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3:00 PM
@sehe ow
that's harsh
2
A: C global unsized array?

Alok SaveThis is not good simply because the standard does not allow variable length arrays to be global. This program depends on implementation specific extensions and is not portable across different implementations.

I'm inclined to say UB, rather than VLA extension...
 
@sehe sorry, what were we talking about? :P
 
:effort: :effort: :effort:
 
and I was only joking about le OCD :P
 
I know.
@TonyTheLion Well, it somehow annoys me that the pirate can throw anything at you whenever he thinks of it, yet when you respond to it, he always (well, often) immediately bounces it back saying "Huh; What are you taaaaaawking about?! <hands-up-in-despair/><roll-eyes/>".
 
@sehe oh :(
 
3:05 PM
but seriously, if I ever I am being a bit of a dick, just tell me. I am not trying to be a dick, I just often come across as such
 
@thecoshman Nah. Not really. Well, long time ago maybe. Nothing relevant.
 
user784668
@TonyTheLion Actually it's possible. And quite often useful in hobby OS development, especially for the kernel image.
 
@sehe it's because I am saying things with very little thought. If I ever know what you are referring to, it would be a sign that I actually meant what I said.
 
@Fanael oh maybe it's possible, but I have no idea bout things like that.
 
@thecoshman I don't think it's a problem that your response is oblivious either. Just, don't be surprised if I tell you I think that's lame :)
 
3:07 PM
@sehe please dude, just get it off you chest
@sehe would you rather I spent ages trawling through the chat history for the context?
 
@thecoshman You already know. I bet you, like me, forgot. That's how it's supposed to be! You get annoyed, you grumble, end of story
@thecoshman YESSS! xD
 
@sehe was it something in particular, or just general grumbling?
5 mins ago, by sehe
:effort: :effort: :effort:
 
@thecoshman You've seen it, you tell me :)
 
@sehe saying that you have OCD?
 
@thecoshman It's not too difficult, by the way: "OCD" + Enter, voila (was the top hit before we added this thread)
 
3:09 PM
(btw, I have no idea what :effort: looks like as I don't have that extension)
 
user784668
0
A: Linking: making virtual address corresponding to file offset

FanaelIf it's a PE file, you can make the file alignment equal to the section alignment. In GNU ld you can do that by passing --file-alignment 4096 (as the default section alignment is 4096 and can't be less, according to the PE specs) to the linker. If you don't care about making a valid PE, --sectio...

 
@thecoshman I didn't mind. I just realized, when posting those Mumble traffic charts, that I was probably going further off the scale when you already thought I had OCD :)
So, I thought I'd copy you in the loop, just for fun and giggles
 
I see...
 
@thecoshman Huh. What extension. It looks like this:
 
:effort: is not an extension, it's just a way of expression a thought
 
3:11 PM
I never seriously thought you had OCD, perhaps a fondness for random logs. Still, sorry if I offended/upset you (and no, I am not trying to belittle you)
 
I think Cat introduced it
 
@TonyTheLion U Cat? (<-- uselessuseofcat.com)
 
@sehe Cat++
 
@sehe yes, HIM Cat
 
@sehe lol
 
3:13 PM
@thecoshman Again. I thought it was funny. I know it mainly amuses you, which is why I didn't want you to miss my further log excavations :)
 
well, I know Cat has an extension that converts things like :this: into emoticons
@sehe ah, well... perhaps if I wasn't so perplexed by you tagging me, I might have :P
But you do seem to have a thing for logs :P
 
Erase it, go back, gawk at useless charts in disbelieve, start a belly-rumbling-laughter-salvo, report back: PROFIT!!!
 
meh, moments gone :P
 
@thecoshman In fact, I have a thing for programming, and using programming to distill data from seemingly opaque sources. I mean, it's not like mumble has any facility whatsoever for (per-connection) bandwitdh metering, let alone aggregating per user.
 
user1357851
$ cat youIdiot // cat file called youIdoit
 
3:16 PM
It's one of those "integration" things. I do have a weakness for that. Very much.
@Telkitty Simplify:
> cat -
@Telkitty Woah, assuming 'youIdiot' does exist:
cat: //: Is a directory
cat: cat: No such file or directory
cat: file: No such file or directory
cat: called: No such file or directory
cat: youIdoit: No such file or directory
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes it's obviously in base 5, 6 or 7.
 
user1357851
@sehe man cat
 
@sehe nice
 
@Telkitty Also, cat - is functionally equivalent, assuming you didn't redirect stdin from a smart source :)
 
3:20 PM
@StackedCrooked You-I-do-it!
 
Yeah, he's a real I-do-it kind of person.
 
@ustulation Hi there. This is not a helpdesk. Please read the newbie-hints
 
user1357851
when you call 'man cat' , 'man cat' actually answers and gives you a bunch of staff
 
@Telkitty you must be kidding, right
 
staff? like personnel?
 
3:22 PM
precoizely
 
user1357851
try call man cat on your linux terminal
 
@Telkitty no need
 
@sehe : it says i can questions in chat :(
 
@ustulation I don't understand what you are saying. However: should be clear. Also, there is a site for questions, which you may know:
 
user784668
@sehe What's that?
 
3:24 PM
lol
 
@Fanael It's what happens if you call a function that is recursive on all control paths.
 
@FredOverflow Or, if it isn't, but the systems resources are depleted before the recursion reached maximum depth.
 
@sehe what ever floats your boat man :P
 
@thecoshman Thank you! :) I hope you didn't forget about the thrill of making the computer do stuff it couldn't previously do
 
@sehe How can you have a stack overflow without overflowing the stack?
 
3:27 PM
@FredOverflow And non-tail-recursive.
 
@sehe no, I know that's still out there. Just trying to hold onto more humble things right now
 
@sehe stackoverflow? never heard of that.
 
@FredOverflow You don't need to have infinite recursion in order to overflow the stack. FWIW, a small stack may suffice too
 
@DeadMG Right, in the case of tail-recursion, you could get away with an infinite loop instead of a stack overflow :)
 
user784668
@FredOverflow Citation?
 
3:28 PM
Aw god. Trolling high
 
@sehe Right, of course. Just put a huge array onto the stack. Stupid me.
 
@FredOverflow Or many many ints.
 
user1182183
@BartekBanachewicz VK_APPS seems to be the correct key
 
@StackedCrooked You'd probably hit some compiler limit long before you get a stack overflow at runtime :)
 
@StackedCrooked Or nothing, but recurse deeply (not necessarily infinitely)
 
3:32 PM
Or super many chars.
 
@sehe I said that infinite recursion leads to a stack overflow. I didn't say that there couldn't be other causes.
 
user784668
@FredOverflow Well, you're wrong anyway. The standard doesn't say anything about infinite recursion.
 
user784668
Or does it?
 
You can overflow the stack with vector.
Too many vector objects on the stack and it will overflow :P
 
@FredOverflow I know. I did add that for completeness
 
3:34 PM
@Fanael There are things in the real world that are not part of the C++ standard.
 
@Fanael Meh.
 
@Fanael One of the Annexes mentions physical limits of implementations that are recognized
 
user784668
@sehe Yeah, but these are recommended values. Zero is conforming, and so is infinity.
 
@Fanael I know. They're mentioned. It's not completely ignored in the non-normative text.
 
3:38 PM
 
@sehe Don't break my machine!
Btw, stdlib.h?
 
@StackedCrooked I shouldn't be able to.
 
Yeah, I'm just kidding.
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah, it turns out coliru 32-bit is broken.
 
What is coliru 32-bit?
 
3:40 PM
Try compiling -m32 (I had <cstdlib> first, for rand(). Turns out, no headers can be found
@StackedCrooked When you don't -m64, obviously
 
Ah.
There are some broken symbolic links in the chroot.
Due to wrong rsync probably.
 
@StackedCrooked Hah. The bill will come at the end of the month
@StackedCrooked I believe it does have something like --safe-symlinks and or 'follow symlinks' mode. Hmm. I don't really know how you set up your chroot anyways.
Any reason you wouldn't pbuilder it?
 
Never heard of pbuilder.
I've been looking into linux containers.
 
It's the debian build-farm thingie for isolated package building. It comes (obviously) with extensive chroot building support. Including COW, IIRC
@StackedCrooked Where are they? Is it some descendant of UML? Or kvm-style
 
> LXC (LinuX Containers) is an operating system-level virtualization method for running multiple isolated Linux systems (containers) on a single control host.
 
3:45 PM
@StackedCrooked Does it share the kernel?
 
Hm.
> LXC relies on the Linux kernel cgroups functionality that became available in version 2.6.24, developed as part of LXC.
 
Ah well, then UML or chroot is basically as feature-rich (IMO). Yes it will be faster, but also more involved
 
I don't know what cgroups are either.
 
@StackedCrooked It means, basically, that the kernel can limit visibility of kernel objects to a group of user processes
 
Ah, I see.
 
user784668
3:47 PM
I bet it's something Windows had in the previous century.
 
In the end I like chroot because it's so simple.
 
chroots, in principle, could see kernel objects from outside the chroot (it can be made harder, but there's no kernel isolation)
@Fanael Nope.
 
user784668
@sehe Nope?
 
@StackedCrooked Precisely. I either chroot, OR I go full virtualization (Xen or maybe kvm)
@Fanael No pope
 
Hi.
Also, ugh, silly person is claiming that f(shared_ptr<T>) is better than f(T&) because if you use multithreading and don't care to sinchronize your shared state, the latter fucks up vOv.
 
3:55 PM
Have fun typing it into your computer.
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes f(shared_ptr<T>) is better than f(T&). If you're being paid for characters typed.
 
@Fanael Meh. Best to s/T/GenericTemplateArgumentType/ then
@StackedCrooked OCR? pdf2ps && ps2text?
 
user784668
@sehe Best to write Java then.
 
@sehe Today, yes.
 
Okay, OCR only on Saturdays :) Got it
@Fanael Prezoidly
 
4:00 PM
I have to work on weekdays and sunday is for church.
..not :)
 
ITT: StackedCrooked goes to church on weekdays too
That is quite astounding, though. It's just one of the pages...
 
never heard of whitespace?
 
That's ALGOL or something right?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes BASIC.
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes looks like some BASIC
 
user784668
4:03 PM
@DeadMG Whitespace didn't exist back then.
 
^ It gets better. Patches for Model II :)
 
I thought that in BASIC some whitespace was important.
 
It's lisp implemented in basic.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Some. Perhaps they condensed it for magazine printing. You know BASIC usually has a token-based save format (disk space...). Which also implies in most basic dialects, you can't keep custom code formatting.
 
It seems they are using : as a statement separator.
 
4:04 PM
@StackedCrooked I hope they do. That's BASIC syntax, after all
 
Line numbers are so silly.
 
user784668
ITT the lounge regulars don't know basic programming.
 
Lol. Dat pun
 
I remember when I had to insert lines I ended up with no numbers left between two statements.
So then I decided to increment by 100 instead of by 10 :)
 
@StackedCrooked Me too. I believe GWBASIC had something like RENUM
 
4:06 PM
That's so hilarious.
C64 didn't have renum. So you're fucked if you run out of numbers.
 
user784668
0
Q: Is is standard C++ to call move() with an output iterator that has been moved previously?

masrtisWhile brushing up on algorithm design and learning C++11 at the same time, I came up with the following implementation for heap sort: template <typename It, typename Comp> void heapSort(It begin, It end, Comp compFunc, std::random_access_iterator_tag) { std::make_heap(begin, end, comp...

 
user784668
y u can't inplace
 
@StackedCrooked Line numbers were for implicit ed/edlin.exe style editing: there was no 'source file'. Just an array of parser tokens to be interpreted. And the array was indexed with line numbers. So, in fact you could not "load a program source", instead you'd "store token lists at addresses (line numbers)"
 
The numbers were also needed for goto.
 
user784668
What? goto is EVIL!!!
 
4:09 PM
Not back then.
Back then it hadn't suffered a change of heart yet.
 
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes /s
 
goto became the black sheep
 
@StackedCrooked You could do it in software though.
 
I didn't know that.
I was 13 back then.
I learned some BASIC from library books.
 
The line numbers themselves were encoded in 16 bit, and references to them were encoded as strings.
And they could only be referenced by GOTO or THEN, which were encoded as 1 or 2 bytes, I cannot remember right now.
 
4:15 PM
How come you know this shit?
 
Hacker Mentality
 
Well, if you're interested in computers, and all you have is a Commodore 64, then you're bound to eventually know almost everything about it ;-)
 
I remember doing lots of POKE &Hxxxx, val and then DEF PROC to call my own assembly code from GWBASIC :)
 
I mean, you could build your own BASIC extensions, how cool was that?
@sehe I didn't even know that was possible, cool. On the C64, all we had was SYS 12345 :-)
I think you it was also possible to pass arguments like SYS 12345,foo,bar
 
@FredOverflow Yeah. I never had commodore. Back then, I didn't even have a PC. I worked on PCs at others (adult people...) after I earned the trust. I'm still grateful for that
 
4:20 PM
Also, variable names were cut off after the first two characters. So BAR and BAZ denoted the same variable :)
Commodore 64 was awesome, but I wouldn't want to go back to goto-riden BASIC code based on line numbers. You couldn't even write a named function :)
Of course there were higher level compilers, but nobody I knew used them. You either used BASIC or went straight to assembly language.
Hm, I could write a C compiler for the C64 and call it C64 or something :)
 
@FredOverflow lol
 
user784668
@FredOverflow call it php
 
@sehe Do you think C will still be around in 51 years? :)
 
@FredOverflow I tried both a Pascal compiler and a Forth implementation, but both were quite awful.
@FredOverflow If memory serves, there was one named cc64.
 
@JerryCoffin Was int 8 bit and long 16 bit? :)
 
user784668
4:26 PM
@FredOverflow illegal
 
@FredOverflow Not sure -- I heard of it, but never used it.
@Fanael Remember, this predates any standard for C by quite a bit.
 
@Fanael Fuck your standardese, the C64 is the Chuck Norris of home computers and can have an 8 bit int!
 
@FredOverflow In some (twisted) way shape or form, yes
 
Do you think #pragma once will be standard by then, or will people still use #ifndef/#define/#endif? lol
 
#pragma once is not standard by definition
 
4:30 PM
We will have modules, so #pragma once is only around for legacy mode
 
@sehe when?
 
user784668
@JerryCoffin doesn't predate K&R, and C64 was discontinued after C89 was published. But I have no fucking clue what K&R C was like, including its requirements on basic types.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Around 2030
 
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz …
 
Xeo
4:35 PM
@sehe Around today (module-clang :D)
 
user142019
What happens to pipes when the chunks they're in get unloaded?
 
Xeo
Also, morning.
@Zoidberg They stop, what else.
Well, if you're talking FTB, that is
 
user142019
What about the items in them? Are they frozen or deleted?
 
user142019
Yes MindCrack. :P
 
Xeo
There are chunk loaders and stuff, though.
@Zoidberg They're basically frozen
 
4:35 PM
We were talking about standardized
 
Xeo
lol, deleted.
As if
 
user142019
@Xeo Ah thanks.
 
user142019
Ideal would be a block that keeps the chunk it's in loaded forever.
 
Xeo
47 secs ago, by Xeo
There are chunk loaders and stuff, though.
 
@Zoidberg Are you a plumber now?
 
user142019
4:36 PM
@FredOverflow yes in Minecraft.
 
Xeo
A quarry also keeps the chunks it's in loaded.
 
user142019
I have a pipe from the bottom of the world to a chest room on the surface.
 
@Zoidberg Minecraft = Java
 
@FredOverflow Mariocraft.
 
@Fanael I'm not sure the compiler in question was still available by 1990 (my last contact with the C64 was around 1985 or maybe 1986). I don't think K&R 1 specified sizes.
 
4:37 PM
@JerryCoffin I didn't get mine until 1991 or something :)
But I started reading C64 magazines in 1990.
 
user142019
@Xeo hmm yes, I see. A Chunk Loader block.
 
user142019
I'll check it out thanks.
 
Xeo
It's pricey, though, and requires you to put Enderpearls into it to keep it working
 
I looked at the listings and wondered "How the fuck does a computer turn these numbers into a game with rules and graphics and stuff?"
 
@FredOverflow By '91 I had a 386 with 8 whole megabytes of RAM -- which people at the time were convinced there would never be any use for. Actually, it was around '91 or '92 that I got a 486...
 
4:39 PM
@Xeo you are using the wrong one :p
 
@JerryCoffin Monkey Island 1 was also 1991, so there was your use for it :)
 
in the mindcrack pack, there is both world anchors that take a shit tone of crap and need perls to feed them, and then chunk loaders that just sit there being great /cc @Zoidberg @Xeo
 
I remember 4MB RAM costing about €150 back then (of course there was no such thing as the € yet).
 
user784668
By '91 I was worrying about…, uh, dunno, cookies, but certainly not computers.
 
Xeo
@thecoshman Hm... I had a feeling they didn't have the easy one, since Mindcrack generally opted for hard-mode (i.e., GregTech is also in hard mode).
 
4:40 PM
@Fanael Cookies? Were you inventing the Internet back then?
 
@Xeo yeah I know, but that's what I used. ¬_¬ though it messed up for me, some how loaded more then just the chunks it was supposed to, and my boiler ran out of fuel
 
@FredOverflow Yeah prices were pretty outrageous. I'm pretty sure I spent at least twice as much on my 386 as on my current machine.
 
@Xeo Is it worth it though? Couldn't you abuse a tiny quarry to load the chunk of your choice anyway?
 
@LucDanton quarries are stupidly costly to build
 
user784668
@FredOverflow no, the cookies one eats. I said '91 not '94.
 
4:42 PM
@JerryCoffin I think we paid about €1000 for our 486 with 4MB RAM and 100MB hard drive.
 
@thecoshman We're comparing with setting up a way to farm pearls here.
 
@LucDanton huh? if you want to keep a part of the map load 'chunk loader' is the cheapest option in mindcrack pack
 
Come to think of it, I think I linked to the wrong message. Should have been @Xeo's.
 
it only takes two pearls for crafting, and has no running costs. and is very flexible in terms of what chunks it keeps laoded
and if you really want to farm mob drops, spend some time grinding away with a shard :P
 
user784668
Are modules intended to be included in C++17?
 
4:50 PM
If a man does only what is required of him, he is a slave. if a man does more than is required of him, he is a free man. - Anonymous
If a man does only what is required of him, you're not paying him enough
 
Xeo
I really wonder why the fuck I can't start the FTB launcher. "Program too big to fit in memory." :s
 
Use 64-bit Java
 
Xeo
I have 2GB RAM
 
Then you're shit out of luck running it anyway
 
Xeo
I mean, I can't even start the launcher itself
 
4:51 PM
@JerryCoffin rather crazy if you think about it.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Hey, it worked rather okay-ish before!
 
I had to increase the heap to 6GB to be able to move in-game
 
@Xeo me too, I run it just fine
 
you can now appreciate how awesome it is.
 
user142019
I built a nuclear reactor today to power a quarry. :3
 
4:53 PM
@TonyTheLion ...especially when you figure my current machine is almost 7 years old, so it still probably cost twice as much as something at least as good would now.
 
user142019
With an electric engine for the conversion.
 
@CatPlusPlus Minecraft?
 
@Zoidberg fool, don't uses quarries, use mining turtles
 
@BartekBanachewicz With FTB mods Lounge server uses
 
@Zoidberg So you completed something?
 
4:53 PM
@CatPlusPlus oh man. I need more RAM
 
user142019
lol
 
@JerryCoffin yes, indeed.
 
I regret settling on 8GB so much now
 
@CatPlusPlus you must have something else wrong, I run FTB with only 2gig
 
in these days it's barely enough.
 
4:54 PM
@thecoshman Well I don't run it in wireframe mode in 320x240 if that's what you mean
 
I wonder if they have the ram I bought, the only CL5 this damn store had
 
8GB RAM is really the absolute minimum I think on a modern machine
 
@CatPlusPlus hahaha
 
16GB is nice
 
@JerryCoffin Something three times as good would now.
 
4:55 PM
16 minimum
 
Yea but if I am going to buy another 8 it should be exactly the same
so I wonder if they still have it
 
@CatPlusPlus nah, I run it on normal settings, though I don't like the look of MC full screen, so I keep it windowed
I do have to close of other stuff though...
 
@TonyTheLion The PS4 will have 8GB so yeah, absolute minimum
 
Well I ran out of heap loading more than one chunk
 
@DeadMG Probably -- memory prices (in particular) have dropped a lot. 8 Gigs of DDR2 RAM was pretty expensive, but 8 Gigs of DDR3 now is nearly free.
 
4:57 PM
When are we getting DDR4?
 
@JerryCoffin DDR2 is stupid prices though
 
When they port it from GPUs
 
I really regret going with DDR2 when I got my PC
 
how can I check the model of my RAM? Is it possible tru windows at all?
 
I want DDR-one-million.
 
4:58 PM
@thecoshman I dunno -- I think I paid about the same for the 8 Gig of DDR2 as I did for the 8 Meg of RAM in the 386 that I mentioned previously.
 
CPUZ can identify memory chips
 
@thecoshman Too slow?
 
@BartekBanachewicz I don't think so... probably just need to 'pop the hood'
 
@BartekBanachewicz You might be able to with CPU-Z
 
damn fuck they don't have it already
 
4:58 PM
@Borgleader DDR4 standard was published in September, so I'd guess we'll start seeing it (and chipsets to support it) fairly soon.
 
35 secs ago, by Cat Plus Plus
CPUZ can identify memory chips
 
Y U NO SELL CL5 memory anymore :<
 
Slowpokes
 
@StackedCrooked want more, but DDR2 is ridiculouslly expensive compared to DDR3
 
@JerryCoffin Neat :) But that means I need to get a new motherboard when they come out :(
 
4:59 PM
It's superseded and most manufacturing is done with DDR3 that's why
 

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