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12:00 PM
they do something actualy productive. they fix machines. Not write shitty entertainment bullshit that mistakenly gets a "game" label
 
Neither mirroring a tree nor solving the 8 queens problem are of unreasonable complexity.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't have an "attitude". Let's adress the points one by one.
 
It doesn't matter if you don't know outright how to solve them.
You won't know outright how to solve many problems in your job.
That's expected.
 
It's ok to panic during interview. But you can't act out. The fact these people do so after the interview, makes me wonder how they handled themselves during the interview
 
But it's also expected of you to have the ability to solve problems.
 
12:00 PM
Most of those "algorithm" oriented processes involve testing the candidate for a whole day for algorithm questions.
 
On the other hand, since the human brain can memorize only a small amount of knowledge, it's interesting to think that maybe we should abstract away stuff that are considered basics, so that future generations can build on top of those and memorize new stuff.
 
user1804599
@Jefffrey Not my brain.
 
@Mr.kbok I didn't mean it in the American way.
 
@rightfold Your brain fails to memorize any amount of knowledge.
That's probably why you keep saying that every language is great.
 
They don't involve: actual discussion about the candidate's experience, a description of possible job openings, a framing of the candidate's personality; any human aspect whatsoever
 
12:02 PM
@Jefffrey Memorising those things is beyond the point.
 
Ell
it's about the process
 
@Mr.kbok anecdotal
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know, it's about understanding the problem and the solution.
 
@Mr.kbok Nowhere does it say that no other, human or otherwise, contact has happened in the context of these job interviews
 
@Mr.kbok I meant "attitude" as "way of thinking", not in the sense that people "have an attitude".
 
user1804599
12:03 PM
I have an altitude.
 
Also, testing for algorithm problems is skewed in two ways: first, this is way incomplete in regard to programming skill. It's only designing an algorithm for a given problem, whereas in the job you don't ever do algos
 
It's the one-sidedness of the stories that makes me take them with a fair helping of salt
 
@Mr.kbok You do problem solving.
 
@rightfold I noticed. You're quite high, relative to most of us
 
Secondly, there are like three books that you can read and then you ace all of those algo questions because they're all in the books
 
12:04 PM
@Mr.kbok Also, you're again over generalising.
@Mr.kbok And you might still be left out because you just recited a solution.
 
@Mr.kbok That's like saying a carpenter doesn't have to "know" nails. I mean, there's about 6 essential types of them and anybody who can make a table can learn how to do those
 
@Mr.kbok I like to think I would be able to spot the guy that read those books in an interview.
 
They tell you upfront before the interview to read the books vOv
They're only testing your ability to solve well-known CS problems
 
There's also the "let's see how well you prepared for your position = how much you want this job" theory.
 
12:06 PM
In my job, I've been at the whiteboard with my boss several times discussing possible implementations for tricky stuff. How is that any different?
(Besides the stress factor)
@Mr.kbok Yes, again you're making all the assumptions that make your argument hold.
 
@Jefffrey How much you want the job is probably inversely correlated with your actual value on the market.
 
Is there a chat room that is new comer friendly?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's not an assumption?
 

Haskell

Haskell. We endorse Alex' attempts to learn Haskell.
 
It is uptalk?
 
user1804599
12:08 PM
How can people keep commit summaries under 50 characters?
 
@Mr.kbok Maybe it's a fact, but then it's a fact in some context that you decided to restrict yourself to that doesn't match the context that everyone else is discussing.
 
@rightfold I can't don't
 
@rightfold "code"
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes What is generalising? The fact that you don't do algos?
 
user1804599
>>> len('Use a dict comprehension instead of a for loop in _dependency_kwargs')
68
 
12:09 PM
Facebook turned me down. It was a great opportunity to connect with some fantastic people. Looking forward to life's next adventure.
 
I would stop this conversation. All the loaded questions. That aren't.
 
also relevant
 
are those failed interviews tweets or what?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fine. Let's settle the context.
 
Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but you can’t invert a binary tree on a whiteboard so fuck off.
 
12:10 PM
@Mr.kbok You mean, "you will have to agree to make all the assumptions that make my argument work" ? :S
 
user1804599
I should install TeamCity again.
 
@MarcoA. yes
 
@sehe No. I'm not trying to spoon feed you my point here.
 
user1804599
Meh, server is not powerful enough for it.
 
This is the context. A 136-character one-sided tale of a failed interview involving an ambiguously described problem.
 
12:11 PM
@Mr.kbok not me.
 
I have an honest opinion, and if I'm wrong somewhere, I want to know how and why
 
I like 8 queens
but I used to solve it with prolog for an exam
 
@BartekBanachewicz I meant: is there a C++ chat room that is new comer friendly?
 
@Mr.kbok he he, true
 
@Warosaurus What the hell does that mean?
 
12:12 PM
My point is that algo questions marathons as interviews are stupid, useless, monocultural and alienating
 
prolog is the best language ever: if your problem has a solution, it will find it in a finite amount of time. But if your problem can't be solved it will cycle forever.
 
@Warosaurus No, every C++ chatroom is as bitter as C++ itself.
 
No wonder nobody only bartek uses it :>
 
@Mr.kbok Yes, and my point is that no one is talking about algo questions marathons. Simple.
 
user1804599
8 queens is more than 25 lines of APL.
 
user1804599
12:12 PM
Conclusion: NOPE NOPE NOPE.
 
@MarcoA. I like Prolog
 
@Mr.kbok I think I didn't notice your opinion specifically. My problem with the "algo questions on interviews are shitty and useless" camp is the absoluteness and one-sidedness of the reports.
Sure, if all there is a rote assessment by the office manager on duty, well that would be shitty
 
fixed
 
I like declarative programs in general
declarative parsers are the bestest
 
@sehe One or two algo questions are fine, and useful
I'm talking about the Google process
 
12:14 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I'm not joking: I like their way to approach some algorithmic problems (e.g. sudoku or queens with prolog)
it really makes your life easier
 
user1804599
@MarcoA. Paxos.
 
was ist Paxos?
 
Why is the homebrew author not fit to work at Google?
 
Ich weiß nicht
 
user1804599
@Mr.kbok he doesn't know how to write code that inverts binary trees.
 
12:15 PM
Surely is more than enough competent.
 
@kbok I've seen you say at least two things that indicate you are committing the same ("they do tell you to read those books" (what, that's not a common thing) and "They're only testing your ability to solve well-known CS problems". Who says they do. Even if they ask an algo question (or, god forbid one of them riddles) they can still observe your qualities in the process. And you can observe their qualities
 
@Mr.kbok he couldn't invert a binary tree
 
@Mr.kbok How many have you witnessed?
 
user1804599
You Wouldn't Invert a Binary Tree.
 
@Mr.kbok I think the meaning was: we use your application all the time, but you still have to do some basic crap at the whiteboard or we won't hire you
 
12:16 PM
17 mins ago, by sehe
I feel there's almost always more to it than simple failure to produce a solution
 
@sehe The first one may be anectotal, but it was the case for all the people I know who attempted the process
 
@MarcoA. Yup. And that translates to "entitled" to me
 
Also bloggers
 
@Mr.kbok See, more unspoken assumptions.
He was deemed not fit for whatever unspecified role he interviewed for.
 
12:17 PM
@sehe I would agree with you but I still have to find a serious IT company which doesn't hire with lots of interviews
 
I don't believe they interview for a role, the process is standardized
 
@Mr.kbok How many hired interviewees blogged a transcript of their interview? How many interviewers have published their mode of operation?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Haha alright, thanks ^^, It is my fault for asking questions here that are Gnome specific.
 
@sehe glassdoor, you're not allowed to disclose anything
 
@sehe Dunno, dozens
 
12:18 PM
@MarcoA. huh. Did you read my message inverted? I don't understand the purpose of "but" in your reply
 
@Mr.kbok Every time I've been contacted by them, they specified a role and I was given several questions related to it.
 
@Mr.kbok Wow
 
@sehe There's one above.
 
@MarcoA. Yup.
 
12:18 PM
@sehe I drank two beers, one 'Limoncello' and several wine glasses
 
@sehe Oh, I missed the "hired". Sorry. Then I don't know.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes nice
 
so I might be wrong
 
@MarcoA. Don't drink the cello!
 
wtf
 
12:19 PM
The book part has nothing to do with it though
 
@MarcoA. Also don't drink the wine glasses, for that matter
 
They never suggested I read anything. They just told me "work as X blah blah here's some questions <questions about X>"
 
> When you are asked a coding question, don’t be a pretentious prick and start writing down header includes, blather about “invariants” or “good programming practices” if you don’t know how to solve the problem.
 
They probably have several kind of processes then.
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus You know this kind of stuff. Is there a free CI tool as good as TeamCity that doesn't use 10000TB RAM?
 
12:21 PM
.............
 
@BartekBanachewicz That's a great point.
 
I don't think I want to be a "programmer", "software engineer", "developer" or whatever you call that anymore
 
Numerous reasons I guess.
 
Buttenly a Suddefly
 
12:22 PM
One of them is that I like programming.
 
40
Q: Is it okay to ask for respect from interviewer?

Ronnie W.In a past interview for a company I had several one-on-one interviews with several different people. With one individual, the interviewer's phone rang and he answered the phone and talked to his wife for a couple minutes. On another occasion with another company, a group was interviewing me a...

 
@BartekBanachewicz Zing
 
@Mr.kbok respect bro
 
I'd like to do it in my free time and I can't do it reasonably if I spend 8 hours every day coding at work
 
@Mr.kbok lol
 
12:23 PM
it's just unhealthy
 
U GOTTA SHOW RESPEKT
 
@rightfold have you tried travis?
 
@Mr.kbok RESPREKT
 
user1804599
Yes.
 
user1804599
12:24 PM
It was terrible.
 
ok, declined
 
I need some help with bitshifts
 
@BartekBanachewicz Having a work where you don't code for 40hrs a week is probably a good start
bitshits
 
is it possible to detect the bits that are overflowed in a bitshift?
 
@MichaelMitchell this is a smiley face: >.> while this is a bitshift >>
 
user1804599
12:24 PM
Jenkins was suboptimal.
 
@Mr.kbok it's still sitting in front of the computer
 
do not confuse the two things
 
@buttifulbuttefly is the local expert on bitshits
 
user1804599
Very cluttered UI, almost as if it was designed by somebody who works at Atlassian.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You can be a manager and do meetings all week long
 
12:25 PM
@rightfold it can't be worse than my kbase
come on
 
@Mr.kbok I don't have any reasonable/relevant skills to be a manager
besides no one would hire me as a manager
 
Apple would hire me straight away as the perfect example of how a UI should not look like
 
@BartekBanachewicz Your error lies in thinking you need any
 
to train their engineers
 
@Mr.kbok I do if I want to get hired.
I think I'd really like to move to teaching more.
 
12:26 PM
You need bullshitting skills to get hired, then banco :)
 
I don't have them either
 
Ell
I like the idea of managing
 
try banking
 
Ell
I like the idea of banking also
I like the idea of money :P
 
> I wouldn't be able to do any of those interview questions at all, if that is the standard for companies then I am fucked.
 
12:28 PM
money is perfectly fine as long as you don't get into shit when making it
 
See, this is just the wrong approach.
It reads like "I am not able to solve problems, if that is the standard for companies then I am fucked."
 
> Currently we don't employ a repository or source check out facility.
 
And yes, you fucking are fucked if you can't solve problems.
You'll be stuck with CRUD.
 
user1804599
Nonono.
 
user1804599
Interns are cheaper.
 
12:29 PM
We need crud people too
 
user1804599
And therefore preferred.
 
@Borgleader "4 developers" while tagged
 
essentially, what I am wondering is if there is an instruction/intrinsic that I could use that gives the overflow from a bitshift
 
Hi Pat, you probably need to start using subversion or git in your team. That will help in your merging issues. — Mr. kbok 7 secs ago
Training my kindness
 
like the instruction adcx which gives an overflow flag for addition
 
12:32 PM
You want the flag of the overflowing part?
 
I want a value of the overflowed bits
 
Why don't you shift to the right?
 
that is true, but I was wondering if there would be a way to do that in one operation
 
what for?
 
That's unlikely, and honestly I don't think we have such x86_64 experts here
 
12:33 PM
@rightfold Disappointed:
 
Also:
 
@Mr.kbok Actually I think we do
 
If your bitshits are overflowing try flushing the pipeline
 
@Mr.kbok I am pretty sure every x64 shift discards the bits
 
12:34 PM
@MichaelMitchell Shit pun.
 
@MichaelMitchell I think he's trolling there
 
@MichaelMitchell All the overflow bits or just a flag?
 
@sehe You mean Mysticial?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes all the bits
 
12:35 PM
The overflow bits can be easily computed.
 
it looks like doing a right shift first is the way to go
 
@Mr.kbok as well
 
The overflow bits for x << n are x >> (bitsof(x)-n)
(assuming x is unsigned, as it should be.)
 
ofcourse haha
 
12:36 PM
@milleniumbug I didn't get there... I could hardly believe they werent using source control
 
im trying to implement a 2048bit number
 
never been done before :)
 
I guessed so.
 
and bitshifting across an array of uint64
 
4 mins ago, by Mr. kbok
Why don't you shift to the right?
 
12:37 PM
yes GMP is a library
 
inb4 Lion King
 
Nobody listens to me :(
 
congrats, im glad you know of it
@Mr.kbok I responded to what you said
 
ITT puppy is missing lounge presence but participating on the main site
Cats and dogs living together
 
> About 1/10 candidates pass this step, because most candidates (even with master’s degrees and claimed multi-year experience) are completely incompetent.
 
12:41 PM
The Lion King is awesome. I totally forgot how great it was.
 
Frankly, that doesn't surprise me.
 
Most people suck
 
Or other forms of sexual activity
 
@BartekBanachewicz I feel that.
 
@BartekBanachewicz well, not eating is also not very healthy :)
 
12:44 PM
@ThomasOwens I am not an active participant of that community precisely because a lot of questions there are very opinionated, but despite that get a lot of upvotes and are IMHO generally accepted. YMMV I guess. — Bartek Banachewicz 20 secs ago
is that too much?
 
I am addicted to this online horror novel, but the author only write 1000-2000 words a week nowadays
trying my patience
 
try mailing them cocaine
worked for Robert Louis Stevenson
 
oh well that guy is a mod on programmers
 
lol
"Please Bartek stop sending us the shitty questions thanks"
 
We should have a periodic "gentle month". Where we all strive to be as cordial as possible to everyone on SO and SO.chat.
Then, after that, we can get back to being... well, what we are right now.
 
12:48 PM
Programmers.SE is a shitty cesspit so IDGI anyway
> software requirements
software architecture and design
algorithm and data structure concepts
development methodologies and processes
software engineering management
 
it's a pile of sorrow
 
Sorry, I mean, like a canadian month. Sorry again. Apologizes.
 
Reminds me. There's this mission in TimeSplitters Future Perfect in 1920 Scotland which features a steam-powered robot named..... Robot Louis Stevenson.
> Away from the pressures of his day job, this multitalented mechanical marvel of the modern age likes to let off steam writing romantic potboilers. Unfortunately, like many Victorian authors, he is afflicted by a compulsive vice, in his case an unshakeable coke habit...
 
he wrote the strange case of dr jekyll and my hyde in 3 to 6 days
 
You see, it's funny because "coke" refers to the kind of fuel here. Ha. Ha.
 
12:51 PM
shitty fuel
 
> I'm trying really hard to refactor some of my legacy code in the project using best practices and design patterns
programmers.se.jpg
 
@BartekBanachewicz Best practices? Great! Design patterns? Err....
 
I'm trying really hard
 
Design patterns ftw!
 
"fucking the worst"?
 
12:57 PM
cargo build --release
so much better than make
 
cargo build --please
 
cargo cult --for-the-win
 
and it downloads and compiles dependencies automatically
amazing
 
-5
A: How do I create a teardrop in HTML?

ShazimSystem.out.println("Andrew is stupid");System.out.println("Andrew is stupid");

 
objective fact
best fact
@Mr.kbok 1. install drupal 2. ??? 3. profit!!
 
12:59 PM
3
Q: Boss is afraid to use a version control system for new project, should I anyway?

user42069See Superior refusing to use subversion My question is similar, but here are the main differences in my scenario: We are starting a new project from scratch, using PHP and web tech. There would be no down time in development as we would be adopting it from the beginning, if I have my way. My d...

 

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