me want structs less
 
@PaulCrovella Indeed, I have found that in an OO language that has structs (C#) I basically never actually use them. There are a very few cases where you want complex types with no reference semantics (a notable exception being dates/times)
Really what people mostly mean when they say they want structs is that they want complex structures with strong type semantics without the object overhead
(imho)
 
by-value semantics does cover much of the same ground that immutables would.. and just the name "struct" carries meaning that helps understand the code, but yeah
 
@Sean Nope, was super simple to get data back into the event loop
I think I showed it with one line of code (excluding autoloader) when my video gets put up
 
2:41 PM
!!rfcs
 
I will keep repinning message #36374250 until someone tells me to stop
 
\o/
 
OK fixed @Sean @PeeHaa @JayIsTooCommon
 
2:42 PM
@Jeeves stop it
 
@Gordon Why?
 
@Jeeves what does it matter to you? you are a bot.
 
@Gordon @‌jeeves what does it matter to you? No you are a bot.
 
lolwat
 
@Jeeves just stop it
 
2:43 PM
@Gordon You stop first.
 
@Jeeves ok
 
@Gordon I like your shoelaces.
 
@DaveRandom It's ok bro. I already updated the badge of blame :P
Not sure if some slang for drugs or sexgame
 
he's not really stopping, is he? He is a bloody liar.
 
uhhmm yes...
 
2:44 PM
3 messages moved to Trash
 
LOL
 
:P
 
jfc
@PeeHaa you updated the badge of shame but still not the phrasing above it.. wtf dude
 
I removed the 's from the badge though
:P
Stop pushing me around
jesus
 
in an effort to not fix that you made it less fun. gj.
 
Anonymous
2:52 PM
you're an absolute joke @PeeHaa
 
:'(
 
Anonymous
<3
 
but your mom is awesome
 
Damn as of today I have posted 150k messages in this room :P
And I am pretty sure they were all of high quality
 
does that include each edit you needed to unfuck them?
 
2:58 PM
you know we could run them through some sort of machine learning algorithm and prove you wrong in a whim, do you?
 
That would have added another 100k
Trying to find the only list somebody actually bothered to make a while back
I hate chat search
 

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