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11:01 AM
Is it common that speakers need normal ticket for conferences?
 
@brzuchal No
 
Bring headphones at half a price.
 
@DejanMarjanovic omg it's still alive
 
@Jimbo I find your lack of a real ellipsis disturbing
 
Google bosnians near me and you're in surprise @PeeHaa
:*
 
11:04 AM
We have the war tribunal over here so I won't be surprised :P
 
@PeeHaa THX I always though that Poland is weird country, I had a moment of doubt.
 
Well played, Sir, well played…
 
oh hey @DejanMarjanovic is here
o/
 
@Gordon I was confused by @Leigh.. he asked me a question then said he'll shrink me
 
@DaveRandom \o/ here's both arms since I'm in Germany, could get weird :-P
 
11:06 AM
Damnit. You are getting a bit too close now
east or west germany?
 
The better part, east :-)
 
@DejanMarjanovic do me a favour? Go find @Ocramius and follow him around for a day, repeatedly asking him when he's going to close all his github issues.
 
@DejanMarjanovic :D
 
11:08 AM
I basically just tried to think of the most annoying thing he could do
 
Does cdn network make it faster if there is only <? echo "hello world"; ?> on the page ?
 
@Trowski Made it a bit stricter: github.com/amphp/parallel/commit/…
 
@kelunik What's the reason for the change on line 17?
Or even what's the reason for DIRECTORY_SEPARATOR
 
@PeeHaa Dunno, ask @Trowski, just left it there. ^^
 
@Trowski
 
11:16 AM
@PeeHaa Because we check for substrings of autoloaded files, those include the real paths IIRC.
 
can take a few years
 
@ADISbayrakcan cdn is for static content like: css, js, img etc. not for dynamic content
 
@kelunik That's actually the first valid use I have ever seen
 
@PeeHaa That's what I thought, too. :D
 
@DaveRandom technically, yes
 
11:21 AM
@PeeHaa actually it does make sense pretty much everywhere if you want to support windows, there are several edge cases where paths suddenly change to backslashes on windows (e.g. dirname('/'))
 
is any of you running a fcgi lighty combo with preforked workers and can tell me the process entry in ps aux?
 
@Wes oh, you discovered the gc…
 
@DaveRandom ...
 
@DaveRandom in 99% of the cases you just don't care
 
Wes
now i'm wondering, could it be that i need to call gc_collect_cycles more than one time?
 
11:22 AM
@JoeWatkins ?
 
109.158.188.5 86.171.9.224 port 8080
 
ah k
 
Wes
@bwoebi darn it
 
@Wes where?
 
Wes
i'm asking you people @bwoebi could such a case happen?
 
11:24 AM
@Wes what case?
 
@DaveRandom No, paths are automatically translated to use \\ instead of / on Windows.
 
Wes
that despite i call that, destructor is not called? 3v4l.org/hL7id
 
D:\>php -r "echo dirname('/foo/bar');"
/foo
D:\>php -r "echo dirname('/foo');"
\
D:\>php -r "echo dirname('/');"
\
@kelunik ^
yes, windows is fucking annoying
 
@DaveRandom But you don't care about that
 
Most of the time
sometimes it matters
I only know that because of something I did once where it mattered
 
11:30 AM
yes
 
I forget exactly what
 
13 mins ago, by kelunik
@PeeHaa Because we check for substrings of autoloaded files, those include the real paths IIRC.
 
Wireless networks ... https://t.co/HAAwUS2O30
 
@DaveRandom What does Windows even do with \ or /?
 
Anonymous
did you fix the issue in the end?
 
11:31 AM
@kelunik root of current working drive
 
@JayIsTooCommon chris is going to do it ...
 
@kelunik isn't composer's vendor dir configurable?
 
@PaulCrovella Yes, it accounts for that.
 
@JoeWatkins so, do you know what the cause for this issue is?
 
@bwoebi no clue
we thought we knew, but now we/I don't ...
chris has a much better handle on it than me ... so he's remote administering things
 
11:34 AM
@PaulCrovella If it's directly the package, we know the name, if it's installed as dependency, there's no vendor in the path, we only go up to $vendor-dir, no matter how it's named.
 
gotcha
 
@StefanoTorresi I think we need more consumers like you in the interop process, currently we have mostly maintainers of the packages only.
 
Anonymous
@JoeWatkins hide your nudez
 
@JoeWatkins or not
 
@kelunik will try to bring some from the FIG list.
 
11:41 AM
@JayIsTooCommon ha
@PeeHaa got further than I did on my own ... we are down to one network from three now ... which should make it easier ...
 
@StefanoTorresi Are they interested in async too and have a little experience with it in PHP?
 
@JoeWatkins Was more hinting at not hiding you nudez. But good to know any way :)
 
haha
 
@bwoebi most definitely, async-interop will probably be proposed as PSR once we deal with the ones currently in pipeline.
 
@JoeWatkins my understanding is that the wifi signal is strongest in the plane at right angles to the antenna, which means that at least some of those antennae should be set at right angles to the other ones.
 
11:43 AM
Hey guys, I'm having an argument with my dev team and I'm losing
 
@Danack you know what ... they are bridged vdsl modems only ... the wireless router is not even in the ruddy photo :D
 
The ZF2 standards say: If a class name is comprised of more than one word, the first letter of each new word must be capitalized. Successive capitalized letters are not allowed, e.g. a class “ZendPDF” is not allowed while “ZendPdf” is acceptable.
 
@StefanoTorresi Oh god
 
Which I agree with, and are covered in this doc: framework.zend.com/manual/2.4/en/ref/coding.standard.html
But thinking about it, is there actually a reason, or a valid standard?
 
Convention is all the reason one needs me thinks
 
11:44 AM
@PeeHaa wat?
 
@StefanoTorresi We'll probably have a 1.0.0 before FIG will be a topic again.
 
I suppose, it stops any inconsistency and confusion - but can we think of any class autoloaders (such as PSR-4) which convert the case? Or do they all not care
 
@StefanoTorresi he means, we don't really need him, but pretend we do out of convention (and lack of proper spelling)
 
I personally just very much dislike fig touching async-interop besides contributing to it
 
Looking at the PSR-4 examples, they don't convert case whatsoever: php-fig.org/psr/psr-4/examples
 
11:46 AM
of course, container-interop demonstrated that the php-fig org is not necessary to adopt a standard, nevertheless it drives adoption further.
 
And why is that?
 
also, it is kind of elitist, "get off my interops"...
 
It's no mine for starters
And nothing elitist at all and saying that is silly
 
because there are people like me actively advocating for PSRs
 
@OliverTappin why would a class loader convert case?
 
11:48 AM
@StefanoTorresi well, fig itself is a bit of an elitist circle
 
@StefanoTorresi So? Do I have to agree?
 
@PeeHaa ofc not. you're free to do as you wish :p
@bwoebi yea i know, we're trying to be less so.
 
You still didn't answer my question about the why and adoption btw
 
i did, people advocate for PSRs, thus they spread the word and drive adoption.
 
Advocating for psrs does nothing for adoption
It does everything for fig / psrs
 
11:50 AM
@StefanoTorresi But usually for specific PSRs, not PSRs in general.
 
@kelunik both
@PeeHaa I'm not sure I understand your argument.
 
@StefanoTorresi The thing is that async doesn't really fit in the FIG currently, as everything there is sync and isn't compatible with async.
 
ok @JoeWatkins I would suggest rebooting the asus first, but I suspect the TP-link boxes may be fucking with it in some way
 
@Danack, I wasn't sure if it did, it might be good to keep to strict standards
 
Saying fig needs to touch it because of adoption is weird is all I'm saying
 
11:51 AM
@StefanoTorresi apart from 0, 2 and 4 - which ones have widespread adoption? And how does that compare with the scenario in which all the time spent talking, was instead spent writing code to make bridges/bundles for people to use.
 
@Danack 3, 7
 
@DaveRandom ok, you logout
 
I can't stand "standards" that are ambiguous. If you're going to have a standard, cover everything, and be extremely strict, or what's the point
 
@OliverTappin they're separate things.....which is good as it allows people to evolve their code/standards.
 
@JoeWatkins out
failing that, log in the to the TP-links and make sure that their firewalls are entirely disabled
 
11:52 AM
But that's not really a standard then, is it. It's more of an abstract standard for others to extend
Or a 'guide'
 
@StefanoTorresi who are the potential adopters that fig would drive to async-interop by virtue of making it a psr?
 
It's a reference implementation, which is what PSR-7 probably should have been.
 
Ambiguous standards leads to this: xkcd.com/927
 
@OliverTappin Not ambiguous, but multiple specs.
 
@kelunik why doesn't it fit? FIG is not about any given technicality, it's about making standards. if it can be a standard, it fits.
 
11:54 AM
@StefanoTorresi Because it's not compatible with most PSRs.
 
who cares?
 
That's why it doesn't fit.
 
also @JoeWatkins make sure that remote administration ports are not intercepting things or something on those boxes, I find it highly suspicious that the issue seems to be reversed for each WAN, I'm wondering if those boxes are intercepting 80 and/or 8080. I might expect them to do different things because you factory defaulted one of them but not the other last night
 
more to the point, should it be?
 
@StefanoTorresi It doesn't make sense for FIG to have two logging PSRs.
 
11:56 AM
Also make sure RIP is disabled on all of them, that could do all sorts of weird things in this case
 
@kelunik we already have 2 autoloaders, 1 is deprecated
what makes any other standard different?
 
@DaveRandom How come you know so much about so many different things?
 
@StefanoTorresi Yes, but an async log PSR won't deprecate the sync one.
 
you deprecate stuff, make room to new stuff
 
@DaveRandom well ssh is doing same
 
11:57 AM
@kelunik you can make a standard that supports both and deprecate the old one with it.
 
@StefanoTorresi No, you can't really do that. While sync can use async, it doesn't make sense to complicate things for sync.
 
And this is exactly the reason I dislike it...
/me grabs food
 
@JoeWatkins did you disable remote admin? Also did the WAN IP addresses change?
I'm now seeing different behaviour
 
Meanwhile in a BT office somewhere: "Hey, do you remember that guy that twitter shamed us about the static IPs?" "Yeah! A Joe something" "Exactly! I've been messing with his routes for the last couple of days while he's trying to set it up"
 
i don't see why you guys are cutting the discussion so short. things will be proposed, then decisions will be taken. i don't see much wrong in having all the standards under the same umbrella org.
 
12:02 PM
yeah, did disable remote, don't know if ips changed, one sec ...
 
@iroegbu I have no life.
 
fw is disabled on first line modem
 
Anonymous
@pmmaga lol
 
109.158.188.92
 
@JoeWatkins errr wat?
 
12:03 PM
86.171.9.224
 
oh right
I read that as "firmware"
 
> Roadsend PHP, freely available from code.roadsend.com/pcc, is an alternative implementation of PHP that works with lighttpd. It can run PHP code directly (as Zend PHP does), but it can also compile PHP code directly to native FastCGI binaries.
 
@JoeWatkins in a way it's the second one I'm more interested in anyway, although something interesting has happened, in that now I can hit both 80 and 8080 on 86. and nothing on 109.
although I can ping both
 
@StefanoTorresi I don't see what fig brings to the table. Your argument for putting all standards under fig basically amounts to "why not?" which isn't compelling.
 
no fw on second line
 
12:07 PM
@PaulCrovella Thank you
 
@PaulCrovella the main argument is that fig reaches more people, but it looks like you lot do not fancy this aspect.
 
@JoeWatkins if I was there, here's what I would do: update all devices to latest firmware (if not already), factory default them all, reconfigure from scratch. There's been so much fucking around with them over last day or two that if may have hit some kind of edge case bug in one or more devices where the config looks right in the UI but makes no sense when loaded underneath
wouldn't be the first time that's happened to me
essentially a hardcore "turn it off and on again"
After that I would fuck around with seeing what happens when only 1 WAN is connected
 
I only got the tplink boxes yesterday evening ...
 
Oh wait in fact @JoeWatkins, try switching the WANs
@JoeWatkins I'm more concerned about the asus there
But try switching the physical links for the wans
 
@PaulCrovella also, getting a bunch of people involved with the standard can deliver value, unless you think that all the FIG is incompetent.
 
12:10 PM
Either the problem will stay the same, or it will switch places
which will tell you whether it's the TP or the asus
 
@StefanoTorresi async interop accepts contributors just fine
 
again, I don't see where the "get off my project" attitude should go.
 
Again not my project
 
switched ...
 
12:12 PM
@StefanoTorresi y'all can get involved without trying to take it over
 
@StefanoTorresi Did you take part in the caching discussion? It was .....not productive. And for whatever reason, there are multiple people in the FIG who produce more noise than signal. It's really not a productive group for actually accomplishing technically difficult designs.
 
@JoeWatkins OK, current WAN IPs? The 86. still loads, has the other one changed?
(the fact that 86. still loads in the other port suggests the TP link on the other one is to blame)
 
@Danack I understand, duly noted. Not everything the group will ever produce will be perfect, or even good, but we try to learn from mistakes. Poor standards will be eventually dropped in favor of better ones.
 
didn't take adsl down, just switched rj45s to asus
@DejanMarjanovic ohai
 
@PaulCrovella we don't take over, I would suggest to read how the whole Working Group thing works.
 
12:14 PM
@JoeWatkins right, but the PPPoE will have been renegotiated, since the asus is now in charge of that step, so you may have new WAN IPs
 
@StefanoTorresi has the dysfunction within the organization been dropped?
 
p: 86.171.9.224
s: 109.157.245.213
 
@PaulCrovella we're in transition.
bbl, food time.
 
I can feel this ageing me ...
 
> Poor standards will be eventually dropped in favor of better ones.
But the aenergy required to produce multiple versions of a standard through FIG is multiple orders higher than having a group focused on a single technical spec, and being able to rapidly iterate on it.
 
12:15 PM
@JoeWatkins OK and the s: is the one that was in the primary until a minute ago? i.e. it's the one that you didn't factory reset last night?
 
yes
 
OK, factory default it
 
okay ... I .... don't know which one it is
 
@StefanoTorresi btw this book:
is probably required reading for everyone involved in things like FIG
 
@JoeWatkins trace the cable from the secondary wan, i.e. the one that's plugged into the LAN
 
12:17 PM
> * One of the problems that a system creates is that it becomes an entity onto itself that not only persists but expands and encroaches on areas beyond the original system's purview.
> * Not only do systems expand well beyond their original goals, but as they evolve they tend to oppose even their own original goals.
 
When it comes up, the only thing you need to do is give it a non-conflicting LAN IP address in 192.168.2.0/24, disable DHCP, and go through the "quick start" thing and set it to bridge mode
 
reboot asus ?
says it's disconnected
 
@StefanoTorresi I couldn't care less how fig's "working group thing" "works" as you haven't sold fig itself well at all. You claim it has some sort of nebulous "reach", but cant say who it'll reach or how, leaving the question up in the air why exactly that'd be worth taking on fig's baggage.
 
@JoeWatkins did you set the wan on tp-link to bridge mode?
 
the idea seems to be that fig makes standards, so if there's a standard to be made fig should be involved.. which is nonsense
 
12:27 PM
oh you need to set the virtual circuit thing to 101
ugh
 
if you have the thing accessible on your lan I can tv in if you like
 
I don't, using lasses laptop
 
12:32 PM
ncf.ca/ncf/support/w/images/thumb/2/2e/Td-w9970_bridge1.png/… <-- on that screen, you need to set the ISP to "other", L2 type to "vdsl", vlan id to "101" and connection type to "bridge" @JoeWatkins
those are the only settings that really matter, although I recommend you set the LAN IP 192.168.2.3 so you can access the web interface on the LAN
(set the other TP-link to 192.168.2.2)
that will need 2 cables though, as discussed last night
not sure whether that will confuse it, will need to experiment with it, so maybe ignore that part for now
 
p: 86.171.9.224
s: 109.158.188.93
 
winner
port 80 loads on both \o/
although jeeves doesn't like it apparently
 
only getting 109 here
 
I think there may be a bug in jeeves
 
Connection to tcp://86.171.9.224:80 failed: timeout exceeded (30000 ms)
 
12:37 PM
ffs
yep, browser cache :-/
OK so if you swap them round again (RJ45s like you did before) does the situation reverse?
 
p: 109.158.18.66
 
Also, if you don't might me saying, AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggghhhhhzomgwtfbbq
 
s: 86.171.9.224
@DaveRandom inorite ... sorry for wasting so much time ... this should be simple :(
 
yes that has now reversed
So it must be the asus
 
12:41 PM
I guess it just can't do port forwarding with dual wan ?
 
Firmware, factory default, reconfigure
 
the fw is latest already, done it before we started any of this
 
@JoeWatkins it can. I am 100% certain of that, otherwise the internet would be full of people complaining about it, which it isn't
 
how many people are really using dual wan though ?
 
I've found several forum posts of people describing how to set it up, which is exactly how it is set up
 
12:42 PM
this is not business equipment, and dual wan is usually business stuff
 
> Port forwarding is common for both the WANs. So you can specify a port number/range only once in port forwarding list. So forwarding the same port to different client based on WAN is not possible
i.e. it's not possible to route based on which WAN, both WANs should be treated the same
hence I suspect that at some point when it's been reconfigured it's got itself into an invalid state
hence factory default and start again, with the correct config first time
also firmware upgrade if one is available, it could just be a bug in the firmware you have
 
(latest firmware already)
it's going to boot me offline ... so type out what I need to know ?
 
Solved it
0
A: Doctrine - Make changes to child in ArrayCollection. Persist parent. Child changes are not persisted

JimboLooking at the method signature of EntityManager::flush yields the following information: Flushes all changes to objects that have been queued up to now to the database. This effectively synchronizes the in-memory state of managed objects with the database. If an entity is explicitly passed t...

/cc @Leigh
 
@JoeWatkins Everything you need to know is on the WAN configuration pages, screenshot them
basically PPPoE with username/password of btbroadband@btbroadband.com/BT
There was some setting at the bottom that's enabled by default which I disabled
I forget what it was called
but everything else you can just leave as default
I think it was something to do with a VPN
 
user7172542
If I have a table showing products from my database and I wanted to change the price variable based on a <input type="number" /> field, what is the best way to do that?
 
12:58 PM
python-eve.org anything similar for PHP?
 
1:12 PM
apigility maybe?
 
@DejanMarjanovic not joking, probably just laravel?
 
yah, pretty much apigility there
 
1:27 PM
I've got non working stream_wrapper and need help 3v4l.org/ISuCn
None of stream wrapper methods display any dump, why?
 
> I've got non working stream_wrapper and need help
that's an assertion, not a question
of course you need help, since you implemented a stream wrapper
 
I wrote later in second msg
OMFG
 
(yes, I'm in one of my "being useful" days)
 
@Ocramius How's this any different as usual?
 
so anyone implementing stream wrapper has problems ?
 
1:29 PM
Sorry. Don't see it :P
 
@brzuchal I did, and I must say that I have problems
not sure if I can always generalize
 
I hate everything and everyone
4
 
@Ocr
 
@JoeWatkins visit ocrami.us for some chill time
 
@JoeWatkins it didn't go well then?
 
1:33 PM
@PeeHaa well, I'm not gonna be useful to you anyway
 
@DaveRandom nope
 
/me got some connection problems again
 
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: nginx/1.10.0 (Ubuntu)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 13:34:29 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Last-Modified: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 14:14:53 GMT
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
Connection: keep-alive
ETag: W/"5863c8dd-264"
Content-Encoding: gzip
 
...
 
1:35 PM
omg what the actual shit
 
Connection to tcp://86.171.255.53:80 failed: timeout exceeded (30000 ms)
 
@Ocramius I wanted to use League\Filesystem to wrap my application directory to app:/ protocol but found out it's not working with is_dir and mkdir so was going to write pure one and can't get eny debug from it ;/
 
wait that actually does load for me @JoeWatkins
however the 109 does not
I'm sure it just did
 
Request must specify a valid HTTP URI
 
1:36 PM
Connection to tcp://86.171.255.53:80 failed: timeout exceeded (30000 ms)
 
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: nginx/1.10.0 (Ubuntu)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 13:36:56 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Last-Modified: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 14:14:53 GMT
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
Connection: keep-alive
ETag: W/"5863c8dd-264"
Content-Encoding: gzip
 
but for me it is reversed
what the fuck
 
Connection to tcp://86.171.255.53:80 failed: timeout exceeded (30000 ms)
 
yet I can ping both of them
 
1:37 PM
@DaveRandom you're on the other side of the IJL
 
this is fucking so exhausting
 
@PaulCrovella nope, no idea what ijl means :-P
 
@brzuchal I'm also doing some filesystem-based operations, and I simply skipped on mocking them
because many internal functions simply don't work with it
 
@DaveRandom international joe line ...
 
I errr... OK
seriously though, I'm coming from just as much outside the BT network as anyone else
oh wait no I actually can't ping 86.171.255.53
 
1:40 PM
Is this a good example to explain the concept of interface in PHP?
 
can't ping either, I guess wan ping disabled
 
if it helps, for me tracerouting both IPs times out from onwards:
10 195.99.127.99 (195.99.127.99) 11.304 ms 195.99.127.195 (195.99.127.195) 10.465 ms 195.99.127.199 (195.99.127.199) 6.803 ms
 
yeh BTs routers don't all respond to ICMP of any kind
 
wan ping enabled btw
 
@Ocramius that's a pity, I wanted to make my life easier so wouldn't need to use __DIR__ based paths anymore
 
1:43 PM
@DaveRandom I wonder whats in all of those funky routing tables
 
I moved everything to __DIR__. Simpler to statically analyze /cc @brzuchal
non-absolute paths are generally a smell in my current code
 
E_NOT_CONSOLE
 
@Ocramius <3
 
@Shafizadeh Yeah it's fine. Although, try to choose a naming convention and stick to it, don't mix multiple.
 
@PaulCrovella I'm not here to sell anything. You're the one who made the assumption that FIG would take over, while you don't really know/care about how it works. I'm not interested in changing your mind, I was just talking about the possibility of async-interop becoming a PSR, since the FIG is where that idea came from in the first place: groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/php-fig/wzQWpLvNSjs.
 
1:50 PM
@Ocramius I <3 your site
@JoeWatkins still having network problems?
 
there, there. Have a cup of tea.
 
@JoeWatkins are you sure WAN ping is enabled btw?
 
(having mysql problems here. Because my project manager wants a DB diagram designed on MySQL workbench. The DB is on PostgreSQL.)
 
I stand by my theory:
http://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/11?m=35143127#35143127
 
1:52 PM
@Trucy it's useful
 
@DaveRandom checked tpl1/2
 
@Ocramius of course it's useful, you can do EVERYTHING
 
@JoeWatkins no it would be the asus
The tpls are just being modems now
 
@StefanoTorresi okay, well good luck with your transition then.
 
crap
 
1:53 PM
they don't have WAN IPs and in theory they shouldn't be paying any attention whatsoever to the traffic
 
was disabled on asus ...
try now
 
OK so I can ping both
therefore it cannot be an internet routing issue
 
<BTguy> hold up, someone's trying to fix Joe Whatshisname network. Unfuck it for a couple of hours then refuck it when he's done
 
OK so @PaulCrovella which IP works for you?
 
@DaveRandom 109
 
1:57 PM
@PaulCrovella OK, what's the first octet of your IP address?
I have a weird theory
 
@Ocramius fount out something is working when // added to uri as "aaa://test" instead of "aaa:/test", will spend some time for it
 
@DaveRandom 76
 
nope, not that then :-P
 
@PaulCrovella thanks, I hope you'll re-evaluate your opinion in the future.
 

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