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Ell
1:00 PM
18k? jesus
 
user1804599
> In October 2010, the TButts (Trustworthy Butts) project was started, funded by the European Commission's 7th Framework Programme. The project's goal is to research and inspect the legal foundation and architectural design to build a resilient and trustworthy butt-of-butt infrastructure on top of that. The project also develops a prototype to demonstrate its results.
 
 
> to build a resilient and trustworthy butt-of-butt infrastructure
 
@rightfold this sounds like a hooker infrastructure
 
@khajvah the only thing I don't like in python is python
 
1:06 PM
@BartekBanachewicz :D
@khajvah yes
 
@Griwes Is there a language that you like?
 
@khajvah Vapor
you might've not heard about it
since it doesn't exist yet
 
are you writing it?
 
yes
 
makes sense then
 
1:08 PM
or no, if you are asking about recent activity
 
there have been some disputes about Vapor semantics
 
I like Rust's borrowing mechanism
 
there have been some disputes about the differences between my understanding of the word "semantics" and Bartek's understanding of said word
^ is probably a better description of that discussion. :D
 
In programming language theory, semantics is the field concerned with the rigorous mathematical study of the meaning of programming languages. It does so by evaluating the meaning of syntactically legal strings defined by a specific programming language, showing the computation involved. In such a case that the evaluation would be of syntactically illegal strings, the result would be non-computation. Semantics describes the processes a computer follows when executing a program in that specific language. This can be shown by describing the relationship between the input and output of a program,...
but yeah well
 
> The semantics definition permits a formal analysis of its properties, such as whether the definition
is strongly typed, block structured, uses single-threaded data structures, is parallelizable,
etc.
 
1:13 PM
who won the argument this time?
 
> The semantics definition can be used as input to a compiler back-end generating tool [26, 31];
it becomes, in effect, the implementation.
I still claim I am right. :P
@khajvah No-one; there were some temporary ignores thrown around.
 
fuck languages defined via implementation
 
cough Rust cough
 
@BartekBanachewicz I quoted from a paper you linked to!
It itself mentions implementation.
 
@BartekBanachewicz they gotta start by implementation, no?
 
1:16 PM
this paper doesn't say whether it's good or bad
 
Also you are still missing the point. I am defining the implementation by semantics, not the other way around.
 
@khajvah no, you start with a specification
@Griwes you're making the implementation have impact on semantics and that's what I dislike
 
@BartekBanachewicz And five years later you arrive at a point where you suddenly realize that a crucial feature is not implementable, because you did specs totally without implementation.
 
22 hours ago, by Alex M.
this one looks sweet as fuck :O
 
@BartekBanachewicz I am not.
 
1:17 PM
I decided to move in that one
gonna do contracts and shit tomorrow
 
@AlexM. Are you getting drunk as shit today?
 
@Griwes like export? :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz Exactly my point.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Like any big project, requirements change over time. I don't think you can't define the entire specification from the beginning.
 
1:18 PM
the street seemed very peaceful too
 
@BartekBanachewicz In fact I am not leaving that bit of behavior to be specified by the implementation.
(And instead by the specs.)
Do you seriously disagree with an opinion that that is good?
 
so you're enforcing/influencing implementation in the specs
@Griwes of course
 
@AlexM. Is that a school on the right?
 
@BartekBanachewicz You can say that. But then you could say the same thing about saying "1 + 1 = 2" in the specs.
 
@Jefffrey no it's the place where the apartment is in
 
1:19 PM
That enforces the implementation!
 
@AlexM. which one is that
 
The amount of implementation defined semantics in C++ is too damn high.
 
@BartekBanachewicz see above
22 hours ago, by Alex M.
this one looks sweet as fuck :O
 
^ that one
 
1:20 PM
I dunno, looks... okay-ish?
 
I managed to negotiate it down to 330 eur/mo
 
spec first or impl first both have their problems
 
@AlexM. Very nice
 
my GF is going to pay around 250€ in Trier
 
1:20 PM
@BartekBanachewicz it looks way better than the average
 
Xeo
@AlexM. cold or with heating etc?
 
of course it's not the luxury stuff you get for 500 eur/mo but...
 
@AlexM. 0/10 no bus stop immediately by the building.
 
lol bus stop
 
it's a lot better than what I have
 
1:21 PM
bus stops are for pleb
 
like me
 
@Griwes I walk to places and if I hurry I call a cab
 
@AlexM. I want it.
 
You mean limousine stops, right?
 
@AlexM. take photos when you're in
 
1:21 PM
haven't used a bus in 3 years
 
Xeo
@AlexM. Psst: Bike.
 
ITT bartekmasterrace
2
 
I haven't used public transport pretty much at all since I got my machines
 
@Xeo shut up you tree hugging ecologist thing
3
 
buses kinda smell
and are really dirty
especially in summer ugh
 
1:22 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Good polluting job
 
:24333082 there is one 2 mins away on foot shut up already
 
@Jefffrey didn't I mention how bad the pollution argument is already
 
lol
I guess you didn't.
 
I couldn't see it with all the smog your machines are causing
 
@AlexM. That was a message that arrived after timing out.
 
1:23 PM
@BartekBanachewicz it looks very much like in that pic, I was not surprised
 
@AlexM. looks good
 
@AlexM. looks nice
 
I like the small enclosed space outside where I can put my clothes to dry after washing, right now I dry them outside my door which is very meh because everyone passed around them
 
1:24 PM
2 mins ago, by buttiful buttefly
@Xeo shut up you tree hugging ecologist thing
I guess?
 
I can also add a table and some chairs there or w/e
 
@AlexM. That pick is awfully accurate
 
it's also 2 rooms which is great :D
 
you can stash porn in the 2nd one
 
@AlexM. Ugh, why is that not a garden?
 
1:24 PM
when mom visits I'll store her in the bedroom while I can safely use my keyboard in the other
 
> keyboard
 
@Jefffrey the owner didn't finish that part yet and said that if I want we can combine $$$ to finish it (deducted from rent)
he rents things for fun or sth, has many apartments
 
> store
 
@khajvah you have to type your preferences in the search box, man.
 
@AlexM. Do eet
 
1:25 PM
@AlexM. the point is it's in concrete
 
Remove concrete, put dirt
 
@Nooble At least not in a drawer...
 
@BartekBanachewicz You realize I was being sarcastic right? Using my comment as defense isn't exactly the brightest idea
 
@Griwes I have bookmarked them all :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think jeff meant like plants in pots
you can use plants in pots to make a garden
 
1:26 PM
@buttifulbuttefly no
 
there you go
 
your comment was great
 
they all are
 
@AlexM. No, I meant garden garden. Like grass and all
 
lol that's it?
 
1:26 PM
internal combustion engines master race
I think I understand what trolling is about now
 
@Jefffrey nah too extreme
 
lolwat
 
The pollution argument is bad because <generic condescending insult>?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's bad because a) vehicle pollution is a tiny percent overall b) producing electricity generates pollution as well
 
@nabijaczleweli Heh.
 
1:27 PM
Not all the time
 
like not when
 
pollution argument is bad because electric cars are expensive to buy and keep
 
Solar panels
 
@BartekBanachewicz 10/10 very good
 
Any green energy, from water to wind to whatever
 
1:28 PM
@Jefffrey they are made for free in the forest from bamboo leaves and are 100% biodegradable
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz -1 destroys panda habitat.
 
What's your point?
 
stop being so obsessed with engines generating pollution is my point
 
You can't have zero pollution. Might as well have all of it, then.
 
1:29 PM
create better fuels
perhaps synthetic diesel thing
 
@BartekBanachewicz the pollution generated by power plants is much easier to control and avoid leaking compared to cars
 
user1804599
pollution enrages aliens
 
user1804599
better not pollute
 
Fuck aliens
 
@thecoshman yeah that's why companies prefer to pay fines instead of installing filters
 
1:29 PM
My laser turrets and belts are waiting for them
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You can't just walk everywhere
 
Atomic power is p much the cleanest energy source we can get
 
car/bike is a must in this century
 
apart from perhaps geotermal thingies
 
@BartekBanachewicz Uuuuuh
 
1:30 PM
Self-driving bike for the win
 
Interesting definition of cleanest
 
@BartekBanachewicz or wind, or solar, or wave vOv
 
but really, stop being so obsessed with earth
there are other planets
 
lol
 
@thecoshman no, those suck
 
1:30 PM
no mate, there aren't yet
 
user1804599
you can't live on other planets until you make them earthlike (or unless they already are)
 
@BartekBanachewicz ho sure, we're only stuck here
@rightfold with pollution!
 
@khajvah of course I can't walk everywhere. Some places have water and I'm not Jesus.
 
Not sure if very good troll or highly retarded
 
@rightfold you don't have to live there to extract their resources
 
user1804599
1:31 PM
Oh you were talking about resource extraction.
 
@rightfold objdump can do that
 
@rightfold or waste dumping
 
lol space mining
 
I would even argue that software development produces more pollution than transportation currently.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You know what I meant. You need a vehicle and electric ones are not yet usable
 
1:31 PM
like I love the "there's too much waste on earth"
 
user1804599
Well, good luck transporting resources from planets that are many parsecs away back to Earth in profitable quantities.
 
@khajvah Tesla Roadster.
 
ITT @BartekBanachewicz has no idea what he's talking about.
 
user1804599
Or even from Mars.
 
@khajvah oh but they are.
 
1:32 PM
the only thing we have enough in the universe is space
 
@rightfold Wormholes obviously
 
user1804599
It doesn't work. It's too expensive with today's technology.
 
this conversation is depressing. bye.
 
@rubenvb which costs what? like $100k
 
They're just not individual.
 
1:32 PM
@buttifulbuttefly lol victory
 
@khajvah it is usable though.
 
@khajvah stop moving goal posts
 
Ven
@rightfold (0;eval) doesn't either ;)
 
@rightfold so are electric self-driving cars but people won't shut up about them
 
user1804599
@Ven can't do that in strict mode AFAIK.
 
1:33 PM
Actually there are cheap individual electric vehicles
They're just not cars
 
lol
0
A: Dereferencing iterators performance

UmNyobeThis is just a manifestation of data locality. It takes less time to look at something at the next page of a book than something at the 800th next page. Try for yourself at home.

 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz those are cheap with tomorrow's technology.
 
I know of a vehicle that burns fat
 
lol tomorrow's technology
 
user1804599
space mining may be cheap in 500 years
 
1:33 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes you are better of walking with those
 
I'll ask you tomorrow then
 
And it's cheap
 
user1804599
maybe 10000
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes don't forget self-driving
 
No no, it's yesterday's technology
It's called.... bike
 
1:34 PM
human muscles aren't nearly as efficient as ICEs
which are... pretty damn inefficient
 
I love the "It's hard to do it, so we'll just stick with the bad shit we have now" attitude. Way to get out of the cave.
 
user1804599
self-driving cars are probably a thing before humans set foot on Mars
 
@thecoshman I haven't said that we should stick with the bad shit we have now.
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz conclusion: MSVC > human.
 
@thecoshman If I was in car-manufacturing industry, I would make research on electric cars but since I am not, I will just wait
 
1:35 PM
But just because I don't agree with your future plans, you think I'm stupid/not-green/whatever
 
@BartekBanachewicz true enough, you've just poo pooed moving on
 
because there's only one way to see the future of the planet and you have monopoly on it
fuck different opinions right
 
@BartekBanachewicz oh no, it's the other things you say that make me think that.
 
yeah right.
if you've read 30% of what I say perhaps I'd agree
but I doubt it reaches those levels
 
user1804599
put fusion reactors in cars
 
1:37 PM
put small cars in cars
in hamster wheels
 
@rubenvb yeah seems I removed pre-VS2013 or so and the batch files are still there. Never mind though. Couldn't freaking login into visual Studio anyways.
 
@BartekBanachewicz have you ever stopped to think that maybe it's just that you do not come across how you think you do?
 
yeah, but after hearing that from someone who actually reads the whole thing.
 
@khajvah Oh, I didn't realise I was supposed to discuss this under the assumption that personal ICE cars are the only viable means of transportation. In that case, I'm sorry. I'll have to agree with you. In a world where personal ICE cars are the only viable means of transportation, electric vehicles are not a viable means of transportation.
I'm grateful for that wisdom about khajvahnontopia.
 
"my made up technology is the best" again
 
1:38 PM
Now I have a server to fix.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what are the other means of transportation?
 
@sehe lol. VS is still kind of a joke in my eyes. But I'll use it if I ever have to.
 
"in a world where personal self-driving cars are the best solution, personal self-driving cars are the best solution"
 
@khajvah Oh, now you ask? Too late.
 
ok
 
1:39 PM
wow you've got some really interesting observations there
 
@khajvah I thought you knew all about them, given this observation.
 
oh I know tesla which costs $100k
and that doesn't work
I know hybrid cars which again cost a fortune
 
user1804599
@BartekBanachewicz Use this machine as engine: youtube.com/watch?v=rVyhGNMMgvo
 
@khajvah no no you don't understand you have to live in a world where electric cars are cheap and energy is green and then it makes sense
 
@khajvah You made that observation as a reply to "Actually there are cheap individual electric vehicles".
 
1:40 PM
@rubenvb Yeah. I hated every minute of that there. I mean. dumbin+lib to create stupid .lib files?! All that humonguous handling of library/include paths. I guess I'm used to TextModeEverythingâ„¢
 
You clearly weren't reading back then, otherwise you wouldn't consider I was talking about those that "cost a fortune".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes maybe I missed something but can you give me an example of a cheap individual electric vehicle, which actually can be used to get some places
 
12 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
You can't have zero pollution. Might as well have all of it, then.
 
HINT: segways can't
 
Segways aren't cheap.
 
1:42 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Optimize hotpaths. Reduce pollution where it actually is the most prevalent
Saying "industrial power generation is much greener than generating power in the ICEs" is mostly blatantly false
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, then you have something cheaper in mind. that's better
 
user1804599
increase pollution to annoy gutmensch
 
@BartekBanachewicz No one said that.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes except @thecoshman I guess
 
@khajvah Oh wow you might actually be reading now.
@BartekBanachewicz (Oh missed that)
 
1:43 PM
Producing a car produces as much CO2 as using it vOv
 
@khajvah In case it's not clear enough, I'm only interested in trolling you now.
 
14 mins ago, by thecoshman
@BartekBanachewicz the pollution generated by power plants is much easier to control and avoid leaking compared to cars
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh well fine
 
@BartekBanachewicz The former is much harder to quantify.
 
oh of course
 
1:44 PM
Also CO2 is nowhere near enough here.
 
and that's why it's more "zing" to focus on the car part
 
user1804599
I feel terrible.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I guess his point is that those can be regulated easier: there are less of them.
 
undoubtfully, but they're walled behind thick corporate walls of money
 
> undoubtfully
Robot is unhomelessly
 
1:46 PM
guess what's easier: passing a bill that requires every car to have a DPF, or passing a bill that requires every factory to have one
 
@BartekBanachewicz Which is also why it's easier to regulate them: people with no money have no interest in investing in a new car or car mods or whatnot.
Money goes both ways.
 
you can't control aftermarket reasonably anyway, but new car sales are hugely driven by the new emission regulations
 
@BartekBanachewicz The former has nowhere near the same impact.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that and as far as I know, 'power' can be generated with less pollution per W in a big power plant than in individual cars, scale of economy sort of thing.
 
and the fact that said DPF is hellishly expensive to replace/maintain is just great for dealers
 
1:47 PM
@BartekBanachewicz And new car sales have very little and very slow impact in the overall car population.
 
@BartekBanachewicz using it how much? if I never drive, I never cause any more pollution...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes of course not, but nowadays every produced car has one, and factories don't.
 
you know what, fuck this.
 
It's easier to fuck with citizens than with big companies.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Who cares.
 
1:48 PM
I can't be arsed to do this again
 
Big companies are almost citizens.
You can also just not buy a car, which is actually the sort of thing cosh started this with. No car, no DPF.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's... I'm not sure actually
 
@BartekBanachewicz You sure you're making the same mistakes you did when you thought Android 4 was everywhere a while back?
Getting a new car is a lot harder than changing from Android 2.2 to 4.
 
> diesel particulate filter, DPF ; fr. filtre à particules, FAP
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I started this? fuck
 
1:51 PM
@CatPlusPlus I am filtering my particle quit often
 
> The US publisher Ward's, estimate that as of 2010 there were 1.015 billion motor vehicles in use in the world
> Car production in 2014 was about 67.5 millions units, with 89.7 million total vehicles
 
@thecoshman Oh. Twas Jefffrey. Sorry.
@BartekBanachewicz See?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The twat!
 
that would imply new cars make almost 1%, no?
 
Almost 1%! OMG.
 
1:52 PM
well, from one year
 
But after ten years they're old again.
 
ergh... so true
 
user1804599
Is sleep a pure function?
 
@rightfold sure
 
user1804599
:p
 
1:54 PM
AFAIK 'pure' has nothing to do with execution time, it's just the IO
 
@BartekBanachewicz The vast majority of those are parked the vast majority of time, though, but it already gives you an idea of what kind of impact new cars can have and how fast they can have it.
 
user1804599

 
@R.MartinhoFernandes you know...
that makes it even more so for electric vehicles, no?
As in, for them to become really relevant.
 
no, I will not do it. I will keep out of this cesspit
 
but yeah, I guess you can't really control emissions of 99% of cars in the world
 
1:56 PM
But, despite not having a very fast impact, it's still worth adding those new things, because with time, it does have an impact (consider that no car manufactured in the last 23 years in Europe has a carburetor, for instance). It's just slow.
 
23 years? o.O
what the
 
@sehe At least GCC/ld can link directly to a DLL.
 
I don't believe you
 
@BartekBanachewicz All petrol engines from 1992 onward have fuel injection.
 
user1804599
1:57 PM
synchronity analysis
 
> In Australia, some cars continued to use carburetors well into the 1990s; these included the Honda Civic (1993), the Ford Laser (1994), the Mazda 323 and Mitsubishi Magna sedans (1996), the Daihatsu Charade (1997), and the Suzuki Swift (1999). Low-cost commercial vans and 4WDs in Australia continued with carburetors even into the 2000s, the last being the Mitsubishi Express van in 2003.[citation needed] Elsewhere, certain Lada cars used carburetors until 2006
 
I'm glad they chose fuel injection instead of making fuel singletons
 
user1804599
citizen petrol
 
user1804599
badge
 
@BartekBanachewicz Er, I did say Europe, didn't I?
 
1:58 PM
9 years is more believable than 23
@R.MartinhoFernandes isn't Lada in Europe?
oh it's Russian
well shit.
 
Technically, no.
 
I guess you're right then.
 
But I guess I meant "sold" not "manufactured", then.
 

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