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12:01 PM
@Rapptz You around? I’m thinking of making expr ‘smart’. So expr<foo> as shorthand for expr<foo, valid>, expr<foo, bool> for implicit conversions, expr<foo, explicit_<bool>> for explicit, and expr<foo, exact<bool>> for, well, the obvious. Bikeshed free-for-all once again (contextual instead of explicit_ because underscores are ugly?).
 
you met Stephan T. Lavavej's parents?
 
has anyone watched Herb's talk from CppCon? I find the guideline on parameter passing starting at 1:06:48 controversial
 
@AndyProwl it's egregious I'll admit
 
@Rapptz Oh, also ConceptsLite has { foo } -> Iterable const&, so expr<foo, models<Iterable>> or similar although it’s never going to be as nice (consider multiparam concepts) because I really don’t want to venture into the placeholder business. I’ll put off implementing this altogether in any case.
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl Can you link the video?
 
12:06 PM
@thecoshman he's saying for something like set_x() we should pass by const ref + copy rather than by value + move. He then gives an example for std::string, where he justifies saying that most of the time SSO and bla bla
But that's specific to std::string, in the general case it does not need to apply
 
@AndyProwl I saw the slides and didn't like it.
We discussed it a few weeks ago.
 
@LucDanton Oh you're doing expr<A, B> to be equivalent to Concepts Lite { A } -> B?
 
He's basically saying "don't mind if you always copy even in case the client provides an lvalue, because that copy will be cheap... for std::string"
I don't get it
 
@AndyProwl hint: I've not watched it, nor do I care.
 
12:08 PM
@Rapptz Ye. With template<typename Expr, typename Expected = valid> struct expr; as the primary template for expr<foo> purposes.
 
user1804599
3GHz 16GB cheap enough.
 
@thecoshman How can you not care about C++? :P
 
@LucDanton I like it.
 
I said I would put it off but I’m done with it.
 
12:16 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit please bare with his armature knowledge
 
@AndyProwl that sounds weird
 
@AndyProwl it's not just C++
 
programming in general?
 
@AndyProwl sure
 
@jalf I'm still trying to wrap my head around it
@thecoshman indeed there's better things in life
 
12:24 PM
@AndyProwl just about
 
@thecoshman lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes how doctors go?
 
@AndyProwl :D
0
A: Calling clear() on a vector of shared_ptr. Will memory be freed?

Lightness Races in OrbitYes.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

 
I’m trying to limit annex dependencies. Is there an easy way for e.g. logical conjunction with <type_traits> in C++14?
 
so basically: "copying even when you have rvalues is not that bad, because you reuse the storage of the assignee and need no dynamic allocations; moving from a copy-constructed object is bad, because that causes a dynamic allocation"
does that make sense?
 
Ell
12:32 PM
Herb says use T* for optional parameters too
 
that makes sense. It's the "don't take by value + move by default (for sink parameters)" that confuses me
 
> Built with beta version of Unity. Will only work on your computer!
sorry people, it only works on my computer
 
also, when I call something like set_name() I most often provide an rvalue
 
@AndyProwl You know what? @01:15, fuck you.
 
12:41 PM
@Neil - Okay, I've been trying to wrap my mind around this and I just can't understand it. Will people who are alive be experiencing time backwards? Will they suddenly get younger instead of older? Or will we just be watching ourselves get younger, but doing all the things we did anyway? Will dead people suddenly wake up old and then experience becoming children? So many questions! — C Bauer 12 mins ago
@AndyProwl That's not Herb Sutter!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes 1 minute 15 secs or 1 hour 15 mins? (actually they're kind of related)
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl I think his advice is alright, but he misses a CRUCIAL part of it: why isn't the perfect-forwarding bit available to a person who wants to have the implementation in a compiled C++ file (e.g., not in the header but in a translation unit)?
 
I stopped watching at the "Reality Check" slide. I'm not listening to a speech on "reality checks" from a guy who thinks auto main() -> int is a good idea.
 
user3010322
That's the really important part.
 
user3010322
12:46 PM
Because if you could have the perfect-forwarding part outside of a template,
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Can’t really make sense of it without more context.
 
user3010322
you could get all the performance you want and all the benefits that come with writing separate headers + TUs.
 
user3010322
However I don't pretend to have ANY idea how that would ever work out ever. :D
 
user3010322
What could be helpful is having a single-type forwarding syntax.
 
I don't think the advice is "alright" in general. The fact that copy+move from lvalue is generally a heavier pessimization than copying from an rvalue is an interesting insight, but that also assumes you equally often pass lvalues and lvalues. This is a usage pattern you can't establish in advance, and therefore you should code for simplicity first
Unless I'm missing something
 
user3010322
12:48 PM
That's what he said.
 
No it's not
 
user3010322
o.0
 
He said "by default take by const&"
which means "assumes it is equally likely that you will provide lvalues and rvalues"
 
Doesn't it actually mean "assume rvalues are not common"?
Because you can't take advantage of rvalues from that.
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit why do you think it's a bad idea?
besides the extra typing?
 
12:50 PM
or rather "assume that the ratio of frequency (# times you provide lvalues) / (# times you provide rvalues) is greater than the ratio (overhead of dynamic allocation) / (overhead of copying)"
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol
 
@AndyProwl Where does ‘concise and clear API’ fit into those calculations :(
 
@LucDanton It doesn't
 
Aaaaaaand I'm on meta again
0
Q: Very old questions in "Newest" in advanced tag search

seheI just did a search like http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/boost+or+boost-phoenix+boost-spirit+boost-spirit-qi+boost-spirit-phoenix I highlight the "Newest" tab, but note the dates on the bottom half of the screen; What's going on?

 
user3010322
I'm going to write a std::string&&& proposal.
 
user3010322
12:52 PM
It's gonna be fantastic. :3c
 
Ell
what does it do?
 
You're excommunicated
 
(besides, it's not like there's a huge difference in complexity between set_name(std::string) and set_name(std::string const&))
@ThePhD there is a proposal
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl Where!
 
or rather, a discussion on std-proposals
something like std::sink<T>
 
user3010322
12:53 PM
std::sink ?
 
something like that
 
@AndyProwl But if it is std::vector<T>, then you would be comparing void set(std::vector<T> arg); to { void set(std::vector<T> const& arg); void set(std::vector<T>&& arg); }.
 
user3010322
Sink.... what?
 
@LucDanton he's not saying you should have two overloads by default
just a std::vector<T> const&
 
(I tend to favour void foo(Arg arg); over void foo(Arg const& arg); alone but that’s more of an opinion.)
@AndyProwl Then he’s hopelessly wrong.
 
12:54 PM
@LucDanton that's also my opinion
 
user3010322
@LucDanton By default Herb says do T const&, and then he says upgrade to T&& overload when performance justifies.
 
but he's saying the opposite
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit still feasting on that?
 
Xeo
Herb sucks.
 
his reason is that with foo(Arg) when you provide an Arg lvalue, the copy-construction of Arg will likely perform a dynamic allocation
 
12:56 PM
@Xeo what now? Ah he was just invoked
 
Taking std::vector<T> const& alone is very suspect. Either accept a range (doesn’t have to overly abstract, (iterator start, iterator stop) for using iterator = std::vector<T>::iterator; is plenty reasonable) or allow rvalue optimizations. Pointlessly copying whole vectors is very very silly.
 
on the other hand with foo(Arg const&), when you provide an rvalue you will end up doing a copy, but the pessimization of that copy will be small compared to the dynamic allocation that you would pay for with foo(Arg) when providing an lvalue
 
^dumb
 
I tend to agree
 
user3010322
That's what I just said. ;~;
 
user3010322
12:57 PM
Bah, whatever.
 
@LucDanton But I also tend to respect Howard Hinnant (this comes from him actually)
 
user3010322
> Again, my concern is that I don't think this is implementable. In particular, your proposed syntax requires that sink change its type, which is a compile time only construct, at run time. You would probably need to define some new feature in the core language to support this, and that's going to be the sticking point.
 
> Use tuple for multiple return values.
Meh.
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl ^
 
@ThePhD it's not my proposal
 
12:58 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Using structs these days?
 
user3010322
@AndyProwl I know, I'm just finding it and pointing out that someone else had my exact same concern.
 
oh, I see
 
I always use structs. Fusion adaptation for TMP
 
structs ftw
 
user3010322
E.g., std::sink isn't possible without changing the language.
 
user3010322
12:59 PM
Or without type-erasure (read: performance hit).
 
why
width is not fixed
 
user1804599
> If this example does not work it is probably because the Rotten Tomatoes API key usage of 10000 requests per day has been exhausted. Please try again tomorrow.
 
user1804599
Nice demo. Good job.
 
@ThePhD btw I'm half-convinced that changing the language in this respect wouldn't be a crime. Perfect-forwarding is a simple idea, it makes sense to have a simple tool for it.
 
1:01 PM
I guess asking about the "T const& by default" thing on SO would be closed as non-constructive
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit amazing. I didn't actually use the pager on that search result thing. Thanks
 
@sehe i'm good at what i do
 
Ell
I need to eat
 
first thing I tried ;p
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Oh yeah. No one I know does it better. But, I guess you have to love doing it enough :)
 
1:04 PM
How did you manage to create a 4 character answer?? I thought there is a mechanism to prevent it. — BЈовић 4 mins ago
FINALLY
 
Finally what?
 
how mega rich?
 
4 characters as an answer is not very much — 0d0a 36 mins ago
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I get asked that question annoyingly infrequently considering I mostly post such answers in order to get asked that question.
@AndyProwl super mega
 
damnit
 
1:06 PM
you should have told that guy something like "I could edit it into "Affirmative." if it would make you feel better."
 
You're one of those U+200B people.
@AlexM. Still shy of the required 30.
 
let's not spoil it
 
plenty evident to me
 
@sehe #letmeguess Chrome?
@AlexM. heh
 
1:07 PM
I'll wait
 
0d0a is totally butthurt. cute girlfriend, though.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes After a certain amount of thinking, I can undoubtedly say that the answer to this question is "Yes."
this has to be fine
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit sister
 
@sehe That subpixel rendering looks horrible.
The vertical sides of the rectangles are clearly blue.
(Kinda hard to not be clearly blue given that all pixels are blue, and they're surrounded by white)
 
1:09 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes It does indeed.
 
@rightfold Because paying for API access to something completely irrelevant is a better idea :v
 
Ell
@LightnessRacesinOrbit aunt
 
It's an assignemt and we're supposed to do it on our own — Berra 2 mins ago
Oh, well, good luck then! wanders offLightness Races in Orbit 10 secs ago
 
Ell
what are we playing?
 
@Ell aunt's girlfriend
 
Ell
1:12 PM
liberal, I like it
 
user1804599
@CatPlusPlus or use an API that doesn't have a rate limit.
 
Yes the fabled unicorn API
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit you suck
 
lol
 
1:25 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit lol, I've never seen such begging for a closevote.
 
wow superglue's really thin
I thought it would be thick, globby stuff
 
@Puppy may I ask for quick advice?
 
sure, but be quick, I gotta get back to work in like 3 minutes
 
right
 
1:27 PM
Puppy, a responsible employee
 
I was considering using the same syntax as concepts lite for virtual concepts, but ran into troubles. For instance:
return requires(T x, T y)
{
    { x + x } -> int;
};
 
protip: concepts, virtual concepts, same thing.
 
@Puppy it can be, but usually not.
 
if you can't use the same concept both virtually and statically, you suck.
 
This could be satisfied both with an operator + or a conversion operator to int on the interface. What should be on the interface?
 
1:29 PM
operator+.
that's what the requires-thing uses.
 
but then it's not the same as static concept, or is it?
 
if it happens to be implemented by converting the argument to int, that's irrelevant.
 
I'm just having troubles finding out what interface T would have for clients given arbitrarily complex expressions in the requires clause
but well, that's longer I guess, thanks for now
 
Webscale be hard
 
@AndyProwl complexity doesn't matter, you can consider each one in isolation
 
1:32 PM
Dunno if eventual consistency is good enough for payment info
 
@Puppy what I'm saying is: polymorphic clients written in terms of that concept (say C) could write x + x if C had a conversion operator to int on its interface
it doesn't need to have operator +
the requires clause is an ambiguous specification
 
it doesn't matter.
that's the concept's implementation's problem.
 
][]
+[-
 
I don't get it. The concept says: "hey, with me you can do stuff like x + x". Which would be consistent with "hey, I have a conversion operator to int"
 
oops
 
1:33 PM
and with several other things
for compile-time it makes sense, but for run-time I need an unambiguous specification of the interface
 
Concepts-Lite in C++14 for everyone to try. /cc @Rapptz
3
 
@MartinJames ;p
@sehe ahaha
@chmod711telkitty i.imgur.com/WjLdRch.jpg
 
Xeo
@LucDanton So much for "better error messages" :P
 
@LucDanton that diagnostic is fucking huge
 
1:39 PM
why do we need 9 lines per message?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes whoops
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit To make the good stuff visible in the unavoidable spam.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "crossing arms"?
 
Already too late to edit? I have fixes already :(
 
@AndyProwl What it's consistent with doesn't matter. Each implementation only offers one of those solutions (else error).
let me put it this way: You have operator+(T, T). Whether the compiler implements that by converting T to int, or calling T::operator+, is irrelevant for your interface.
 
1:41 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, well, ya know.
 
@LucDanton lol
 
all that matters is that you have operator+(T, T).
 
> Crawford's four children -- Katelynn, Colby, Craig and Courtney -- were supposed to be on the bus from Starke Elementary School, but they ended up staying after class to go to Bible study
The media will eat that
 
@Xeo Now with -ftemplate-backtrace-limit=0!
 
@Puppy I think I understand. So given an expression in the requires clause, what's going to be on the interface is determined by the top-level node of the expression tree?
 
1:42 PM
@sehe That's what the naked lady said.
 
Xeo
> [ skipping 2 instantiation contexts
 
@AndyProwl Right.
 
Xeo
saves 2 lines, produces 1, well done!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yup. I was looking for the back story on that. Does it really stop at "she got a blanket"?
 
Xeo
:)
 
1:43 PM
@Puppy Got it, thanks
 
what that interface delegates to in the implementation doesn't really matter; you can resolve it when you know both interface and implementation.
 
3 mins ago, by Luc Danton
Already too late to edit? I have fixes already :(
The whole hog.
 
> She was driving his big rig.
Commenter FTW
 
@LucDanton Isn't zero for infinite?
 
Yeah!
 
1:45 PM
> Doctors say that the female passenger of the truck should be back on her knees in no time at all.
 
Clang no worky :( I have to typename = Constraints I think?
 
inttable :) nice
 
Yup. ASCII art doesn’t work though lol.
 
@sehe Boom.
 
@Xeo Just in case: you’re supposed to stop looking after the first error. And for once, -Wfatal-errors is helpful!
 
Xeo
1:53 PM
@LucDanton Doesn't change the extreme backtrace :/
 
Ell
haha indian women :L
 
lol
 
In terms of depth I think it’s as minimalist as it gets :v If you walk it down (well, up), you get the whole story. ‘Concept A doesn’t check because nested requirement A1 isn’t fulfilled because concept B doesn’t check because…’ The whole enterprise is noisy as hell though :/
 
Ell
is @BartekBanachewicz here?
 
1:58 PM
He quit.
 
Now I’m wondering if I should have diagnose_[all_]requirements and expr/nested/etc. all match up in length to relieve the eyes.
 
@Cat got a reply from JB. Gotta write to a separate team/
Later today, maybe.
Actually, not today.
There's drinks with McNellis and the gang.
 
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh yeah I forgot :S
 
cripes good thing this is linked anywhere jetbrains.com/devnet/sponsorship/usergroups
Also 'meeting frequency' yeah I doubt it
 
EVERYDAY
Oh.
> JetBrains can support your user group by providing licenses of our products to raffle out at your meetings.
Nopes.
 
2:08 PM
We'll have to switch to something else then rip
 
That issue tracker is unusable if we can only have 10 people, and we'll run out of build configs in few months anyway
 
Raffle out licenses at Unconferences, yay :(
Though I guess that with CLion coming up, I should bring this up with Sebastian of the Berlin UG today.
 
@Xeo Heh I really can’t seem to make it look any better (or less worse) :(
 
Also it only applies to products with personal licenses not groupware
So everything BUT YT and TC :lol:
 
Maybe HBase would be a good fit for this project hm
Don't do this cv tag shit here
Can I live with eventual consistency wrt user authentication? Or premium account status???
Maybe I should have two clusters
 
> Being a powerful sorceress (her sister was Circe) and knowing that her husband was cheating on her, she made a charm such that if he slept with anyone save her, he would ejaculate serpents, scorpions, and millipedes.
 
dont kink shame
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes He's got quite the wide urethra.
 
user3010322
@R.MartinhoFernandes .... Ow?
 
user3010322
2:21 PM
I mean, I hope it's like, becomes-those-things when it exits the penis.
 
user3010322
Otherwise, all of that in your testicles and your prostate... x.o
 
It's a once trick pony
 
Pasiphaë, mother of the Minotaur (guess how that happened), daughter of Europa and Zeus-in-the-shape-of-a-bull.
The kink runs in the family.
Her sister Circe had this fetish about transforming men into swine.
 
Eww.. Sorcery Transmitted Disease.
 
Actually, don't guess how the Minotaur happened.
She ordered Daedalus to build her a hollow wooden cow so she could mate with a bull.
You would never have guessed that.
 
user3010322
2:30 PM
... Did you stumble onto the Greek Mythology section of your bookstore? :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes "millipedes" doesn't sound that threatening though
she was probably satisfied with serpents and scorpions and added millipedes just because
 
Ell
milliderpes
 
Is the term 'pedophile' relatively new? I mean in the old day when the life expectancy was like 30, a great percentage of population get married at like ... 15, some start humping at like ... 13/14?
if you died at like 30 and you popped out like 7-8 kids, you must have started pretty young ...
 
user3010322
It probably existed but applied to a younger age.
 
2:46 PM
WTF.
If I read one picture + the next header in one async_read operation, everything works fine. If I read the next header in a separate operation, the image is shifted.
@AndyProwl Wanna try it?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No. But not because I feel I'd be in danger
 
Danger zone
 
millipedophiles would be worse
wait, no, I wouldn't be in danger anyway
 
user3010322
What if one millipede didn't want to leave.
 
user3010322
What if it found your penis to be cozy enough.
 
2:52 PM
hmm
how do you specify a function taking nothing and returning nothing?
 
user3010322
unit func (unit);
 
user3010322
In C++ land.
 
er, I mean, in C#'s Action/Func things
 
user3010322
Action
 
user3010322
Func doesn't have an equivalent
 
user3010322
2:53 PM
Since it always expects a return type.
 
@ThePhD I'd piss him out
 
user3010322
@Puppy Unlike C++, you can have Action and Action<T> exist in the same namespace.
 
user3010322
So Action is just the no-parameter, void-returning version.
 
user3010322
I still don't know what to do about my Vector3<> problem
 
user3010322
Because I really hate the <>
 
user3010322
2:55 PM
Is there a proposal to drop the unnecessary <> ?
 
user3010322
Is it even grammatically necessary to have the <> ?
 
@ThePhD typedef.
 
lol you're asking if things are necessary in a language that has disambiguation keywords on every corner
 
user3010322
@Abyx typedef Vector3<float> Vector3 is unfortunately illegal. :(
 
user3010322
I could do something like make the real class name vec3<> or something dumb like that
 
2:57 PM
@ThePhD typedef Vector3<float> Vector3f
 
^ that's what Eigen does
 
user3010322
Eww. ;~;
 
it does it right then.
 
user3010322
I dun wanna do Vector3f hnnnnnnnnnggggggggghhhh
 
user3010322
Goddamnit. :c
 

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