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6:01 PM
meh the Standard is very vague and open to interpretation in places
I guess they have to, to make sure that implementations can actually be made, right?
 
@TonyTheLion So it is. And yes, they do seem to have this strange idea that being able to implement it is important.
 
@JerryCoffin strange idea - lol
 
so I bought a super old Macintosh laptop about 2 weeks ago for a personal project
and I'm trying the developer tools
they're just as horrible as expected
 
So a mutex acts much like a fence would, but the only difference that with a fence, multiple threads could still execute the code simultaneously, whereas a mutex makes that code mutually exclusive, right? — Tony The Lion 8 mins ago
anybody know?
 
@TonyTheLion It seems quite foreign to some language designers, anyway.
 
6:04 PM
@zneak probably.
 
@JerryCoffin puppy?
 
@JerryCoffin That reminds me. Before, we were talking about ways to disambiguate some of the vexing parser issues of C++: our first was trying to get rid of the infinite look-back necessary to disambiguate C++ declaration statements.
 
well that depends on the fence, but most the most common kind will just make sure the CPU doesn't reorder memory accesses across it
 
@thecoshman Not really who I had in mind, no. I've seen nothing about Wide that seems particularly un-implementable (though I'll admit I haven't looked very closely recently).
 
@ThePhD you mean look-ahead?
 
6:05 PM
mutexes pretty much always imply a fence
 
@JerryCoffin nah me neither, but it's fun to mess with him :P
 
As of right now, I have decided that I'm making pointers int~, so that * no longer clashes with multiplication, and make references more explicit (ref int~, ref BigTootinStruct).
 
AHH!! pins and needles in the legs
 
so anyways, I'm using MacsBug on that old machine
 
@ThePhD wha?
 
6:06 PM
I kind of want to change the reference syntax,
 
there's no way to start a program in the debugger, you have to press cmd+power button to break into it
(or call _Debugger really early)
 
but I can't find an appropriate symbol that could work as a modifier.
 
and the debugger will often accidentally the whole thing
 
@zneak why are you doing this to yourself?
 
6:07 PM
because torturing oneself is a thing these days :P
 
lol
but yeah, that debugger
I just hit "go"
and I got this message:
MacsBug internal Step Over stack overflow. You're probably hosed.
 
@melak47 Periodically, the lounge discusses C++ and other languages. I pick up some things and in my head put together a nicer, less annoying version of the language or its features.
 
@TonyTheLion Well....sort of, but not really. A memory fence forces ordering. A mutex forces apparent atomicity. You can often get the same results from the two, but atomicity is usually simpler.
 
@ThePhD why int~
 
@melak47 Because it's not a two-way binary operator.
 
6:10 PM
@JerryCoffin hmmm, interesting.
 
Much like !.
Other candidates were int@
and int$
 
> Have you ever played one of those video games where you finally figure out you have to take the lantern, find the flint to create a fire, then use the fire to light the lantern so you can travel through the dark passage to find the key that fits the lock so you can travel on to level 2? Programming is like that.
5
 
But ~ is nice~~~
 
@ThePhD ah you trying to say that you are also writing a language?
 
@ThePhD ew and ew :p
 
6:10 PM
@JerryCoffin within a critical section I guess load/stores can be reordered, right?
 
@thecoshman Not really writing one. So far I'm just collecting ideas.
 
Good evening, Lounge.
 
I'm going to write a fuck language, all instructions and types will containt the word fuck:P
 
@TonyTheLion Generally, yes. The mutex assures that by the time some other thread sees them, they've all happened.
 
fuck_int fuck_this
 
6:11 PM
@StackedCrooked pff, that's almost easy, because the sequence of events makes sense :p
 
@TonyTheLion Replace the word fuck with the word chainsaw.
 
print the fuck "hello fucking world"
 
@JerryCoffin ah I see.
@DomagojPandža chainsaw_this, lol
 
The worst thing I could do is write and implement a language half-assedly, and generate all this legacy-cruft that I have to maintain for the sake of old, soggy programmers and businesses who can't be assed to upgrade.
 
Cat mit rasierten Arsch in einer dunklen Gasse angegriffen.
 
6:12 PM
@JerryCoffin so with a fence only, multiple threads could still execute that code?
 
@DomagojPandža wat
 
You don't want to know.
 
@ThePhD Don't worry, nobody will use it
 
so if you want no reordering and mutual exclusion you gotta use fence and mutex?
 
Xeo
@DomagojPandža *rasiertem, if anything
 
6:13 PM
@CatPlusPlus Except me.
Even if I use it for myself, that's really all I'd want.
 
Xeo
Also, wtf, that sentence makes no sense
 
@TonyTheLion Right -- it's (mostly) non-blocking, but ensures that what they're memory reads are coordinated with your memory writes (or vice versa).
 
In the end, I'd probably compile down to C++ source code and just compile that.
 
@JerryCoffin makes sense, so everything after the fence will be visible also to all other threads as an atomic read/write?
 
Hello everybody
 
6:14 PM
One of the biggest features I have in my head is allowing compile-time Codegen.
 
user142019
Ohai.
 
So, according to my task list, I'm more than halfway done for ogonek 1.0.0. Seems like a good time to tag 0.5.0.
 
Is there anyone who works with bitmap files here ?
 
yes, what's the question?
 
@Xeo Google Translate wins.
 
6:15 PM
I'm reading a bitmap file from input then try to rotate the image and write it to a new file
 
I think I've mixed up atomicity with memory barriers vs mutexes
 
[no-helpdesk]
 
@SKh I'm glad you're doing this. Hope you have fun :)
 
@TonyTheLion AHAHAH  ≤3
 
tnx, but my image dimension isn't multiple of 4
so I have problem by this part
can you help me ?
 
6:17 PM
@SKh I saw a question about that on Stack Overflow, why you asking here?
@SKh add padding to make it multiple of 4, or ignore last x bytes
 
@SKh are you rotating by multiples of 90°, or are you rotating by an arbitrary amount?
 
@melak47 rotating 90 degree
 
The only way to ensure being a multiple of 4 is either force the artist to be a multiple of 4 or add a padding.
 
0
A: What should we do with a Bitmap file when it's rowsize isn't multiple of 4?

user1648011When you write an image to a bmp file, you're supposed to pad each scan line so that its size in bytes is a multiple of 4. Just add extra 0 bytes at the end of each row.

this is the answer...
 
@TonyTheLion it's my question
of course
 
6:19 PM
and assigning to a 2D array can be found through Google
 
@TonyTheLion A fence doesn't really ensure atomicity, but it does guarantee ordering. Typically you use it to make things sort of act atomic though -- for example, you frequently need to write some data, then write something to signal that the data is available. With a mutex, those appear atomic to other threads. With a fence, you ensure that the "data available" flag is visible to them only after the data has actually been written.
 
@JerryCoffin aha, I see.
 
I hope I can find it.
 
@sehe is playing with dogs
 
@sehe and @DeadMG were meant to be together. <3
 
6:22 PM
Until sehe eats DeadMG.
 
@DomagojPandža Then they're really together (at least until DeadMG is excreted).
 
@CatPlusPlus Next time, it wouldn't kill you to add some clever commentary to your playthrough stream. :P
 
I know
The problem is a) being clever b) using the fucking mic
 
Good evening!
 
Evening bad.
 
6:24 PM
Anyway I thought Fallout: NV might make a good collaborative play game :v:
 
Fallout NV would be awesome!
 
@DomagojPandža What are you talking about?
 
@StackedCrooked Cat has a twitch account where he streams the games he plays. Last time it was Overlord 2
 
Also I got XSplit and I think I got bitrate figured out now
"Streams" is strong word when I tried it exactly once
 
@CatPlusPlus "...he streamed a game he played"?
 
6:27 PM
@JerryCoffin Yes, there's some lag, of course.
Cicada commented it was "a fucking slideshow", for me it worked quite good with a 5 second lag.
 
It was dropping frames
Too high bitrate
Of course FFsplit being free software doesn't tell you what you should use as a bitrate
I started with 3000 then went down to 2000 I think, but it should be about 1000
 
Ell
Ahh I downloaded an open source alternative to xplit which worked pretty well
 
Yeah it's FFsplit
I got XSplit now and tested the settings and it gave green light so it should be fine
Also I made myself a new offline banner
 
Wow
 
I am so good with Paint.NET
 
6:31 PM
It's password protected?
Cat why u no lav me? ;~;
 
Well, you can either calculate it based on the output resolution, desired framerate, the chosen compression and encoding or just fine tune it on the go.
 
Any privacy option I could find I turned on
Pw is very_good_at_games
 
@CatPlusPlus Nice paint skillz0rz.
 
banner 2stronk
 
Ell
Y u link and not give password!
 
6:33 PM
Y u no reading comprehension
By the way
Anyone knows how to change non-Aero theme that's used when Aero shuts down?
 
In Windows 7?
 
Because now it uses the default blue and my eyes are bleeding
 
The Windows Classic stuff?
 
Lol, fuck if I know.
Good luck with that shit.
 
6:34 PM
@CatPlusPlus If it forces you in it, sometimes it is really stubborn to get out of it.
 
fuck you clang
 
@DomagojPandža Aero shutting down is intended, I just want dark colours
 
There's really no option to do it besides trying to in and out of Aero. And then the OS decides whether your GPU is worth of its glory.
@CatPlusPlus Oh, isn't it right there?
 
Broadcasting software turns Aero off because Aero caps the capture at 22FPS or something like that
Though maybe capturing with Dxtory would bypass that I don't know I'm not good with computers
@DomagojPandža Well in CP I can change the normal theme but not the fallback one I think
Yeah if I change colours it changes the theme for normal use
Fucking Windows
 
Only 8 more files to .Decl.h and .inl ...
And these warnings will be gone...
FORREEEVEER
Oh shit I still have not committed. :c
 
6:39 PM
You're bad at version control
 
I'm nooot. q_q
 
@CatPlusPlus what are you broadcasting :3
 
@DomagojPandža Heey, quick question. When you're working with Render Targets, and you're done rendering geometry into them, do you need to specifically tell that render target to "resolve" ?
 
Games maybe I don't know
 
what are you using? (software, website stream thing, ?)
 
6:43 PM
@ThePhD No.
 
@DeadMG Hm. Well, okay. :O
 
@melak47 I tried FFsplit yesterday I'm probably going to be trying out XSplit/Dxtory combination today
 
Have you tried OBS?
 
@CatPlusPlus I've used XSplit, I had no trouble broadcasting with aero on with it
 
6:49 PM
Bleh XSplit doesn't want to work with passworded channels for some inexplicable reason
 
what site/service are you broadcasting to?
 
twitch.tv
 
Works with stream key cool
No frames dropped while broadcasting an image!
 
@ThePhD Sorry, I was ironing my damn shirt for tonight. As DeadMG illustriously said, no. Sometimes, that was a thing, today manual resolving is only used when you need an intermediate step (ms antialiasing is one example). The system does the final "resolve" automagically, the point with MRTs is that you concentrate on getting your g-buffer data in there.
 
Hm.
 
6:52 PM
Also, there are some more advanced uses and the need to persist crap beyond the frame you're doing, but that's expensive and not worry yourself with that right now.
 
q_q
You always tickle me gently with this advanced stuff.
Forward+ Rendering, tiled BRDF Deferred Shading...
I like my RenderUserPrimitives function a lot.
It is very nice.
 
manual resolves are there to help the programmer to do less work than it is required. For example, MSAA requires a fat depth buffer and does unnecessary work when you're processing a part of the pipeline which has absolutely no benefit from subsample accuracy.
Mostly people usually just ignore them completely and do the redundant work anyways because... Well, buttfuck it. :D
I'm so going to be bored out of my mind tonight.
 
I'm bored out of your mind already
 
Ell
Why? where are you going?
 
Damn parties.
 
6:57 PM
Don't go to boring parties?
 
just don't go
@CatPlusPlus That implies that there is such a thing as non-boring parties.
 
Er yes there is
 
"You're such a prick, you never come. You've forgotten your friends."
Pretty much sums it up, ahahah xD
And also, I like to drink Pepsi and watch people laugh and crap while I think who's going to die first.
Not by my hand, mind you, just a statistical analysis of their habits, occupational hazards and life expectancy.
 
@DomagojPandža Why not by your hand?
 
look at mah fluffy clouds :3
 
7:02 PM
The radio I'm listening to has the most retarded ads I've ever heard
 
Flash FM?
Fever?
 
Fallout has set quality to Ultra High :smug:
 
let's see your stream :p
 
@CatPlusPlus Achievement unlocked, Gamebryo Revisited from 2006. deems your computer powerful. :$
 
@melak47 :O A rendering?
 
7:04 PM
@ThePhD offline, though
 
@CatPlusPlus The only non-boring parties include video games, laughs, sarcastic commentary and a mix of alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages.
@melak47 Blah, ray-tracing. :c
 
@ThePhD but you like raytracing! especially of spheres! :p
 
If you're generous, maybe cake.
@melak47 q_q spheres
Y u remind me
 
Looks like it's working
 
Invite us! <33
 
7:06 PM
second
 
I'm not playing just ye
 
Awww
I saw the stream for a second
 
I want some mods
 
Mostly planets in games resolve down to a couple of layers of semi-transparent spheres with textures. Some of the more ambitious endeavours also do a gradient map to lousily fake Sun-atmosphere-ground-you Rayleigh scattering.
 
and a big ugly "DXTORY.COM"
 
7:06 PM
@ThePhD ...or else strippers. :-)
 
@ThePhD :freetrials:
 
@JerryCoffin I've never been to a party with strippers.
 
Can't blame them though, if a player never lands, why go through the trouble?
 
I just don't know what the point of a stripper is, really.
 
@ThePhD So you're certainly not in a position to say they'd be boring, now are you?
 
7:07 PM
They slowly get naked, tease you, and then they leave.
You've gained nothing, but lost a lot of money.
 
Yup that's the point
 
@ThePhD Mostly to tease the guy who's going to get married within the next couple of days (the only parties I've seen with strippers were bachelor parties).
 
@DomagojPandža that's what this is, too. layers (and layers and layers..) of textures :D
 
@JerryCoffin If someone invited strippers to my party I'd tell them to piss off (after paying them of course).
It might enable them to like, I dunno. Go hang out somewhere rather than be doing weird dances in my place.
I'd feel incredibly awkward if someone gave me a stripper party.
 
@ThePhD In most cases, the groom-to-be is gotten drunk enough beforehand that he's rarely in much condition to do anything nearly that decisive.
 
7:10 PM
Even if I was drunk, I'd probably think it was a trap.
"WHO HIRED YOU?! MY BRIDE?!"
"... This... ... THIS IS A TEST!"
"I ACCEPT YOUR CHALLENGE!" Fighting Pose.
I'd probably be a weird drunk guy. ._.
 
@ThePhD Groom attempts fighting pose, then falls on face. "Friends" drag him over and sit him on chair, stripper proceeds to do her thing.
 
So, SimCity works well. So you can start buying it now.
 
@EtiennedeMartel does it have micro transactions yet?
 
@EtiennedeMartel My heart is already too broken =[
 
@melak47 No. And again, I don't know if it'll have eventually.
@ThePhD That's almost lame, you know.
Non boring parties imply a sufficient level of human interaction. Ideally in person. Alcohol simply makes that easier.
 
7:18 PM
Can anyone give a reference for this:
1
Q: C++11 type of (signed + unsigned)?

user1131467#include <iostream> #include <typeinfo> using namespace std; int main() { int s = 2; unsigned int u = 3; auto k = s + u; if (typeid(k) == typeid(s)) cout << "signed" << endl; else if (typeid(k) == typeid(u)) cout << "unsigned" ...

nvm... hehe
 
I might even consider buying it, but not for 59.99€ :/
 
@EtiennedeMartel The comic is perfect.
 
Hi, I'd like to ask for more information in one of the answers given here: stackoverflow.com/questions/356950/c-functors-and-their-uses/…
but I can't figure out where to click :| Maybe I can just ask here?
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Did I just post my answer when you said that? :)
 
@imateapot Go for it. The guy who answered that regularly comes here.
@Xeo Yeah...
 
7:20 PM
My question is quickest put about the answer by matthew Crumley (the one with 13 upvotes)
 
Xeo
@Mysticial Not only that, I think others in here can answer aswell
 
He calls: std::transform(array, array + 5, array, MultiplyBy(3));
Now I'd like to replace that 3 by a runtime variable, say n is taken from cin and then write
std::transform(array, array + 5, array, MultiplyBy(n));
 
Xeo
You can go ahead and do that.
 
I've tried that sort of code and am getting a unresolved external symbol "public: double __thiscall
 
@imateapot That looks like it will just work. Have you tried it?
 
7:22 PM
So I must have messed up elsewhere :(
ok so if n isn't known at compile time, no problem with that
 
Xeo
@imateapot Full error?
 
right? because I'm failing at it :D
 
Xeo
@imateapot Yeah, since it's just a normal argument passed to the constructor.
it's not a template argument or anything
 
source.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "public: double __thiscall GaussHermite::operator()<class BSCall>(class BSCall)const " (??$?RVBSCall@@@GaussHermite@@QBENVBSCall@@@Z) referenced in function "double __cdecl zorg(double)" (?zorg@@YANN@Z)
 
Xeo
Code that defines the operator()?
 
7:23 PM
I've managed to make it template, because I wanted to pass to transform not just a pointer to function double->double, but an object that has overloaded operator(), as I think you grasp. Coming
 
Xeo
96
Q: Why can templates only be implemented in the header file?

MainIDQuote from The C++ standard library: a tutorial and handbook: The only portable way of using templates at the moment is to implement them in header files by using inline functions. Why is this?

 
template<class T> double GaussHermite::operator()(T t) const
{
vector<double> fi;
std::transform(x.begin(),x.end(),fi.begin(),t);
return std::inner_product(w.begin(),w.end(),fi.begin(),0.0);
}
There might be some trouble with fi not having reserved room, also I imagine
 
@EtiennedeMartel You can still talk and have the party going on. It's not like everyone has to be glued to the sound of one person's voice. D:
 
Xeo
@imateapot Is that in a .cpp file? :)
 
let's forget that for the sake of argument .. yes
in a .cpp
x and w are member
 
Xeo
7:25 PM
Then see the question I posted above.
A template definition needs to be in a header, unless you know exactly what you're doing
 
@DomagojPandža If I have a RenderTarget, and I want to see what's been drawn into that RenderTarget by drawing it's texture onto the screen, how would I go about doing that? o_O
 
aah
 
@nneonneo Holy shit... I can't say whether it's correct though:
0
A: Bomb dropping algorithm

brandizziI was trying a linear programming approach and got stuck but maybe some concepts can be helpful. Let-me try to show them. Let Pm x n be the matrix with the values of the positions: Now let define a bomb matrix B(x, y)m x n,with 1 ≤ x ≤ m, 1 ≤ y ≤ n as below in such a way that For exampl...

 
That's cool.
 
don't suppose anyone knows a reputable site that sells simcity cd keys? (for less than 60€ :p)
 
Xeo
7:32 PM
@melak47 Why would you even want that? :P
 
@Mysticial That's some intense Linear Algebra shit.
 
@melak47 ebay?
 
@AndreiTita :E
 
You are going to make me google that.
"A smiley used to describe a three-toothed vampire walrus."
Good enough.
 
lol
 
7:37 PM
Thank you Xeo, that did it
 
@melak47 >buying sim city
 
@Rapptz if I could find a cheap one :p
@CatPlusPlus you ready to stream fallout yet? :p
 
Finishing with mods
At least I would be if stupid FOMM wouldn't crash all the time
 
I still don't know where to click to comment/ask further questions in the comment sections of answers - dooes one need reputation to do that?
 
@imateapot Yes
 
7:40 PM
@CatPlusPlus lol. Have you tried the Nexus Mod Manager? worked rather well with skyrim for me
 
THanks. cheerio
 
Xeo
np
 
-1
Q: faster computer algorithem?

user2035165Sorry to ask here about the exercise, i know that the website is not to solve exercise, but i solve it. the problem is that i came up with to method to solve the exercise and i dont know which one is correct so if you can help me with it Suppose you have a computer that requires 1 minute to solv...

^^ Is that a "do my homework for me"?
Yeah, it looks like it.
 
homework sucks
 
7:43 PM
10 - "what have you tried"
downvote
downvote
5 - "you suck"
closed by asdf,rth,hwer,hggf,rth
 
@Mysticial: is there a variant of the bomb question i could hold on to and ask in a few weeks to get free rep and finally reach 3k? :P
 
@Borgleader lol... I dunno...
Tongue-in-cheek: if you're after rep, it might be easier to just ask an amazing question.
 
Hmm, I'll try to come up with that. Hell, I'll make for my language so that way it won't be a dupe :P
 
Algorithm questions like the bomb and socks ones tend to result in close/reopen-wars.
 
@CatPlusPlus hurry up, before I do something stupid out of boredom. Like buy simcity.
 
7:46 PM
The performance questions are safer. (if asked properly)
 
@Mysticial socks?
 
Damnit, I have an idea but I can't find a legit source for it. Either because I suck a googling or because whoever told me the fact in the first place was wrong
 
@Mysticial: interesting bomb solution, but I am concerned that the LP nature will admit silly things like dropping 2.4 bombs on a square
 
@Mysticial whoa, you weren't kidding about "close wars" :p
 
7:48 PM
@Borgleader If you're gonna do a performance question, make sure you include a copy-paste SSCCE with benchmarks. And try not to make it too long.
 
Should be live (it will be terrible)
 
@Mysticial: additionally the guy's comment that he knows next to nothing about LP is concerning
 
@Mysticial Well my idea for a question was that apparently in Scala the generics are not instantiated into multiple copies like C++ templates, apparently the AST is modified at runtime. I was going to ask something related to that. But I can't find a legit source for the AST modification part :(
 
@CatPlusPlus link?
 
7:51 PM
grr
so the current status of bomb question is:
 
Private?
 
answer #1 is wrong
 
@Borgleader That might be too specialized to get a lot of attention. At least I wouldn't be able to answer it since I don't know Scala.
 
answer #2 is "oh this might make a solution but I don't know and there's some weird cases"
answer #3 is "here's a theoretical exptime algo for it"
answer #4 is a wrong greedy approach
 
@CatPlusPlus doesn't do anything :S
 
7:52 PM
@nneonneo I upvoted the second answer to help bump it up. He seems to be onto something. As it is right now, I don't think that question is gonna get a real answer.
 
answer #5 is "I don't really know what I'm doing but let me blearf some thoughts onto the page"
 
@melak47 What doesn't do anything
 
that question is a ginormous mess
 
@CatPlusPlus entering that as a passthing
I get the "this channel is private" page again and again :/ doesn't even say the password is wrong, or anything :/
 
@nneonneo In other words, the status of the bomb question is: NP-complete - Non-arguably Problematic.
 
7:53 PM
@Mysticial: or, conversely, it might be just interesting enough to get a buttton of votes from people who don't know any better
@Mysticial: oh dear
 
Xeo
@nneonneo, could you please directly reply to messages? :) There's an arrow on the far-right of a message
 
@Xeo té, I didn't even notice. Thanks. (Chat noob!)
 
And speaking of algorithm questions...
0
Q: Hungarian algorithm: I'm having trouble with assigning as many jobs to workers as possible

ksm001I have created an implementation of the Hungarian algorithm in C++. This implementation works very well for many cases. However there are some cases that my algorithm does not work at all because I believe(and it's true) that my implementation of one step of the algorithm is wrong. My implementa...

 
Xeo
@nneonneo We have that top-pinned message for a reason. :)
 
7:55 PM
@melak47 Try now
 
@CatPlusPlus same
 
And now?
 
@JerryCoffin tl;dr, lol
 
@CatPlusPlus still not working. sure that's the password?
 
Yeah I'll just get rid of it
 
7:57 PM
I even signed into the twitch thing, doesn't help
 
@Xeo ah, brilliant. thank you for pointing out the thing that I clearly didn't bother reading.
 
Should work without a password now
 
@Mysticial I didn't read it all either, but got far enough to think it's pretty much: "give a complete, detailed history of task scheduling in 100 words or less. You have 5 minutes."
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Still private
 
why are there ads on your channel :S
 

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