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3:00 PM
Is there a change log somewhere?
 
@EtiennedeMartel There's one on Meta for the Stack Exchange engine. I dunno if chat is part of the engine
 
@Insilico The problem is they believe so much of their own garbage about American Exceptionalism (TM) so they can't ever look outside our own borders for solutions.
 
@Insilico Our government is supposed to be run by the people the elected politicians represent. However, that hasn't been the case for a long time now.
 
@Collin Actually I think they're just a bunch of idiots in general. :-P
@JimNorton Agreed. Too bad our choices aren't all that good.
 
@Insilico I'd like to not have to keep voting for "the lesser of two evils".
 
3:03 PM
Hey, at least you got Obama. We're stuck with Stephen "Cube-shaped head" Harper.
 
@JimNorton Me too.
 
@JimNorton HAha, keep dreaming.
That's what democracy is all about.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes More nothing!
 
Picking the best of two worses.
 
Two party democracy with no proportional representation? Yep, that's pretty much "pick your poison".
 
user784668
3:05 PM
I'm going to vote for C++ in the next elections. Because it's less bad than politicians.
 
so yeah... turns out I am going to have to deal with Java a lot more... I think it's time to step this job hunting up a notch
 
Hunt them with live rounds this time.
 
The real problem is that the typical U.S. citizen has become apathetic. More votes are cast for "American Idol" contestants than for presidential candidates. Sad.
 
@thecoshman did you say notch?
 
@thecoshman Oh Java's not that bad, you just need to invent little games, like seeing how many classes you can create in the least time with the least functionality
 
3:06 PM
@JimNorton is that really true?
 
I'm still surprised at how many votes the Reps get. Voting republican, unless you're rich as fuck, is voting against your interests.
 
@Flexo Yes, it's true.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I think I should work on this hunting thing a bit better... I've been terribly lazy about it
 
user784668
@Collin Java isn't bad, except when you have to work around the language deficiencies. Which means it's always bad.
 
@melak47 ¬_¬ what of it?
 
3:06 PM
Hey, new chat sucks.
 
@Collin this place has me beat
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I haven't noticed a difference
 
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes Why?
 
If someone plinks me my name doesn't get green.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It's the same as before!
 
3:07 PM
@Fanael Have a test.
@EtiennedeMartel Have a test.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes My name is green.
 
@JimNorton The average literacy rate in the U.S. is like 60-70%. I'm not holding my breath.
 
Did you refresh?
 
@JimNorton You have to remember american idol lets the same person vote multiple times. My sister will vote 20+ times every time she can. So it is not really a fair comparison.
 
user784668
What kind of test?
 
3:07 PM
Yep. Several times.
 
Dammit, why did I get the borked one?
 
huh... I don't see any changes... maybe I am getting a cached copy still... stupid F5
 
It's not green! I want the green back.
 
@Insilico And of course, that points to the MAJOR problems. 1) Parents not parenting and 2) Schools not really teaching / students not learning.
 
user784668
Spammed F5. No changes.
 
3:08 PM
:(
Anyone on Chrome?
 
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes Me.
 
Why am I being singled out :(
This is robotism.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yaeh, no changes tha ti can see
 
Is there a revision number on the chat pages (a la Stack Exchange) so I can see if I'm actually seeing any updated versions?
 
3:09 PM
@Insilico Do you have a source for those numbers?
 
@Insilico there is probably one hidden in the JS
 
@Collecter TBH I pulled that number out of my rear end. But it's definitely not >90%. Let me find a source
 
user784668
@RMartinhoFernandes What green? That green? ompldr.org/vZXJmeA/wtfomg.png
 
@Fanael Yes.
 
Actually my definition of "literacy" is probably different from standard measures of literacy
 
@Flexo I was hoping for some confirmation before whining near the powers that be.
 
@Insilico From a quick look most recent source I can find is 1993 World Factbook, which has the total population literacy rate at 97.9%
 
I don't like to bother people if it's something on my end.
 
3:12 PM
@Collecter Yeah, but is it at like a specific grade level?
Like I mean sure you can have 100% literacy if you define literacy as "can read 2nd grade books"
 
@Insilico age 15 and over having completed 5 or more years of schooling is what it was defined as
 
@Flexo Wait, it's back!
 
some one ping me a sec...
 
@Collecter Ah, okay. My definition of literacy is much more strict than that.
@thecoshman Pinged.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes weird
 
3:13 PM
Haha.
1
A: Cannot @reply users with only two alphanumeric characters in their username

balphaThis should be fixed now. The logic of matching a @reply to a username should now be near-identical to the way it works in comments. Since this means the tab autocompleter was also updated, I have sent a system message to all clients asking the users to refresh their chat pages (Example: C. Ross...

 
I'm still not sure what you are on about @R.MartinhoFernandes
 
user784668
in Chat feedback on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, 51 secs ago, by balpha
@RMartinhoFernandes yes, but only for you :)
 
user784668
lol
 
Also you can go through 5 years of schooling and still not know jack shit.
 
@Insilico Found the 2003 factbook, which also defines it as the ability to read and write, which puts it at 99%. How strict is your definition?
 
3:14 PM
@Insilico Who is this "Jack Shit" you speak of? I don't believe I've ever met him.
 
@JimNorton He's related to "Bull Shit" and "Horse Shit".
 
@Insilico Ah yes, the Shit family!
 
Lives next door to "Jack Squat".
 
@Collecter "literacy" might not be the best word for my definition. Perhaps "well-educated" is a better term
 
As an American, I'm not proud of our current educational system.
 
3:16 PM
@JimNorton flawed?
 
@Collin +1 about java.
 
based on how much money you have?
easy to buy your way through?
 
@Insilico That may be a better term.
 
@TimFiner That's what I do when I have to program java. "How deeply can get away with nesting these into packages?" "How many classes can I split this functionality into?"
 
@thecoshman Our students aren't learning, and far too many students are just passed through the system without having learned the curriculum.
 
3:17 PM
allows people to get qualifications for something they no nothing about because they compensated through other subjectS?
 
@thecoshman Yes, fairly flawed, at least IMO. It's oriented much more toward indoctrination than actual education.
 
the main problem with the educational system is that it is both overpriced and underperforming even at the top level
 
@JimNorton I'm actually quite happy with the education system at the university level (if you ignore the financial situation)
At least in the UC system
It's the K-12 schools that are really in trouble
 
UC system is financially untenable
 
oooh... I think I just made some smart political comments :O
 
3:18 PM
@Insilico Yes, higher education is a bit better.
 
I'm so grown up :D
 
@AgainstASicilian It can be financially tenable if our politicans pulled their heads out of their asses.
 
@Insilico No disagreements there
 
I'm way more concerned with the K-12 schools though. A college degree is not for everyone, but a K-12 education is IMO absolutely essential.
 
@Collin heh heh. Oh yeah, don't forget to Name.Your.Packages.andClasses.With.as.Many.Characters.As.Possible
 
user784668
3:20 PM
@Insilico Snowball's chance in hell, eh?
 
@Insilico indeed, there are precious few years where you can helps kids be the best they can
 
@Insilico 100% agree. We would do well to promote vocational training after high school instead of forcing everyone into college.
 
@Insilico I would agree with you there, too. K-12 is in a lot of trouble right now, and some of the political influx right now (especially from Romney's side) is detrimental in some pretty major ways (a big contributor being voucher systems)
thing is even higher education has its flaws
 
@TimFiner ah now, don't mock the package system too much, it beats the shitty C++ method
 
@AgainstASicilian Romney is an idiot (even by politician standards). I don't even know how people can vote for him.
 
3:22 PM
@Insilico People don't vote based on reasoned logic, typically
 
@Insilico Likewise I don't see how people can vote for Obama.
 
@JimNorton Yes. Of course if you want to pursue a college education, then by all means we should encourage it.
 
You pick the candidate that is the best fit given the process
No one candidate is ideal
 
user784668
You have more than two choices, right? Right?
 
@Fanael No, not really.
 
user784668
3:23 PM
Ah, right. In the US, you don't.
 
We have a two party system that pretty much ensures a third or fourth party will never get elected.
 
@Fanael Technically, but the minor parties do not really count as they typically have no chance to even enter the national debate scene, let alone do well at the polls.
 
@JimNorton How come?
 
@thecoshman I can't agree. Getting something that's lousy but just barely bearable is often much worse than nothing. It sucks, but people will put up with it because it's standard. Having nothing at all means at least somebody might work at doing something well.
 
I just think it's hilarious how one party can literally hold its own country hostage and people are somehow OK with this
 
3:24 PM
@EtiennedeMartel How come there is no chance for a third party?
 
You get a choice between right or far right. If you're a progressive, suck it up.
 
@JerryCoffin The C++ method is lousy but just bearable.
Well, I may be pushing it on the "bearable" part.
 
@Collecter I don't know.
 
@Collecter Actually a third party can have a chance. They just don't happen often
 
@EtiennedeMartel I was asking if that was your question.
 
3:25 PM
Sometimes a third party can completely change the dynamics of an election
 
@Collecter Look who I'm replying to.
 
Third party is unlikely due to financial pressures
 
@EtiennedeMartel He is dividing people with class warfare for one.. and the debt he's racked up is quite impressive.
 
@JimNorton Wasn't the debt mostly Bush's fault? And as for class warfare... well, that 1% isn't gonna tax itself.
 
Class warfare exists, so of course it's wise to bring light to it
And the debt is largely Bush's doing
 
3:26 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Uhm, no, under Obama the debt has grown by more than double of what it has in the past 50 years.
 
@Insilico When was the last time a third party was a major force? I cannot remember one in my lifetime, and the bull moose party is the most recent one I can remember being taught.
 
Class warfare? Is that the new COD?
 
What I want is for gov't to stop fucking around with education and the STEM fields.
 
The whole "Obama's a debt-racking hyper-spender" image is a total myth perpetuated by the right
 
@JimNorton Source?
 
a good deal of the spending was a one-time glut that ANY president would have had to invoke due to the bailout crisis, and much of that has been returned with interest
 
Class war-fare is the dumbest argument ever
 
@Collecter Perhaps not a major force, but did affect the election in some significant way. I don't remember exactly what that was.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Fault is a bit hard to blame, but since Obama took office national debt has risen tremendously -- much faster than ever previously.
 
@JimNorton Debt yes, but that's because revenues have been falling FAST, spending hasn't gone up
 
3:28 PM
The previous spike was world war II.
 
Spending is largely a function of legislature
Revenues are dependent on business variables
 
You can thank un-paid-for wars and tax cuts for that
 
Look, I'm not going to convince anybody here that my political views are correct, so I'm not going to try. I know my more "conservative" viewpoints put in the minority here.
 
@JerryCoffin what were they doing 1830-1860?
 
@Flexo Living within their means.
 
3:29 PM
@JimNorton There's a difference between a political opinion and a political opinion that isn't founded in anything factual
 
@JimNorton Conservative viewpoints are fine, I've never had a problem with those solutions, but arguing about facts is just stupid
 
@AgainstASicilian Well it depends who you talk to and where you get your "facts", doesn't it now?
 
@Collin The problem is when people imply that the same fact means something different depending on the framework
Case in point right there, LMFAO
 
Reality is biaised towards the left anyway.
 
Facts are facts regardless of the source. They are publicly verifiable.
 
3:30 PM
@JimNorton One should always consider the source, but facts are facts and do not change.
 
@JerryCoffin according to the state department it was expanding westward: future.state.gov/when/timeline/1830_timeline.html
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes You may want to take something for that cough. It sounds bad.
 
Cough drops, perhaps
 
@AgainstASicilian I agree, but see even knowing "what the facts are" is becoming difficult with all the lies from both sides.
 
3:32 PM
So stop getting your news from FOX
 
Fox is lulz-worthy.
 
@AgainstASicilian I get my news from many sources you punk!
 
Pursue the actual sources and piece together the news for yourself
 
@AgainstASicilian It's always funny to see people citing sources that cite sources that cite sources that cite sources that cite sources that cite sources.
 
Well, your "sources" must have a pretty significant, non-diversified bias since you made that absurd debt comment earlier
 
3:33 PM
FOX is no more biased than other news agencies.
 
oh lord
 
@Flexo Yes, but that doesn't really have much to do with government spending, borrowing, debt, etc.
 
I am not even touching this Fox argument.
 
Yeah, I'm not touching this one anymore
 
3:34 PM
@JerryCoffin sure it does if it was a period of massive economic growth too for example
 
@JimNorton Debt is not spending
 
Don't, Collin
 
@Flexo Annexing all those lands seems like a possible reason for that.
 
I'm not talking spending, I'm talking about debt.
 
@JimNorton Oh dear. Your credibility just flew out the window.
 
3:36 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Like I said to Collin: Don't
 
@EtiennedeMartel why is that?
 
@JimNorton See, that's interesting. That it increased is a fact. No need arguing about it. But then, here's the thing: those who support Obama will claim it's not his fault, while those who oppose him will claim the opposite. So, yeah. I guess nobody's going forward.
@JimNorton Because FOX News, is the most biaised news network I have ever seen.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Up'd.
 
@EtiennedeMartel It's not my fault.
 
@JimNorton Because you make extremely basic errors that reveal you likely have a strong confirmation bias in how you acquire/assess your "sources." It's like when someone claims "Well, evolution is just a theory!" it immediately reveals much about your position.
 
3:37 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I blame our situation on both Bush and Obama.
 
I had a teacher say to me once that the major impact of a president on the economy can be seen in the four years following his first term in office. I like that statement regardless if it is completely true.
 
False dialectic fallacy; "both sides" does not imply that both sides are equally valid
 
@Flexo If it was a period of massive growth, that's what matters, and the westward expansion was (at most) one of the reasons for that growth. I think attributing it specifically to westward expansion is oversimplifying though.
 
@Collecter that is largely due to the time lag of the business cycle, which the President actually has little control over
 
Build time machines => get control over it.
 
3:39 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Well, you should be watching more MSNBC then.
 
> The Great Meritocracy of C++, aka the Lounge, was a place renowned for its open mindedness and intolerance for assholes.
 
@EtiennedeMartel "biased", btw.
 
@AgainstASicilian I was also thinking that it had to do with waiting for some legislation from the previous president to expire, such as Bush's tax cuts.
 
Since when were we "the Lounge"?
 
@Insilico Hmm, paradox much.
 
3:40 PM
@Collecter In this case, yes, absolutely
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That was the second thing I was going to ask. :-P
 
Bush tax cuts were absurdly counterproductive
 
@Insilico Since, like, ever?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Woops, that's Frenglish for you.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, I suspected that :)
 
3:40 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I thought we was "Lounge<C++>".
Apparently "the Lounge" is a valid synonym now.
 
"The Lounge" for short.
 
The Internet Lounge.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Short by one character?
 
Short by one character is short.
:P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Anything to reduce typing effort, I guess. :-P
 
3:41 PM
Not mentioning C++ is good, because people won't think we're C++ room.
 
@CatPlusPlus People do that even when we talk about C++ here.
 
@Collecter There's no such simple formula. Ultimately, the congress (especially the house) is responsible for the budget. At most, the president can ask, suggest, influence, etc.
 
a C++ room*
 
@CatPlusPlus I mean we had people dropping by asking about C, Java, PHP, Brainfuck, etc. so it seems to me we have already achieved that goal.
 
3:42 PM
Anyway, trickle down doesn't work. It never did, and never will.
 
I don't understand half of what you guys are talking about. I'm glad I often choose not to vote.
 
Paying tax for cutting your bushes.
 
@JerryCoffin I know it is no where as simple as that. Never claimed it was.
 
On one hand, being attached to Stack Overflow gives us visibility and new people. On the other hand, being attached to Stack Overflow gives us visibility and new people. And meta.
 
Anyway, time for lunch. I wonder what the conversation shall be when I return. I leave in anticipation.
 
3:44 PM
@Collecter My money is on boobs. No, I'm not in a strip club.
 
Boobs! :3
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes On a strip club? What are you doing on the roof?
 
@CatPlusPlus Well, you got me, that's a good thing right? :-)
 
Dammit. Stupid English.
Y U HAVE THREE WORDS FOR THAT?
 
I will vote for boobs also.
 
3:46 PM
@Insilico stop assuming strip clubs have roofs. Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.
 
@JimNorton Boobs for President?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Boobs for everything!
 
( . )( . ) is a valid Brainfuck program.
 
Human breasts are cool.
 
In all seriousness though, I'd love to have a female US president before I die.
 
user784668
3:47 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Adessive – inessive distinction is not specific to English.
 
@RadekSlupik You're not a genius.
 
Cow breasts are cool.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes As I recall, in the last election some porn starlet get on the ballot, and apparently got some votes.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Actually they're at body temperature, no?
 
@JimNorton Oooh, you'd love to her.
 
3:47 PM
You're terrible.
 
@JerryCoffin "port starlet"?
 
edited
but not much better lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Corrected, thank you.
 
What the hell is a "porn starlet"?
 
3:48 PM
A small porn star?
 
@JimNorton Now that you mention it, I know at least a few good winemakers who'd probably make good presidents.
 
@Insilico there's no such thing as a starlet, so he must mean a porn dwarf star
 
@Insilico Porn actress. I guess I don't know how "big" she is/was though.
 
Some people are into dwarves.
 
3:49 PM
∀X, Some people are into X.
 
Planet X?
 
Ugh, X.
 
Where X = anything.
 
That must be one crazy person.
 
X is so 2011. Cool people are into Y now.
 
3:50 PM
X, as in X² and x³ and soon X:Rebirth?
 
@melak47 Or any word that begins with "re", really.
 
@melak47 No, it will be X! and X^X
 
@EtiennedeMartel I tihnk you're on to something :/
 
@EtiennedeMartel Planet X most likely doesn't exist.. :-)
 
3:51 PM
Planet X is probably not a planet.
Like Pluto.
 
Fuck Pluto.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Poor Pluto
 
Deserved it.
 
user784668
I love myself.
 
(The dwarf planet, not the dog)
 
user784668
3:52 PM
""" """
 
user784668
Take that, PyLint!
 
@EtiennedeMartel In that case, it's not how you use it, it's really how big it is.
3
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes That needs to be read out of context
 
Pluto is overrated, and not even that pretty.
 
There's a Mass Relay next to it, though.
 
3:53 PM
@Collin Everything in Lounge<C++> is out of context.
 
user784668
Damn.
 
user784668
C: 36,4:BasicExecutor.append: Empty docstring
 
@melak47 Not to mention, just plain cold.
 
@Insilico Especially context.
@JerryCoffin That bitch.
 
@melak47 How do you know that? We haven't seen it up close yet.
 
3:55 PM
@JerryCoffin Enceladus didn't try to pass itself off as a planet, and even though it has some scars, it looks pretty cool, and it has ice geysers!
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is it bad that I'm really thinking like that?
 
@melak47 So if I'm inferring correctly, you're of the opinion that Pluto "tried" to pass itself off as a planet?
 
@JerryCoffin It even succeeded :)
 
for a while.
although, pluto apparently looks like a low iteration perlin or simplex noise, so that is something.
 

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