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12:01 PM
OOP feels like it progresses/changes faster than I can learn it.
 
Sem
@HamZa Are you afraid of OOP? It's just a way to manage your code in multiple files. (Maybe I'm oversimplifying it though)
 
@Gordon, I wonder - how PHP stores constant things? (and in which moment they are evaluated) - i.e. static methods/properties, for example
 
@Sem no, not afraid. I've actually bought a book and started learning it. In fact I think I've got an advantage of most HBO students
 
@Gordon I've read all of this because i have configured rest of website, i write here what i mean: My json data in sql field is: [{"name":"Sort group","value":1,"target":null,"alias":"extra_fields","required":0,"showNull":0},{"name":"Destructive system","value":2,"target":null,"alias":"extra_fields","required":0,"showNull":0}]
And item in db has: [{"id":"6","value":["2"]},{"id":"5","value":["1"]}]
Can i compare it with if?
 
Sem
@HamZa If you really really really want to learn it you might want to practice by making your own little MVC framework.
 
12:04 PM
@AlmaDoMundo if you want the nitty gritty details @NikiC or anyone else working on internals is likely a better person to ask that
 
@Gordon ok, thanks
I understand how it is done in compiled languages (in Java, for example), and was wondering if it is a similar mechanism in PHP
 
@MirkoSimic uhm, why did you put the Json into a column? And wouldn't a NoSQL database with map/reduce be more practical if you really need it to be there?
 
constants are set in executor globals during compilation stage
 
@AlmaDoMundo Constants are either set during compilation or - if they depend on other constants - on the first use of the class
 
class constants stored in entry ...
and ^^
 
12:09 PM
@NikiC - I mean not only constants, but also all static things
where and when are they evaluated? how are they represented in byte-code after interpreting the code?
 
PHP doesn't have bytecode, compiled languages have bytecode, PHP has opcodes, I would differentiate between the two
 
@AlmaDoMundo static methods in PHP are handled in the same way as non-static
"static" means nothing more than "does not use $this" really
 
@JoeWatkins great, clarify - that would be useful for me
 
everything, every variable is a zval, or wrapper around a zval like zend_constant ...
 
12:11 PM
i tested on my computer, it works fine.are you sure you defined your array correctly? — Alireza Fallah 2 hours ago
 
@NikiC what? i.e. they are not stored somewhere?
 
@Fabien Thanks!
 
@AlmaDoMundo They are stored in the function table of the class entry
 
@NikiC - but you've said there's no difference. In Java, for example, normal methods will be stored with instance and static methods - in class (and with constant offset)
 
12:13 PM
Standard JSON extension has been removed from PHP 5.5: iteration99.com/2013/php-json-removed-from-php-5-5
 
@JoeWatkins in practice, I don't think it makes much sense to distinguish the two. Because unless that bytecode is native machine instructions (not for a VM), then it doesn't make much sense. Example: Java is definitely compiled, but what it generates is definitely blurred...
@MichaelIrigoyen no it hasn't
 
posted on August 20, 2013 by Liip

I'm happy to announce a new feature that will be available in Symfony 2.4: You can automatically show your log messages in the console output of commands. This eases giving feedback in your console commands dramatically. Before I show you how to use this feature, let's take a look at what problem it solves. When you want to output text to the console you usually used the OutputInterface insta

 
bytecode I think of as native machine instructions, but yeah the line is blurred I guess ....
oh god how many more people are going to blog about that before actually just looking at ext/json in the distributed archive from php.net ...
 
> The original author of the license has purposely chosen this form of license to trick open source projects into mistaking it as an open source license. He did this to prove the point that "those open source guys are entitled kids" and plays the issue for amusement: youtube.com/watch?v=-hCimLnIsDA
Asshole.
 
user652649
@MichaelIrigoyen wtf?
 
12:16 PM
@Gordon i know, but the DB structure isn't from me, i must work with that what i have :(
 
I just upgraded to latest 5.5 and my json_encode and json_decode functions are now throwing errors, found that article in my troubleshooting.
 
@Fabien - no
 
@Fabien Did you read the article?
 
@AlmaDoMundo PHP stores all methods in the class entry
The instance only stored which class entry it was instantiated from
 
12:18 PM
It's their sensationalist title, I get that.
 
And yes, in PHP at least there is very little difference between a static and a non-static method. It's just a flag, basically
 
> Wow. Some people have tiny minds. Anyway, why anyone would want to use JSON instead of a formal self-describing schema like XML is beyond me. Probably because PHP developers aren’t that smart.
 
@NikiC i.e. non-static methods are stored in class definition block?
 
@NikiC likes this comment.
 
@webarto I saw that comment too, wtf
JSON > XML, any day of the week
 
12:19 PM
@MichaelIrigoyen srsly?
:P
 
For web services, yes
 
@MichaelIrigoyen XJSON to the rescue
 
jXJSON
 
if just JSON had a validation method...
 
It does, it's called "don't be a stupid developer and do it right"
:)
 
12:22 PM
@MichaelIrigoyen HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
you're funny :D
 
If you want validation you'll probably have to use XML. JSON is very lightweight compared to XML, but it's because it lacks stuff like validation against an XSD.
 
JSON and XML are both 100% perfectly valid formats
the one you choose depends on a whole lot of things. Not least of which is the requirements of the task at hand
 
@ircmaxell validated against a data structure
 
You're mocking me, arent' you? :P
 
@ircmaxell xml is almost never a valid format /me ducks for cover
 
12:22 PM
@Ocramius json_amidoinitrite()
 
@PeeHaa No, XML is fine. SOAP is never valid...
 
SOAP is the spawn of satan
2
 
@ircmaxell I think we can agree on that :)
 
SOAP makes no sense indeed
especially all the exceptions stuff
 
12:23 PM
@ircmaxell Agreed, they both fill important roles. I'm happy enough with both. Unless the S word gets mentioned... shudder
 
Besides is cleansing abilities, and by cleansing abilities, I'm talking about actual soap
 
:-P
 
@MichaelIrigoyen Disagree.
 
@webarto Whoa where?!
 
If you've ever delt with a large volume of data serialized into some format, XML with a good sane DTD makes life SOOOOOOOOOO much easier
 
12:25 PM
SOAP: the only technology developers won't argue over whether it sucks since 1998
 
@irc
damnit
 
XSD validation is one of the things XML had that's a big plus against JSON. Having said that it's really easy to build heavyweight XML formats
 
@NikiC here
 
Sem
@ircmaxell Mind telling me a situation where you prefer XML over JSON? Aside from the reason that other systems you need to communicate with require that syntax.
 
12:26 PM
omfg wtf stupid
 
@ircmaxell I agree, XML and JSON both have their places, I just much prefer dealing with JSON
 
I like XML more than JSON for most things, except for web uses (because of XMLs verbosity and filesizes).
 
You can implement your own validation for JSON on the PHP side of course, but you also have to implement it in anything else that may be using your data format. If you have an XSD then any programming language with competent XML support can validate against your format.
@SweetieBelle pretty much said what I was thinking.
 
XSD is just that good. :P
 
@Sem anywhere you got a dataset transmitted between two systems and don't want to spend your lifetime writing a validator for it
 
12:28 PM
SOAP's badness is overrated, if you've ever used XML-RPC you'll long for SOAP.
 
@Sem also: autocompletion in your IDE
 
@MichaelIrigoyen for small sets of data, absolutely agree
 
I thought there was a zero-tolerance policy on SOAP in here. ;)
 
@Sem the example I gave. When you have large amount of data where writing a spec and a validator would be a nightmare if it wasn't for DTD validation
@salathe :-P
 
@salathe let's all reinvent some new JSON-RPC format based on the hypermedia API...
 
12:29 PM
You want true awfulness in an XML wrapper? Try BPEL. Some moron thought implementing a programming language in XML was a good idea. The fact that his fellow developers didn't shoot him through the lungs for daring to suggest it makes them just as complicit and they should all be hung upside down in boiling marmalade for their sins.
 
let's...














































not.
 
@salathe LOL
 
@GordonM well, XSLT is still awesome for huge datasets :P
aaaaaaaaaaaaand it's turing complete
/me ducks
 
Sem
Guess I´m not fammiliar with any type of validation in either XML or JSON :) Noob alert
 
can't we create, json to xml and vice-versa?
 
12:30 PM
XSLT is a good tool if you wish to go crazy
 
@NikiC agree
@Ocramius yeah... no... sorry. can't go that far...
 
I don't really understand why SOAP gets so much hate. It's bulky and ugly but it does the job.
 
@NikiC - thanks, anyway. Now I've found another broken thing in PHP :p
 
@NikiC XSLT 1.0 is sane enough
 
12:31 PM
@Ocramius XSLT actually makes some kind of sense in some contexts. BPEL would make Cthulhu weep tears of jealous admiration.
 
/me is off to the office, later
 
@NikiC nah... if you receive 10 gigs of dump you really don't want to apply all the transformations in your own code base
 
@AlmaDoMundo which?
 
@SweetieBelle Because it's bulky and ugly :)
 
@MichaelIrigoyen So is C. :P
 
12:32 PM
@SweetieBelle Haters gonna hate.
 
@NikiC - well static methods of cause (which are actually usual, but with flag).
 
@SweetieBelle I seen a some jobs description that you need SOAP experience. really silly
 
can i read mails & download attachments automatically
 
@Ocramius and if you try to do any non-trivial transformation XSLT you will definitely go crazy. I know this, I tried.
 
sweetie, people use minified js to reduce js also which is small and ugly
 
12:32 PM
actually, now that I think of it, there's native XML support in E4X
 
@SweetieBelle You might get some argument on that statement :)
 
@AlmaDoMundo What's wrong with that?
 
@user1246800 If you've ever used SOAP you'll know why they want you to have SOAP experience. It's not particularly intuitive.
 
@NikiC yes, but it's fine for reducing values or templating imo
 
I had to dive into Google's XSLT for results pages on a GSA once, I wanted to pull my hair out
 
12:33 PM
@NikiC - they're ok, it's just sad that they are no different from normal methods
 
@AlmaDoMundo But why would they have to be different? I don't really get what you mean here...
 
seme webservices only provide SOAP, not json, so you have to use SOAP only
 
XML in and of itself is in no way evil. Just like chainsaws and hockey masks are in no way intrinsically evil either. It's just the uses people put them to.
 
@GordonM Right, and XML has a lot of good uses as well.
 
12:35 PM
I like Json.
 
@SweetieBelle But documentation is quite clear, is not it?
 
I love lamp.
 
@Leri SOAP documentation? Yes, it's very clear.
 
Sem
I love Windows 8
 
12:36 PM
@SweetieBelle that's a joke, right?
 
some saying i love json, some SOAP, other i love windows 8 so i may say, i love ice-cream :P
 
@NikiC No, why would it be a joke?
 
I love CAKE!
 
Nobody really knows how to use SOAP. There is a new trend on how to correctly do it every year. (Or do I mistake something here?)
 
Huh?
 
12:38 PM
@NikiC The spec hasn't changed in about 5 years, there was a period with a lot of upheaval.
 
The cake is a lie.
 
I just have a quick read about SOAP - I have no reason to learn it...I dont haved any purpose for that
 
The primary reason for SOAP (and BPEL and WSDL and the rest of the constellation of related standards) is to keep SOAP consultants employed. It's the ultimate in job security.
 
@user1246800 Hope that you never do.
 
12:39 PM
I like to learn REST though
I never played with it.
 
I've used SOAP before, it's bulky.
 
I guess, I am the only one who thinks that SOAP should not be thrown away. /me hides
 
I don't think it should be thrown away either. It's good for what it does: mission critical API interfaces.
 
It seems like every time I try to do something with SOAP, there's at least one problem I have that results in me having to manually create an envelope by hand to resolve the issue, I don't know if it's bad documentation, my utter hatred and stubbornness to try and learn it properly or what, but I depise web services that utilize it.
 
12:40 PM
hmm
 
i have used SOAP web service as a client and got right response from server, and i don't need all that SOAP specification, all w3c specifications are so lengthy and such compicated language, i feel bored, and don't dare to read
 
Hello, How are you.
guys
 
@SweetieBelle I think I meant this one: wanderingbarque.com/nonintersecting/2006/11/15/… ^^
 
@web2students.com I had to refactor a SOAP API once (from provider POV).
 
Funny, the two jobs I had before my current one felt exactly like that from the start
 
12:43 PM
hi rafee, i am fine and you?
 
I am doing good,
 
Anonymous
@SweetieBelle what is that thing called when you get image cordinates from a big image file with tiny sprites in css?
 
@SweetieBelle nice :P , they would be thankful to you
 
@Simon_eQ sprites?
 
I have a doubt.
 
Anonymous
12:45 PM
@HamZa yup!
 
@Simon_eQ Haha, you said "sprites" in your question
 
II have XAMPP Stack already installed on Windows.
Now, If i installed ZenServer 6.1, will there be any problem with ports or any other problem.
 
Anonymous
Oh, shittt! I answered my own question.
 
@Simon_eQ lol
 
Anonymous
I knew sprites from gamemaker lol
 
12:46 PM
I was confused really xD
 
@Simon_eQ It's called inefficient, usually. :P
 
Anonymous
When you create games you begin with sprites i.e. tiny images
 
Anonymous
Don't stone me to death for that one ^
 
12:48 PM
@Simon_eQ w3fools.com
 
heh
 
Anonymous
@SweetieBelle I knew about that one. But, they have made changes. come on people.
 
Yeah, poor w3schools. They have partially made us what we are today, for better or for worse.
 
@Simon_eQ No way, w3schools.com will never be a reputable source of information. Their reputation is way too tarnished.
 
lol
 
12:49 PM
There's no coming back from that.
 
@MichaelIrigoyen If they wikify and accept user content I'll give them a chance.
 
Anonymous
@MichaelIrigoyen In all honesy, their tutorial is so begginer-friendly. I say, it is fine to start with it, for mostly non-technial people
 
@SweetieBelle Yeah, maybe. They need to completely rebrand and do something different. The fact that they hold themselves as an authoritative source of information with branding to makes it look like they are affiliated with the W3C is just plain unethical and damaging to new developers.
 
@Simon_eQ And lose 1-2 years in realizing that they need to study instead of copy/pasting code.
 
I often wonder why people still insist on using date(), even when it is the wrong tool for the job.
http://stackoverflow.com/q/18357054/212940
 
12:51 PM
@Simon_eQ Please stop
 
@Simon_eQ No it's terrible to start with
 
@vascowhite What about ... REGEX !!!
0
Q: How to increment date using regex

5tar-KasterSo, I have a spinEdit that should display the year and month in this format yyyyMM. I am using RegEx to mask the value to that format but when I want to increment from say 201212 to 201301, it fails and displays 20121. The RegEx I am using looks like this ([0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9])(0[1-9])|(1[0-2]) ...

 
Beginners have no clue what vulnerabilities and terrible practices they are being thought
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa or so you thought
 
@Simon_eQ ?
 
12:53 PM
@Simon_eQ Their tutorial teaches horrible practices which have to be unlearned. That's not useful to newcomers.
 
@HamZa I must admit to being a bit wary of REGEX, it seems a bit like black magic :). I think it is probably a bit over used too.
 
@vascowhite A lot of people are intimidated by regex, but it's not over used. If anything it's under used.
 
There's no reason to be using regex to increment a date, that's what DateTime is for, it's so overlooked by new PHP developers and it really should be the de facto from the start.
 
@SweetieBelle Sorry, but using regex to increment a date ?
 
@HamZa No, I wouldn't use it to increment a date. :P
 
12:55 PM
@SweetieBelle I use it when I have to, but I find I don't need to that often.
 
^ that
 
string validation, some trivial parsing and some dirty, one-time stuff, these are the only places where regex should be used in real-world, imho.
 
how to include/import IMAP Function, I've uncommented its extension in php.ini
 
Usually regex should be used when there is no other defined way to handle something, it's used where more dedicated functions don't exist.
3
Mainly that's going to be parsing/validation.
 
gah
 
12:59 PM
dedicated meaning one specific function?
 
Can anyone link me to an image that's just within the 2mb file upload limit php has?
1.9MB is great, can't find one anywhere
 
ie 2 functions achieve what can be done in 1 regex. use 1 regex. But if it can be done in 1 function, use the function?
 
@Jimbo Go in Photoshop, create at 2600x1800
That's about 1.8MB
in JPG full quality
 
@SweetieBelle Totally agree with this.
 
@Jimbo This is 1.5MB if that helps: pbs.twimg.com/media/BQrhIBaCYAArODw.png:large
You could upscale it by 25% and you'd hit around 1.9
 
1:04 PM
@Simon_eQ begginers can't be choosers?
 
@SweetieBelle Y U NO open it in a hex editor and pad it with zero's :p
I see that people aren't confident in closing Joomla questions ...
 
I'm confident closing that :P
 
@Jimbo The limit can be configured. It's not set in stone, just in php.ini
 
@Fabien Regex is your fallback way to deal with data. When dealing with a custom string it allows you to customize the way you want to handle it.
 
@GordonM Not on a sandbox (semi-live) server it can't :P
Staging really, so can't change ini settings - making sure something works
 
1:08 PM
@SweetieBelle lol, I really don't want to go after the Joomla or WP tag, because I'm certain I will use all my votes and waste my sanity
 
@HamZa Yeah, same
I avoid those tags like the plague (I also don't use Joomla or WP)
 
I've noticed a great deal of topics under usually belong on wordpress.stackexchange.com
 
@MichaelIrigoyen yup, but sometimes I really don't know whether it should go there or not ...
 
I've noticed a lot of the WP questions aren't programming questions.
 
1:18 PM
@SweetieBelle lol, which means they should go to WP.SE ?
 
Anonymous
@GordonM there is no begging involved.
 
@Gordon Do you have an opinion on this?
 
Sem
@Gordon I've seen that before and was thinking about using it. But backslashes in class names still feels very odd.
 
@Gordon It's a bit late for April Fool's jokes isn't it?
 
1:23 PM
@Sem Namespaces?
 
@webarto I find it interesting but I doubt it will get much traction. If it does, I'll definitely not be an early adopter
 
Yo ho ho
 
Sem
@webarto yes, new MyProject\Users\Guest() looks kinda weird don't ya think?
 
Wtf.. 70.9k close votes queue.. this morning this was 70.6.. is this "normal" flow? Or a spamrun of some kind ? (I haven't been paying attention to this number before)
 
@Gordon I imagine there are 100 websites that could profit from "PHP to C", for others, it's not worth it, IMHO. Unless you are f* good at C.
 
1:25 PM
@DamienOvereem yes - it's normal.
 
 
madness ..
 
Oh, yo ho ho, nvm
 
Sem
@Jimbo Now that's what I call pure win.
 
@Sem Not really, it does have a purpose, you don't have to use it, tho: php.net/manual/en/language.namespaces.php
 
1:26 PM
Looking classy @ircmaxell
 
If you want that picture, just google "ircmaxell santa" - it's on the first page of images
 
@Jimbo that's not yohoho. that's ircmarxell! the archenemy of batprogrammer
 
Let's get it to first when you search his name
 
except it's not santa
 
1:27 PM
Not santa.
 
@Gordon Got confused with "ho ho ho"
That is totally a santa beard + haircut!
 
It's Karl Marx!
 
Sem
@webarto Guess I have the same problem you have, only namespaces instead of dots.
 
user image
7
 
Sem
@webarto LOL
 
1:29 PM
@webarto you found me out!
 
LMAO
 
There used to be that subject in schools 40 years ago.
 
spammeRz
 
user652649
@webarto LOL
 
1:34 PM
haha
 
It was pretty trivial @karlmaxell
 
@webarto Edit: NVM you're in yugoslavia
 
@Jimbo EXACTLY
 
@webarto virtual presence device?
 
Money aside, I can't travel anywhere without visa really.
 
1:36 PM
How'd you manage that?
North korea?
Oh can't :( bad misread :(
 
@webarto Rubbish, anyone can get into the UK! In fact, come in jobless and we'll give you free housing and monies!
 
You can go quite a few places with EU passport.
 
@Fabien it's not EU passport, it's Bosnia, which is asshole of Europe.
 
:( sad times
 
Thought that was France?
 
1:38 PM
:)
Annnnnd, that's why I'm finishing college.
So I can get citizenship of your country and steal your money.
 
I'm aiming for Canada in a few years
 
Really? Why is that, mate?
> location Vienna, Austria
feels much better, yeah
 
Which country?
 
BC
 
@webarto I do that too! And I don't need any citizenship!
how awesome is that? Getting in your home, stealing all your goodies <_<
 
1:41 PM
@webarto Never been, but I see pics of a beatiful county
 
@Ocramius you live in Axis country and you come from Axis country!
 
@webarto Vancouver = not touched by recession, absolutely amazing country, clean, area I want to go to has no such thing as CHAVS!! British girls love English accents, I have family over there and just over the border...
 
@Jimbo That's true, mate, quality of life > everything.
 
@webarto yes, but I aspire to steal from more countries. I started from the USA this week
=D
 
Yeah Canada is high on a lot of peoples lists
 
1:43 PM
I <3 USA. I <3 USA. I <3 USA.
 
Have you been?
 
Sorry, I <3 $, I <3 $, I <3 $.
 
Tho, my salary is 10% less per year because it's not stable.
So if I get 10% raise, I'm even, which sucks.
 
hey guys!
anyone know why when I try to do $emails = imap_search($this->connection, "SINCE \"$this->day\""); where $this->day = date('d M Y'); I just get a few 'today-mails' insted of 'all-today' mails. thank's in advance!
 
1:46 PM
+ inflation
 
@webarto You love jQuery? :p
 
@Leri Yes, from the first moment.
yesterday, by webarto
user image
 
Sem
@Leri Same here, as long as javascript doesn't support getElementByClass();
 
I f* hate most of jQuery users.
 
@webarto +1 haha
 
1:49 PM
@webarto heh
@Sem Well, javascript should not be supporting it.
 
@Sem getElementsByClassName?
 
Sem
@webarto Not usable in IE7/IE8 caniuse.com/getelementsbyclassname
@Leri Why not man.. why
 
@Sem Because class name is not unique per document, which means document may have sever objects with the same class.
 
Yes, appears so. I don't care about that usually, tho.
 
Ah I wish I could get the name of the mod who declined my flag ...
 
Sem
1:53 PM
@Leri Ah ye sorry I meant Elements instead of element, used to do ElementById :D
 
@webarto Now that's something I can drink to.
 
@Sem Also since IE 8 you can do document.querySelector.
 
What's the problem with jQuery... it's very useful.
 
@Orangepill Exactly that. In most case it's overly powerful.
 
@webarto does it by any chance say: "scientific marxism"?
 
Sem
1:55 PM
@Leri IE7 is not dead yet so it'll have to wait, thanks for showing though. Didn't know that one.
 
There's nothing wrong with jQuery. It's users thing it's fucking magical and cry when it can't do something.
 
jQuery is magical
5
 
@tereško marxism and art/kunst
 
@Sem Whenever I start new web project, I say I won't support IE 7. It's nonsense optimizing site for technology that will outdate soon.
It's just me, of course.
 
Sem
@Leri It's little effort to support even IE6 if you use jQuery 1.9.x :D
 
1:58 PM
lolwut
 
I won't spend outwards amount of time making a site work in IE7 or even 8, but I will at least make sure the content is somewhat readable. Aesthetically, though, it usually looks like dog vomit.
 
@tereško so what are your thoughts about scrum ?
 
@Sem I rarely touch front-end stuff. And when I do it's xhr stuff, so I use very little jQuery.
 
@HamZa I like the idea, but I have never seen it done right
 

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