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12:00 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I wasn't bashing it? I questioned what encryption they used, because initially he didn't provide it, next the key generation method, which is the weakest link
and it's not dropbox but his password manager
 
> weakest link
 
@BartekBanachewicz get your facts straight
 
yeah this is the crypto breaking BS again
 
lol I love how dramatic this video is (explanation: guy joins random lobby with players MUCH lower than him in rank; they're at a rank where people often get stuck due to not improving their play, and can stay there for months) youtube.com/watch?v=hWDOOLACRoY
 
@Cat thank god you're here
 
12:01 PM
I especially love the "PLEASE HELP US" guy
 
@BartekBanachewicz yes, in crypto, provided the mechanism is fine, key is the weakest link - that's a fucking fact
 
@Nisk you ----------------------------------- the point
 
SORM (Russian: Система Оперативно-Розыскных Мероприятий, literally "System for Operative Investigative Activities") is a technical system for search and surveillance in the internet. A Russian law passed in 1995 allows the FSB to monitor telephone and internet communications. == SORM-1 == SORM-1 system has been established in 1996 to monitor telephone communications. == SORM-2 == In July 1998 the system was replaced by SORM‑2 to allow monitoring of the internet, in addition to telephone communications. According to some reports, under SORM‑2 Russian Internet service providers (ISPs) must install...
for what it's worth... they did it first
 
@Nisk That's why you use good passwords, and not "6-character ones"
 
C++ is a bloated language, hard to learn, hard to debug. Today, when Java already has the same performance as C++, there is no reason whatsoever to use it.
21
 
12:03 PM
0/10
 
u wot m8
 
@BartekBanachewicz once again more opinion, minus any valid points. Also inability to counter my point (ignoring them), makes you look lacking in certain departments, while ironically thinking you're not. Enough.
 
@AndrévonKugland how about memory use? :) (taking on the trolling, alright)
 
@AndrévonKugland I like your style. Have a star of shame.
 
KeePass is open-source so you can just look at the KDF you know
(It's probably bcrypt)
 
12:04 PM
Just buy more memory, Bartek.
 
@Nisk sigh no one breaks crypto these days. It's literally cheaper and safer to break into someone's house.
 
@milleniumbug hey, difference between knowing good security and practicing good security - my initial qualm was not remembering the fucking password for Project Euler...if someone managed to log in and impersonate me there...well god, what would I do...
 
lol that's not true
Side channels are a thing
 
@AndrévonKugland what if you're selling 100,000 of devices, and additional memory costs $10 per device?
 
@AndrévonKugland 0/10 troll harder
 
12:05 PM
@Mgetz or not at all :(
 
@CatPlusPlus If breaking into your house to obtain the post-it on your screen isn't a "side channel", I don't know what is :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz O RLY? with SSL making headlines for months with poor crypto? No one is breaking crypto? :D
 
@AlexM. eh, if they are going to troll they could at least attack things like preprocessor and the lack of modules and type reflection
 
@Nisk They would then try the same password or modifications on your bank account or email account. From there, it's a short path to being pwn3d like a n00b.
 
@Nisk proper encryption software advances faster than encryption breaking vOv
 
12:06 PM
@Mgetz that wouldn't be trolling.
 
@CatPlusPlus /agree
 
@BartekBanachewicz If you are developing for a memory-constrained device, then use plain C.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes fair 'nuf
 
@Mgetz why even troll though
 
@milleniumbug like I said, I actually random passwords for sensitive stuff, bank accounts included
 
12:07 PM
I don't get it, there's no benefit to it
it's just wasted time
 
@AndrévonKugland What about development costs? What about number of bugs? What about interoperability with both C and C++ ecosystem?
 
@AndrévonKugland I like github's pink color for C++ projects, I simply would never drop it for the horrible java color
3
that's a reason everyone here always keeps in mind
we're professionals
 
is java color the "poo brown"?
 
@AlexM. Insert that "it was only a joke" image I can never find
 
yes, bleah
 
12:08 PM
@BartekBanachewicz cosmic caca
 
@Nisk Email is sensitive stuff.
 
@LucDanton yes please :)
 
@sehe I would never gif, except maybe bjarne.gif.
 
@Nisk that was it indeed (the community version of JtR with hand crafted list of MARKOV generated password to explicitly target the known constraints) /cc @Nisk
 
Poor crypto aside, not using a password manager is a terrible practice
 
12:10 PM
bjarne.gif best gif
 
I still can't decide which one to use
they all seem annoying
 
And people do break crypto
 
@BartekBanachewicz software is just the implementation, upgrading crypto software is not necessarily straight forward, especially if say the weakness was poo key generation. I'm not talking about implementation attacks (some of the SSL ones were due to poor implementation), fundamental theory attacks are way more serious
 
Crypto is about breaking crypto
3
 
@Nisk Therefore it's better to use no crypto at all.
 
12:10 PM
@BartekBanachewicz C++ is not a good option for a memory-constrained device. A simple “Hello world” using iostreams and boost/format will have >100kb of code.
 
@Nisk the purpose of cryptography is NOT to prevent people from reading the encrypted material. It is to DELAY the reading until such time as it is no longer useful
 
The fundamental theory attack on your 6-character password is "lol you're terrible at this"
4
 
@sehe the password strength indicator thing? Did you actually look it up?
 
$ make fieldbenchmark
g++ -c -Wall -Wextra -pedantic -I. -I.. -O0 -g -Wno-unused-value fieldbenchmark.cpp -o fieldbenchmark.o
fieldbenchmark.cpp: In function ‘int main()’:
fieldbenchmark.cpp:37: warning: unused variable ‘sinkhole’
fieldbenchmark.cpp:44: warning: unused variable ‘sinkhole’
fieldbenchmark.cpp:51: warning: unused variable ‘sinkhole’
fieldbenchmark.cpp:58: warning: unused variable ‘sinkhole’
etc. good job GCC
 
Who the fuck uses iostreams in embedded devices?
 
12:12 PM
@Mgetz not if we talk quantom crypto ;)
 
I mean, what the fuck for?
 
depends what the embedded device does
if it's a Raspberry Pi then why the fuck not
 
what if it streams io
 
those things are more powerful than my PC was 10 years ago
 
@AndrévonKugland The same you can say about printf. It's bloated as fuck.
 
12:12 PM
@Nisk "Hey.... this message has been changed?!" "did you look at it?" "Oh... right"
 
@LightningRacisinObrit that's a general purpose computer :s
 
@Mgetz hah, nice
 
@AndrévonKugland you don't have to use boost.Format and iostreams to take advantage of C++ benefits.
 
50 secs ago, by Lightning Racis in Obrit
depends what the embedded device does
Your "embedded devices" statement is overly broad, is my point.
 
My ponit is why are you even continuing this thread
 
12:13 PM
@Nisk Why would I? (a) my points aren't about (b) your point to which I originally reponded also wasn't about that (c) I don't think I'll learn much new by looking it up :/
 
> My pony
 
@Mgetz well done, you just trivially broke the tampering mechanism offered by quantum crypto with your clever anecdote...not.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes people who don't care about the problems vOv
 
Quantum computers are very relevant at the moment yes
 
12:14 PM
@Nisk it was a joke... that has nothing to do with real quantum cryptography
 
@Nisk Here goes another: herp derp quantum derp herp.
 
@sehe in that case I've no idea what that was referring to.
 
kugland@pocoto:~% gcc -static hello.c -Os
kugland@pocoto:~% ls -l ./a.out
-rwxr-xr-x 1 kugland users 793K Apr 21 09:13 ./a.out
kugland@pocoto:~% g++ -static hello.cpp -Os
kugland@pocoto:~% ls -l ./a.out
-rwxr-xr-x 1 kugland users 1.6M Apr 21 09:14 ./a.out
 
@Nisk Every time you use the Q-word in your conversation I automatically assume you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
And JVM is 300MB so the fuck what
 
12:15 PM
^
 
Why are you even here
Go away
 
Is that an embedded device you're targetting?
 
@CatPlusPlus he's trying to troll and I'm feeding him
@AndrévonKugland this links the whole stdlib
 
@Nisk Never find out. (HINT: reply arrows exist for a reason. The fact that you don't seem able to use them doesn't mean they don't carry information anymore. But it's clear you were never motivated to listen to any of us tlak. Bye)
 
@AndrévonKugland Neither will fit on my Arduino.
 
12:15 PM
I'm kicking him as soon as I get to a desktop.
 
@milleniumbug true enough, quantum crypto is beyond me - but I know about one tampering aspect of it for a fact, so I referenced it.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes meh he's funny
 
@milleniumbug funny because the Arduino official toolchain is C++
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes who, and what for?
 
Pointless trolling.
 
12:17 PM
trolling is never pointless, is is self pointifying
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes (I don't have an Arduino, I was making a point) Is it hosted implementation?
 
@milleniumbug nope.
 
@sehe so because I didn't notice the arrow is clickable - suddenly I don't pay attention....right
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, I see that thing on the starboard, kick away
 
12:17 PM
@Nisk then why didn't you click it now? o_O
 
That C++ is shit is self-evident so it is waste of time to point it out
 
@CatPlusPlus fair enough
 
@milleniumbug No, totally embedded.
 
@BartekBanachewicz I did
 
I use the latest GCC with C++11 for all my Arduino stuffs.
 
12:18 PM
enough?
 
(Guess next time I'll do C++14)
 
18 hours ago, by milleniumbug
@Veritas Thanks to lack of your arrow use, the discussion looks like this:
18 hours ago, by milleniumbug
A: "I'm hungry" B: "maybe it's because std::back_insert_iterator also checks when to do allocations?"
 
@milleniumbug C: Haskell
 
I think I'll eat fish this evening
 
@sehe if you want I have a gzipped 28GB password list somewhere at home if you want to try again
 
12:19 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I still didn't manage to set up ARM toolchain for g++ proper :(
 
I am not trolling.
 
@AndrévonKugland We don't care about how bad C++ is.
 
@Nisk No that wasn't suddenly.
 
@AndrévonKugland Then that'd make you either extremely ignorant or extremely dumb. Either way, what robot said.
 
@AndrévonKugland How can we recognise? Every troll says that.
 
12:20 PM
@AndrévonKugland If your purpose was to tell us how bad C++ is, you can leave.
 
We know.
We deal with it every day.
 
If there was some other purpose, you can start working towards it, because you haven't so far.
 
his avatar speaks troll m8s
he's obvious
 
Badly-implemented too, in the current state of compilers.
 
WE KNOW
 
12:21 PM
@Nisk I bet you do. The real question is, will you crack my 6y/o's only lowercase 14 char password that he picked and remembers by heart?
 
@AndrévonKugland Out you go.
 
DONT USE IT AND SHUT UP
 
@AndrévonKugland Badly-implemented troll?
 
@sehe you referenced a message from quite a while ago and I didn't know about the reply arrows, what'd you expect, I assumed the previous point, since that kind of fitted the response
 
@sehe I already did
 
12:22 PM
@sehe hunter2hunter2
 
@sehe if you pay for the ec2 instances + my time, sure :)
 
Are you a bot
Do you run on the EC2 instances?
 
For instance, can you move a std::ostringstream using GNU C++ library? No, you can’t, it is not implemented.
 
@AndrévonKugland And now you go for 30 minutes. Have fun!
 
Yet the standard is 4 years old.
 
12:23 PM
So?
 
user1804599
lol, a troll
 
Again, everyone knows that C++ and its implementations and ecosystem are absolute shit
Some not-completely-insane people like me stopped using it years ago
 
@Nisk lame
 
yet, you choose to stay with insane people here day in & day out :'(
 
@Nisk i.imgur.com/5a44lLL.png I don't see what part could have been ambiguous
"I have a 28GB password list" is right up there with "but quantum bla bla"
 
12:26 PM
@sehe what has one got ANYTHING to do with the other?
 
I just received a spam flag in the javascript room where André von Kugland wrote "Javascript isn't even a real language, learn C++"
lol
 
@sehe if you are attempting to discredit what I said - you're doing a piss poor job, otherwise I have no idea what is going on in your head.
 
Low-effort idiot troll
 
@CatPlusPlus you are completely insane though
 
Bartek has no sense of humour
 
12:27 PM
@Nisk Nothing. I never said they have. They're both hand-wavy things even script kiddies can say
 
@CatPlusPlus HEY I HAVE SOME
 
@BartekBanachewicz No see I don't use C++
 
Or Haskell
zing
 
@BartekBanachewicz three?
 
12:28 PM
@rightfold and a lame one at that
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ¬_¬ if I we had another owner or two...
 
Beh I have another flat move queued up
 
how can pepsi light have 0.4kcal/100ml it sounds wrong
 
@sehe Hand-wavy dismissal. poor form.
 
such a risky thing to stir up ownership :S
 
12:28 PM
@sehe does -1 qualify as 'some'?
 
@thecoshman What, room owners lacking again?
 
even without sugar
 
@sehe also, who would you be to call others skidys from the get-go?
 
                         _..-------++._
                     _.-'/ |      _||  \"--._
               __.--'`._/_\j_____/_||___\    `----.
          _.--'_____    |          \     _____    /
        _j    /,---.\   |        =o |   /,---.\   |_
       [__]==// .-. \\==`===========/==// .-. \\=[__]
         `-._|\ `-' /|___\_________/___|\ `-' /|_.'
               `---'                     `---'
 
12:29 PM
@Nisk I didn't. Read.
 
@sehe yeah I have precisely 3 humor
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes wait o_0 cat's an owner... why didn't he kick? @CatPlusPlus ANSWER FOR YOUR CRIMES!
 
@CatPlusPlus me too. But that one's for good!
 
and we are down to only 9 :\
 
@sehe fine, implied.
@sehe if you are going to draw vague parallels I have no problems calling you out on it
 
12:31 PM
> draw vague parallels
we're on level 2 officially
 
@BartekBanachewicz ... why?
 
@thecoshman it's a car analogy
 
@BartekBanachewicz I think car analogies are another form of logical fallacy...
 
> You made an argument by comparing it to the workings of a car, your argument counts for nothing. Move back to the start, do not pass go, do not collect any credibility
 
12:33 PM
8 mins ago, by sehe
@Nisk http://i.imgur.com/5a44lLL.png I don't see what part could have been ambiguous
 
@thecoshman nah, they aren't.
 
That's unanswered.
The remark you're fuming about for minutes now wasn't even specifically to you. I was just musing that out loud in the lounge.
 
The car analogy is a common technique used by engineering textbooks to ease the understanding of abstract concepts. == Uses of car analogies == The efficiency of car analogies reside on their capacity to explain difficult concepts (usually due to their high abstraction level) on more mundane terms with which the target audience is comfortable, and with which many also have a special interest. Due to that, car analogies appear more often on works related to applied sciences and technology. In order to work, car analogies translate agents of action as the car driver, the seller, or police officers...
 
@BartekBanachewicz please, for the sake of what little sanity I have left, please stop taking everything literally.
 
@sehe What is @Nisk even trying to argue here?
 
12:34 PM
... except that, that you should take literally
... and that
 
@BartekBanachewicz brum brum
 
oh god help!
 
And thecosh now hits the common knowledge problem.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ?
 
I'm going to throw some opinions around, with unjustified words like 'FUD' that I myself have injected into the conversation, ignore valid points you make that I can't disprove (because that's the only way I can debate - by throwing shit at the wall and hope something sticks), then I'm going to block direct replies and quote you out, while making little private jokes...who am I?
 
12:35 PM
I know what you mean, but not how it applies
 
@thecoshman It's a logic thing.
 
@Nisk no, stop right there
opinions are not to be expressed, only suppressed
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fuck knows
 
@thecoshman You have no way of making sure both of you know you meant that first sentence literally.
 
like that feeling of longing for a loving embrace from the mother you never knew
 
12:36 PM
From your mother
 
@thecoshman well I didn't fill the missing gap did I
 
@CatPlusPlus I certainly hope my mother doesn't know you, I wouldn't wish that on anyone
@Nisk ow, I just read that
 
@thecoshman ahaha
@R.MartinhoFernandes can you prove that?
 
It has been a whole week, the registered letter I posted last Wednesday to an address in the same city, its status is still 'in transit'
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes?
 
12:39 PM
like seriously ...
 
intuition tells me you just need one sentence both of the speakers can assess as correct literally
 
@BartekBanachewicz Science is about proving you can't disprove :D
 
@BartekBanachewicz No. That's mutual knowledge, not common knowledge.
 
@sehe well you sure can leave a lot of room for interpretation by mentioning the phrase "script-kiddies" and quoting things I said in the same sentence.
 
@BartekBanachewicz how can you get that if nothing can be taken literally?
 
Xeo
12:40 PM
@CatPlusPlus But insanity is fun!
 
@BartekBanachewicz Common knowledge involves both of you knowing that the other knows that, and knowing that the other knows that the other knows that, and so on.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes o.O
 
Consensus is hard
 
@BartekBanachewicz Mutual knowledge only implies that both of you know the same thing. It says nothing about you knowing that the other knows.
 
ah I see
 
12:42 PM
Common knowledge is a special kind of knowledge for a group of agents. There is common knowledge of p in a group of agents G when all the agents in G know p, they all know that they know p, they all know that they all know that they know p, and so on ad infinitum. The concept was first introduced in the philosophical literature by David Kellogg Lewis in his study Convention (1969). It was first given a mathematical formulation in a set-theoretical framework by Robert Aumann (1976). Computer scientists grew an interest in the subject of epistemic logic in general – and of common knowledge in...
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not sure. He was waxing crazy about how passwords suck and therefore password restrictions should go; hackers would just download the password list anyways. Apparently "even the best passwords are based on a pattern'.
At that time I thought I'd engage. But since then I sadly did not see any discussion on the subject itself.
 
@sehe ooh, nice aim
 
Yeah sorry
 
Well, some password restrictions really should go
 
@sehe oh miss your, know problem ate all :D
@CatPlusPlus vOv minimum length is about the only goood one
maybe forcing a bit more variety
 
user1804599
12:46 PM
Is it worth using LDAP for authentication for a single service?
 
Yes no maybe
4
 
user1804599
Hmm.
 
Do you know LDAP
 
> If you get in touch with the customer services team directly using the online contact form they might be able to manually delete the playlist for you, I'm not sure if it is possible though!
 
user1804599
No.
 
12:46 PM
good evening Agent C
 
Then no
 
Wow, Spotify is awesome.
2
 
user1804599
Ok. :3
 
@rightfold Always. Services tend to clump up.
 
12:46 PM
how are we
 
@LightningRacisinObrit they all already know
and they all already know that they all already know
 
@rightfold the real question people need to be asking is, is it worth using authentication?
 
lol someone flagged the mere mention of IE6
 
IE6 is a lie
 
12:47 PM
IE6
 
Rightfully.
 
@CatPlusPlus compleletly agreed. There should at least be some common standard that is accepted everywhere.
 
IE6 is offensive.
 
> it is "(k − 1)th order" knowledge.
 
12:48 PM
@Nisk I mean you can talk bad-ass like that ("what you said means nothing" -- nevermind Keepass can just be googled and is even open source) but the same goes for "I have a 28GB password list". That doesn't give you any more credibility.
And you still never came back on the subject. I'm going to guess any "ambiguity" in the response is really not the issue
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes grooveshark is still somewhat reasonable imo
 
what's grooveshark
 
yeah but Grooveshark is the teenager's bedroom floor to Spotify's executive filing cabinet
my OCD can't take it
 
potentially spelled wrong ofc
 
so the filing cabinet has draws that don't open all the way, until they do and then the whole thing falls over cos it's not attached to the wall properly
it's still a filing cabinet
 
12:49 PM
is there much hardware supporting it?
 
@BartekBanachewicz yes
 
@thecoshman how is it that the only time you admit your spelling sucks is directly after uncharacteristically nailing it? :P
 
#takethebait
 
@LightningRacisinObrit what an analogy :) I like it
 
12:50 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes you know, a/v receivers, wifi speakers, the like
 
haha :)
yeah I'm pleased with it
 
gaming consoles (yay spotify on playstation)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes never heard about Spotify Connect?
 
Spotify on Onkyo receivers
 
12:50 PM
@BartekBanachewicz ooooh, sensible question was it. Groove shark is a web site... if shit can run a web site, it can run... well ok, it uses non shit browser tech
 
Sounds like another of those horrible things I don't need.
 
twitterising it for maximum sharing potential
could become famous
kinda hope I don't
 
I don't know why you'd say it's horrible.
 
don't need the internet poking around my horrid previous tweets and out of date website etc etc
 
You might not need it, okay. But it's plenty useful.
 
12:51 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hardhat
 
the point is your speaker set can use its wifi or ethernet connection to stream music to itself and your phone is just a remote
you don't have to maintain a lossy BT connection.
 
lol lossy connection
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's a site, it plays music... what's to not like?
 
Is that a new audiophile thing
 
@CatPlusPlus Hardhate
 
12:52 PM
Gold plated radio waves
 
@CatPlusPlus WiFi Lossless.
 
@BartekBanachewicz because Spotify is pretty horrible. It's just convenient. But it's not good for collection. it's not good for managing. It's not good for fidelity. It's not good for artists. It's not good for freedom.
I love Spotify, but I likely don't require it on my refrigerator
 
@sehe I can't hear you over the sound of convenient.
 
@BartekBanachewicz you know, you could just use not shit set up vOv
 
@BartekBanachewicz And Spotify Connect is Spotify's attempt at taking over a space already covered by existing protocols?
 
12:53 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Precisely
@R.MartinhoFernandes iTunes (and Logitech has something, perhaps it already died)
 
@CatPlusPlus Uh, non-apt-X BT audio profile isn't particularly fast
@R.MartinhoFernandes mmm... not really.
 
@BartekBanachewicz How not, then?
4 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
is there much hardware supporting it?
cough
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not aware of any other protocol for that TBH, sans spotify-like solutions (Deezer?)
 
The very existence of that question says everything.
 
I am pretty sure UPnP can't do that that way
 
12:55 PM
The one thing I really like about music sites is that the let me find other bands to get board of
 
@BartekBanachewicz Which way?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes uh, if I had an existing protocol, I might not need to buy another device, how about that.
 
@BartekBanachewicz UPnp => Universal Pile n Poop
 
Remotely controlling a media server?
 
@thecoshman "get bored of"?
 
12:55 PM
@sehe get tired of
 
Just checking (board!=bored)
 
o_0
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Nah, it has the "remote controller profile" I'm sure. But Spotify has its own streaming, so you'd need to be able to remotely control a streaming player
I admit I'm not an expert on UPnP
 
@sehe chip or hard?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Which no one ever did before Spotify.
 
12:56 PM
@thecoshman hard, of course
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes on an A/V receiver or a speaker set?
it's not about a PoC sketch
 
@BartekBanachewicz Does the speaker support it?
 
I have a 8 kbps song on my playlist.
 
3 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@sehe I can't hear you over the sound of convenient.
 
@sehe varnished?
or waxed?
 
12:57 PM
My point is that hardware supporting Spotify Connect shouldn't exist.
Fuck Spotify for pushing it.
 
wtf? hardware support? FUCKING SPEAKERS MATE!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes because spotify should use UPnP controller profile?
 
@milleniumbug wat
 
you just hook them up to the mains and start rocking out to 50hz of awesome!
 
as I said, not sure if it fits here.
 
12:58 PM
3.5mm jack for life
 
@BartekBanachewicz Straw man?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, example solution
 
@milleniumbug pleb, speakon
 
The assumption that no streaming protocols exist is so... Bartek :(
 
@milleniumbug meh. Most of those are flimsy as fuck.
@R.MartinhoFernandes FFS I haven't said that.
it's not about "streaming protocol"
 
12:58 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Your question only makes sense if you assume it.
@BartekBanachewicz Then about what?
 
it's about telling the devices what to stream from where from other devices
 
what are you even debating?
 
because that's what Connect does
 
Yep, totally something that never existed.
 
12:59 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Nobody is
 
2 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
it's not about a PoC sketch
 
@AlexM. Oh wait, it was actually 16 kbps.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, examples?
 
@BartekBanachewicz It's just broadcast/multicast
 

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