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9:00 PM
Dunno if you were ever on the inside of this Joe, but was there ever any intention of disclosing more info about the hack a few years back?
 
no idea about that, I think it was just forgotten more than anyone is trying to cover up what happened ...
 
all I've managed to dig up was that it was a server owned by Yahoo, running old FreeBSD, that nobody knew how to maintain
 
that's assuming we know what happened ... it seems altogether likely that we never really found out and just wiped the box ...
 
would still like the details
 
@Leigh Another reason to have them in a cluster manager :'(
 
9:06 PM
I don't disagree, costs money though
 
Not necessarily.
We use free cluster managers where I work.
 
I think it's over ... more than three hours after I started ...
 
But they do cost time ^_^
 
Right, the servers cost money
 
we have those
 
9:08 PM
I don't like the "donate a server" model, because people can pull out
 
apparently
 
Donate money, and pay for servers
 
money can also run out
 
We can run ads :)
 
I super hate that idea
 
9:09 PM
We can run two sets of ads!
 
oh, that's okay then ...
no, I still hate it ...
 
I'm fine with "donate a server" but I wish it was more like we had control of it and they happen to also have root on it, and since they physically still have it they can take back control should they ever need to.
 
set the box up at joe's, make systems fix his router
 
We can charge retrospective royalties for all of those fluffy elephants with a PHP logo on the side!
That is a problem, the donator maintaining root, on machines where we might have a security repo, or sign releases
 
@Leigh Does PHP even have the permission to use the font for the logo?
 
9:11 PM
... charitable donation
(I don't know)
 
@Leigh Signing releases shouldn't happen online.
 
Or... host downloadable files :)
 
If we can't trust the people donating hardware then... we're screwed anyway. And have been for years...
 
We can't trust them, we've just been lucky as far as we know
 
@JoeWatkins You mentioned DigitalOcean has offered some kind of service?
I assume there was something a bit more specific than that? Rough droplet count and specs or something?
 
9:18 PM
Mmm, yea an indication of what they're capable of would be helpful
 
@LeviMorrison you want to contact Peter, he told me about that
(salathe)
 
Cowburn?
 
Thanks.
 
ping @salathe :)
If only we really could summon people via the magic of @
2
 
9:20 PM
yes ... if only there really was magic in the world ...
wait ... that would be horrible ...
 
I put on my robe and wizard hat..
You'd get pretty travel sick pretty quickly, the amount of @'s you get :)
 
or at least I would, if I weren't sitting right here most of the day anyway
 
Well since we got onto the subject of real magic, I was thinking... physical summon
 
@LeviMorrison @salathe Hannes said it's probably a good idea to move the wiki to DO if we have boxes there.
 
wiki... reminds me... I need to vote on things
 
9:23 PM
physically being summoned to the interweb ...
 
would there be an opposite version of that? a physical goaway?
 
@kelunik hey, in the email I sent to Peter I specifically mentioned wiki and lxr :D
 
@PaulCrovella uhhh push notification?
 
@LeviMorrison I asked whether I can help. Let's see. Good night for now. o/
 
PoTCP/IP @Paul
nn niklas
 
Anonymous
9:26 PM
Evemong
 
indeed
 
@Wes on your RFC, did I read somewhere you were going to restrict the types more? The way it reads right now it will still allow objects, arrays, etc. as codes..
I'm kind of in the no camp. Even even allowing arbitrary strings could lead to some mad abuse
 
I like mad abuse
if we give it a fancy name, it sounds less abusive ... phragmatism ?
 
sounds almost erotic
 
sure, it can be erotic if you like
whatever phloats your boat
 
9:32 PM
Let me... phragmate with you
 
@LeviMorrison "You've got mail"
 
SUMMONING WORKED !!!11!!!!
 
You know what, that was a pretty decent latency on summoning
 
That's basically instant summoning.
 
has science gone too far?
 
9:34 PM
@salathe Woah!
Do we know why wiki is so slow?
 
I heard it's written in PHP @Levi
 
I imagine it's just got a slow HDD in it and the SSDs on DigitalOcean will be faster.
 
15 minutes at the speed of light you were... on Mars, with a few minutes before you realised you were summoned
Unless my maths is way off, I had 15 * 60 * k ~ 1.8 AU
 
nerd
 
Uhm, yes. Because one day we will live on Mars
 
9:39 PM
not me, I'm staying right here, where I can breathe ...
 
Unless you want to be left here with all of the Moustachio Rubiites
 
Oh nice... but uh, mars' distance from earth changes all the time :P
I wikipedia'd and got it wrong. I read 1.4 and assumed earth, it's 1.4 from the sun
 
pffft, good luck getting anyone to lay optical fibre to mars ...
 
@Leigh yes, it takes that into account
 
9:41 PM
so earth being 1 AU and mars 1.4- we go between 0.4 and 2.4 ...
lucky guess with 15 mins
god damnit wikipedia
Pluto (Kuiper belt object)
They don't even call it a dwarf planet anymore!
 
I think because there are so many objects of a similar size
 
@Leigh while you're here, do you remember some cryptopals answers?
 
@Trucy No, but I have a repo full of them that I can gaze upon
 
@Trucy Are you... detecting single-character XOR?
 
9:48 PM
I am
Er, no
 
Are you... stuck scoring
 
I'm decrypting single-character XOR
 
oh number 6? nice
 
But I just brute-forced the thing and parsed with my eyes
 
oh number 3? nice....ish
 
9:49 PM
I only began this evening :p
And I suck at python
…for now
 
So the way you're supposed to do it, is google for "letter frequency", go to wikipedia and get the english language letter frequency table
then xor your string with a candidate byte (0 through 255)
and score it based on weights
 
Wes
@Leigh i'm probably going to introduce PDOException->getPDOCode():string and have PDOException->getCode() to emit a deprecation warning. then in php8 getCode() will always return 0
 
Yup, I'm doing it
 
Ok, what were you stuck on then? :)
 
I already got the etaoin thing
I was stuck on "oh fuck I have to score some strings"
 
9:51 PM
@Wes Yea it was kind of a bad fit for the "codes" returned by DB drivers, but I just see it getting abused
 
I've had enough of today ... I'm going to give it 4 out of 10, and go to bed ... nn all
 
@JoeWatkins night J-Dog
 
But I just have to count how many times I got frequent letters and tada!
 
Wes
some have suggested that i should propose only string|int but that would make ocramius upset too :B
 
Whatever it is needs to be stringable.
 
Wes
9:53 PM
we should have an interface for __toString
 
string|(string)__toString
or string type should auto invoke __toString (does it do that already? I didn't test recently)
 
Wes
you mean with weak sth? i have no idea, i've never tried weak sth :B
 
Going out for a bit, need to locate food otherwise my dinner is going to be a bottle of rum
 
@Leigh calories are calories, tho
 
@Wes I'd prefer this.
 
Wes
10:09 PM
i'm still convinced it would be useful to have more than int for a property that is almost useless, but yeah...
 
@JoeWatkins What's the best way from the creating context have a thread execute some code?
That is, I want to call a method in the context that made the thread that then executes some other code in the thread.
 
@Wes did you close the vote? I was going to change mine
 
Wes
yo @marcio \o i didn't. i have no idea anymore because of ml problems. i've decided i would close the vote when people start complaining about it :B
 
btw, this should have passed just so we have an excuse to pass the enum RFC too ;)
 
Wes
eheh
 
10:13 PM
but perhaps it's easier to go the other way around and pass enums first so there will be a necessity to widen the return type of ->getCode()
 
We should just fix PDO as @Wes suggested and leave Throwable alone. Exceptions can be extended, so we don't need to try and cram other data into the code property just because it's there.
I don't really care that much though, so that's why I've abstained from the vote.
 
@Leigh solved exercise 3 :)
Good night r11ers!
 
@Trucy Good job, hang on to it because you'll need the scoring later
and night night
 
@Trowski Lately I only missed enums, if people want to stuff code objects on their exceptions for other reasons I actually don't mind much
 
@marcio Maybe enums could be accepted for int arguments?
 
10:23 PM
do you mean like casting?
 
@marcio I suppose it would have to cast, yes.
That might not be wise then… may be better to require an explicit (int) $enum cast as with objects having a __toString() method.
 
exactly, this idea came before but it would be inconsistent with how sth work with string and objects with __toString()
 
Anonymous
@PaulCrovella lol
 
@marcio So it could auto cast with wth, but fail with sth. That would make sense.
 
I'll take your stance on only fixing PDO. It's saner.
 
10:38 PM
@mcclure111 today in "W3C spec or RPG campaign world-building lore" https://t.co/VEysq0lNlf
 
11:14 PM
@Sara re-entrant means that hash_final() will be actually "get current hash", i.e. no actual finish, right?
That's not clear from RFC text itself …
 
It'll finalize it, but then it'll rollback to prefinal state.
 
ah
well, then I still prefer that apprach :-)
 
so ... any worthwhile anime this season?
 
@tereško Have you seen Ajin? I enjoyed the first season, but I was trying a new medication when the second season first came out, made me very sleepy all the time. Haven't had time to retry watching it yet.
 
This W3C spec reads like a text on gnostic mysticism https://t.co/CpIYdwrLRP
2
late brah!
Sorry, I'm mean :)
 
11:21 PM
!!xkcd 1053
 
@Dereleased dunno ... art style looks odd
 
@tereško I'll give you that, it's mostly fine, but some of the action sequences are a little... hm, how to describe. A bit like being on a roller-coaster? I think they made some of it with computahs
 
well, they all are made with computers
 
Trying to use

$str = addslashes('Gear & Apparel');
if (in_array($str, $cats)) {
return true;
} else {
return false;
}

When I var_dump($cats) I get: array(2) { [0]=> string(18) "Gear & Apparel" [1]=> string(7) "T Shirt" }

Anyone know why this keeps returning flase?
 
11:25 PM
why not return in_array($str, $cats)
 
@Jeeves Ok, next time, I'll feed you diet coke and mentos
 
@Leigh Because you can't drink mentos.
 
uhh wrong ping, but OK!
 
@tereško this is the gif that originally made me interested in the series: imgur.com/gallery/Oi0WpEb
 
I can return in_array() instead, tereško.

But my problem is that it keeps returning flase even though it should be true
 
11:26 PM
@Jeeves Sing a song for Danack
 
@Leigh Okay what song?
 
I was wondering if I was missing out on some nuance involved with escaping strings?
 
also, @user2800382, 3v4l.org
show us a live example in that site
 
@jeeves sing Eye of the Tiger for Danack
 
@Leigh It's the eye of the tiger, it's the cream of the figh.
 
11:26 PM
good enough!
 
@user2800382 Something else is wrong: 3v4l.org/1ShTN says you get true.
 
Damn!
 
Wes
string(18) "Gear & Apparel"
it's less than 18 characters
 
Is it possible that $cats contains: [ "Gear & Apparel", "T Shirt" ] . ?
 
Wes
$10 on that ^
 
11:28 PM
18... quite possible
 
ԍear & Apparel .. sneaky scammers
 
Sara
I think it is
 
((Wes and I know it is :p))
 
I get the categories from a wordpress query
so when i var_dump it I can't see the &amp
Sara
I think it is
 
11:29 PM
do you var_dump to... a web browser? :)
 
:D
 
@tereško I quite liked the Dio tribute album
 
I get the categories from a wordpress query
Lol yes I var_dump to a web browser
 
3v4l.org/h3trS . <--- Note the s/addslashes/htmlentites/
 
how should I do it from now on?
 
11:30 PM
Thanks Leigh, ended up porting the code from vbs code to php.
(And setting the arguments to the system clipboard.)
@Jeeves Was this optimal?
 
@TomasZubiri And the last known survivor stalks his prey in the night.
 
var_dump() is fine, but bear in mind you should view-source, since the browser will fool you on matters like this
 
@user2800382 or header('Content-Type: text/plain'); if you can
i.e. if you're not dumping in the middle of a page
 
^^ Though that's not always a usable option :)
Also: Get to know XDebug.
XDebug is amazeballs covered in gravy
 
See @Leigh, the song is now stuck in Jeevs head :-)
 
11:32 PM
@TomasZubiri wait... what?
 
xDebug
 
Wes
@Leigh i do too :B
but i use header("Content-type: text/plain"); :B
 
Thanks for the tips guys
 
@TomasZubiri do you mean now instead of doing shell_exec('vbs_script'); you're doing shell_exec('php_script');?
 
:+1:
 
11:33 PM
I kind of meant... ditch the shell_exec
 
@user2800382 if you can't use the content-type thing, you can always run your output through htmlentities(), though that'll require using output buffering.
@Sara You haven't seen what I've seen... it breaks down after a while
 
@Sara not phpdbg?
suppose xdebug at least lets you break mid http request
 
If your array delved too greedily, too deep... xdebug... oh god flaSHBACKS
 
there's an ini setting for that
 
So here's what went down. I was having a hard time testing my regexes. Since I am generating the patterns with variables and the texts are very long and stored in files.
So I made php call Selenium via a com object. it instances a new chrome window, goes to regex101. Pastes the contents of the regex call via sendkeys and voila. Regex with highlighting.
But since long texts took too long with sendkeys. I copied the long text into the windows clipboard and sent ctrl+V to the regex101 window.
The end.
@Jeeves Who is the last known survivor now?
 
11:36 PM
@TomasZubiri And he's watching us all with the eye of the tiger.
 
@TomasZubiri ....
that is batshit insane dude
 
I am aware.
Took me a day of development.
What would be a better solution?
 
so, there's regex flags that let you split your pattern over multiple lines and put comments in them. then you can test by feeding them into something like... preg_match
 
I feel as I explain more of the situation we are going to get into the even more batshit insane stuff I did.
 
11:40 PM
probably :)
maybe ask for advice sooner
 
@Leigh and now I am deep in 80s metal mines
 
So I have this pattern "#^($el)\t(?:($dt)\t)?($nm)\t($nm)\t(?:($nmp)\t)?$#uim"
 
it probably will be february, when I surface in this century again
 
I'll be honest, atm I only use phpdbg for its opcode output.
 
@tereško did you even look at that gif? How are you not impregnated with a deep curiosity about that behatted old man?
 
11:41 PM
@Sara pretty much the same, but I also have no idea what any of the other flags do
 
@Dereleased what gif?
 
:35155688 Maybe, the correct solution isn't to use regex, or maybe not to use regex for the whole thing
Because that looks like a debugging nightmare
I realise nearly everything I've said to you so far has been completely negative, sorry
 
@bwoebi FYI: Added a little text to the vote options to clarify your question: “Reentrant”: Apply both diffs in PR#2309 which will allow contexts to continue functioning after calling hash_final() **by effectively performing: $saved = hash_copy($ctx); $ret = hash_final($ctx); $ctx = $saved; **
 
@Leigh No worries. Maybe regex was my hammer and everything looked like a nail.
 
@Sara ++
 
@Sara You want to allow a hash context to continue accepting data after it has had final called on it? I can kind of see why you might want that, I also don't like it :x
 
@Leigh I'm torn atm tbqh (why I haven't cast that vote yet). It's more "objecty", but it departs from current hash behavior. It's the lesser issue of the RFC though, the primary issue is resource->object conversion.
 
If you continue using a finalised context, I'd say that's a higher chance of a bug than something intentional
 
@Leigh What other tools should I check out for parsing semi-formatted documents?
 
11:51 PM
Like I know if I finalise a hash such as sha-1 for example, a bunch of padding and stuff is added, final rounds carried out, I can't carry on using it
 
@Leigh Which is a good argument against. Are you on internals?
 
I am
 
@Leigh Which is why this works by saving the state, doing the final to get a digest, then restoring from the snapshot.
 
I get exactly why you save the state, but also that's why it's counter-intuitive to me
 
@Leigh I've been asking for comments on this for weeks now :p
 
11:53 PM
@TomasZubiri semi-formatted? malformed formatting?
@Sara I always seem to check internals while I'm walking :/
doesn't lend itself very well to replying
 
@Leigh ((I miss stuff all the time too :p))
Gmail has made this worse.
Everything is in another tab now "Forums" stuff
 
I have a skip inbox and apply label filter, so I have to make a conscious decision to check it
 
Documents formatted for humans rather than machines.
And sometimes mangled by pdf to text conversion.
How deep does the rabbit hole go?
 
@TomasZubiri Well the mangling is a problem, I'd recommend writing a stateful parser otherwise
 
you can turn those gmail tabs off, though I don't remember how I did it
 
11:56 PM
Yeah, I know I can, but I also kinda like the auto-sorting :p
 
There you go, I've cast one for frozen
In the result of a tie, I'll fight bwoebi
 
In the event of a tie, I'll cast my vote at the last minute.
Largely based on my opinion of the voters for each side. :p
So... frozen for now.
 

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