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6:00 PM
Yeah I'm thinking about trying LXDE out. I dont want to use a WM only, I want a full on DE
 
Ugh, seems I have some off-by-one errors somewhere :/
Stay tuned for further live reports from the debugging field.
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ No, on Niebler's blog.
 
user406009
@Prismatic LXDE is pretty much a complete DE.
 
user406009
@Morwenn What user name was he using?
 
user1804599
ugh
 
user1804599
6:01 PM
moron honked again
 
I cant believe how buggy KDE is. I keep thinking something is wrong with my install
Its just pervasively bad
 
pff
 
@Lalaland Well, Puppy.
 
I think I will make a giant post on the KDE forums with all the bugs I have encountered
and then never use it again
 
user406009
Found some of the discussion. It's glorious:
 
user406009
6:06 PM
Puppy:
< I hate people who terminate the process on precondition violation. Process termination should only be employed when the state of the process is, absolutely and completely, corrupted.
 
I see a lot of C++ code like this: private: enum { max_recent_msgs = 100 }; What is the point of such enum?
 
user1804599
Workaround for lack of constexpr in C++03.
 
Not having to write static constexpr int max_recent_msgs = 100;, while repeating the static constexpr int part all over the place.
 
holy shit I am so done with this
it automatically resets my volume to 100% randomly
what the fuck
my ears man
 
OK, I still don't see how does this workaround works but I'll know where to go from there
 
6:09 PM
I am returned
 
@Prismatic lel
 
@REACHUS obscuring your code
 
@Xeo Charlotte has become more interesting!
 
user1804599
Ik ken een lekker wijf en ze heet Charlotte.
 
is ze interessant?
 
6:13 PM
Of course she is.
 
user1804599
nee
 
> psytrance is a must while programming
I absolutely agree.
 
@StackedCrooked :D
 
user1804599
psyduck
 
6:16 PM
psytrans
 
user1804599
trance typing
 
we used to have a psyduck
 
user406009
Darn I really need to see about my electricity.
 
user406009
The stupid lights flicker whenever I turn the dryer on.
 
user406009
And I just had to restart my router after a pretty intense flicker.
 
6:22 PM
@Lalaland Darn I really need my electricity to see about :P
 
user406009
I'm really worried about my electronics being damaged.
 
@Griwes Why, If I may ask?
I've been waiting for its resolution for a while now.
 
6:33 PM
@ElimGarak Wheato looks weird with that beard :p
 
@jaggedSpire :(
 
@ʞɔᴉN so sorry to disappoint but that really didn't have much in common with his code at that point.
Especially after I switched to a vector of strings
 
true, but now he will fail his homework assignment!
 
haha.
I would have used an actual stack, but felt that would have been cheating
 
instructors don't really like to see anything else than what they've already lectured on anyways
 
6:45 PM
Mmm
 
i had to use C arrays for everything in my last class
 
ick
 
that's when I decided I should be a jabbascript dev
 
user406009
Time to start a new project from scratch. I wonder which programming language I should pick.
 
user406009
@ʞɔᴉN I can sorta understand that with C++.
 
user406009
6:48 PM
There are certain parts of C++ I certainly wouldn't want to grade.
 
user406009
Also, it sorta ruins the point when you use std::list in an "implement a linked list" assignment.
 
@melak47 Indeed he does, and he got fat. :D
 
@Lalaland yeah, true
 
@Lalaland Exactly why I used a vector :3
 
but I've found that 90% of programming is using other people's code so..
well for me, more like 95%
 
6:50 PM
Good afternoon.
 
user406009
Yes, but there is a good argument that reinventing the wheel can sometimes be a good learning experience.
 
hello
 
user406009
@ʞɔᴉN You should write an assignment in C++ Template Lang just for the heck of it.
 
@Lalaland yeah but let's face it, my custom implementation wouldn't be able to compete in terms of performance/stability
 
user406009
We are talking about learning, not actual implementation.
 
6:51 PM
@ʞɔᴉN It could.
Just get good™
 
well, I actually almost wrote my own operational transform library once
spent a lot of time researching, learned a lot
 
Use existing code if:
a) You can't do better.
b) You don't give a fuck about doing better.
c) You're on a deadline which prevents you from doing better.
 
in the end I just used a preexisting library but the time I spent learning the concepts definitely helped a lot i think
 
@ElimGarak What do you think happened? Did the whole getting tricked into killing 10s of thousands of people (again) thing blow Four's lid?
 
user1804599
 
user1804599
6:54 PM
:3
 
@ElimGarak pretty much all 3 for me, that's my excuse
@elyse react?
jabbascript?
 
user1804599
YES
 
frontend?
wat?
 
@melak47 He's actually a Galactic Authority agent who failed to prevent the destruction of the space station which in turn gave him the cred to join the outlaw ship. They found out and tried to kill him before Five (the little girl) wiped their memory before going to stasis (because they said to do it after stasis and before the colony).
 
@rlemon our plan is working
 
6:56 PM
I actually had that feeling for a long time, because he was way too nice a person to be one of them. Both him and the dude that infiltrated the ship to kill Three because of killing his waifu. But I was still pretty surprised. Also, he's Six, I think.
 
oh, he is.
stupid numbers :p
 
Yeah, I actually had to crawl the wikia to see which numbers referenced who afterwards. I knew them by "the black guy", "the wuss", "the hot babe", "the crazy japanese", "the generic girl hacker" and "the android". And the "hot head".
 
Well everyone, I'm going to go get snarled in traffic so I can sample foodstuffs from various countries around the world.
Have a nice time
 
You too, have fun!
 
@jaggedSpire so long, and thanks for all the fish
 
7:01 PM
@jaggedSpire Or you can stay home and relax.
@ʞɔᴉN Hey I want fish too, hand it over!
 
nooble go outside
 
Also, the GA filling the ship up with armed forces was bit of an overkill.
Depending on the season 2's greenlight, the story ends with the good guys winning or the bad guys becoming good guys winning.
 
you lost me
 
@Nooble don't go outside, kill me in ~1.5-2 hours instead
 
Blunt Talk with Patrick Stewart (Captain Picard) is fantastic.
 
7:14 PM
I'll take a look
 
7:25 PM
@nabijaczleweli I thirst for bloood
@nabijaczleweli Ever since I adopted this_case for classes, I don't know what to name my parameters anymore.
 
Killing flies on the screen without them leaving gut juices is an art.
 
For example: renderer::render(const model& model_lol).
 
use amodel
Or themodel
 
Back to Windooze.
 
@nabijaczleweli That sounds horrible.
 
7:30 PM
I tend to use UncleBobsNamingConvention for ctor args
Or a more descriptive name
 
Haha and because I do info_log instead of get_info_log I needed to rename info_log into info_log_.
 
model_to_render in class decl, torender/themodel in func def
 
Yeah I was thinking of that.
 
@Nooble yeah, name_'s a common convention for members if you can't think of a better name
 
@ElimGarak I just repeatedly open a context menu under them until they leave
 
7:34 PM
@melak47 That works?
 
not often :p
 
I tend to overload operator() instead of using a method name when I have a case of frobniker::frobnikate.
 
I don't have flies :(
@Morwenn Oh I suppose I could do that too.
Might add a bit of ambiguity though.
 
@Nooble why not just model?
 
@Nooble You could. You could also provide both render and operator().
 
7:37 PM
@melak47 That would work? Always thought same named things would screw everything up.
 
user1804599
Ugh, don't provide both.
 
user1804599
Aliases are terrible.
 
user1804599
They have no benefit yet require people to learn about them and remember them.
 
user1804599
And they have to be maintained.
 
Oh, when I provide both, operator() only forwards its parameters to the other one, so there's little to no maintainance.
 
7:40 PM
@Nooble most cases it wouldn't
 
-Wshadow will yell at you.
 
@Nooble might be problematic when you have a member model model; somewhere, and then try to use model in function signatures
 
model model(const model & model = model);
 
Ell
Evening
In my language you can refer to a variable by its type only
If its not ambiguous
This language doesn't exist yet ofc :P
 
Everybody here seems to have a WIP language somewhere.
 
user1804599
7:56 PM
I want the method in the Show type class to return an AST instead of a string.
 
@Morwenn most don't
 
@AlexM. I'm almost surprised to hear that.
 
user1804599
@Morwenn Mine is the best.
 
@elyse On the other hand, I'm not surprised to hear that.
I mean, coming from you.
 
user1804599
Currently there's this feature where sub f(): Int { 1; } sub g(): () { } sub h(): () { f(); g(); } results in a type error.
 
Ell
8:01 PM
Lol
 
user1804599
You have to explicitly ignore the return value of f(), since it's not of type ().
 
Why, though, since it's not the last expression?
 
Doesn't it only take into account the return value of the last expression?
 
@Columbo std::array<foo, _some_internal_constexpr_function(some_constant)> bar;
 
user1804599
@nabijaczleweli Yes. :3
 
user1804599
8:03 PM
@Morwenn All expressions except the last one must be of type ().
 
I didn't try to create a testcase yet.
So I can't really tell what's the exact source for it.
 
@elyse Is this the result from some hybrid theorical type system only you know about? :p
 
user1804599
This prevents bugs where you expect side-effects but the function actually is free of them, and similar.
 
user1804599
See also command–query separation.
 
user1804599
Eiffel has a similar feature.
 
8:09 PM
Eiffel does have some strange features.
 
Ell
My language will encode side effects in the type system also
It will be dependently typed
 
My language will encode the type system in side effects.
 
My language will never fucking do anything because I havent worked on it since my laptop died over a month ago
:(
 
Wall Street Journal: wsj.com/articles/…
in short: one of the biggest gas fields has been discovered by Eni (I forgot what the acronym means, google for it)
 
This may be my 20,000th message.
Nope it wasn't.
 
8:20 PM
so much nope
 
Maybe this?
 
> 20634
 
I sure do wish that message count had a finer resolution.
@unordered_meow Well, in the lounge I mean.
 
user1804599
@Morwenn Which ones?
 
then it's
> 19863
just hover over it
 
8:22 PM
@unordered_meow Ooh I'm on mobile.
 
@elyse Covariance for derived methods parameters.
 
user1804599
Yeah, that's horrible.
 
Thanks, I was about to do that 200+ times.
 
user1804599
Especially catcalls being UB instead of an exception.
 
8:24 PM
Yep.
 
user1804599
The reasoning predates the addition of generics.
 
user1804599
Lack of generics seems to cause all sorts of weirdness in languages. Covariant parameters in Eiffel. Covariant mutable arrays in Java and C#. Arrays and associative arrays as language features in D. etc
 
Ell
Is covariance a bad thing? I don't understand it really
 
user1804599
No. It's fine.
 
user1804599
But not if done in places that should have been contravariant or invariant.
 
Ell
8:27 PM
I always interpret it as allowing something to return a child instead of parent in a derived method
But that makes no sense
I see
 
That's covariant return types. Which are fine.
 
Stop speaking with big words D:
 
Ell
Right, I can't see how you'd disallow it
 
@Borgleader D:
 
user1804599
In Eiffel you can do this (with C# syntax):
 
user1804599
8:29 PM
class A { }
class B : A { }

class X { public virtual void f(A x) { } }
class Y : X { public override void f(B x) { } }
 
user1804599
Which is dangerous for obvious reasons.
 
Ell
huh that's weird and broken
And that is called parameter covariance?
 
Yes, yes it is broken
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
user1804599
The reasoning was to allow the following:
 
user1804599
8:32 PM
class A { }
class B : A { }
class C : A { }

class APrinter { public abstract void print(A x); }
class BPrinter : APrinter { public override void print(B x) { } }
class CPrinter : APrinter { public override void print(C x) { } }
 
user1804599
While this can be useful, a far superior solution is to introduce generics, and turn APrinter into Printer<T> where T : A.
 
That said, while contravariant parameters make sense, I've never seen any language allowing them.
 
user1804599
Scala. :3
 
Aug 11 at 19:45, by Mr. kbok
In Scala you can bore everyone to death with unending obscure language features
SCNR
 
Ell
What is contravariant?
 
user1804599
8:37 PM
Scala is nice in that if a feature makes sense, it probably offers it.
 
@Ell opposite of covariant
 
user1804599
@Ell e.g.
 
user1804599
class A { }
class B : A { }

class X { public virtual void f(B x) { } }
class Y : X { public override void f(A x) { } }
 
@BartekBanachewicz sup
 
8:37 PM
@BartekBanachewicz sup
 
@BartekBanachewicz sup
 
Sorry I had to copy your poll.
 
user1804599
Rule of thumb: writable is typically contravariant, readable is typically covariant, readable & writable is typically invariant.
 
user1804599
Parameters are passed-in, like writing.
 
don't have to be
so, 5th
 
user1804599
8:38 PM
Whereas return values are read.
 
Ell
Oh that makes sense
 
I should be able to make it
 
user1804599
Fun-fact: the function type (A) => B is contravariant in A and covariant in B.
 
Ell
scala is so great
 
said no one ever
 
user1804599
8:39 PM
Fun-fact: the function type ((A) => B) => C is covariant in A, contravariant in B and covariant in C.
 
user1804599
:3
 
Ell
@bart hi bartek
 
> I can’t, because some idiot took that choice away from me, even though I know that unless the compiler corrupted memory or something, the process is absolutely recoverable.
Classy
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes.
I'm working on a rendering engine.
 
runs away
 
8:40 PM
@elyse Sounds nice.
 
user1804599
This is why Scala uses + for covariance (+ + = +) and - for contravariance (- - = +).
 
is hotline miami easier with a controller?
 
I should try hotline miami.
 
@elyse You might have got me hooked.
 
user1804599
Very related (esp to the write/read rule of thumb): I designed an API today where you had to return a function taking an output stream. The caller could then provide an output stream to you, instead of having to read from an input stream provided by you. More efficient.
 
8:43 PM
@BartekBanachewicz sup
 
I am starting the new job on Tuesday
 
@BartekBanachewicz Congrats.
 
not having to work was pretty fun
 
user1804599
So instead of returning InputStream, you returned (OutputStream => Unit).
 
OTOH it requires discipline to not turn into a potato
 
user1804599
8:44 PM
This is similar to the (- - = +) example.
 
user1804599
In a sense.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I know what you mean.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Potatoes are great.
 
not when you're one
 
I was finally able to cook potatoes
 
8:45 PM
I was exercising quite a lot in the meantime though
 
It was awesome
 
not just in Starcraft I mean
 
With little oil too
 
@Griwes I love those
I mean, I can already hear hordes of lazy-eval haters wanking off to this
doesn't change the fact it's a trivial change
 
8:46 PM
@Nooble I get 20 on average on Low (just kept textures at Medium) :v
Hence GPU search
 
@CatPlusPlus Hmph.
Yeah I really like the game, too. I defecated on a dinosaur once.
 
It's still like a year till release
 
Which game?
 
I heard you can ask for a refund on Steam, is that true?
 
8:48 PM
Yes
 
yep
<4h playing time IIRC
 
Starbound keeps giving me awesome weapons
 
I might buy Hotline Miami, but I want to be sure I can get a refund if it doesn't run fine or whatever.
 
It runs fine
 
@BartekBanachewicz I've heard it's 2 :/
 
8:48 PM
Unless you run it on a 1999 potato
 
anyway back to SC2
 
@ʎǝɹɟɟɟǝſ last time this was brought up we had a 5h discussion about VMs, modules and sandboxes where both sides of conversation couldn't understand each other at all.
 
@CatPlusPlus Which is basically my case probably
 
gonna hit the campaign achievs before LotV
bye potatoes.
 
Processor:1.4GHz processor or faster
Memory:1 GB RAM
Graphics:DirectX 8-compatible graphics card with at least 32MB of video memory
 
8:49 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Bye
@CatPlusPlus I can barely keep up :v
 
user1804599
I have 4 GHz and 16 GB RAM. :3
 
If your PC is less powerful than that then it's worthless garbage
 
Should I buy both or just the second one?
 
user1804599
I wonder how much video memory I have. Where can you see that?
 
In your card specs
 
8:50 PM
@elyse What OS?
 
user1804599
Windows 8.
 
@elyse I do believe you have 2GB of GDDR5.
R9-380, no?
 
Any system info tool is likely to tell you
 
Cpu-z? ;p
 
@elyse run dxdiag.exe
 
8:52 PM
Windows sysinfo too
 
user1804599
@Nooble 8 GB
 
@Nooble are you ready, mr. Vamp?
 
@elyse Of VRAM? No way...
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
@elyse Look at dedicated, not total available
 
user1804599
8:53 PM
> Approx. Total Memory: 7910 MB
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus oh ok let's see.
 
user1804599
not shown by dxdiag
 
@elyse Go to the renderer tab.
 
@Borgleader i.imgur.com/KX7CLWj.png I know, e-mail is soooo 1995
 
Or, "render" I mean.
 
user1804599
8:54 PM
no such tab
 
Run System Information, go to Components > Display
 
@elyse You could just run Catalyst.
@nabijaczleweli Not home.
 
user1804599
Can't find System Information. :v
 
@elyse Run Catalyst.
 
user1804599
8:57 PM
@Nooble Catalyst Control Center?
 
@elyse Yes.
 
@elyse Just start typing into Start search :v
 
user1804599
@Nooble And then?
 
@CatPlusPlus Whoa, that's huge.
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus I did. No results.
 
8:57 PM
It's in Administrative Tools
 
user1804599
thanks
 
@elyse It should be there somewhere.
 
@Nooble Screen shakes like hell near it
Anyway I bought it, whatever, seems solid enough already
 
@CatPlusPlus Let's see if I can run it, they did update it...
 
user1804599
Adapter RAM lists 1 GB.
 
8:59 PM
Hopefully it'll be fine at 1600x900.
@elyse There's is absolutely no way you have 1GB of VRAM either :P
 
user1804599
Why not?
 
It's either gonna be 2GB of 4GB.
Because I know you have an R9-380.
Which comes in two flavors.
 

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