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4:00 PM
tl:dr version; the people who are in charge of the company, can't recognise what the actual problems the company has, and think that setting up a big new system (a big application) will solve all of the company' problems.
 
@Danack maybe it's time to get out of the company?
 
I... see
 
My company has high chances of disapearing in 3 years due to some laws. And the current president doesn't care because he won't be there anymore in 3 years.
 
You should forcefully make them read the book... somehow
 
And then they are surprised and amazed when i) the new system doesn't work very well. ii) it becomes obvious that they have spent a huge amount of money on something that doesn't work.
 
4:01 PM
sounds like they were visited by oracle
 
@Trucy yes, working on that right now.
 
Are you going to do it this time? :)
We're currently hiring for a systems guy, 2x data guy, and 2x junior PMs, if you think you can do any of those I'll happily recommend you
guy/girl
 
@PaulCrovella No, apigee which we are allegedly spending £20k a month on. For reasons no one can say.
 
Anonymous
@Leigh remote?
 
@JayIsTooCommon Not a chance
 
Anonymous
4:03 PM
You smell bad.
 
@Leigh I'm in the process....but probably need to stay in Bristol for reasons.
 
Working remote wouldn't be fun anyway, you'd miss out on all the free food, drink, and partying
@Danack You took on a new apartment recently right?
 
Yep, and am currently really enjoying living in a decent place by myself....
 
Is there any particular reason we can't just call rewind(), current(), etc on Traversable?
It's obviously doable in internals which is why IteratorIterator is a thing.
 
@Ekin My "product owner" has my spare copy right now.....but it's kind of too late.
 
Anonymous
4:05 PM
@Leigh i know but London. You could move your offices to Devon, if that's alright. Then I can consider
 
I got a weird problem today, all my links in my local website opens in a new tab (my javascript is disable, there isn't any "target='blank'", and it happen in all my browsers) have you ever get that type of behavior ?
 
@JayIsTooCommon What's keeping you in Devon?
 
@Danack Yeah, sounded like it is late indeed. Best of luck for a better environment/work.
 
@AllanRaquin yeah, when the control key is stuck down.
 
@Danack Ahah nice guess, but it isn't :(
 
Anonymous
4:07 PM
@Leigh 2 dogs, girlfriend, fam, friends
 
You have a girlfriend now?
grats ;)
 
Anonymous
it's your mother.
 
I wondered why she sounded so cheerful, bit of young meat keeping her active
 
Anonymous
I'll still go out with you if you're interested though, nobody can beat that beard.
 
@AllanRaquin your control key is stuck
 
4:09 PM
@JayIsTooCommon I need to keep growing it so when I go bald I can do a real mans combover
 
Anonymous
lol
 
@Rovak I wish it was that :(
 
4:27 PM
Does anyone here use bitbucket for anything other than private repositories?
 
<timeout, the next, incoming>
 
Connection to tcp://nevis.krakjoe.ninja:80 failed: timeout exceeded (30000 ms)
 
Welcome to nginx!
aaaaaand
Timetogohomeletsgetthefuckoutofthisworkplace
(and see you this evening dear r11ers)
 
so ... I can't even restrict the server (or anything else) to one line so that incoming connections are routable ...
 
4:31 PM
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: nginx/1.10.0 (Ubuntu)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 16:31:04 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Last-Modified: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 14:14:53 GMT
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
Connection: keep-alive
ETag: W/"5863c8dd-264"
Content-Encoding: gzip
 
GRRRRRR ... RRRR
 
if it makes you feel better 86 times out for me
 
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: nginx/1.10.0 (Ubuntu)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 16:32:50 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Last-Modified: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 14:14:53 GMT
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
Connection: keep-alive
ETag: W/"5863c8dd-264"
Content-Encoding: gzip
 
</quit>
if it doesn't work, it doesn't work ...
good enough
 
4:35 PM
Both welcomed me
 
I guess it is a bad dual wan router, machines on the network can use both lines, except the server can't accept incoming on both lines (at least not for everyone) ... this has taken up so much time, I really do quit ... I don't even want to spend any more money ...
 
#Laravel ... can a Route::get('/transaction/{name}', 'TransactionController@download') if in the download function there is a storage_path() . $name be exploited?
 
@JoeWatkins Some "dual-wan" routers use "dual" to mean it accepts both coax/rj11 connections
not necessarily two connections at the same time
Can you get a refund on your Asus? :P
 
bought it second hand ... no it really is a dual wan router
part of the problem is that some settings require a reboot of the router, you configure it, then it reboots and gets another address, and you just end up in a vicious circle of rebooting ... and then BT start throttling because it doesn't like all the negotiation
 
4:40 PM
did you work out where the connection was timing out? at the home hubs or the asus?
 
apparently at the router, so chris said
 
oh wait hang on, for some reason I thought you were using two home hub modems and then putting both of those into your asus router.
confused now why rebooting the router would get you new ip addresses
 
Because of DHCP.
 
and yes lots of reboots is bad for the training period on your new line
 
no ditched those, got tplink routers, put them in bridged mode, so the asus router is negotiating vdsl
 
4:42 PM
this is starting to sound more complicated than it should have been...
 
for sure, but the simple way didn't work either ... not with bt hardware, not with new hardware .... just had 'nuff now, I get to use both lines on my machine, the server will use both lines outbound, good enough ...
 
@LeviMorrison
 
@LeviMorrison yeah, stupid void
 
No I want my function to return null, and only null, because that is meaningful
 
4:48 PM
can't tell if serious
 
Me, rarely
 
:P
 
Anyone else experiencing that composer does not install deps when requiring a package from a vcs repo?
 
4:50 PM
@Leigh I recommend supporting function getAnswer() : 42 {} as a new return type
 
hint, you forgot the title
 
lol
 
@Ekin tnx :)
 
4:51 PM
:-)
 
Also tnx @JoeWatkins for making it sane :P
 
I'm becoming addicted to clicking on things in github
 
@NikiC constant return types, brilliant! Think of the optimisations we can do
class Thing { function getName(): "MyThing"; } ... mind blown
 
Leigh I recommend supporting function getAnswer() : 42 {} as a new return type
 
4:53 PM
Like run the application as part of the compile step.
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa it should still work :( will test laters
 
@JayIsTooCommon ohai what a coincidence. I was just talking about you :P
 
Anonymous
:P
 
:D
 
Anonymous
@Ekin you rusting tonight?
 
4:53 PM
Possibly
 
!!issue !!issue should work without a title.
 
@Sean Sorry, you're not cool enough to do that :(
 
m9
 
!!admin add 2274710
 
User added to the admin list.
 
4:54 PM
I hate you so much Jay
:P
!!issue !!issue should work without a title.
 
lol
Probably the transcript unwrapper has an issue
 
Anonymous
:P - up to now, !!issue has mainly be used to log issues about !!issue
 
:D
 
!!...
 
4:55 PM
@Sean why?
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa and yes, because it should of resolved github.com/Room-11/Jeeves/issues/138 this for body
 
...
 
Anonymous
probs wrong regex
 
Because Jay said it should still work without one, though you do raise a good point
 
!!help issue
!!issue
 
4:56 PM
@JoeWatkins Usage: !!issue [<title> - <body>]
 
If there's no title then what the hell should the issue title be?
 
Somewhat related: maybe we can drop the title - desc syntax
Hear me out all
What if we just grab the first characters / sentence from the issue as title automagically?
And the title + rest as body?
 
Unless it's !!issue title [description]
 
Anonymous
@Sean no, it just isn't accepting a chat url as a title :P It definitely needs a title
 
!!issue @Jeeves replyto - @Jeeves does not always post responses in reply, he should .... probably @Jay's fault
 
4:57 PM
@JoeWatkins What is your question?
@JoeWatkins Issue created - github.com/Room-11/Jeeves/issues/140
 
wtfingfing f is going on there ?
 
Errrr that's both cleverbot as well as issue at the same time
 
Anonymous
it should also pick up GH usernames if you have it in your SO profile
 
Weird
 
Not so clever now are we
 
4:58 PM
running it for all teh plugins it can?
 
Looks like it
 
Anonymous
oh it did! haha, room-11
 
Although I think I started out once with a bail out on hit
 
!!issue Jeeves appears drunk and belligerent - belligerence and stupidity a nice bot do not make
 
4:59 PM
@JoeWatkins Issue created - github.com/Room-11/Jeeves/issues/141
 
:D
 
!!admin remove 1658631
 
@PeeHaa User is a room owner and has implicit admin rights.
 
:P
Damn you dave
 
Anonymous
eh, how do you follow tail journalctl?
 
5:01 PM
-f
 
Anonymous
lies.
 
journalctl -u servicename -f
Also --since="datetime"
For anything else ask @Ekin she understand it all
 
One question, there is three shapes for "write" verb: {write, wrote, written} .. Now I need those three shapes for "speak" verb. Does anybody know them?
 
@Shafizadeh There is also chris wright
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa thank you sir
 
5:02 PM
But mostly it's chris wrong
 
Anonymous
@Shafizadeh speak spoke spoken
 
@PeeHaa I don't get it ..!
@JayIsTooCommon thx
 
speak, spoke, and spoken .. shapes is the wrong word
 
Anonymous
2 hours ago, by JayIsTooCommon
back off Joe..
 
@JoeWatkins You just waited for jay to give you the answer
 
5:03 PM
@JoeWatkins Ah .. "option" is correct? or even "case" ?
 
weak
 
things are happening in a strange order, I just missed that one @Jay
 
brb shop for food n beer
 
Anonymous
@Shafizadeh probably just 'words'
 
Ah, thx
 
5:07 PM
@JoeWatkins Spake
Does jeeves have a command for word definitions?
 
Anonymous
!!define
 
Anonymous
!!command list
 
@Leigh don't think we do yet
 
@Leigh Speaketh ...
 
!!conjugate would've been more useful here
 
5:09 PM
2 messages moved to Trash
 
Anonymous
it'd be cool though
 
Yes @Leigh please
 
Nah, too much spam as it is
Also I'd clearly backdoor it
 
Anonymous
@Jeeves don't listen to him :( Your backdoor is safe
 
@JayIsTooCommon What don't I listen to?
 
Anonymous
5:11 PM
exactly.
 
!!urban backdoor
 
[ backdoor ] The anus, vis-a-vis [anal sex].
 
@Jeeves Sing a song for Jay
 
@Leigh What song do you like?
 
there's your command for word definitions, btw
 
5:11 PM
@Jeeves Sing a song by Taylor Swift for Jay
 
@Leigh Don't listen to taylor swift.
 
@JoeWatkins maybe you are interessted in it: http://contribute.jquery.org/repo-maintainers-guide/
its rather easy to squash commits locally before merge.
 
sure, but why should I do the leg work :)
 
;)
 
@Jeeves sing me a song
 
5:14 PM
@Leigh What kind of song?
 
@Jeeves Bohemian Rhapsody
 
@Tiffany I don't know that. Sorry.
 
Jeeves got rubbish, the last time I asked him to he did
Jan 14 at 0:54, by Jeeves
@Leigh 'Baby you light up my world like nobody else, the way you flip your hair gets me overwhelmed'.
@jeeves We didn't start the fire
 
@Leigh It was already burning.
 
I 'member that ... twas a special day ...
 
5:17 PM
@Jeeves Sing me a song, you're a singer
 
@Ekin In the jungle the mighty jungle, sing along!
 
lol
 
awemba-way, awemba-way, awemba-way.......
 
lol
 
:D
 
5:18 PM
I saw Dan in my head doing it ...
 
I was about to hit enter..
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins in a loin cloth ?
 
Anonymous
oh wrong dan...
 
@JoeWatkins I would say depending on Sodium Compat at this stage is not a good idea. It isn't even close to a fully stable representation of libsodium, we don't know how the API for libsodium will look if it is accepted in, and, critically, re-implementing crypto primitives in PHP does not necessarily give them the same security guarantees as the reference code they came from
 
sounds reasonable ... I've very clueless about security stuff ... just liked the Canadian translation comment ...
do speaking you should ...
 
5:22 PM
I like to stick to my short bursts of criticism
(or praise)
 
to the point is a good thing ... maybe just voice that opinion, so that it's heard ...
 
@Leigh Yes, why is there a push to get it into wordpress at this stage?
 
I'm persuaded that doing something is a good idea, because 27% ubiquity, ddos, infrastructure, and so on ...
how difficult would it really be on the kind of hosts that provide wordpress services to compromise them to the point where you can fake the cert successfully ... I would guess not all that hard ...
still, what do I know ... I can't even set up a ruddy router ...
 
@kelunik because wordpress
 
@Leigh Isn't Scott doing that push?
 
5:28 PM
No idea
The lib is too immature to be used for anything right now, that is my opinion.
Regardless of who is pushing
 
Same here. I know that Scott said it will get an external review before 1.0 and before being used in WP.
 
now which lib are we talking about, compat or libsodium ?
 
compat
 
ok
what are wps current requirements ?
(php version)
 
But at least they prominently recommend 7.0 now.
 
5:36 PM
yeah ... but ... but ... I ...
 
Guys, have you used interface so far? I myself believe that is useless in practice (in terms of functional)
 
I wonder what part of 5.2.3 just isn't good enough for them, the snobs.
 
@Shafizadeh Why do you think it is useless?
 
@Leigh well today I was reading about it .. it just makes PHP glorious. But I think it never happens that someone needs to create an interface ..
 
I knew it was going to be some 5 version ... but, it's so unreasonable to advertise that your software supports running on unsupported, unmaintained software ... you can't say that ...
> it just makes PHP glorious
3
somebody star it before it gets lost ...
 
5:43 PM
Any suggestions on API design what status code to return if a resource is temporarily not available. IE a daily limit has been reached, come back later
 
@kelunik The problem here is that I know in advance, I can't be bothered with the fallout if I go and announce that I feel that this compat lib is actively harmful (I feel the same way about most PHP "security" libraries) - Having a library that does userland crypto, no problem, label it as "probably not secure, do not use in production". Pushing for it to be used in a major project, not cool.
 
scott is friendly to us @Leigh ... try having a conversation with him about it
 
I know he is
 
@JoeWatkins :-)
 
tbh, as someone who has a clue, you have a duty to say something ... you should not make excuses ... there doesn't need to be fallout, there can just be a conversation between two clued up individuals about a complex thing that most people don't really know about ...
 
5:46 PM
@Moak 429 for rate limits
 
@Shafizadeh Did you ever use ArrayAccess? Countable? Traversable?
 
what you are saying is obviously right, but having shared your opinion for the last ten minutes, I can't go and make a case to anyone ... you need to do it, because you can defend it ...
 
@Leigh hmm, not really
 
I considered it, but isn't a rate limit just for specific user using to many requests? @PaulCrovella
The situation would be multiple users trying to get a limited resource... Maybe rate limit does apply
 
@Shafizadeh What about Throwable?
 
5:48 PM
@JoeWatkins I'm getting a segfault in my extension upon tsrm shutdown due to an invalid dtor ptr (pertaining to the PHP_GSHUTDOWN_FUNCTION function). This only occurs when I dynamically link my extension. Nullifying the globals shutdown function works, but obviously the extension leaks then. Did you encounter a similar problem with pthreads?
 
show me code
 
@Leigh ok I got your point .. you're trying to say I'm newbie !!
 
@Shafizadeh I'm saying you probably use them, and you don't realise it
 
alright :-)
 
@Moak just use 400 and specify errors in the body of the response in a unified error-format of your application, HTTP codes don't cover all your application-level errors
 
5:50 PM
@Moak tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6585#page-3 "an origin server that is limiting request rates can do so based upon counts of requests on a per-resource basis"
 
right
> The 429 status code indicates that the user has sent too many
requests in a given amount of time
in this case the user was not at fault
 
@JoeWatkins That's a little difficult, I'd have to show you the whole extension (which I haven't yet put on github). I wondered if the usage of ZEND_MODULE_POST_ZEND_DEACTIVATE_N in pthreads was related to this?
 
@Shafizadeh Here's a really good example. The Monolog library. There is a LoggerInterface. Now the Logger might log to a database, to a file, to the console, but they all implement LoggerInterface. So your application doesn't need to know about all of these different ways to log something, it just has to know how to use LoggerInterface
 
thanks for the feedback @nikita2206 and @PaulCrovella
 
@Moak oh sorry, I misread your message there. yeah, use 400.
 
5:53 PM
@Leigh I see
 
@tpunt that's just a resources hack, to destroy at the correct time during shutdown
I don't use GINIT/GSHUTDOWN (in anything afair) ... I can't remember the reason why though ...
 
Ah, right. I'm about to go out now, but if I don't make any progress on this later tonight, I'll invite you to a private repo tomorrow.
 
To be fair, I could probably move the stuff in GINIT/GSHUTDOWN to MINIT/MSHUTDOWN
 
probably, or R equiv
 
5:59 PM
hello, I have a problem, can any one please help me here
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/41703663/search-in-a-laravel-collection
 
Yep, moving to minit/mshutdown works. It also solved the weird illegal instruction error I was receiving on unlocking a mutex...
 
I'm claiming http 419 - Come back later
 
are you targeting non-cli sapis @tpunt ?
1) mutex is scary, 2) in a prefork sapi (ex. mod_php), minit/mshutdown may give you surprising behaviour ..
I gots to go afk now, but stuff to think about maybe ;)
lata all
 
Anonymous
@Jimbo you won't believe this, but I got an internship but I must pass a simple test. The test is to create a Symfony app that fetches twitter hashtags like #symfony ... half an hour later I found your repo through an SO answer and had a wtf!! moment :)
 
Anonymous
The tough part was using www.turnkeylinux.org now I'm off to the twitter to read on the api and stuff
 
6:07 PM
@JoeWatkins Absolutely not. This extension is limited to cli only :) It does similar things to pthreads (threading, where each threads executes PHP code), so from a technical perspective, it would not be suitable. From a practical perspective, it would also be unsuitable for a web server environment.
 
user895378
6:20 PM
"CLI only" <3
 
6:41 PM
@rdlowrey o/
 
user895378
o/
 
\o
 
@tpunt sounds scary, I like ...
 
7:02 PM
@JoeWatkins Well there you go, I said something, don't be disappointed if I don't reply to replies
 
I will be ... and will pester you some more to defend your position ...
 
My position may be... "ask me again when I'm drunker"
 
I can always wait for you to be drunker ...
 
user895378
^ @PeeHaa's mother's go-to pickup line
 
haha, also yo daniel ;)
 
7:11 PM
@Leigh Upvoted.
 
You know what would help with writing more secure userland PHP crypto code... inline functions :D
 
Oh god right now I'm playing with raw bits in hexadecimal and base64
It's awful
(I'm doing cryptopals.com)
 
Good! :)
If you get stuck, ping me, I've done most of it
 
7:26 PM
Well for now I'm wrapping my head around manipulating bytes in hex/base64
(I'm doing it in Python 3)
And I'm doing it because I saw you linked one of your repo which has something to do with it
 
@Trowski @bwoebi The wording on github.com/reactphp/promise/pull/78 seems to represent a rather negative mood against the interop thing.
 
Well, hex uses 4 bits per byte, base 64 uses 6 bits per byte. You probably want to start working in bits :)
Are you familiar with bitwise operators? (helpful ones here being and, or, left/right shift)
 
@Leigh I'm working with bits, I just had to remember how exactly hex and base64 encodings works
(and yes I'm familiar with bitwise operators)
(I mostly played with bits during my studies)
 
Alright, sounds like you're all set then
 
It's just the mix between "I have to rediscover python" + all this bytes mess that messes me up
But I think I've done the two first exercises
 
7:55 PM
Done \o/
 
I award you... a congratulatory cheese
 
le cheese
 
Glückwunschkäse?
 
8:01 PM
@kelunik At this point if it extends AsyncInterop\Promise, I really don't care what the docs say.
React/Promise is about the then()/done() interface, and they want to emphasize that. Seems fine by me.
 
@Leigh I don't understand why they ask to do a hex to base64 function
I directly worked with bytes for the xor
 
Connection to tcp://nevis.krakjoe.ninja:80 failed: timeout exceeded (30000 ms)
 
Connection to tcp://86.171.9.248:80 failed: timeout exceeded (30000 ms)
 
8:07 PM
@Trucy It's foundation bit manipulation.
It's the first challenge, it's supposed to be really easy
You'll do a lot more bit-fiddling later
 
Yeah but it's better to directly work with bits, not base64 bytes, isn't it?
 
Of course
 
I'm having way too many problems correctly escaping arguments when calling an external program through shell_exec()
 
Why do you need to call shell_exec?
 
I'm running a vbscript I wrote.
 
8:13 PM
Sounds horrible
 
I'm thinking of passing the arguments as files.
@Leigh Oh it is
 
Does escapeshellarg not work properly on windows?
 
Nope.
 
Not. Surprised.
What's wrong with it?
 
I found absolutely no way to pass an argument with double quotes and spaces in them.
 
8:16 PM
And your arguments are based on user-supplied input?
 
The following don't work "" \" and ^"
@Leigh Yes. And strings from files.
 
I would say, passing strings from files as a command line argument, is probably a bad idea
 
Excellent. I'll desist that route happily.
 
2 hours ... to tag a release ... even the parts of PHP that you never see are soooo broken ...
 
What should I do then? Write to a file and open it with vbs?
 
8:18 PM
Since you wrote the vbscript, I'll assume you're happy enough writing more of it. Would it be more sensible to just have the vbscript do all of the work?
 
Nope.
 
@JoeWatkins Oh, I've seen some of the bits people think nobody else looks at. Somewhere in the bowels of it I've seen RPM building scripts and the like
@TomasZubiri Ok, would it be more sensible to ditch the vb script and make PHP do all of the work? :)_
 
I can't login to any systems boxes this evening ... nobody knows why, jump boxes for eu have been down since forever, nobody knows why ... it's basically more of the same thing you see everywhere ... making a ten minute thing into a two hour thing ...
 
PHP. Foundation. Paid. Support.
I know, easily said
Maybe we could kickstarter a "better infrastructure for PHP" project
 
If I had more time I'd like to get all of our boxes into a cluster manager of some kind.
And containerize everything.
Not having control over the boxes is rough.
 
8:24 PM
@Leigh Actually Yeah. Wow I'm dumb.
 
this is the stuff of dreams ...
 
o.O that download bandwidth...
 
hehe
 
Hey Joe. Want to set up a registered charity?
We can call it the ElePhriends
And all of the money we raise can go to helping people move away from Laravel and other evils
 
people who use laravel deserve everything they get ...
2
 
8:31 PM
Reading on gov.uk, seems pretty easy to set up a charity.
 
@TomasZubiri stackoverflow.com/a/15262019/3942918 (in case you wanted more reason just to do it all in php)
 
The sheer size of that post convinced me
 
8:46 PM
is there anyone else that agrees that if a SQL query requires a UNION ALL or UNION, SQL is the wrong tool for the job? UNION may be fine, and I'm thinking of UNION ALL
I'm going by personal experience with a UNION ALL and what a friend iterated what one of his teachers said
 
i'm sure this will go well
 
That implies we actually own the hardware..?
 
it's ... still not over ...
 

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