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12:00 PM
Holy raspberries, that event is popular.
 
Anyone has ever fought -Wswitch with scoped enumerations?
 
Evening all.
 
Is that the one about missing cases?
 
Also case value '1' not in enumerated type.
 
Seems noisy.
 
12:04 PM
I decided I didn't want to remove the warning. If-branches galore.
> unit/include/unit/range_unit_test.hpp(309): error in "range_generate": check it == reference.end() failed
Is that enough information? The generic range test failed for range_generate, but that unit test actually proceeds with two instantiations, and I don't know which one it is :(
Well in that case the same error is generated twice so I suppose both fails. This time.
 
Reflection for unit tests seems possibly useful.
 
Xeo
room mode changed to Public: anyone may enter and talk
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is that a tangential thought, or related?
 
Former.
Maybe latter. Just a spark of an idea.
 
Fine with me.
Not sure though. I tend to test for behaviours. What more can I learn about a behaviour via reflection?
 
12:10 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes What is it? A class for writing poor English?
oh dear I'm getting quite cynical in my old age
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit No fucking clue. Also, not funny :S
 
uh huh
you laughed and you know it
 
@Jefffrey why the hell is every Joel article such a steaming bowl of wrong
"don't use multithreading, it's too ~~~complicated~~~"
 
@LucDanton I was thinking about the implementation of the unit test framework, mostly, not user code written against it.
 
makes sense
 
12:13 PM
@TheForestAndtheTrees he wrote one good one once
 
Trying to remember which it was
 
Sounds memorable.
 
12:14 PM
"Sure, there’s nothing officially wrong with trying to write multithreaded code in C++ on Windows using COM. But it’s prone to disastrous bugs" You know what else is prone to bugs, rushing out untested code.
 
Not even his, but a forum post
 
Erm, when did we become a gallery?
 
@GamesBrainiac Eh?
 
A troll come by recently?
 
@TheForestAndtheTrees Multi-threaded code is hard to test in its multi-threadedness
 
12:15 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I see a lock next to LoungeC++ :P
 
That's not even a good post
 
Mmmh, range::generate(f) can easily be a saveable range, and so far I allow it as long as f is copy constructible -- but for something like int i = -1; generate([&i] { return ++i; }); it shouldn't be: a copy will touch i which affects all copies. Any way out of that?
 
@TheForestAndtheTrees Bugs don't exist if you don't observe them!
 
@GamesBrainiac The way I understand it, when a room is in gallery we wouldn't be able to speak
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Doesn't make testing completely worthless though.
 
12:15 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit we have been approved :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes No of course not. But relying on testing as an answer to "multi-threadedness adds complexity" is silly
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit I think you have write access.
 
generate_one(f)?
 
Inexplicably
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, sweet. Thought only room owners had that ability.
@CatPlusPlus Die
 
12:16 PM
Eh, will leave for later. Can't even write move-only lambdas.
 
@LucDanton Not without explicit tagging, I think.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Trying, takes a while though
 
@CatPlusPlus :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ya. Wondering about a nice-ish way to do it though.
 
I've used that joke already
I'm getting old
 
user1804599
12:17 PM
h1 >>= f = h1 >> f
    (error "Text.Blaze.Internal.MarkupM: invalid use of monadic bind")
 
user1804599
This looks weird.
 
I still want to leave 'copy constructible means CopyConstructible' as the default. It's the escape hatch I need to provide.
 
@not-rightfold WTF why is that even. Sounds like someone abusing instance Monad to overload >>. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, not denying multi-threads are a pain too, (esp. if you're using COM, vomit), I just dislike the "just ship it" attitude
 
@TheForestAndtheTrees course
as if "you will have bugs and you can't avoid it" is an excuse to ship as many as possible
 
12:20 PM
If you can't beat them, join them.
 
How about joining them then beating them from within?
 
If you can't join them, beat them.
 
Shipping bugs sounds weird
 
user1804599
@R.MartinhoFernandes It’s from Blaze. It does this for nice do-notation but yeah it’s terrible.
 
12:25 PM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit that css
 
@CatPlusPlus well that livefeed thing is one of the "mp" mods, but there's also another which aims for actual multiplayer, so you don't just see their locations and stuff on the map
 
Eh, I can't see that working well
 
yeah, you're just gonna ram everyone out of orbit :>
 
I mean, you'd have to basically get rid of time warp (and esp physics warp)
 
they have something figured out for that I think. but I don't think the whole mod is very far along anyway
but also...mods
 
12:28 PM
So yeah it'd be orbital fights because nobody would want to spend 10 hours to get anywhere
@melak47 What, warp everyone? :v
 
You could just stick to the slowest speed requested.
 
That'd be 1x most of the time
There's a lot of shortburst warping
I don't think ~real~ multiplayer would be very fun in this game
 
@CatPlusPlus I think the basic idea was to still let people timewarp, but to also let them "sync" with other player's "timezones"
 
Right
 
@melak47 Oh gosh.
 
12:31 PM
That's a great multiplayer physics model
 
they may very well be in way over their heads with this, but hey if it goes somewhere, I won't complain
 
The devs said it's basically impossible, and they know a thing or two about this
 
pfsh they are just lazy!
 
@CatPlusPlus in KSP? it would be a pain to be limited to who ever wanted to play at the slowest speed
 
12:32 PM
that said, maybe it would force people to do other things whilst missions are ongoing
I know I tend to play one mission at a time
 
DEFCON had several options for setting the timespeed.
 
DEFCON missions don't take days in realtime
 
I guess they can if you don't speed it up.
 
try years if you wanna go somewhere interesting :D
 
days? it can take years of real time to complete some missions
 
12:34 PM
I mean going to the second moon is like 12 hours
 
@CatPlusPlus Several hours is still too many when people want e.g. a 15 minute game.
 
@LucDanton That's why this won't work here ever
 
hey folks
 
I like that livefeed idea
 
I actually have no idea what's the scale of a DEFCON game in real-time. ISTR there's a real-time speed only setting which you're supposed to combine with the 'Office mode' panic button, but I'd never do that.
 
12:35 PM
It would be cool to be able to interact with others in real time
 
@CatPlusPlus Why not?
 
two players each manning one half a station trying to get the to meet up
 
@LucDanton Now I'm not sure what are you trying to say
KSP has time speed settings
 
should I use std::reference_wrapper<T> x for class members? I noticed that f(x) may lead to weird errors if f is a function template, and f(x.get()) looks kinda ugly
 
So does DEFCON.
 
12:36 PM
@thecoshman Like the ASTP?
 
don't see where the big problem is with letting everyone timewarp as they please. if someone timewarps, you see them going around at 10000x speed. so what? :p
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes indeed
you can do it in single player any way, but it would be cool to have another person controlling the other half
 
@melak47 Who needs collisions
But then it's basically that livefeed thing so
 
@thecoshman which your ancestors have been doing for millenniums of years
 
@CatPlusPlus except you can interact and shit when you're not timewarping. build stations together or whatever
 
12:38 PM
@melak47 what about the planets? at what speed do they run physics?
 
global log
 
@LucDanton Oh yes.
 
At all speeds duh
 
@thecoshman the planets are on rails :p
 
somehow that annoys me more than it should
 
12:38 PM
@melak47 ... but if you time warp your ship, the planets are too
 
What's the point of warping 10000x to a planet when it moves at 1x
 
For a two-body system the physics can be put in that frame of reference. Doesn't scale up.
 
@thecoshman so? show the other player's relative to where your planets are
 
"Finally, I'm at the encounter no- wait where's the planet"
 
@CatPlusPlus like I said, let every player have their own "real" time
if you warp, your planets warp
if you are on the mun, your icon is on the mun for other players regardless where their muns are
 
12:40 PM
@melak47 how can it work? you can't play together if you are not playing to the same timescale
 
@thecoshman why not? meet up with someone, and sync clocks
you are both on the mun at different times, one of you advances in time to the other.
now your muns and you are in the same time and place
 
OH: I'm a feminist: I love females.
 
I want you to write a physics simulation
And then make it multiplayer
 
@CatPlusPlus what is it with physics?
you can't move the planets
 
@melak47 because if I am playing at 10000x speed, to another player at 1x speed, I am only going at 1/100000 of the speed of them, and imagine if that was me taking of from a planet? at what would appear to them to be 1mm a year almost
if the option is to play in isolation, or play with others players where their speed makes no sense to me, were they are able to suddenly accelerate to what would appear to me faster than light, I chose to play alone.
 
12:43 PM
Planets move you
 
wtf are you talking about
 
Also in atmosphere you get physics warp which is even more complicated
 
@melak47 do you understand the time warping mechanic in KSP?
 
@thecoshman if you are on x1000 speed, you are going faster, not slower. why would your movements be played back at x1 for other players and not at x1000?
 
12:44 PM
@melak47 ah what ever, my point is, we can both have the same ship, yet due to both being able to apply our own timewarp have different speeds
 
@thecoshman except you can't do much at warp anyway (except physics warp)
 
Also, it'd be a lot of fun to have server run completely separate simulations for everyone!
 
@CatPlusPlus you have these things called clients, who already do that :p
 
@melak47 an no, if I am at 10000x time warp, I am not going at any different speed through space.
 
@CatPlusPlus Sounds almost like.... everyone is playing on their own!
 
12:45 PM
@melak47 Then clients would need to run completely separate simulations for everyone
Good compromise!
 
@thecoshman that's why I'm saying play the other players' movements back at their speed >_>
 
@CatPlusPlus why? what do you need to simulate for the other players?
 
Why not simply put a small square on a corner and stream their game there?
 
Uh their movement?
 
12:46 PM
@melak47 so I am no loner interacting with the player, but a recording of the player? what if I want to time warp faster than them? how do I know what they are going to be doing in years ahead of time.
@melak47 because they have ships to, ships that I want to interact with, to dock with
 
To shoot down!
 
@thecoshman You're always a loner interacting with a recording.
Most of the time that recording is replayed at real-time.
 
@LucDanton let's keep that the crap out of this
 
And then everyone's ships fall apart because the simulation got horribly inaccurate and exploded
 
@thecoshman yes...and lets say you can only interact physically if you are in the same time AND space. i.e. when you decided to sync your clocks, or met up without timewarping. then your universes are identical and you only need to add the other players craft to yours and simulate one universe..
 
12:48 PM
'Crap'? That's no way to retort to an argument.
 
@LucDanton 'Poop' then
 
The simulation is not a clock
 
@melak47 but I could time warp years ahead from them, then they could timewarp even further ahead than me.
 
Positions are not deterministically calculated from a timestamp
 
@thecoshman ...and
@CatPlusPlus the positions of the planets are. and each player is always in the SoI of one celestial body
 
12:50 PM
@melak47 so what do I see the other player doing in all those years the I timewarp past?
 
@thecoshman you see him doing what he is doing in real time, not a slowed down recording.
 
@melak47 s/s are/ is/
 
But hey, it's so easy, so just whip out a proof of concept and show us how well it works :v
 
@melak47 Most notably because you can't record the future.
 
# print "In the loop!"
 
12:51 PM
@not around?
 
I don't even
 
@LucDanton speak for yourself!
 
oh the room is unlocked
 
@not-rightfold
 
@CatPlusPlus I'll integrate it into kyrostat! :>
 
12:51 PM
@BartekBanachewicz There's actually very little CSS. It's mostly font tags.
 
@melak47 So, you basically watch a video of their game until you decide to actually play together without timewarp?
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit so hipster.
 
@melak47 how does that work though? I am playing at 1000x, them at 1x, so they would appear to me be going really slow whilst I am 1000x time, but then slow down to 1x and suddenly they are 1000 times faster?
 
pretty sure there is something wrong with my debugger @_@
 
@thecoshman no >_>
 
12:52 PM
@melak47 then what? how can we both travel through time independently?
 
Magic!
 
because you have two independent clocks
 
@melak47 so the secret to time travel is to carry two clocks? I wonder why no one else have ever thought of that. :)
 
@melak47 so basically, we take the brilliant physics engine, and say bollocks to it?
 
I am addicted to shopping on ebay :'(
 
12:53 PM
@thecoshman the physics engine does nothing while in warp anyway
 
@Carter81 tough shit, try not being a douche and someone might have helped you
@melak47 ... yes it does... I kep orbiting
 
I have just bought a bunch of small things on it
 
@Carter81 you. you are what is wrong
 
nope :)
 
2 messages moved to bin
Nope is right
 
12:54 PM
almost definitely sure it's the compiler
 
@Carter81 oh god that variable naming
 
@thecoshman you cannot warp while trottled up, so your orbits remain fixed while in timewarp...so there's nothing to simulate
 
you have no consideration for a community and yet feel entitled to help
 
@thecoshma aggressive trolls who yell at people and call them names while cursing are typically more problematic than people who come in to say thanks to friendly users such as @not
 
@thecoshman Brilliant what now? Wouldn't a brilliant physics engine be a lot more robust? :/
 
12:54 PM
lol, rightfold is friendly?
 
@Carter81 if rightfold was here he'd probably tell you to go and screw yourself and/or use Erlang, so...
Also you don't have to close fstreams explicitely
 
@melak47 it is still simulating. If you are not accelerating, then yes, your velocity remains constant.
 
Ah, so not only are you anti-social, you also assume you know other human beings better than themselves? Interesting.
 
Yes, get out
 
12:55 PM
No, get out
 
@Carter81 sorry
 
We're all jerks.
 
@Carter81 were you saying something about calling people names?
 
Also ahahaha ~~unprofessional~~
 
@Carter81 He only assumed he knows that particular human being better than you, giving that he has been interacting with that particular human being regularly for the past year or so, while you merely exchanged a couple of sentences with him.
 
12:56 PM
@jalf Yea, the users here are extremely aggressive and irrational. Rational users typically don't make irrational demands on casual users to appease social faux pa's they want to force on users who visit to show gratitude towards more helpful users.
 
@Carter81 you disregarded a very clear set of social guidelines. If I ever meet you, don't try to tell me that pissing on you is anti-social.
 
> If you are not accelerating, then yes, your velocity remains constant.
 
Jesus christ nobody cares get out
 
@Carter81 Rational users typically just want demanding whiny people to go away
 
that's not actually true, but your orbits don't change :p
 
12:57 PM
"If I ever meet you, don't try to tell me that pissing on you is anti-social." Any moderators around? This is quite irrational, very aggressive, and honestly just needless. I'd assume this community is more mature than this.
 
@melak47 true true
 
No, it's not
 
@Carter81 It's "faux pas".
 
@Carter81 What on Earth made you assume that?
 
@Carter81 mods are a part of our community, FYI.
 
12:57 PM
Also it's "couldn't care less", just to remind you
(You are a bad poster)
 
@jalf Demanding whiny people? Like the ones demanding that I read rules of conducts, when I come only to say "Thank you @not" and then leave?
 
And yes, there are regularly moderators here, and they know that we don't give a fuck about people being butthurt that people are mean meanyheads to them
2
 
@jalf Then continue to whine about how I refuse to read needless information because I wish only to say thanks?
 
Why are you still here, if you were about to leave
Just fucking leave already
 
@Carter81 it is not irrational, it is not aggressive and it is needed. Take the hint, if people tell you shit is not acceptable, listen to them. We are a community, and have social norms. Be thankful we are willing to tell them to you.
 
12:58 PM
We, the group are the anti-social.
 
@Carter81 Ok, I have to ask, I'm curious. Why is that you consistently mangle every @ name you type?
 
@CatPlusPlus Why did you bin these? What problem did you solve?
 
@Jalf I'd love it if the demanding whiny people go away. But instead, they seem to want me to go away.
 
This one guy that everyone else is shunning is the social guy.
 
@Carter81 Just ignore the losers, or stop whining about them, but stop what you're doing right now please
 
12:59 PM
@Carter81 Oh SNAP! Dat wit
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes he has his own society. With blackjack.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Apparently none, because he's still here
@BartekBanachewicz No that's mine
 
@CatPlusPlus Hopefully we've learnt something here today
Also you should be less of a dick to people.
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yes, that we really need to keep this room closed or finally add banning
 

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