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10:00 AM
the data members, otherwise he didn't need fusion
@kbok yes that's possible, but likely not what he's doing
 
ranges not targetted for C++14 :(
 
it's odd how some people haven't figured out how to copy+paste things, what's up with that really?
 
@DeadMG Sigh.
 
SG9 head says too many competing visions and no clear idea of what they want
 
@DeadMG ughwhgfhwhtwhfasa
 
10:02 AM
@refp Copy/paste is already advanced magic for the average noob.
 
@DeadMG wait. If the army targets something, it means they're taking it out, right?
:)
 
@DeadMG cough I never said that cough
 
Xeo
lol
 
user142019
I want move instead of copy paste.
 
@sehe to dinner?
 
user142019
10:03 AM
Cut/paste.
 
feels bad for being right
 
@Zoidberg emacs probably supports move/paste already.
 
@FredOverflow It's impossible to ruin the context on a context-ruining post
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have no doubt in my mind that you've said that already, though I think I've said it a few times myself as well
 
user142019
Emacs supports everything.
 
10:04 AM
That's why it's broke.
 
@FredOverflow it must surely suck to be part of the average noob crew
 
@sehe Emacs lost all of its money? The poor thing!
 
emacs need to support everything because it's a shitty editor
 
@FredOverflow (hint, that's what I said)
 
Riiiiiiiiiiiight.
 
10:05 AM
@sehe You probably meant broken, though.
 
"I can't figure out how to make this editor good.. let's just make a miniture OS out of it and let everyone else fix this problem for me", the "do one thing and do it good" philosophy of *nix is terrible broken
 
@FredOverflow No. That was only the allusion. I said what you read. Think about it
 
@sehe That's too philosophical for me. Let's talk about modules instead. I want them.
 
@refp terrible broken [sic]
 
10:07 AM
@sehe that was actually intended.. though I have no idea what you mean by [sic]
 
@FredOverflow (the nerd joke was "Emacs supports everything." -> it spends all its money on charities/other goals)
 
EWG and LEWG by far the most popular subgroups
 
@sehe Now I feel stupid :( Well, at least you spelled "its" wrong, so get to live another day :)
 
@FredOverflow Fuck 'em. The only thing I want for C++ right now is whatever makes ogonek easier. (hint: ranges)
 
@sehe are you referring to the latin sic? (google is my friend)
 
10:08 AM
@refp sic
@FredOverflow On the bright side, I want modules too!
 
I've never imagined C++14 being that innovative. Not surprised about the ranges.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ogonek sounds like a prehistoric cyclop (like there are posthistoric ones).
 
@LucDanton I was optimistic :(
 
@LucDanton What "mini innovations" does C++14 offer? It's more than just a bugfix release like C++03, right?
 
there's a huge quantity of papers here for submission
 
10:09 AM
@refp it's a library
 
I'm a segfault waiting to happen.
 
saying twice as many as previous meeting
 
@FredOverflow Ya. E.g. if everything goes according to plan, you can expect to see automatic return type deduction for everything.
 
Awesome!
 
@LucDanton what about classes' templates deduction?
 
10:10 AM
@BartekBanachewicz me knowz, me knowz
@FredOverflow no advertising!
 
I'd also like to see the reference overhauls, like auto&& 'fixed' for prvalues and rvalue ref member access of an rvalue being categorised as an rvalue.
 
@BartekBanachewicz mmm?
 
@LucDanton Explain the fix.
 
@sehe auto p = std::pair<> (5, true);
 
auto&& i = 0; being deduced as int instead of the current int&&.
 
10:12 AM
@LucDanton Are there papers/issues for those?
 
@BartekBanachewicz ah
 
@LucDanton Oh. But that wouldn't make any sense. If you write &&, you want a reference, right?
 
@BartekBanachewicz auto p = make_pair(5, true);?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes meh. I know the philosophy of "add to the library, not to the language", but still
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, but it's a tedium to make a make_foo() factory for each and any class. Also, it doesn't work for uniform initialization, I suppose
 
10:13 AM
I forget if aggregate/uniform initialization fixes are slated for C++14 or not.
 
@BartekBanachewicz My concern here is more about how your proposal interacts with... all the crap.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes std::pair<auto> !
or, even better
 
You cannot just drop nice template related sugar without tons of considerations.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes std::tuple<auto...> t (1, true, "lol"); would be kewl anyway. Also, it's not really my proposal
 
10:14 AM
@DeadMG It might be buried in one of the automatic return type deduction and/or lambda papers, taking me some time to find it.
 
var x = (1, true, "lol");   // C++14 will remove the comma operator in favor of built-in tuple syntax
3
 
@FredOverflow are you trolling about nonexisting features again?
 
@BartekBanachewicz And std::tuple<auto&...> and std::tuple<auto&&...> too?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes sure, why not?
 
@BartekBanachewicz A man can dream.
 
10:16 AM
you can make tuple<int&> t(some_int); , no?
 
Who uses the comma operator anyway?
 
But seriously, isn't the comma operator one of the stupidest operators ever?
 
@BartekBanachewicz std::tie.
 
ATTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK
 
@DeadMG that's what I was thinking. So std::tuple<auto&...> would at least have a chance to make sense
 
10:17 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Nice. Now tell me what is the type of, say, std::tuple<auto...>(1, std::ref(x), true);, given a double x;.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes std::tuple<int, double&, bool>?
 
Great! More exceptions!
 
what?
I am missing something, right?
 
std::ref(x) is std::reference_wrapper<double>, not double&.
 
10:19 AM
what's wrong with std::tuple<int, std::reference_wrapper<double>, bool>
 
std::reference_wrapper<double> does not behave as double&.
 
that's kind of the point
 
(For clarity, the type of std::make_tuple(1, std::ref(x), true) is std::tuple<int, double&, bool>)
@kbok No, it isn't.
 
oh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes force values on auto... then. or not. Uh, dunno, okey, whatever.
 
10:23 AM
maybe it's just a bad idea :)
 
@BartekBanachewicz So your new feature gives less power than what we have?
 
sitting in LEWG here
 
yeah, well, I'm not terribly attached to it
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes but that case is also an exception, right?
 
@bamboon It's the primary use case of std::reference_wrapper.
A tool for manual type deduction of references.
 
10:26 AM
Mar 14 at 3:24, by Luc Danton
@Xeo Great paper. Changing auto&& i = prvalue; would be for the best, I would think.
@DeadMG Ya know it might have been in a draft of Xeo's >.>
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't get that, also how relates that to reference_wrapper being an exception in make_tuple? I think/thought the primary use case of reference_wrapper is to pass references to bind/thread/async etc.
 
@FredOverflow Sure, but there's little point in holding a reference to a prvalue whose lifetime has been extended, as opposed to having a variable with that value :)
 
@bamboon It's the same use-case.
 
@bamboon Which is the same thing.
 
10:29 AM
@kbok const std::string&? oh wait no
 
@kbok ahhahahahahahaha
 
Apr 8 at 9:47, by Luc Danton
So I take it overloading bool, std::string and string literals all at once is a big mess.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what's so funny? :/
@LucDanton what the hell is going on
 
@LucDanton Couldn't that just be a compiler optimization instead of a language rule?
 
Apr 8 at 8:42, by Luc Danton
Fucking bool overload accepting everything in the world.
 
10:30 AM
hello guys.. i working on factorial problem on spoj...
but i dont know why it shows time limit exceeded always ??
 
I think it's funny because it's not the first time people have this issue
 
Have so many more.
 
I think I know why my first SFINAE failed
 
Could we solve things with our own bool type?
 
Substitution as Bool Is An Error You Fucking Fuck
 
10:30 AM
anyone who has worked on strategy pattern
 
yesterday, by Etienne de Martel
In sense, it's like you have to earn your "right to ask" here by becoming part of this little community. If you don't have time for that, or don't care for that, then go on SO instead.
 
please give a hint to get rid of that error
 
@CodeJack make your program faster, duh
 
@FredOverflow How do you feel about syntax like []() -> decltype(auto) { return foo(bar, baz); };?
That's an actual proposal.
 
10:31 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes arghthsthaghasfhadf
 
@LucDanton decltype(auto)? LOL
 
@BartekBanachewicz , but how ?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's not our class, it's a boost::variant
 
@BartekBanachewicz Should be const, btw.
 
@kbok chill, we can use intermediate type
 
10:31 AM
actually the situaution is that i have while within while
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes would firing our own bool type resolve the issue?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes const arghthsthaghasfhadf&
 
hence , iused a new function for the innner while
 
If, on the other hand, we tweak auto a bit then we could (re)use []() -> auto&& { return foo(bar, baz); };. And auto&& here would have the same exact meaning as when doing auto&& r = foo(bar, baz);.
 
but that dint work
 
10:32 AM
@CodeJack dude, that's the purpose of the exercise, to make the factorial that works for numbers bigger than, say, 10
 
@kbok What do you mean? The function print is yours, no?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes void set_global(std::string const &name, variant value) {
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes In this case yes, but the issue we have is with boost::variant<std::string, bool>
 
I can't subclass Boost.Variant because of the operators
 
@kbok To be fair the answer solves the problem exactly as asked... change your question?
Why do you even ask questions if the answer is not relevant?
 
10:34 AM
@kbok I'll just overload set_global
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Nah, it was the return-type deduction proposal
 
@LucDanton it is relevant
 
@LucDanton The answer is relevant indeed, and I'm also changing the question. Sorry about that :)
 
@Xeo Oh. But they only suggest that auto&& have a different meaning as a return type specifier then, it wouldn't affect auto&& i = 0;.
 
Xeo
Hm, maybe
But I personally don't like the auto&& -> T transformation
 
10:35 AM
I know my variant doesn't have issues storing bool and std::string, and forwards it correctly. I don't think Boost.Variant differs much in that respect.
 
Xeo
So, @DeadMG, did you get a schedule yet?
 
@LucDanton is it available somewhere?
 
@Xeo It's safer and is more truthful to what happens! 'Suspending' a prvalue is pretty much reified RVO :|
 
[Testing completed. All tests passed (16 assertions in 8 test cases)] !!!
 
Xeo
@LucDanton Wouldn't it break tons of code, though?
 
10:37 AM
Ya. Especially as a function parameter.
 
@Xeo Sitting in LEWG now.
 
Xeo
And really, what's so wrong with decltype(auto)? It's currently ill-formed and brings a solution. Fuck if it doesn't make sense syntactically.
 
Forwarding code poses no requirement whatsoever on its parameters, not even constructability.
 
@Xeo in C++17 you might regret that
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz ?
 
10:38 AM
@BartekBanachewicz Amateur.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes hm? you meen the number?
 
btw @xeo what was your doc number again?
 
Xeo
3617
 
> Fuck if it doesn't make sense syntactically.
 
yeah, it's not currently assigned to any group to consider
 
Xeo
10:39 AM
I should've written "conceptually", since it's kinda circular
 
one of my papers, n3574, has also disappeared
 
@Xeo 'Sesquipedalian' describes the enmity I have towards it.
 
Xeo
Meh
 
but since I'm sitting across from the LEWG chair
 
Xeo
Can't fix auto now, really.
@DeadMG Aw
 
10:40 AM
@Xeo Sure. Let's pick decltype(auto) as the default behaviour for return type deduction though!
 
2 days ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
[Testing completed. 2 of 33 test cases failed (25264 of 236081 assertions failed)]
My tests are bigger than yours.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Your tests are bigger, but they also fail ;)
 
@NikiC That was actually clang's fault for having broken SFINAE.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They seem too big for me. I was told at work that over 30 at one case is too much.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know, it's always the compiler's fault :P
 
10:42 AM
@NikiC actually it is this time, duh
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I probably don't understand something here. In the bind/etc case we rely on reference_wrapper being implicitly convertible to the wrapped type and such we can pass it to the to be invoked function, in the make_tuple case there is a template specialization somewhere(I assume) for reference_wrapper which instead of creating a tuple with reference_wrapper type creates a tuple with the wrapped type, no? /cc @LucDanton
 
Xeo
@LucDanton So auto foo() { ... } would be conceptually decltype(auto) foo(){ ... }?
 
Shit. Possibly only for lambdas.
 
Xeo
@bamboon You don't rely on convertability anywhere.
std::reference_wrappers are unwrapped explicitly by the implementation
 
@Xeo I was going to answer 'No'.
@bamboon No.
 
10:43 AM
@Xeo ah ok, interesting
 
Xeo
@LucDanton And there it's just inconsistent then :(
 
@Xeo Is it? If you add -> auto, then it's the same.
Why does the default have to be the sucky option?
 
Xeo
Ah, that way
But yeah, code breakage etc
If you transform a current prvalue evaluation to, say, an lvalue, unpleasant things may happen
 
@Xeo what's the reason for this?
 
@Xeo But does it? 'Lambdas' are very much isolated.
OTOH, a lambda in a header is pretty much all it takes.
 
10:45 AM
@BartekBanachewicz I don't see what's special about the number 30. I regularly break some of those tests whenever I touch that part of the code, so I think they have the right size.
 
Xeo
If we introduce decltype(auto) behaviour for lambdas now, things that relied on deduction to create a prvalue may get an lvalue or xvalue now
 
Lvalue-to-rvalue conversion is free. What's to break?
Even Python has concise lambdas, and they suck :| This is worth breaking tons of stuff.
 
Xeo
[&]{ return gimme_a_shortlived_xvalue(); } did the move in the return, and auto&& v = the_lambda(); would extend the life-time of the resulting prvalue. Not so much if the lambda now evaluated to an xvalue itself.
 
decltype(auto) ensures the call is a prvalue. You lose.
 
I present tomorrow morning
 
Xeo
10:49 AM
But you could also say that life-time extension rules suck, but eh.
 
@DeadMG Which ones?
 
both
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes the point is how accurate the information is
 
also trying to hunt down n3574
oh, uh, n3575 and n3572
 
@BartekBanachewicz What do you mean by accurate? Each one of those tests tests one corner case.
 
10:50 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes with ~10k assertions?
 
Xeo
@LucDanton decltype(gimme_a_shortlived_xvalue()) is T&&, so... ?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, I mean each assertion is a corner case.
 
@Xeo :( Break everything!
That code sucks!
 
Xeo
haha
That's what I meant the whole time, though. Can't fix defaults.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's ok. Can't you just structure them more? IOW divide into more logical cases?
 
10:51 AM
That makes lambda expressions a pretty expensive failure. They're more of an object notation.
 
Xeo
Inb4 [+]{ ... } for a "better" lambda
abusing capture-list for lambda versioning
 
ah, n3575 probably wednesday
 
Xeo
N3617 ;_;
 
user1357851
@R.MartinhoFernandes I so agree :) ... good thing is that he stalks a lot of the regulars here equally.
 
@BartekBanachewicz No. It's pretty much something like: ~180k different normalization inputs, ~50k different segmentation inputs, and then a ~30 test cases with a moderate number of assertions each.
 
10:53 AM
string_view, any, optional discussed this afternoon
 
Xeo
string_view should be coming along nicely, the proposal looks good
 
I'm gonna head to Evolution at some point and ask them about N3574 and N3617
 
Xeo
bound_functions is considered EWG? Because of the need for state?
 
It involves magic anyway.
 
@Xeo yea, that one is fail one. Points IV and V have missing ## to indicate headers
 
10:57 AM
It's truly a language feature disguised as library feature.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes initializer_list~
@BartekBanachewicz I hacked together the first revision in such a hurry....
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes inb4 PROT_EXEC library magicks.
 
presenting N3573 Tuesday afternoon
 
// [(2, "Andrei"), (4, "Bjarne"), (1, "Herb"), (3, "Scott"), (0, "Stephan")]
 
user142019
I fucked up my R test. xDDDDDDDDDD
 
10:58 AM
lol
 
@LucDanton My point is that if you cannot implement it in the language, it's pretty much the same as a language feature; it just reuses existing syntax.
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes s/language/library/?
 
'inb4' means I expect some hacker to come and show us 'how it's done'. Not that I think it should be done!
 
@Xeo I wrote what I wanted to say.
 
Xeo
So, Luc, further thoughts on []((char*))? :D
 
11:00 AM
It is lol and you should feel lol.
 
Xeo
Now with fancy html-from-markdown
 
Yay, back from lunch. Any interesting news from the committee meeting?
 
@Xeo I rendered first revision on GH
 
Xeo
MarkdownPad is pretty nice, although it sucks that it only considers markdown from the current view.
 
11:02 AM
[]operator*=) <- weird hat
 
Xeo
lol
 
Also fuck you, bool overload
 
Xeo
Oh yeah, and that still has the old version where I forgot the black_hole_iterator{} to std::transform
 
WRT that, is bool considered broken? :/
 
Xeo
I always want to abuse std::transform as std::zipped_for_each, it seems
@BartekBanachewicz No, the fault doesn't lie with bool.
 
11:03 AM
I mean, what is the point of bool if I have to write another one myself.
 
Xeo
It lies with implicit conversions.
 
Sometimes I love GLSL's Spec "Implicit Conversions" Chapter
> There are no implicit conversions. [End of chapter]
 
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Does it consist of a big fat NO?
lol
 
@jalf Still scheduling stuff.
In Haskell there are no conversions whatsoever.
 
@Xeo actually, there are some, in constructors. You can write vec3(some_bool, some_float, some_int), because each constructor parameter is constructed using scalar constructor specific to vector type, which happens to have cast-like syntax (e.g. float f = float(true);)
 
Xeo
11:07 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Show? Or is that not considered a "conversion"?
 
@Xeo You mean a function call?
 
Xeo
No, I mean, doesn't show 1 convert Num to String?
 
Xeo
Damn you @LucDanton, now I can't unsee the smiley in [](*=)!!
 
@Xeo If it does, is is implicit?
 
Xeo
11:08 AM
Robot only said "conversion"
 
Well I think he's aware of toInteger, toIntegral, toFractional and countless others.
 
Xeo
You could say I was nitpicking
 
No.
 
@Xeo Just like Just 1 "converts" Num to Maybe. Or map (join (,)) [x,y,z] converts [a] to [(a,a)].
 
@LuchianGrigore mhm
 
user142019
11:18 AM
@LuchianGrigore jawohl.
 
he mentions remove_if, so it's legit
 
Well recording is just one use, isn't it? Augmented reality could still take off.
 
Does that affect people being creeped out?
FTR, there are already places that ban Google Glass for those same reasons.
 
Lots of phones can already record, but we don't assume they record everything as soon as they are pulled out no?
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think the answer is 'no'.
 
@LucDanton But phones are not stealthy.
 
... those glasses are?
 
Xeo
11:35 AM
You don't know whether they record or not
For phones, it gets suspicious pretty fast if you follow someone with the cam
 
11:46 AM
> German scientists say they are close to solving the mystery why it is nearly impossible to open a packet of crisps without munching your way through the whole bag.
What
 
user1357851
I wish I was a scientist who has to solve the mystery why lobsters are so delicious
 
Hello, there's a great question, which no one seems to answer: stackoverflow.com/questions/16011945 Would someone please take a look at it? Thanks.
 
I'll just leave that here. std::operator<<(std::cout, "foo"); (Core C++ obviously)
 
user142019
Lol.
 
user142019
Some asshole used the emergency break in this train.
 
11:59 AM
huh
 
user142019
Whoops. :c
 
turns out that someone already proposed heterogenous lookups for ordered containers.
so if you have a set<unique_ptr<T>>, there is already a proposal to make s.find(T*)
 
user142019
CLOSED AS DUPE
DOWNVOTED INTO OBLIVION
 
Oh, I thought someone had referred you to that. D. Abrahams is in on it, isn't he?
Either that or his name appear on an earlier proposal about projections.
 
> Ich liebe die tomate musik aus mexiko ich lerne deutsch mit dem tomte
 
Xeo
12:04 PM
wat
 
@LucDanton Dunno, it doesn't mention him.
 
@Xeo I suppose that "tomate" is a misspelling of "Tomte", but it ended up hilarious.
 
Xeo
aye
 
but between N3465 and N3586, that's basically all of the stuff I later realized that I should have put in N3575.
 
12:06 PM
and the LWG has listed them to be considered sequentially on Tuesday afternoon
 
Xeo
@DeadMG What a coincidence that it lies basically in the middle!
 
heh
 
user142019
 
well, I'm obviously not the only one who had a similar idea, so hopefully the authors and backers of the other papers will back my paper too
I intend to spend a smidge of time after lunch hunting down n3574 and n3617
the thing about n3617 as since it wasn't in the mailing it'll make my life a little harder to say wtf I'm on about
the LEWG chair told me to look into the core evolution group and ask them
yours definitely fits there, not so sure about n3754
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Eh, it was in the mailing
 
12:10 PM
oh, really?
I thought you said it was the lates
 
Xeo
Yea
No, I still made it
 
or was it "Late but not that late"
 
Xeo
It was close but not over the line
Same really with the revision I sent them yesterday :P
Clark also should want to speak with you
 
12:30 PM
who's that
and why
 
Xeo
@DeadMG The paper guy, Clark Nelson.
@DeadMG Because of the revision of my paper
 
orite
 
Xeo
> Assuming The Puppy is still going to be presenting your paper, I'll coordinate with him about how to handle your revision.
Was his reply yesterday evening
 
lol, "The Puppy"?
 
12:37 PM
want to talk to him about n3574 anyway
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I obviously censored his name :P
 
Oh, you redacted it?
 
anyone who can help with an OpenGL question?
 
Xeo
@iforce2d Stack Overflow can
 
user142019
12:54 PM
 
user142019
Amazonfail.
 
user142019
Used is more expensive than new. :v
 
Used prices are set by the owners.
 
user142019
They fail.
 
12:55 PM
Maybe it was used by Brad Pitt himself
 
user142019
lol
 
user142019
Oh, it's Euler's birthday. Let's all celebrate!
 

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