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4:00 PM
Like you can have "yellow great tits"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes me too
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I read it as of "green" is a verb
 
Ven
@sehe i havn't seen anyone who can.
 
@thecoshman meat too
 
"green great dragons" is clearly a type of "great dragon" that is green
 
4:01 PM
@Ven Are you legally blind
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes the 'proper' order is more pleasing though
 
i am excited for my bottle of wine to DDoS the US https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/790506694002507777
 
@thecoshman That's the point. Two adjectives "cannot" be in this order, so the brain tries to shove them into different grammatical functions.
@thecoshman "yellow great tits" is the proper order if you're talking about great tits, the birds.
3
The great tit (Parus major) is a passerine bird in the tit family Paridae. It is a widespread and common species throughout Europe, the Middle East, Central and Northern Asia, and parts of North Africa where it is generally resident in any sort of woodland; most great tits do not migrate except in extremely harsh winters. Until 2005 this species was lumped with numerous other subspecies. DNA studies have shown these other subspecies to be distinctive from the great tit and these have now been separated as two distinct species, the cinereous tit of southern Asia, and the Japanese tit of East Asia...
 
Ven
@sehe yes
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes which I am, of course, not referring to
The blue-footed booby (Sula nebouxii) is a marine bird native to subtropical and tropical regions of the Pacific Ocean. It is one of six species of the genus Sula—known as boobies. It is easily recognizable by its distinctive bright blue feet, which is a sexually selected trait. Males display their feet in an elaborate mating ritual by lifting their feet up and down while strutting before the female. The female is slightly larger than the male and can measure up to 90 cm (35 in) long with a wingspan of up to 1.5 m (5 ft). The natural breeding habitats of the blue-footed booby are the tropical and...
Birds, great for a good old pun
 
4:05 PM
yeah, birds are good
better than many other animals
 
oh god :S I am now too aware of the orders of adjectives, I don't like this
The bushtits or long-tailed tits, Aegithalidae, are a family of small, drab passerine birds with moderately long tails. The family contains 11 species in four genera, all but one of which are found in Eurasia. Bushtits are active birds, moving almost constantly while they forage for insects in shrubs and trees. During non-breeding season, birds live in flocks of up to 50 individuals. Several bushtit species display cooperative breeding behavior, also called helpers at the nest. == Distribution and habitat == All the Aegithalidae are forest birds, particularly forest edge and understory habitats...
he he he, bushtits
3
 
@ProblemSlover Wow!
We are doomed.
 
@wilx glad at least someone checks the links I share here :P
 
@ProblemSlover I check them because I hope it is porn. :(
j/k :D
Well...half joking...
 
4:11 PM
here goes a C++ thing. Imagine you have auto p = f(); where f is unique_ptr<T> f(). One day some moron changes it to T* f(); and code still compiles but leaks. Is there a way to prevent this?
 
@wilx well fortunately i had closed xvideos tabs before posting :D
 
option 1: don't hire morons
option 2: fire morons
option 3: ???
 
@Abyx sue them
 
tits are great
 
@Abyx don't use auto there, but instead make it a unique_ptr<T> explicitly
 
4:16 PM
@ratchetfreak fired.
 
@Abyx Other than not using auto, no.
That's one of the problems with AAA.
Sometimes you want code to break. AAA is more likely to make it still compile.
 
I don't like using auto for things that manage resources
 
@Abyx I'd say code review is your best bet.
One issue with doing audio-related programming is that I can't listen to music while debugging.
Well, unless you count the random garbage I put together as a test as music.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes gsl::owned<T> and static analysis could help
 
@Abyx cod ereviews
 
4:21 PM
also, IIRC c++next will have std::unique_ptr p = f(); , no?
 
@Abyx If that prevents the moron from using T* in the first place, then yeah, I guess.
@Abyx Wait, what?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes inferring template args from ctor
which effectively would deprecate make_*, e.g. make_pair
 
@Abyx Amend laws so it's legal to torture somebody making such a change to the function?
 
Oh, like Java's <>?
 
4:24 PM
@JerryCoffin that won't prevent people from doing it, just give them another reason not to
 
@thecoshman It'll deter people from doing it (certainly from doing it more than once...)
 
@JerryCoffin deter != prevent
not in the strictest of sense anyway
 
@thecoshman I suppose instead of torture, we could impose the death penalty. Successfully applied, that would obviously prevent repeat offenses, anyway... :-)
 
Why brits call La Manche "the English Channel"?
it's half english, at most
 
4:41 PM
Does anybody know what happens if I call .lock_shared(), then .lock() and then .shared_lock().

Will the second .shared_lock() call be able to enter even though an exclusive lock has been requested?
 
user1804599
lock() will block until the shared lock is gone
 
@Abyx It was (probably) named when England ruled land on both sides of the Channel. Perhaps Brexit was to pave the way for England to invade and once again rule Brittany.
And in my continuing quest to piss off all of meta, today I've targeted Apple fanbois:
Getting rid of Apple would be a great thing (and I don't mean just the tag, either). In this case, re-tagging is unnecessary; a mass deletion loses nothing of value. :-) — Jerry Coffin 4 mins ago
 
@rightfold I know that, if .lock_shared() is called first, then .lock(). Will another .lock_shared() be able to enter if an exclusive .lock() has been reqeusted
 
> option 4. hire Donald J. Trump
@Abyx I'd say it "defines" GB more than it "defines" Europe.
Like the street of Gibraltar "defines" Gibraltar more than it "defines" Marocco or Spain
 
user1804599
4:58 PM
@KaareZ yes, it will
 
@JerryCoffin "Quoth" is very nice name for a tag excerpt
 
5:11 PM
@sehe Quoth the Raven: "Sure, why not?"
 
@Borgleader
-15
Q: Can someone help me on my assignment for Computer Science?

Adnan KhanThere are 8 looping problems which I need help on understanding the problem and writing the code down for each problem. I will provide below the description of the problems for all 8 problems. Create a loop which accepts integer input as long as input is even. Create a loop which accepts and a...

 
user1804599
> computer science
 
In the modern world of post-pussy politics. Political Science is more interesting than Computer Science.
 
@Mysticial What you dredge from the bottom of a river may look and smell nasty, but even so it's often useful as fertilizer. The stuff you two dredge up doesn't seem to even have that redeeming virtue...
 
5:29 PM
folks
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Hello.
 
will you help me to make the SANA idea popular?
Sometimes Auto, Not Always
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb no
 
can you please give more details why not
 
when would you not use auto?
 
5:32 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb Given the number of people who seem to take my advice seriously, I'll help in the best way I can: by saying it's a terrible idea and nobody should even consider using it. :-)
 
i need some funds to get started
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb I will donate funds to this cause
 
yeah you was thinking that you would
GeldMan haha
@Abyx you would not use auto when your mind says "no, not useful here"
 
@JerryCoffin So you don't like auto?
 
instead of the conflicting philosophies which teach "use auto anyway even if your mind says no. only listen to your mind here, there and then"
 
5:34 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb So, you're talking about AAA?
 
@caps i'm talking about Sometimes Auto, Not Always
SANA
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Okay, how is that different from Almost Always Auto?
 
AAA is contrary. it's based on doctrine
 
And what is wrong with Almost Always Auto?
 
@caps No, I mean never use his idea, whatever it is exactly (given my premise, my ignorance of his idea is irrelevant).
 
5:35 PM
@caps Overuse of auto makes stuff hard to read.
 
@Mysticial Can you give an example of code that is harder to read because of auto?
 
@caps it says to use auto almost always. except in the cases where you cannot use it because of language restrictions
@caps i think that's not fair. most cases of inappropriate "auto" uses are only understood in context
 
user1804599
Use auto whenever possible.
 
of course "auto x = getFoobar();" looks nice on its own, but it can look confusing in context when the reader wants to know what "x" is going to be
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Obviously we need to re-institute Hungarian Notation to regain that information.
 
5:38 PM
@rightfold Only if the definition of "possible" includes something about readability.
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb it's Foobar
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Is it not going to be a Foobar? Seems like a bad function name :p
 
@caps Nothing
 
@caps if it stands for getNextRequest(), and returns a tuple with request data and some "cookie" for example
you know the return is arequest, but not whether the cookie is on .second or .first
 
^^ that
 
5:44 PM
@Mysticial your message seems mystical to me
 
It's not always obvious what the auto-type is.
 
@Mysticial anyway, what do quantitative traders do?
is it an interesting job?
 
they destroy people's livelihood by speculating on resources
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb bad
bad bad bad
baaaaad
Don't return tuples when you can return meaningful things instead.
Next!
 
5:46 PM
BUT for another example, imagine the function is parse(someText)
 
(Hint: you can return local structures.)
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb C++ and a lot of it.
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb That clearly returns an AST. What about it?
 
you know it returns the result of the parse. but if it fails, will it throw or will it return a variant<Result, error_code> or what is it?
 
The compiler error messages will tell me.
(Often inside my editor.)
 
5:47 PM
@Griwes Okay, but what type is the AST? Is it an std::map? Is it a user-defined object node?
 
@NirajPatel That said I would not trust a programming answer on Yahoo answers :P — Borgleader 8 secs ago
 
Why do people care about type names?
 
@Griwes i'm imaging i'm browsing someone's GIT repository
 
Over-use of auto makes code as unreadable as something like this which I see a lot of: asdf.frob()->next().first[key]->update()
 
i don't have an editor
 
5:48 PM
You can write an entire ocaml program without spelling a single type name, how?!
 
@Mysticial No idea. I'll press . after its name and it'll tell me all I need to know!
@Mysticial No.
That's not overuse of auto.
That's just a bad API.
 
@Griwes Doesn't work when you're in a template with dependent types.
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Then I can see the code after that and see how it's used.
 
that's not going to be useful
sure you may be able to find out
but it takes you perhaps 10 times longer
 
5:49 PM
@Mysticial ...if I'm writing a template, I try to know all the APIs I'm using.
@JohannesSchaub-litb It'll take me the same time.
Okay, newsflash:
I almost never care about the actual type of a variable.
 
@Griwes The "trying to know all the APIs" part isn't feasible in real production code.
 
I couldn't give less shit than about the actual type of a variable.
 
Since it's probably written by someone who no longer works there.
 
Ven
@JohannesSchaub-litb realistically, auto foo = getFooBar(); tells you about as much as FooBar foo = getFooBar();. You still know nothing about the real things
 
5:50 PM
@rightfold I've been learning Spring lately.
 
All I care about (and I recommend you do the same) is the INTERFACE of that variable.
 
@Ven in the second snippet, i know foo is a foobar
 
Ven
@GundolfGundelfinger WAT indeed
 
@Mysticial All the APIs I'm using.
 
5:50 PM
@Ven buzzwords
 
not an optional<FooBar> or a pointer or whatever
 
Also whether I'm using auto or not doesn't matter at all.
 
Ven
@GundolfGundelfinger Liquid Mysticial
 
The same problem you've highlighted exists, so auto has no impact.
 
I got a bit excited when I saw this

SOBotics

This room is dedicated to moderating content on Stack Overflow...
thought it's a room about robotics chat
but nope it's a bunch of bots
 
5:51 PM
@Ven Well duh, you should rename foo to baz to make intent clear!
 
@Ven Disagree: std::map<std::string, int> foo = getFooBar() is more readable than auto foo = getFooBar().
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Maybe it's been a lazy Foobar that you wanted to do expression templates on, and instead you've forced eager evaluation?
@Mysticial That function is not named correctly.
 
user1804599
@fredoverflow learn profunctors instead
 
My main use of auto is in grabbing iterators: auto iter = map.begin()
 
5:52 PM
@Mysticial How about auto wordFrequencies = getWordFrequencies(); instead?
 
Ven
@Mysticial sorry, I forgot you use your own very special Mysticial Naming Conventions :P.
 
It should be named getMapOfSomething, not getFoobar, since Foobar is clearly not the same as std::map<std::string, int>.
Also ugh, std::map.
Kill that shit.
 
Ven
@Griwes irrelevant here tbh.
 
Sure.
 
@Griwes So it should be named, "getBarWhichIsAnStdMapWithKeyValueOfStdStringAndValueOfPrimitiveTypeInt()"?
 
5:53 PM
But still I wanted to point it out. :P
 
@Griwes i would know, since I've written the type. in your model, you say "i use auto to prepare for different types". I agree, if there is chance that the type might change, i will use auto and pay the cost in reduced clarity in exchange to future adaptability to changes of the return type
 
@Mysticial That's retarded.
2
 
I laughed
Newsflash: Mysticial and litb considered bad at programming
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb There's no reduced clarity in my code, because my APIs are not horridly bad (like returning std::pair<iterator, bool>. WTF is that shit).
 
Ven
@GundolfGundelfinger Mysticial considered bad at naming :p
 
5:54 PM
Using auto FORCES you to write APIs that are self descriptive.
It's a good thing.
 
i remain of the opinion that for agents that browse code, readability will be reduced
 
Ven
@Griwes that's a self-predicting prophecy!
 
@Griwes not necessarily a good thing
 
@JohannesSchaub-litb Please conduct an empirical study about that.
@JohannesSchaub-litb kek
 
having no hands forces you to make more creative uses of your feet and tongue aswell, for instance
not good
 
5:55 PM
Are you telling me that enforcing self descriptive APIs is bad?
 
Ven
@JohannesSchaub-litb in many cases, it may, yeah.
 
It sounds like you're telling me that enforcing self descriptive APIs is bad.
 
user1804599
Haha self descriptive APIs in languages without referential transparency, totality and parametricity 😁
 
The thing I hate the most is unnecessary use of auto return types. I see an API like this: auto getChildren(){ ... } ... Well okay. How the fuck am I supposed to use the object? Does it return an std::vector? An std::set()? I'd like to not have to look at the code.
2
 
rightfold go to bed
 
5:56 PM
I might have to never quote your bug reports in my slides again, so your name falls into the abyss, if that's what you're saying.
 
@Mysticial It returns children, clearly
 
Thank you Cicada for herding the cat.
 
to an extent that is good. but the net cost that is gained by it must outweight the cost of introducing auto
 
Why do you care it's a vector or a set
 
@Mysticial It clearly returns some kind of a container.
Do I need to care more?
 
5:57 PM
to me, it does not. using auto all over the place still has placed you into negative net cost even if you are writing clearer APIs
 
@GundolfGundelfinger Because they have different APIs?
 
If I spot some push_back later on, I suddenly know it's a sequence container!
@Mysticial They both have the API of a container.
 
Ven
@GundolfGundelfinger no it returns childrens obviously :p
 
If the difference between assoc or sequence or whatever containers are important, I'll quickly spot it due to usage down the code.
If it isn't, then I couldn't care less what container that is.
 
@Griwes haha have you quoted my bug reports in your slides?
 
5:58 PM
@JohannesSchaub-litb yes. :D
Two of them, in my variadics talk. First one is the Clang one with the empty pack SFINAE not working, second about GCC being retarded with lambda packs.
 
@Griwes What if you're writing a function that takes the value returned from that function? Are you going to template it just because you don't care what the type is?
And what if you want to store it into a field? You can't auto those.
 
Apparently it made STL very happy (since he saw "Compiler bugs" twice and not once was it MSVC :D).
 
At some point along the auto chain, you're gonna want to know what the hell you're looking at.
 
5:59 PM
Err.
 
@Mysticial Auto return types are considered a code smell in Scala these days.
 
user1804599
@Ven I need a fun PS project
 
Both cases don't matter.
 
Ven
@Mysticial he writes C++14 so he has void f(auto){} :p
 
i knew someday my 100PRs would pay off and make me famous :p
 

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